aight real post now, wondering if the council saw my jellicent nom. if so, was wondering what the reason is for it not rising
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]
- Thread starter Finchinator
- Start date
- Status
Both of these nominations were seen, but received unanimous UR votes from the council.
I respect the initiative, but I think something was trying to be made of relatively nothing in these cases. Entei is nowhere near viable as it serves very little justifiably defensive purpose while not being able to break any well constructed team. It has a cool movepool, but it’s really far more suited for lower tiers and nobody has really seen it seriously in OU, let alone be effective.
Jellicent is a bit harder, but it’s so hard to fit when so many other bulky Waters have more practical characteristics and defensive profiles. I think Jellicent stand-alone has a case for C-, but then you actually go about trying to build normal teams and realize there is pretty much never a scenario where you can justify it over the alternative when building at a high level.
I am glad people are being ambitious and nominating less conventional Pokemon, which goes along with the theme of the C ranks, but we also have to be cognizant of some degree of quality control as the VR is used for thousands of people as a resource every day. And it would be unfair to tell those people — especially newer players — that Entei or even Jellicent can be justified and is worth using. That’s simply not the case at this moment in our (unanimous) eyes.
Some people wanted it to drop to B+ and others still are riding its usage wave into wanting it to rise to A. Neither side was really stronger than the other, but ultimately it’s plateauing at A-
Mandibuzz is awful at being a Defogger right now. Toxic LandoT, any version of Toxic or Taunt Heatran, Clefable, Leech Ferro, Toxic or IDef Skarm, Toxic Hippo, TWave Rock Blast Tar, and so many others set up hazards on it. At this point it’s more viable as a defensive presence than anything else and given it’s over reliance on boots and it’s lack of usage, it’s harder to justify than ever
Nominations are open and if you have questions on the prior shifts hit up the SQSA or PM me, thanks
I don't like making this nom because I don't like Lando. It's ugly and stupid.
Lando to S+
85% usage in SPL. No other ground comes close. Guess that's what happens when Gliscor doesn't exist and the next best one doesn't have U-Turn and is weak to Fairy. Everyone knows what Lando does, so I don't think I need to explain it. But I will explain why I think it should be S+
First off, it's usage. 85% usage is insane. Like ORAS ubers Groudon insane. I don't want to say Lando is necessary on every team, but at the same time, it kinda is? Why wouldn't you use a Ground immune Electric immune Intimidate mon that can pivot with u turn and set up rocks/defog hazards and put opposing landos on timers with toxic or Knock Off? No team is hurt by its presence. Basically every team is helped by it. You can put Lando on basically any team and it'll do its job with no drawbacks. I can't think of a single drawback of using Lando. Like maybe it prevents you from using garchomp on the same team due to the ice weakness and weaviles presence, but like, even that's not the worst thing in the world.
S+ is basically reserved for the King of a tier, a mon that is basically necessary on every team and has no drawbacks to using it. Lando is OUs glue. And I'm pretty confident it reaches that threshold. No other mons come close to its usage. Weavile is pretty high at almost 50%, but that's still 35% Less than Lando. Think about that. 50% usage for a mon is insane. 85% is beyond that. It's pretty damn clear Lando is the best mon in the tier, and it's not very close (from a role standpoint, heatran and weavile are stupid good too in their roles)
The main reason I bring this up is it allows Weavile and Heatran to both be full S rank. They're #2 and #3 in the meta right now, and having ferro alongside them feels weird. Ferro fits S-, but the other two don't. I asked why heatran wasn't S rank and the answer was basically "It's not lando". So why not just bite the bullet, put Lando in S+, then put weavile and heatran in S. Ferro stays in S-. This way, anyone who views the VR sees what the top 4 mons are and how they fit in the meta. Maybe this lets pult back into S-, maybe not. Not nominating it anywhere, but it's right on that threshold where there's arguments for both S- and A+
I get that people don't like seeing S+ on VRs, but I've played all of XY, most of ORAS, and about 11 months of SS, alongside some DPP and SM. I don't think I've seen this level of centralization of a single mon in any of those tiers. They all have their monsters like excadrill/clef in oras, pex/mag in sm, or rachi/ttar in dpp, but even those don't reach the levels of Lando in ss.
