It's not that surprising, and probably isn't that meaningful either. Removing Garchomp and Deoxys was a massive change in offensive and defensive teambuilding needs and there hasn't been nearly enough time to fully adjust to it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - August 2008
- Thread starter DougJustDoug
- Start date
Cool stuff. I claim the "Other" portion of Lucario natures in Standard. <_<
*used Timid LO Lucario*
*used Timid LO Lucario*
Standard Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 160,531 (56.10% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 44
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Probability that Pokemon leads in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Suspect Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 28,088 (9.82% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 38
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Probability that Pokemon leads in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Underused Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 16,817 (5.88% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 47
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Probability that Pokemon leads in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Uber Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 5,978 (2.09% of battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 17
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Probability that Pokemon leads in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Number of Battles: 160,531 (56.10% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 44
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Code:
Garchomp - 54.74%
Gengar - 45.38%
Gyarados - 35.91%
Metagross - 35.46%
Lucario - 33.83%
Deoxys-S - 31.85%
Blissey - 31.79%
Heatran - 31.06%
Bronzong - 28.27%
Infernape - 26.56%
Salamence - 25.56%
Tyranitar - 25.28%
Azelf - 21.33%
Starmie - 21.15%
Celebi - 19.75%
Gliscor - 18.98%
Weavile - 17.08%
Suicune - 16.54%
Swampert - 16.33%
Forretress - 15.56%
Heracross - 15.41%
Vaporeon - 15.37%
Zapdos - 15.21%
Cresselia - 14.10%
Skarmory - 13.60%
Togekiss - 13.29%
Dusknoir - 13.25%
Electivire - 13.23%
Mamoswine - 12.81%
Yanmega - 12.45%
Machamp - 12.22%
Magnezone - 12.12%
Scizor - 11.89%
Breloom - 11.76%
Tentacruel - 10.55%
Jirachi - 10.49%
Snorlax - 10.40%
Dragonite - 10.07%
Spiritomb - 8.93%
Ninjask - 8.93%
Milotic - 8.70%
Aerodactyl - 8.35%
Alakazam - 8.03%
Porygon-Z - 8.01%
------------------------ 75% cutoff
Jolteon - 7.57%
Gallade - 7.27%
Roserade - 7.07%
Donphan - 6.75%
Dugtrio - 6.70%
Kingdra - 6.68%
Hippowdon - 6.55%
Umbreon - 6.06%
Abomasnow - 5.83%
Crobat - 5.77%
Rhyperior - 5.47%
Weezing - 5.12%
All Others - < 5%
Code:
Azelf - 27.82%
Bronzong - 22.42%
Tyranitar - 19.02%
Gengar - 16.66%
Yanmega - 15.63%
Deoxys-S - 15.57%
Infernape - 14.07%
Ninjask - 13.05%
Gyarados - 11.99%
Aerodactyl - 11.48%
Roserade - 8.84%
Crobat - 8.72%
Weavile - 8.30%
Abomasnow - 8.10%
Zapdos - 7.82%
Salamence - 7.44%
Hippowdon - 7.19%
Forretress - 6.27%
Metagross - 6.25%
Heatran - 6.19%
Ambipom - 5.96%
Jolteon - 5.37%
All Others - < 5%Suspect Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 28,088 (9.82% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 38
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Code:
Gengar - 48.39%
Heatran - 45.86%
Salamence - 41.84%
Lucario - 38.62%
Metagross - 36.64%
Gyarados - 35.57%
Tyranitar - 31.90%
Celebi - 31.39%
Gliscor - 28.87%
Bronzong - 27.71%
Blissey - 27.36%
Infernape - 25.81%
Starmie - 23.76%
Swampert - 22.73%
Azelf - 22.61%
Zapdos - 20.99%
Jirachi - 20.85%
Magnezone - 20.78%
Dragonite - 19.46%
Suicune - 19.06%
Mamoswine - 19.02%
Heracross - 17.96%
Vaporeon - 17.47%
Forretress - 16.04%
Weavile - 15.07%
Skarmory - 14.68%
Machamp - 13.37%
Yanmega - 12.76%
Spiritomb - 12.40%
Dugtrio - 12.28%
Roserade - 11.17%
Togekiss - 10.95%
Tentacruel - 10.64%
Cresselia - 10.32%
Porygon2 - 10.19%
Scizor - 10.11%
Electivire - 9.81%
Aerodactyl - 9.70%
-------------------------- 75% cutoff
Alakazam - 9.07%
Dusknoir - 8.49%
Breloom - 8.32%
Snorlax - 7.43%
Hippowdon - 7.24%
Crobat - 7.21%
Milotic - 7.08%
Porygon-Z - 6.82%
Jolteon - 6.55%
