Metagame [SPOILERS] ULTRA SM - Speculation & Discussion

[Gary]

KARTANA DOES NOT GET SUPERPOWER.

 

[Colonel M]

Fuck Gary I was misled about Superpower Kart.

Okay but seriously Knock Off Kartana is a nice addition for Choice sets and gives it a better Dark-type attack to use than Night Slash on those sets. Due to Darkinium Z Night Slash does boast a better base power (20 BP difference), so Swords Dance may still use Night Slash when using Darkinium.

 

[david0895]

- Naganadel can hit pratically all the tier with its STABs + Fire Blast and even if there are a few checks don't forget that it can run a Specs/Scarf set with U-turn.

- Blacephalon is a little bit stronger and a little faster Chandelure that has access to Psychic moves to handle Poison types:

252 SpA Choice Specs It Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 184-218 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 226-268 (62.2 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I'm pretty sure that is OU worthy because it can't be spammed due to to the rocks weakness

- Zeraora seems a fun mixed attacker since it can find a coverage in Fire Punch, Close Combat, Grass Knot, Knock Off and HP Ice

- Stakataka will probably be a low ladder meme or at least a niche on trick room teams

- Ribombee and Araquanid can carve a niche as a fast and bulky web setters but probably will not be enough to be OU thanks to all these Defog users

Also I want to ask you if Magearna and Bulu can use a set with Z-Heal Bell and SubSeed Synthesis?

 

[Lolparty]

Av tar is looking to be the hard body boy to watch out for in usum. 4x weak to fighting? Lol

Just a few stupid calcs for your time...

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 212-252 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 284-336 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 194-230 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 116-140 (28.7 - 34.7%) -- 8.3% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 268-316 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[wisdom dog]

I dont think Z-knock off is a great set but i’d hella use knock off + leaf blade + fightZ sacred sword. Also gliscor genuinely has me excited to build stall, I dont think its necessarily a better defogger than skarmory but i think it has a time and place.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

Modest Naganadel @ Life orb, 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with HP Ice, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Sludge Bomb would be nice.

 

[TURBODERP]

Call me crazy, but I feel Buzzwole might get ranked again, at like C/C- or something. Or see very niche usage.

Bulkier Buzzwole sets partner well with AV Tyranitar, who takes on the special attackers Buzzwole hates, and Buzzwole also does good eating up Kartana (who can only bust through with Steelium Z). Drain Punch is great because any sort of recovery for Buzzwole is fantastic (even though you have Roost), and Buzzwole already hits hard enough with no investment. You've got coverage with Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/EQ, and utility options in Toxic and Lunge. Buzzwole also partners pretty well with Naganadel (as do a lot of things) because it can handle Tyranitar and Weavile and Mamoswine (all able to check/RK the thing) easily.

 

[HC]

T

He only mon is my boi slurpuff, clean sweeper with webs belly drum play rough and drain punch. Will be cool to see how well it does in ou as a webber, cuz i hope im not the only person gonna use cotton candy webs. Also nothing like doublade holding it back up here, nothing particularly bulky resists these moves, so everything should get ohkoed and with unburden webs, literally nothing will outspeed bar lucha unburden.

Like, I don't know if you've heard of this little mon called Toxapex. It's seen a little bit of usage in the tier, kinda resists both attacks, kinda takes <50% from +6 Play Rough, kinda has Haze... Webs could be cool on it but think Ribombee's gonna be the better setter

 

[M BLADE]

So Kommo-o is getting a pretty stupid Z-Move and Close Combat for DD sets to add unpredictability (+1 Z-Close Combat hurts a lot)... And it's still really weak and niche lol

Sticky Web is also useable by Slurpuff now mind you. Webs + Endeavor with Unburden turns it into a situacional suicide lead.

 

[Colonel M]

This is relevant for Naganadel:

Something to note - Timid raises Naganadel's Speed with Beast Boost if both SpA and Speed are maxed. 172 Speed EVs with a Timid nature hits 353 - which ties with its SpA with max EVs (thus Beast Boost raises SpA). 353 Speed ties with Thundurus-I. Modest with max Speed EVs hits 341.

Just figured this information would be useful for those wondering what Beast Boost would raise or what it could potentially raise.

I mean ultimately this information is about as useful as the UB Assembly IV scenario but figured to post it here for those wondering at home if a Special Attack boost was possible without a Modest nature.