I don't think any mons are on the level of Lando in the meta. You're even seeing stuff like air balloon heatran and Aqua Tail garchomp to try and take advantage of landos ubiquity in the tier and even that's not stopping it. Weavile had a fluke shitty week 1 and then went right back to tearing teams apart, but even so Lando is more used than ever. I don't really think there's anything that could happen to change this. If gliscor got freed maybe, but gamefreak doesn't like me.
Tl;dr:
Lando > S+
Heatran > S
Weavile > S
Lando to S+
85% usage in SPL. No other ground comes close. Guess that's what happens when Gliscor doesn't exist and the next best one doesn't have U-Turn and is weak to Fairy. Everyone knows what Lando does, so I don't think I need to explain it. But I will explain why I think it should be S+
First off, it's usage. 85% usage is insane. Like ORAS ubers Groudon insane. I don't want to say Lando is necessary on every team, but at the same time, it kinda is? Why wouldn't you use a Ground immune Electric immune Intimidate mon that can pivot with u turn and set up rocks/defog hazards and put opposing landos on timers with toxic or Knock Off? No team is hurt by its presence. Basically every team is helped by it. You can put Lando on basically any team and it'll do its job with no drawbacks. I can't think of a single drawback of using Lando. Like maybe it prevents you from using garchomp on the same team due to the ice weakness and weaviles presence, but like, even that's not the worst thing in the world.
S+ is basically reserved for the King of a tier, a mon that is basically necessary on every team and has no drawbacks to using it. Lando is OUs glue. And I'm pretty confident it reaches that threshold. No other mons come close to its usage. Weavile is pretty high at almost 50%, but that's still 35% Less than Lando. Think about that. 50% usage for a mon is insane. 85% is beyond that. It's pretty damn clear Lando is the best mon in the tier, and it's not very close (from a role standpoint, heatran and weavile are stupid good too in their roles)
The main reason I bring this up is it allows Weavile and Heatran to both be full S rank. They're #2 and #3 in the meta right now, and having ferro alongside them feels weird. Ferro fits S-, but the other two don't. I asked why heatran wasn't S rank and the answer was basically "It's not lando". So why not just bite the bullet, put Lando in S+, then put weavile and heatran in S. Ferro stays in S-. This way, anyone who views the VR sees what the top 4 mons are and how they fit in the meta. Maybe this lets pult back into S-, maybe not. Not nominating it anywhere, but it's right on that threshold where there's arguments for both S- and A+
I get that people don't like seeing S+ on VRs, but I've played all of XY, most of ORAS, and about 11 months of SS, alongside some DPP and SM. I don't think I've seen this level of centralization of a single mon in any of those tiers. They all have their monsters like excadrill/clef in oras, pex/mag in sm, or rachi/ttar in dpp, but even those don't reach the levels of Lando in ss.
I don't think any mons are on the level of Lando in the meta. You're even seeing stuff like air balloon heatran and Aqua Tail garchomp to try and take advantage of landos ubiquity in the tier and even that's not stopping it. Weavile had a fluke shitty week 1 and then went right back to tearing teams apart, but even so Lando is more used than ever. I don't really think there's anything that could happen to change this. If gliscor got freed maybe, but gamefreak doesn't like me.
Tl;dr:
Lando > S+
Heatran > S
Weavile > S
Thunder Pwoell
Banned deucer.
who said mandibuzz is an awful defogger? who says it needs boots?
I’m in no way being facetious I’m just genuinely asking. This seems like opinions being flagrantly waived around as concrete facts. they are not. even people who use my teams admit that mandibuzz is a goat wall and easily keeps rocks off their side of the field. Is this just a style of play bias or??? Because something isnt adding up here
Last edited:
As finch said, mandibuzz is a bad defogger because it loses to basically every rocks setter. It does not "easily keep rocks off the field" because if the rocker just spams clicking stealth rocks, there's nothing it can do. It needs boots because if it's losing 25% of its health every time it switches in to defog, it's never going to keep rocks off.
Thunder Pwoell
Banned deucer.
This isn’t true. You can toxic or kill it or taunt it. Pretty easy . I can show a myriad of replays
My problem with this is that using Toxic means you are giving up either U-turn or your only offensive move (Knock or Foul Play) Which severely hurts Mandi in the long run. While I dont think Mandi is unviable, it's definitely not a great option either.
