So hyper offensive, Ho-oh doesn't need a spinner!

[nerdling101]

Okay, making an rmt. Show you now.

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magic Coat
It may seem odd to have a deoxys-s without any attacking moves, but if there was a fifth slot I'd put it there. The problem is, that with taunt and magic coat, I can generally be prevented from being taunted. Spikes and stealth rock are good to have in the game as early as possible. Punishes the opponents switching. Darkrai is a serious problem, because I don't know if I'm up against someone inexperienced(they dark void) but smart players dark pulse, which makes it difficult to decide on hazards or coating. If there is a Shaymin-s lead, then I sometimes lead with Ho-oh if I suspect that's the lead, or I make deoxys sitch out to ho-oh.

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 116 SAtk / 172 Spd / 220 Atk
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Judgment
- Flamethrower
- Recover
When hazards are down, spinners take them off. This set is good, taking out the common spinners, before they can use me as hazard bait. Forretress I judgement then flamethrower( Don't want any custap berries activated). Tentacruel is 2hkoed by earthquake, and usually 1hkoed because it switches in with hazards up. Excadrill gets doomed to either coverage move. Also, the uncommon cloyster is ditched by judgement. I didn't like the idea of giratina-o because of having a dragon weakness, with no resist( Palkia outspeeds most dragons)

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Spacial Rend
- Thunder
- Surf

Part one of a core that I like, Double scarf. The two greatest threats in usage are kyogre, and ekiller. Palkia deals with kyogre, and is my revenge killer. Palkia also counters giratina, which is a huge problem with this team. Thunder for kyogre killing, surf and spacial rend for stab. Outrage lets me take on special walls, like latias and blissey.

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Sleep Talk
Terrakion lets me take on the ekiller. With the hazards deoxys-s puts down,it can 1hko the ekiller. So, switch it in on normal arceus, and cc away. If the ekiller manages to survive, then ho-oh is bulky enough to take a +2 espeed before rocks, or groudon who can ko it with the little health it has left. It also can go toe to toe with darkrai. Sleep talk means it can switch into a dark void which is a better option then any of the on site options. Terrakion has problems with giratina, which is solved by the other part of the double scarf core-palkia.

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
The primary sweeper of my team. After a polish, it is very capable of late game sweeping. After a polish and a dance, very few can stand in its way. Rock slide does have a loss it power. However, a ten percent increase in accuracy if far better then stone edge. The flinch rate makes me feel that it is a better option then stone edge. A life orb means that it loses hp, which is bad, becasue groudon usually only has 20%ish when I finish setting it up. I tried muscle band, but got stuck with the lum berry that I stick on the ekiller when I use it. I lets me set up on giratina-o and lugia who try to toxic me, and gives me a chance to take on darkrai if terrrakion dies.

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 68 SDef / 248 HP / 176 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Substitute

I use ho-oh without a spinner. Deal with it. Ho-oh is generally bulky enough to shrug off the hit it first takes then roosts. Sacred fire is a secondary check to the ekiller, who think they can set up on ho-oh. A burned ekiller is crap. Brave bird is the stab that I use. It also takes on ferrothorn, who can cause trouble for groudon. Sub lets me take on threats when they switch. I find many teams have a weak spot for ho-oh, which I exploit.

If you want to play with this team
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 68 SDef / 248 HP / 176 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Substitute

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magic Coat

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 116 SAtk / 172 Spd / 220 Atk
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Judgment
- Flamethrower
- Recover

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Sleep Talk

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Spacial Rend
- Thunder
- Surf

 

[Haruno]

1. Mind explaining ghostceus' apparently random ev's?
2. Speed creep on ho oh, alot. Preferably 52 speed evs.

 

[Alfalfa]

52 Speed EVs allows you to tie with Adamant Scizor w/ 252 Speed EVs. However, Scizor is generally seen with a bulky spread of 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpD. 8 Speed EVs is all Ho-Oh really needs.