 

[Dakress]

I don't really care about Kommo-o's new Z-Move. I'm just happy it got both Iron Head and Drain Punch. With both moves it can finally pull off a competent Sub-Belly Drum+ Salac Berry set in OU without having to worry about getting revenge killed due to its low HP or because the opponent threw a Ferrothorn at you.

It remains to be seen if said set will be as viable as I'm hoping, though.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Is there a certain reason why everyone is talking about AV Tyranitar? I remember it being talked about in gen6 and being called a low ladder meme, what changes in USUM make it more viable?

 

[Albacore]

Interestingly, 172 Speed Naganadel barely outspeeds Latios, which could be relevant for a Scarf set, what with Latios being a pretty common Scarfer too. I can't think of any scarfers that rest bewteen Latios and Greninja speed-wise, so this seems like a pretty legit option if that's the set you want to run. Of course, there is no excuse for messing around with the EVs for any other set, especially since you'd much rather have a Speed boost then

 

[Leo]

Is there a certain reason why everyone is talking about AV Tyranitar? I remember it being talked about in gen6 and being called a low ladder meme, what changes in USUM make it more viable?

Its getting some hype because its sorta antimeta with volcarona getting better and the clown UB not being able to touch it. I think it can even eat a +2 draco from naganadel (if it actually gets that) and ko back

 

[Nuked]

Naganadel is going to be good but I'm not sure about broken. It looks pretty weak to priority and Choice Scarf users because of its bad defenses and whatnot. Also seems prediction reliant since stuff like Celesteela just eats its STABs without issues, but it should watch out for the NP + Heat Wave combo.

Zersora is going to have a niche over Koko because of its Speed and movepool, but I can't see it higher than B.

 

[Giratina93]

Its getting some hype because its sorta antimeta with volcarona getting better and the clown UB not being able to touch it. I think it can even eat a +2 draco from naganadel (if it actually gets that) and ko back

+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(with Naga's special attack and Adaptability removed)

It CAN, but it needs to be very healthy. Just a little prior damage leads to an easy kill... T-tar is a decent check, but not the answer I'd hope for against this thing.

EDIT: Forgot to throw Sand in there. Whoops.

+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah, Naga gets sorta stopped hard by Ass vest T-tar. I definitely see it gaining some traction this gen.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Idt people are realising that it's going to be pretty hard for Neganadel to get a np boost at all with that kind of bulk. Dragon/Poison is ok defensively but that bulk is so bad it doesn't even matter. It lacks initial power and it can easily be revenge killed unless it gets the beast boost - which considering the wanting initial power and bulk isn't easy to get off without the unlikely np boost. It's going to be p decent but people are overhyping it way too much. And people are saying it could get banned lol. I think specs or scarf might be better on it tbh, np is just too hard to get off.

Burst can run an actually good scarf set. The dual STABs are great, Smack down actually does enough to r kill volcarona with some chip and it gets trick too. I like the idea of it.

Assembly is ass.

 

[Leo]

+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(with Naga's special attack and Adaptability removed)

It CAN, but it needs to be very healthy. Just a little prior damage leads to an easy kill... T-tar is a decent check, but not the answer I'd hope for against this thing.

That's a pretty solid check if you ask me. Your opponent needs either multiple layers of hazards you shouldn't let go up or a crit to kill Tyranitar since you're not letting your check take damage so easily lol. If they chip you on the switch you can Pursuit to pretty much cripple it for the rest of the game. Unless you try to use your Tyranitar to switch into other threat you should be fine.

edit: Actually there's no Sand in your calc lol it takes way less than that

 

[Yasuo]

Any thoughts about Defog Klefki? It completely disappeared in S/M, could Defog be enough to regain a small niche in US/UM? Being able to get hazard removal in Defog, entry hazards in spikes and some other support options in T-Wave and Toxic in one team slot doesn't look that bad on paper.

 

[Giratina93]

Some further bad news for Blacephalon: Due to the HP loss from using Mind Blown being rounded UP, it can only get off a max of two of those attacks before dying, and it dies before the enemy does regardless in case of a last mon standing scenario. Combine this with SR and being Pursuit weak and... I just cannot see this thing doing well. It can go Fire Blast, but.... that's a loss in firepower.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Some further bad news for Blacephalon: Due to the HP loss from using Mind Blown being rounded UP, it can only get off a max of two of those attacks before dying, and it dies before the enemy does regardless in case of a last mon standing scenario. Combine this with SR and being Pursuit weak and... I just cannot see this thing doing well. It can go Fire Blast, but.... that's a loss in firepower.