Mandibuzz sees near no usage from anyone who isn’t Omari P and it was voted on unanimously to drop and some even wanted it to double drop. Idk what else to say beyond I’m glad it works for you, but it does not seem to be for anyone else.
Remember that you are always welcome to re-nom it for a higher VR placement! Official drops are never final as there is always going to be room for conditions in the metagame to change. That's what this thread is designed to explore and we fully encourage you to present your arguments, so long as they are conducive to discussion.
Since you asked for the council's take as a whole, I personally voted for it to stay in A-, where it ultimately ended up staying for this slate. It is a superb breaker and takes great advantage of Landorus-T's omnipresence, but its pitiful staying power and proneness to being knocked out before it can pierce the holes it aims to make due to recoil and other forms of residual damage can make it situationally inconsistent at accomplishing its goal, especially with the rising use of base Zapdos to punish its wallbreaking attempts. It also has a bit of a harder time breaking teams using Garchomp as their Ground-type, especially since Garchomp packs Rough Skin and is usually paired with Ferrothorn which compounds chip damage further. This isn't to say Galarian Zapdos is bad--not at all, in fact--but it isn't consistent enough to be A-level, in my opinion, especially when it has to compete for a slot with its Kantoian counterpart, and when the higher use of its Kantoian counterpart in the first place stiffles it from making the game-defining progress it could make during SCL.
prob due to its horrible longetivity and being ruined by status
Plus Lando exists as intimidate pivot
agslash23
Banned deucer.
Haxorus is still great on Screens Offense. It destroys bulkier teams as it has an unresisted coverage of Scale Shot, Close Combat, Poison Jab, insane attack stat, Swords Dance, Mold Breaker (invalidates abilities like Unaware that annoy Hyper Offense)
Yeah, and it has a mono-weakness to Ice, meaning it can tank Ice Shard even with the def drop from Scale Shot without that being a OHKO; it can hold a Lum berry instead of a Yache one, for example, and contrary to Garchomp it can actually get past Corviknight with a +2 Close Combat and various Fairies with a +2 Poison Jab. Reasons to use it over Garchomp.
Goat mon. Wrecks stall which is not needed the most rn but still a valid niche imo.
Bisharp > A-
A towering attack stat, good offensive typing, defiant, and STAB knock off are just a few things that make Bisharp a great Pokémon in OU. Very few Pokémon can switch into, let alone wall +2 Bisharp. Life orb is preferred if you’re willing to exchange the 1.3x power boost for recoil, while black glasses can be utilized for less residual damage.
Bisharp @ Life Orb/Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
This is Bisharp’s standard set. Swords dance boosts Bisharp’s already excellent attack stat to dangerous levels. Knock off cripples Pokémon prone to item removal, like Tornadus-T, Volcarona, and Toxapex. Sucker punch is a deadly weapon against faster threats like Dragapult and Barraskewda; the former is outright OHKO’d, while the latter can be KO’d with prior chip damage. Iron head lets Bisharp deal with fairy types and other Pokémon that resist Dark, such as Clefable, Tapu Koko, and Tapu Fini.
After a swords dance boost, even the bulkiest of Pokémon fail to reliably wall Bisharp, who 2HKOs, if not OHKOs almost all Pokémon in OU. Defensive pivots like Landorus-T, Toxapex, and the ever so prevalent Slowbro all fail to function properly in its presence; the former’s ability in intimidate is nullified by defiant sharply raising Bisharp’s attack after lowering it.
All that said, Bisharp does have its weaknesses. Its lackluster defenses and poor speed tier makes it prone to being revenge killed by faster threats, so Bisharp works well with dual screens/aurora veil and sticky web support to alleviate these problems. Bisharp is also weak to common offensive types in the tier (4x fighting, 2x fire, and 2x ground,) so teammates such as defensive Landorus-T and Zapdos are greatly appreciated, not to mention that both are excellent pivots. All in all, I believe Bisharp deserves a solid spot in A-, alongside Blacephalon, Dragonite, Ninetales-Alola, etc.