The Speed on Arceus allows it to outrun Timid Lati@s and Lugia. I am not sure what the Attack and Special Attack EVs do though.

 

[Haruno]

52 Speed EVs allows you to tie with Adamant Scizor w/ 252 Speed EVs. However, Scizor is generally seen with a bulky spread of 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpD. 8 Speed EVs is all Ho-Oh really needs.

The Speed on Arceus allows it to outrun Timid Lati@s and Lugia. I am not sure what the Attack and Special Attack EVs do though.

You're using the speed Evs to outrun other base 90's not scizor which doesn't threaten Ho Oh in the slightest.

Outspeeding latias/Lugia? Neither of which threaten ghostceus in any way bar sub Toxic from Lugia which ghostceus fails to break if multi scale is up. Not to mention he has two scarfers both of which threaten latias and Lugia far more than ghostceus

 

[steelskitty]

This team has so many issues.... man.

Honestly I was debating just linking you a thread on how to teambuild, but that's unoriginal and not very helpful.
Still, you should still consider a few of these things when teambuilding in the future.

#1: Honestly, never run Deoxys-S in sun, especially not sun HO. It has (literally) zero offensive presence, is easy to anti-lead, and is just generally a bad mon in today's meta. Also sun doesn't want to start off 5-6, as there's almost always something better that could fit in the teamslot Deoxys-S takes up. I don't care if I made a sun team with it in the past, that team was crap.

#2: Never run two scarfers, ever. Seriously, your team has no real way of getting momentum and autoloses vs any competent stall (even incompetent stall really), and this is largely due to the two scarfers. Dual scarfs are also just generally bad; literally the only situation where they're competitively viable is with Scarfrai/Another Scarfer (as Scarf Darkrai is a neat thing to (kind of) break stall, and can Trick its scarf onto something lategame).

#3: I don't give a damn about your team's so-called momentum; Ho-oh always needs a spinner or at the very least a Magic Bouncer. Especially considering the fact that it's so ridiculously easy to set up Stealth Rock versus this team.

#4: What the hell is with Ghostceus' EVs... seriously dude. The only relevant thing that you hit with Earthquake is Tentacruel and (lol) Heatran (not saying Heatran is a bad mon, but it's too uncommon to really be worth it). Also Ghostceus gets Psyshock, but for some reason you thought it would be a better idea to waste EVs on Attack and give it Earthquake to deal with Tentacruel..?

#5: I have issues just with everything's sets generally; Subroosting Ho-oh is worse than Choice Band in Sun, Scarf Palkia is bad (doesn't even have the power to OHKO some of the bulkier dragons with Spacial Rend), Double Dancing Lum Groudon is only good when the team has momentum, and Ghostceus looks like it wants to be a Giratina-O but it wasn't worth it for some reason.

Seriously I think you might be better just scrapping the team and starting over.

 

[Edgar]

use custap forry or something to stop hazards

 

[MrKijani]

Well most of what I would have suggested SteelSkitty already mentioned.

Groudon:
Change your EVs to this: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Smogon's set and there's a reason for it. You don't need max Spe for Rock Polish.
And I know people rage about Stone Edge missing all the time but seriously, Stone Edge > Rock Slide.

Palkia works well as a Revenge Scarfer imo, so feel free to keep it. Hydro Pump > Surf since this is a sun team and you need all the power you can get, and use Fire Blast > Outrage as you can use one of your Physical attackers to take out Special walls. That way you don't need to run a mixed set.

Ho-Oh, I'm sorry but I can't deal with the fact that you don't have a spinner, and as Deoxys-S is somewhat detrimental to the team you might consider replacing it with someone like Dialga who would do fine with Ho-Oh, and can set up Rocks and act as a sweeper. Still need a spinner however, so I'll think on that a while.