You could always run Firium Z, as that gives you a 200 BP Inferno Overdrive. Or run both Fire Blast and Mind Blown - one for power, one for consistency. It's not like it's bursting with coverage options anyway, and its STABs have pretty good neutral coverage. I think only Tyranitar, Greninja and Mega Houndoom resist both.

While I can't see it being a top tier threat, I think it will be one of those POkemon that need a fair bit of support, but can be amazing when it all comes together.

 

[Indigo Plateau]

Not sure how I missed this, I briefly read the past points so a lot of this might just be re-iteration but thought I might throw my thoughts here as well.

Like many others before me have pointed out, I definitely think we'll be seeing Gliscor much more due to Defog. It has good typing, Poison Heal is a godsend, still has good utility in Knock Off / Taunt / Toxic / Roost, hell I can even see a cash set like Defog / SD / EQ / Knock Off or Facade being run if you desperately need a more aggressive Defogger for whatever reason lol. What I'm trying to get at is this thing's gonna be versatile af and I'm actually pretty excited for it. I think Defog Lando-T is an unmon tbh, would much rather keep using it as my rocker.

THIS SHIT gets Defog somehow and I really hope it doesn't see any usage because it's annoying as hell. It might be a bit redundant running this with hazards, but maybe a Defog + status + screens set or something could be somewhat useful?

Naganadel is flames and I can see it running a variety of sets, but NP + 3 atks Dragonium Z is the scariest imo. +2 DD into Draco kills Chansey if it switches in, and +2 DD kills standard Timid Heatran iirc. I can see more Heatrans running SpDef now because of this. Not to mention that its speed tier is stupidly good when you throw in Beast Boost... NP is easy to set up in Toxapex's face, and getting rid of TSpikes automatically is huge too. Definitely has the most potential out of all the new mons.

Blacephalon is complete booty and a shame really, since I love the design. 107 speed is disappointing, getting shut down by TTar every time is a huge dent in its viability since it can't even run HP Fighting lol. I honestly just see this taking over Chandelure's niche in OU and doing a better job. Specs, Scarf, and CM sets are somewhat interesting I guess, but I'm still disappointed in its speed tier and it not being Fairy/Ghost

I don't think people are giving Zeraora the credit it deserves. It might not be a fantastic mon by most standards, but it still has amazing speed and I can definitely see it running something like Work Up / Plasma Fists / HP Ice / Fire Punch or CC with a Life Orb. It's a pretty good cleaner like that imo, but I'm not sure what other sets it can afford to run with Lando being everywhere. It also takes advantage of Tapu Koko pretty well (bar D-Gleam). It's a cool mon and I'm surprised it hasn't gotten a bit more of discussion.

e: oh yeah stakataka is ass, should've been steel/ghost

 

[wisdom dog]

You could always run Firium Z, as that gives you a 200 BP Inferno Overdrive. Or run both Fire Blast and Mind Blown - one for power, one for consistency. It's not like it's bursting with coverage options anyway, and its STABs have pretty good neutral coverage. I think only Tyranitar, Greninja and Mega Houndoom resist both.

While I can't see it being a top tier threat, I think it will be one of those POkemon that need a fair bit of support, but can be amazing when it all comes together.

mega sharp and mega gyara as well

 

[Lolparty]

What are your guys thoughts on the new lycanroc? I don't think it'll be great but I can see it actually being usable. It's move pool is actually pretty good now with drill run, stone-edge, fire fang, accelerock, stealth rocks, sword dance, and taunt. Tough claws actually gives it significantly more power as well (makes drill run 104 bp, fire fang 85 bp, and accelerock 52 bp). I see it as a slightly weaker terrakion with worse typing and access to priority. Def not A tier, probs not even B tier, but I feel like it can make a home in C. I just want my rock doggo to be usable ;w;

 

[wisdom dog]

What are your guys thoughts on the new lycanroc? I don't think it'll be great but I can see it actually being usable. It's move pool is actually pretty good now with drill run, stone-edge, fire fang, accelerock, stealth rocks, sword dance, and taunt. Tough claws actually gives it significantly more power as well (makes drill run 104 bp, fire fang 85 bp, and accelerock 52 bp). I see it as a slightly weaker terrakion with worse typing and access to priority. Def not A tier, probs not even B tier, but I feel like it can make a home in C. I just want my rock doggo to be usable ;w;

Solid NU mon