A towering attack stat, good offensive typing, defiant, and STAB knock off are just a few things that make Bisharp a great Pokémon in OU. Very few Pokémon can switch into, let alone wall +2 Bisharp. Life orb is preferred if you’re willing to exchange the 1.3x power boost for recoil, while black glasses can be utilized for less residual damage.
Bisharp @ Life Orb/Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
This is Bisharp’s standard set. Swords dance boosts Bisharp’s already excellent attack stat to dangerous levels. Knock off cripples Pokémon prone to item removal, like Tornadus-T, Volcarona, and Toxapex. Sucker punch is a deadly weapon against faster threats like Dragapult and Barraskewda; the former is outright OHKO’d, while the latter can be KO’d with prior chip damage. Iron head lets Bisharp deal with fairy types and other Pokémon that resist Dark, such as Clefable, Tapu Koko, and Tapu Fini.
After a swords dance boost, even the bulkiest of Pokémon fail to reliably wall Bisharp, who 2HKOs, if not OHKOs almost all Pokémon in OU. Defensive pivots like Landorus-T, Toxapex, and the ever so prevalent Slowbro all fail to function properly in its presence; the former’s ability in intimidate is nullified by defiant sharply raising Bisharp’s attack after lowering it.
All that said, Bisharp does have its weaknesses. Its lackluster defenses and poor speed tier makes it prone to being revenge killed by faster threats, so Bisharp works well with dual screens/aurora veil and sticky web support to alleviate these problems. Bisharp is also weak to common offensive types in the tier (4x fighting, 2x fire, and 2x ground,) so teammates such as defensive Landorus-T and Zapdos are greatly appreciated, not to mention that both are excellent pivots. All in all, I believe Bisharp deserves a solid spot in A-, alongside Blacephalon, Dragonite, Ninetales-Alola, etc.
Last edited:
This is a well-written discussion of Bisharp's strengths and weaknesses. However, I think most of the people in this thread are already familiar with what Bisharp does. Try explaining what has changed in the metagame for Bisharp to warrant moving up a subrank. For instance:
Are certain threats on the rise that Bisharp checks well? Conversely, are Bisharp's checks becoming less common?
Is there a new rising set that improves Bisharp's versatility against the metagame and overcomes some of its notable flaws?
What partners of Bisharp also work well in the current metagame?
What other Pokemon compete with Bisharp for a teamslot? Why should Bisharp be used instead of these?
I think Bisharp is a mixed bag rn. It loves more teams going with Clef>Fini and Lando-T's absurd usage triggering Defiant, fits well on the currently popular Ferrothorn hazard stack to abuse Defiant, and people are experimenting with sets like Rock Polish and Banded to decent success. However, its main defensive niche of helping keep Dragapult in check is becoming less noticeable with Dragapult's fall from the apex of the metagame and the lean of most bulky mons to Specially Defensive in order to sponge Shadow Balls. In addition, because Weavile is everywhere, many teams that prep for Weavile with techs like Body Press Colbur Slowbro thereby automatically prep for Bisharp too. Lando-T's massive usage is also a problem for it, as compared to its competition as a Defiant user in Galaran Zapdos, Bisharp's EQ weakness prevents it from abusing a healthy Lando-T. B+ and A- are both about right for it I think.
Oh yeah… I forgot about Colbur Berry + Body Press Slowbro. Galarian Zapdos also abuses defiant pretty well with Landorus-T on the rise.
I love Bisharp, but it's one of those mons that suffer from extremely powerful competition:
Dark typing and STAB Knock Off?
a lot faster, Ice STAB and priority. Weavile is the second most used Pokémon in the tier.Steel typing?
Defensively useless due to its poor special bulk, only ok physical bulk, no recovery and a big Fairy neutrality.
, 
and 
are everywhere.Defiant?
, a lot better against tier king 
As it happens, Bisharp finds a place on teams where it can compress its attributes, Defiant and Dark-Steel typing, i.e. Screens HO where Defog and Dragapult counterplay is very much needed, as well as its STAB Iron Head being able to easily cut through Unaware Clefable, a big threat to the archetype. As such, Bisharp's viability is tied to that of Screens HO as a whole, where it still faces fierce competition from Galarian Moltres, due to its special bulk, adaptability with double boosting moves and added defensive utility against offensive Grass types. However, it has better matchup than Moltres-G against Weavile and Tapu Lele, which give it a slight edge over the bird in this scenario.
