So I Picked Door #2: VGC Doubles

[CCM30]

So...I picked Door #2...
VGC 2010 Doubles

UPDATED AS OF 2/19/10

Sort of a revamped version of my previous one a few back, but whatever. Essentially, a rain dance team that has been pretty good, but needs some work. And I love the criticism. Yes, the title is random and has no meaning.

At a Glance:
Toxicroak
Kyogre
Palkia
Swampert

Toxicroak w/ Life Orb
Adamant
Dry Skin
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
-Protect
-Fake Out
-Sucker Punch
-Low Kick

First part of my lead. Fake Out can take out an immediate threat to Kyogre (or itself) and is, in general, just a good lead set up. Protect for practical reasons. Sucker Punch to get in a good priority move and can make Mewtwo cry. Low Kick for guys like Dialga.

I really wanted a Fake Out user and, with its movepool and Dry Skin ability, Toxicroak was mentioned and taken in. He'll be able to do a good amount of damage and any water attacks will be absorbed without a second thought. Since RD teams are pretty common, I'm not worried about any sort of sun damage, but if that ends up being the case, I'll have to deal with it at that point. He should be fine in any other situation.

Kyogre w/ Iron Ball
Quiet
Drizzle
252 SpAtk/ 252 HP/ 4 SpDef
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
-Protect
-Water Spout

Slow as hell to set up Rain and go to work. Water Spout as a STAB to do ridiculous damage, Thunder to take advantage of the accuracy boost and Ice Beam for anyone weak against it, namely any Salamences, Garchomps or Rayquazas going around. He can take hits and give them back, too. A big part of my team right here.

Kyogre is slow essentially to set up RD, but also in case Trick Room comes in. As my team really isn't set up to defend against TR, Kyogre can definitely thrive in it (as can Swampert to some degree).

Palkia @ Life Orb / Haban Berry
Timid
Pressure
252 SpecAtk / 252 Speed / 6 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Originally had Mewtwo here, but now Palkia. Clearly for the rain boost and to do work. Spacial Rend and Hydro Pump for STAB. Thunder to do more damage (and coverage) with the accuracy boost.

Now, Fire Blast was put in instead of Protect just in case sun comes into play or if Shedinja gives me trouble. Palkia is going to come in when I need it and do work. With the speed and power, Palkia will make a good revenge killer and hopefully turn in the tide in battle if I need it.

Swampert w/ Leftovers
Impish
Torrent
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
-Earthquake
-Waterfall
-Protect
-Avalanche

Swampert can take hits and bring them back with no trouble. Earthquake can really come in handy in doubles, as will a STAB Waterfall. Protect...is protect. Avalanche will probably most likely have a boost since Swampert is more likely to be damaged in doubles with two opponents across from it. Another ice type attack may do me well.

Of course, I can also swap Swampert in if the other team gets Thunder/TBolt happy and take the shot with no damage. Paired with Toxicroak or Kyogre, Earthquakes can be rattled off while they use Protect and Waterfall will be even more powerful with rain in play.



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Tips on this new team, please?
​

 

[CCM30]

Just a bump. I'm considering using Toxicroak or Ludicolo in place of Floatzel for some Fake-Out coverage and whatever. Let me know.

 

[drcossack]

My comments on individual Pokemon are in Bold, and general comments are below the quoted post:

So...I picked Door #2...
VGC 2010 Doubles

Sort of a revamped version of my previous one a few back, but whatever. Essentially, a rain dance team that has been pretty good, but needs some work. And I love the criticism. Yes, the title is random and has no meaning.

At a Glance:
Kyogre
Floatzel
Mewtwo
Swampert

Yeah, it's an odd team. Or is it? It could work. I hope it does. I've been pretty successful with it so far, but I'm having some minor problems and hope they'll be remedied by anyone that wants to help. So, let's get to it.

Kyogre w/ Iron Ball
Quiet
Drizzle
252 SpAtk/ 252 HP/ 4 SpDef
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Water Spout

The first part of my lead, Kyogre's objective is to set up rain and abuse it. 0 speed IVs, -speed nature and Iron Ball essentially allows me to set it up 9 out of 10 times (I say that in case I get unlucky, but so far it has worked out in my favor). With rain set up, Kyogre will proceed to do as much damage as possible.