Dialga @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder/Aura Sphere

Yeah I took the set from Smogon, so sue me :p
Dialga can hit quite hard even from a non boosted SAtk, so if you invest and slap a LO on it your ready to hand out the KOs. Ho-Oh actually works well for Dialga, as it gives you someone to switch into for Ground, and Fighting.

Arceus-Ghost needs help badly. I would suggest some of Smogon's sets as they work very well.

Forretress is pretty much your best chance as a spinner. Smogon's SDef set is the one I'd use.

Forretress @Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch

Other than that, SteelSkitty had some good suggestions. From #1-#4 (because I use and like Band-Oh in sun)
Take a look at the team building page.

 

[Hack]

8 Speed EVs is all Ho-Oh really needs.

Ugh. It's called speed creep, and all base 90s do it. You need a large one on Ho-oh is it is absolutely detrimental to be slower than support Groudon, Dialga etc. Other than that, Custap Forry> Deoxys-S like Blackstardust said. I'd changed Palkia to Latias or a non-choiced Palkia, two scarfers aren't good on this team, and a Latias would serve as a sturdies check to Kyogre, while lustkia threatens stall greatly. Ghostceus is also whack, use the on site CM set. Seriously though, if I started changing this team it would just turn into one of my 100 sun teams anyway, so I'd better lay off here.

#1: Honestly, never run Deoxys-S in sun, especially not sun HO. It has (literally) zero offensive presence, is easy to anti-lead, and is just generally a bad mon in today's meta. Also sun doesn't want to start off 5-6, as there's almost always something better that could fit in the teamslot Deoxys-S takes up. I don't care if I made a sun team with it in the past, that team was crap.

#2: Never run two scarfers, ever. Seriously, your team has no real way of getting momentum and autoloses vs any competent stall (even incompetent stall really), and this is largely due to the two scarfers. Dual scarfs are also just generally bad; literally the only situation where they're competitively viable is with Scarfrai/Another Scarfer (as Scarf Darkrai is a neat thing to (kind of) break stall, and can Trick its scarf onto something lategame).

Never speak in absolutes, Steelskitty, and Deoxys-S on sun HO isn't unviable, but with Ho-oh it's iffy.

 

[nerdling101]

The 'random' evs on ghostceus let me ko temtacruel and cloyster after rocks, two spinners. Flame thrower roasts forretress and excadrill, As well as ferrothorn. I tried latias, but it just doesn't fit the team well. What's bad about deoxys-s? It gets up hazards fast which secures my koes and punishes thier switching. Starting 5-6 isn't that bad, it actually stops thier switching which eases my prediction, or makes them take damage. I'll try the evs on ho-oh. Thanks for that

 

[steelskitty]

Okay, Hack is totally right. It's silly of me to speak in absolutes. I just got a bit mad when I saw the title "so hyper-offensive, Ho-oh doesn't need a spinner", and it all sort of went downhill from there.

Deoxys-S isn't totally unviable in sun, but considering sun appreciates using Stealth-Rock weak mons/mons that dislike hazards (Kyurem-White, Reshiram, Ho-oh, Palkia, etc etc), it's generally more beneficial to run something that can get hazards up and also spin them away, and Deoxys-S doesn't have rapid spin lol.

I'm struggling to think of any successful teams that have used Ho-oh without a spinner or a magic bouncer. The 4x Stealth Rock weakness is essentially the only bad thing about Ho-oh; it's arguably the most powerful Pokemon in the game without Rocks on the field. Also, both Espeon and Xatu have really cool utilities (Espy has Yawn and Grass Knot, Xatu can try to run Dual Screens and it gets Heat Wave to beat Steels) that don't make them total deadweight when they aren't Bouncing hazards and status around. I would seriously recommend Espeon>Deoxys-S, and I might run a more traditional set on Groudon.

Your current Groudon set is a fantastic lategame cleaner, but it falls flat on its face without any momentum. This team doesn't give it much momentum, and if you're not using Deoxys-S, you want a hazard setter. Groudon runs a very viable set with Earth Plate...