I'd add that Bisharp has a bit more room for experimentations when it comes to item than its competition, thus allowing for some interesting matchup shifts. It can make use of type resist berries, counter-luring Colbur Slowbro with Chople, baiting Volcarona, Volcanion and Heatran with Occa or - the best one imho - bait Garchomp and Landorus-T with Shuca. It can also go for power boosting items without paying egregious taxes to Stealth Rock.
tl;dr imho Bisharp is fine in its current VR placement. Its main competition is rising in usage, but its very specific defensive utility for its best archetype is still plenty valuable.
Rises
B+ > A-
The fact that there are still so few checks to a healthy Goltres behind screens even with a surge of electrics, Nihilego and the omnipresent Weavile makes me believe it deserves a rise. It is a highly valuable aspect on HO while doubling as a Pult and Rilla check. Clef and Fini only 2-shot it, (CM Clef 2-shots in screens). Even its checks can fail to rkill it because of screens or flinch procs.
B > B+
It lacks the same role compression like other grounds or bulky waters, but it makes up for it by checking a wide array of treats exceptionally well. Just to list some
-Blace
-Scarf Fini
-Barb + CM Clef (if it has Clear Smog)
-Tran
-Zapdos
-Zeraora
-Victini
-Volcanion
-non-Grass Knot Nihilego
-Washtom
-non-Freeze Dry Arctozolt
The choice of Sticky Hold gives it the role of Knock Off/Trick absorber while also blocking Volt Switch. With Storm Drain it also checks most rain threats. Most grasses in the tier don’t like switching into Scald or Toxic and it pairs nicely with steels or physical walls like Buzzwole. Definitely think it deserves a rise with the sheer amount of threats it checks.
B > B+
It doesn’t enjoy Weavile and Fini being used more than ever, but it appreciates the rise of Blace, Volc, and Washtom. It faces less competition ever since Kyurem was yeeted out of the tier. It has a good speed tier for a breaker, outpacing Lele and barely outspeeding Urshifu by one point. Blissey being less common for reasons I’ll explain later also boost Hydreigon’s wallbreaking capabilities. It also pairs nicely with one of the best mons in the tier rn, Ferro who can check Fini, setup spikes, and appreciates Hydrei’s ability to check Tran. Speaking of spikes, it also happens to be immune to them, which is great in a meta filled with spike stacking BO teams.
B > B+
It is a shadow of its former glory but I feel like players are underrating how stupid Tran and Melmetal are in Grassy Terrain. Its checks in the tier that aren’t trapped by Zone or Regen grasses hate getting boots or lefties Knock’d Off. Weavile is more common but Adamant Ice Shard is only dealing 50% to it while Grassy Glide smacks it right back. Considering most of S and A tier are mons that either Rilla checks, supports, or are prone to being Knock’d shows how even at his worst, Rilla is still dumb.
C+ > B-
This mon paired with Gapdos and Weavile is utterly stupid. Hippowdon is rare so most of the ground types in the tier are getting worn down by chip and status. Even when they are still present, he can still provide the team with hazard removal. With the increased amount of mons that can pressure, lure, or dent grounds in the tier, especially Weavile, Gapdos, and the more recent Air Balloon Eruption Tran, it is starting to grow as a legitimate threat. Something I would’ve never saw it as a year ago. (Yes Crown Tundra is that old)
C > C+
A physical wallbreaker that can mow past Colbur Berry Slowbro and check Weavile? Yes please. It loves the influx of Future Sight and pivoting moves in Crown Tundra. It faces competition with RS and Gapdos, but what gives it a niche is the fact it has no counters outside of Buzzwole who gets Future Sighted. Even if it guesses wrong, its still crippling them and forcing progress. Not only that, but it is absorbing status and Knock once it gets burnt. It gets chipped quickly and does not have the same defensive utility as the aforementioned fighting types, but when it gets in, its taking someone’s soul with it.