Thunder gets the 100% accuracy with rain in play, so it'll come in handy when I need to take out opposing Kyogres, Palkias, swift swimmers, etc. Ice Beam is for any pesky dragons looking to do some damage. Surf is a great STAB and can make a great sweep if I need it, as well as takes over for Water Spout when Kyogre starts to lose HP. Finally, Water Spout will be used as much as possible until it is weakened and Surf takes over.

Kyogre has been a key Pokemon for me in many battles, though the use of Choice Scarf Kyogres has hurt a bit. Still, he's a great asset to my team and I haven't had many problems with him.

you don't need 2 Water Moves. Get rid of one for Protect. I would say Spout since you're so slow as is. An Ogre like that might work best on a trick room team as a Pokemon put in the back. For this team, I suggest giving Ogre a +Speed nature like Timid, or a neutral speed nature like Modest - put him in the back, and use something that can function in both Rain and Sun (ie Palkia)

Floatzel w/ Life Orb
Adamant
Swift Swim
232 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 16 Speed
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch
-Aqua Jet
-Protect

I was pretty excited to use a Floatzel on this team. I really wasn't liking Kingdra (though if you think Kingdra is a better option, let me know) and I thought a Floatzel would work. So far, he's been pretty good, but I feel he needs some work.

Anyways, Floatzel is the second part of my lead. With rain in effect thanks to Kyogre, this swift swimmer can already outpace alot of the VGC field. Just like Kyogre, Floatzel is meant to be immediately ready to do damage. Though a bit frail, he can come in handy. Waterfall is the essential STAB move for Floatzel, nothing really else to say there. Ice Punch can also come in handy against anyone weak against it (and hopefully I get a freeze out of it).

The other two slots are still a bit iffy for me, though. Aqua Jet is there solely in case I find that I'm being beat in the speed race and I need to get the priority damage. It has come in handy quite a few times, but sometimes it is just redundant because a lot of the time Floatzel is able to get past a lot of the field. It's nice when he is paralyzed, though.

Protect fills the fourth slot because Floatzel needs to stay alive as long as possible. When I stop using Water Spout and move to Surf with Kyogre, he'll take damage and that's the last thing I need. Protect is just a useful move overall and has kept Floatzel in the game longer because of it.

Looks good, but he's fast to the point that he'd be raped in Trick Room. You can, of course, try to stall it out, but it can really wreak havoc with Floatzel's base 115 Speed.

Mewtwo w/ Leftovers
Modest
Pressure
252 SpAtk/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
-Thunder
-Protect
-Psychic
-Grass Knot

Mewtwo, Mewtwo, Mewtwo. I just don't know what to do with you. Mewtwo has been great...but he seems lacking and I'm not sure what route to go with him.

Mewtwo is the third in my party and is usually broken out when Floatzel or Kyogre goes down or I need a bit of help with some bulky water opponents. Thunder is there for the power and to take advantage of the rain. Protect is...Protect. You know what it does. Psychic is there for STAB and can be a good move, though I wish it were stronger. Finally, Grass Knot, in case the likes of Kyogre show up.

I feel Mewtwo is almost a bit redundant on this team because what he covers is covered already, for the most part. I want him to be a bit more contributing instead of just another Pokemon to be switched in and do damage. I really don't know what to do with him at this point.

Mewtwo - I'm not too crazy about him in the VGC; he's ridiculously fragile, and with the ability to get double-teamed...


Swampert w/ Leftovers
Impish
Torrent
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
-Earthquake
-Waterfall
-Protect
-Avalanche

Finally, Swampert. Swampert has been a successful Pokemon for me. He comes in late in the game (sometimes) and does work. Here's how it plays out.

Swampert is just, overall, a great Pokemon in my opinion. Can take hits and deal them back. That's his job. Any electric happy opponents trying to take out Floatzel or Kyogre will get a face full of Swampert when he switches in. And when he does, he doesn't fail. Sorry. Just had to get that out.

So, yeah, Swampert. Like I said, anyone trying to take advantage of Kyogre's rain via Thunder (or just using TBolt in general) may find it ineffective when I switch Swampert in. Earthquake is a great STAB, as is Waterfall. Both are very clutch moves that can deal good amounts of damage and sweep out weak opponents when I need it.