I Got Heat (Groudon) @ Earth Plate
Trait: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch

I've won many battles with this set, and have also lost to it many times. The basic idea is to OHKO their spinner and/or hazard setter with either Earthquake or Fire Punch while also giving you hazards of your own. Additionally, it breaks some rainstall should Ho-oh die prematurely. Stone Edge is essentially for Revenging Ho-oh, though Dragon Tail prevents you from being set up on by bulkier stuff while also punishing Giratina-Origin switchins and hitting most of the same targets. Both have their merits.

The dual scarfs are pretty bad; I wasn't exaggerating when I said there were almost no situations where they're competitively viable. Both are capable of revenging a wide portion of the metagame, but both can be set up/forced out by the things they're meant to counter should they lock themselves into a bad move (Fire Blast on Palkia, for example). It seems like your safest bet here would to be run Lustrous Orb Palkia, or maybe a Specs set. Again, both have their merits. Specs Palker in sun has zero safe switchins, but prediction can be a bitch with it. Lustrous Palkia gives you the lategame cleaner you want while also being able to bluff a choice set, but it isn't as powerful as specs, and Sun Palkia wants all the extra power it can get.

It's generally detrimental to run Substitute on Ho-oh when the much better (in my opinion) Choice Band set is also available. Choice Band Ho-oh has one of the strongest STABs in the game with sun-boosted CB STAB Sacred Fire and it can viably run Earthquake, which is very cool to blow through Rockceus/Tyranitar/Zekrom/Rainstall. Substitute is a cool move to block revenge killers, but the Ho-oh you're running isn't as powerful as it could be... Sub Ho-oh struggles to break through several of the bulkier things in the game such as Giratina (Choice Band 2HKOs with a bit of prior damage), Rockceus (Good luck Sacred Firing it with your set, but CB has Earthquake to nail it on the switch), Zekrom (again, Earthquake), Physically Bulky Kyogre/Groudon (Choice Band 2HKOs both), you see my point.

The final thing is Ghostceus. Seriously, it doesn't need to be able to both spinblock and beat common spinners. Also (lol) Judgment hits Cloyster harder than Earthquake ever will, and the rest of the team roasts Tentacruel. Just run 252 HP/252+Spd/4 Satk with Judgment/Flamethrower/Will-o-wisp (or Thunder Wave)/Recover. Earthquake is detrimental as it requires you to split your EVs up, sacrificing both bulk and attacking power. Flamethrower beats Forretress and Excadrill, the two most common spinners, anyway. The support set has fantastic bulk to throw around while also supporting the rest of the team with status and nice two-move coverage.

With these changes you should have a solid team.

 

[FlareQuake]

Basically everything above that everyone already said; Double Scarfer is in fact not good. ScarfKia is really weak, its not really a good scarfed candidate imo. And you wont really be hitting anything hard w/Outrage that it Rend isn't (despite Blissey, but you have Terrak for that). Go Specs Kia, it counters Kyogre just as well, if not better. And maybe in the lower tiers Deo-S might be good and all, but considering the fact you run no attacks on it; against an experienced player, you will most likely never get any rocks up, as Deo-S is extremely easy to play around the majority of the time. (Its true that you could fake a Support Groudon set and Do something like SD or RP, but it's iffy at best, and you'll just end up getting phazed the following turn most likely. Plus most Espeons carry Sash, and im pretty sure Grass Knot would do like 70-80% to you and they're brought down to their sash, and then they KO you the next turn (depending on weather you SD/RP'd), so not really the best but meh).
Mhm, Arceus's Evs?
Id change Ho Oh's Speed Evs to 24.
No need for 252 Speed on Groudon. 176 Spd is enough (with rest into HP). Oh and one last thing, your team lacks an answer for Darkrai's DV (Other than Double Scarf, but Kia cant even OHKO darkrai w/Spacial Rend, and Magic Coat isnt really a good answer to DV).