Drop
B+ > B
Blissey is unfortunately not in a great spot rn. Blissey is paired with problems that have only become more apparent recently. Its too one-dimensional and predictable. It doesn’t even do great checking a majority of special attackers or breakers. All of the ones from S to B+ tier except Volcanion and Goltres either have U-Turn, Trick, Knock Off, or outright beat it (CM Clef, Lele, CM Fini, Tran, Nihilego). Made worse by the fact that once its boots are knock’d off, it is getting crippled heavily by spikes/rocks. It also doesn’t help that a majority of defensive threats have a way of crippling Blissey. Teleport is still nice tho.
B > B-
Poor Drill. In the spawn of a year or two, it went from a top 3/5 mon to an albeit great mon in UU. Sand Rush Drill is never breaking past Corv, Washtom, Buzzwole, or Slowbro without luck. Its getting clapped by Urshifu’s Aqua Jet even when it manages to get a kill, and sand is not in the best spot rn. Its defensive sets are outclassed and not good. Checking Koko is nice, but Lando can do the same thing. Not only that, but its a ground type that loses to Zeraora, and can’t switch into Tran or Victini. Its not bulky enough to be a good bulky ground or steel. Anything Drill can do, other grounds can do just as well. Its not complete dogshit because spin is always nice to have in a meta filled with spike stacking.
C > C-
Even with a slight rise of Shed stall it received when Kyurem was still in the tier, Stall is still not in a great spot and Shed’s placement does not reflect that imo. Shed has nice qualities like walling Lele, FS, Demon Mew, and Urshifu, but I feel like Shed has too much it needs to worry about. It has to choose between Safety Googles and Boots. If it chooses Boots it now becomes deadweight against Veil, Hail, or Sand teams. If it chooses Safety Googles, you now need to have two slots for hazard removal or slot in two niche magic bounce users that lose to Air Balloon Tran. If you don’t want to go that route, your hazard removal will get their boots Knock’d off, get poisoned, can’t beat Ferro, or trapped by Zone. Or worst case scenario, you invite in Gadpos or Bisharp. Even if you manage to get past all that, your team is still getting clapped by those Zone + Future Sight + Weavile bo teams all the kids are running these days.
C- > UR
Need a bulky flying type with Nasty Plot and decent bulk? Just use Goltres. It is heavily reliant on RNG to break past the steel types in the tier. Even if it manages to threaten with NP, it is never getting past Koko, Nihilego, Zera, or offensive Zapdos. Goltres has Agility, a higher speed tier, and better bulk. It is also a flunky Kart check because of its Fairy typing. It has Heal Bell to separate from Goltres but some Goltres have been utilizing Rest which adds salt in the wound. I do not feel there is a reason to keep Toge in the vr at this point.
The fact that there are still so few checks to a healthy Goltres behind screens even with a surge of electrics, Nihilego and the omnipresent Weavile makes me believe it deserves a rise. It is a highly valuable aspect on HO while doubling as a Pult and Rilla check. Clef and Fini only 2-shot it, (CM Clef 2-shots in screens). Even its checks can fail to rkill it because of screens or flinch procs.
It lacks the same role compression like other grounds or bulky waters, but it makes up for it by checking a wide array of treats exceptionally well. Just to list some
-Blace
-Scarf Fini
-Barb + CM Clef (if it has Clear Smog)
-Tran
-Zapdos
-Zeraora
-Victini
-Volcanion
-non-Grass Knot Nihilego
-Washtom
-non-Freeze Dry Arctozolt
The choice of Sticky Hold gives it the role of Knock Off/Trick absorber while also blocking Volt Switch. With Storm Drain it also checks most rain threats. Most grasses in the tier don’t like switching into Scald or Toxic and it pairs nicely with steels or physical walls like Buzzwole. Definitely think it deserves a rise with the sheer amount of threats it checks.
It doesn’t enjoy Weavile and Fini being used more than ever, but it appreciates the rise of Blace, Volc, and Washtom. It faces less competition ever since Kyurem was yeeted out of the tier. It has a good speed tier for a breaker, outpacing Lele and barely outspeeding Urshifu by one point. Blissey being less common for reasons I’ll explain later also boost Hydreigon’s wallbreaking capabilities. It also pairs nicely with one of the best mons in the tier rn, Ferro who can check Fini, setup spikes, and appreciates Hydrei’s ability to check Tran. Speaking of spikes, it also happens to be immune to them, which is great in a meta filled with spike stacking BO teams.