Protect, of course, is Protect. Avalanche, his fourth move, was a bit risky at first, but I find that its actually quite useful as Swampert is more likely to take damage in doubles. Someone is bound to damage him, so Avalanche gets that boost.

no opinion here, I've never seen Swampert used - that doesn't mean he can't work, but it seems kinda iffy.

---------------------------------------------------

My thoughts on the team and what needs work is as follows:

-The team feels a bit redundant, covering the same things multiple times
-Mewtwo and Floatzel (more so Mewtwo than Floatzel) still seem a bit iffy
-Lack of a Fake-Out user
-Banking on Kyogre a bit too much

So, that's my team. Help me out. :)
​

For a Fake Out User, I would suggest Ludicolo or Toxicroak. Croak can live a long time with Surf hitting it, and he can use Low Kick for Dialga, Sucker Punch for Mewtwo, etc. A Swift Swim Ludicolo will outspeed practically everything - Surf/Grass Knot/Protect/something is a good set.

One of the major problems with Rain teams is being walled by Shedinja - Shedinja would walk all over this team. A team I've had great success with, and one I plan on using for a Philadelphia regional qualifier (if there is one), is http://pastebin.com/d6fcbd840

I'd look at other Ubers - of the 9 allowed, I've found Kyogre, Palkia, Groudon, Dialga, Ho-oh, and Gira/Gira-O to be very impressive.

 

[CCM30]

Alright, the team has been edited and updated on the first post. The new team now consists of Toxicroak (replacing Floatzel) and Palka (replacing Mewtwo) with Kyogre and Swampert remaining.

More comments are appreciated!

 

[~Golden Emp]

Just some few nitpicks:

What Iron Ball does is to make a pokemon attack LAST every turn, even in trick room.

 

[Proodle.]

What Iron Ball does is to make a pokemon attack LAST every turn, even in trick room.

No it doesn't, it reduces the pokemon speed by 50%, so it will probably go first in trick room.

 

[CCM30]

No it doesn't, it reduces the pokemon speed by 50%, so it will probably go first in trick room.

Yeah. It's really meant to make sure Kyogre gets rain in effect, but if they want to set up TR, let them. Kyogre won't mind.

 

[DaNukes]

you need a better way to deal with shedinja, as far as i can see the only thing that can kill it is palkia, and toxicroak's unreliable sucker punch that shedinja can just protect around.swampert is just a waste of a pokemon on your team really... STAB waterfall? do you really need another water move? swampert is so slow that it will probably do one attack, and swampert isn't really strong enough to damage with watever it does.Also, Palkia and Kyogre have pretty much the same type moves...its a really bad waste of coverage.Instead you should use dialga, so that way you can set up TR, which toxicroak an abuse as well since it is slower than all the ubers allowed. Also, Dialga wont need to use the same exact moves as your kyogre...Replace swampert with something that resists the ground moves directed at toxicroak and dialga. The first thing that comes to mind is Cresselia, which can be a secondary TR user and supporter, or maybe lati@s, but that won't work if you are going with TR.idk you really need to change the core of your team, right now it looks like abusing rain with kyogre+palkia, but the problem with that is that both of your pokes are all out attackers, and palkia and kyogre have similar coverage.I think this is a bit weak and you need to think of more synergetic combos with pokemon that can cover up for the other one's weaknesses. Palkia and kyogre do basically the same thing, and a Toxicroak that is so fragile wont every get a chance to abuse its healing abilites with Dry skin becuaes it will be OHKO'ed. Maybe you could throw a sash on it? but then it wouldn't be too strong.im sorry if it seems like im saying garbage, but what im trying to say is that your team could go in a variety of different directions, because you havent acutally chose what you want your team to be. Since swampert just plain can't do anything other than take on dialga and palkia and kyogre are doing the same thing.

 

[Airfoil]

I would say Spout since you're so slow as is

I agree you should take Water Spout off Kyogre. While Water Spout is an excellent move, It's still based on your HP. Because you made your Kyogre depressingly slow, The enemy will outrun and remove a chunk of your health (thus, weakening it's power). I know for a fact that people will go all out on your Kyogre in fear of a Water Spout. Hydro Pump or Surf aren't as mighty as Water Spout, but should be taken into consideration.