It is a shadow of its former glory but I feel like players are underrating how stupid Tran and Melmetal are in Grassy Terrain. Its checks in the tier that aren’t trapped by Zone or Regen grasses hate getting boots or lefties Knock’d Off. Weavile is more common but Adamant Ice Shard is only dealing 50% to it while Grassy Glide smacks it right back. Considering most of S and A tier are mons that either Rilla checks, supports, or are prone to being Knock’d shows how even at his worst, Rilla is still dumb.
This mon paired with Gapdos and Weavile is utterly stupid. Hippowdon is rare so most of the ground types in the tier are getting worn down by chip and status. Even when they are still present, he can still provide the team with hazard removal. With the increased amount of mons that can pressure, lure, or dent grounds in the tier, especially Weavile, Gapdos, and the more recent Air Balloon Eruption Tran, it is starting to grow as a legitimate threat. Something I would’ve never saw it as a year ago. (Yes Crown Tundra is that old)
A physical wallbreaker that can mow past Colbur Berry Slowbro and check Weavile? Yes please. It loves the influx of Future Sight and pivoting moves in Crown Tundra. It faces competition with RS and Gapdos, but what gives it a niche is the fact it has no counters outside of Buzzwole who gets Future Sighted. Even if it guesses wrong, its still crippling them and forcing progress. Not only that, but it is absorbing status and Knock once it gets burnt. It gets chipped quickly and does not have the same defensive utility as the aforementioned fighting types, but when it gets in, its taking someone’s soul with it.
Drop
Blissey is unfortunately not in a great spot rn. Blissey is paired with problems that have only become more apparent recently. Its too one-dimensional and predictable. It doesn’t even do great checking a majority of special attackers or breakers. All of the ones from S to B+ tier except Volcanion and Goltres either have U-Turn, Trick, Knock Off, or outright beat it (CM Clef, Lele, CM Fini, Tran, Nihilego). Made worse by the fact that once its boots are knock’d off, it is getting crippled heavily by spikes/rocks. It also doesn’t help that a majority of defensive threats have a way of crippling Blissey. Teleport is still nice tho.
Poor Drill. In the spawn of a year or two, it went from a top 3/5 mon to an albeit great mon in UU. Sand Rush Drill is never breaking past Corv, Washtom, Buzzwole, or Slowbro without luck. Its getting clapped by Urshifu’s Aqua Jet even when it manages to get a kill, and sand is not in the best spot rn. Its defensive sets are outclassed and not good. Checking Koko is nice, but Lando can do the same thing. Not only that, but its a ground type that loses to Zeraora, and can’t switch into Tran or Victini. Its not bulky enough to be a good bulky ground or steel. Anything Drill can do, other grounds can do just as well. Its not complete dogshit because spin is always nice to have in a meta filled with spike stacking.
Even with a slight rise of Shed stall it received when Kyurem was still in the tier, Stall is still not in a great spot and Shed’s placement does not reflect that imo. Shed has nice qualities like walling Lele, FS, Demon Mew, and Urshifu, but I feel like Shed has too much it needs to worry about. It has to choose between Safety Googles and Boots. If it chooses Boots it now becomes deadweight against Veil, Hail, or Sand teams. If it chooses Safety Googles, you now need to have two slots for hazard removal or slot in two niche magic bounce users that lose to Air Balloon Tran. If you don’t want to go that route, your hazard removal will get their boots Knock’d off, get poisoned, can’t beat Ferro, or trapped by Zone. Or worst case scenario, you invite in Gadpos or Bisharp. Even if you manage to get past all that, your team is still getting clapped by those Zone + Future Sight + Weavile bo teams all the kids are running these days.
Need a bulky flying type with Nasty Plot and decent bulk? Just use Goltres. It is heavily reliant on RNG to break past the steel types in the tier. Even if it manages to threaten with NP, it is never getting past Koko, Nihilego, Zera, or offensive Zapdos. Goltres has Agility, a higher speed tier, and better bulk. It is also a flunky Kart check because of its Fairy typing. It has Heal Bell to separate from Goltres but some Goltres have been utilizing Rest which adds salt in the wound. I do not feel there is a reason to keep Toge in the vr at this point.
Last edited:
- Status