Ambipom - 6.20%
Donphan - 6.05%
Gallade - 5.69%
Azumarill - 5.46%
Kingdra - 5.40%
Mismagius - 5.27%
Deoxys-S*- 5.05%
Raikou - 5.02%
All Others - < 5%
* Deoxys-S was not banned from the start of the suspect ladder
Code:
Azelf - 29.37%
Bronzong - 25.50%
Tyranitar - 21.68%
Yanmega - 16.54%
Gengar - 16.39%
Roserade - 15.78%
Aerodactyl - 15.43%
Infernape - 13.38%
Metagross - 11.74%
Crobat - 11.47%
Gyarados - 10.86%
Heatran - 9.90%
Ambipom - 9.65%
Weavile - 9.10%
Hippowdon - 8.10%
Zapdos - 8.08%
Ninjask - 7.72%
Salamence - 7.32%
Machamp - 6.02%
Alakazam - 6.00%
Abomasnow - 5.35%
Electrode - 5.24%
All Others - < 5%Underused Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 16,817 (5.88% of all battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 47
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Code:
Claydol - 41.14%
Steelix - 39.81%
Clefable - 36.42%
Rotom - 35.35%
Hitmontop - 33.29%
Ninetales - 31.66%
Aerodactyl - 31.00%
Weezing - 28.88%
Venusaur - 24.84%
Hitmonlee - 23.61%
Hypno - 23.08%
Poliwrath - 21.85%
Swellow - 20.88%
Absol - 20.47%
Toxicroak - 20.22%
Altaria - 19.95%
Leafeon - 18.97%
Blastoise - 18.87%
Lanturn - 16.48%
Froslass - 16.21%
Persian - 15.90%
Sharpedo - 15.33%
Primeape - 15.30%
Scyther - 15.14%
Manectric - 14.79%
Miltank - 14.47%
Venomoth - 14.08%
Nidoqueen - 13.70%
Drapion - 13.68%
Drifblim - 13.21%
Glaceon - 12.59%
Nidoking - 12.09%
Jynx - 11.43%
Rapidash - 11.33%
Mantine - 11.23%
Meganium - 11.01%
Electrode - 10.60%
Gastrodon - 10.27%
Kangaskhan - 9.68%
Probopass - 9.31%
Banette - 9.20%
Lopunny - 9.02%
Jumpluff - 8.94%
Kabutops - 8.81%
Omastar - 8.79%
Lapras - 8.57%
Vileplume - 8.48%
------------------------ 75% cutoff
Articuno - 8.37%
Aggron - 8.33%
Hitmonchan - 8.15%
Cacturne - 8.09%
Gorebyss - 7.98%
Quagsire - 7.79%
Sandslash - 7.72%
Grumpig - 7.56%
Golduck - 7.25%
Flareon - 7.15%
Octillery - 6.95%
Relicanth - 6.82%
Cloyster - 6.53%
Muk - 6.11%
Camerupt - 6.00%
Shuckle - 5.75%
Torkoal - 5.45%
Armaldo - 5.25%
Shiftry - 5.19%
Pikachu - 5.10%
Linoone - 5.09%
All Others - < 5%
Code:
Aerodactyl - 29.07%
Persian - 21.90%
Steelix - 19.42%
Electrode - 16.29%
Swellow - 14.92%
Primeape - 13.59%
Lopunny - 12.30%
Venusaur - 11.95%
Hitmontop - 11.14%
Clefable - 10.62%
Scyther - 9.80%
Rapidash - 9.72%
Claydol - 9.03%
Hitmonlee - 8.82%
Jumpluff - 8.33%
Froslass - 8.25%
Rotom - 7.90%
Nidoqueen - 7.59%
Banette - 7.51%
Jynx - 7.29%
Sharpedo - 7.19%
Ninetales - 7.05%
Absol - 6.92%
Drifblim - 6.40%
Kangaskhan - 5.44%
All Others - < 5%Uber Ladder Statistics
Number of Battles: 5,978 (2.09% of battles)
Number of Pokemon used in the top 75% of usages: 17
Probability that Pokemon is in either or both players' teams during a battle:
Code:
Kyogre - 81.49%
Rayquaza - 68.63%
Groudon - 62.53%
Dialga - 59.51%
Palkia - 59.28%
Darkrai - 53.99%
Deoxys-A - 46.19%
Latias - 43.62%
Mewtwo - 39.34%
Blissey - 38.66%
Lugia - 37.88%
Giratina - 36.84%
Metagross - 33.09%
Mew - 26.37%
Latios - 21.56%
Garchomp - 19.19%
Scizor - 18.87%
-------------------------- 75% cutoff
Forretress - 18.28%
Ho-oh - 15.12%
Tyranitar - 14.50%
Deoxys-S - 13.95%
Jirachi - 13.09%
Shedinja - 12.29%
Wobbuffet - 12.04%
Deoxys-D - 9.61%
Heracross - 9.61%
Manaphy - 8.70%
Bronzong - 8.54%
Registeel - 7.84%
Dugtrio - 6.29%
Gengar - 6.14%
Heatran - 5.95%
Ninjask - 5.23%
Ludicolo - 5.05%
All Others - < 5%
Code:
Kyogre - 47.15%
Darkrai - 39.16%
Dialga - 39.05%
Deoxys-A - 38.48%
Groudon - 28.75%
Deoxys-S - 19.88%
Mewtwo - 19.55%
Mew - 17.10%
Palkia - 11.96%
Latias - 9.18%
Ninjask - 8.00%
Azelf - 6.19%
All Others - < 5%
I am sure it is going to screw with people's minds that suspect is "more centralized" than standard. haha
...I'm stunned... So... uh... Garchomp + Deoxys-S leads to a more diverse metagame? I guess he took out a few of his overspecific counters with him, but still you'd think viable Ground weak Pokémon like Nidoqueen and Jirachi wolud skyrocket... well, they did, but moreso.
So, in essence, Garchomp had a sizable effect on the metagame... but didn't centralize it?
Interesting note: Porygon2 made OU, but PorygonZ didn't. I mean it makes sense as Porygon2 is a better Pokémon IMO, but has that ever happened before that a pre-evolution has been in a higher tier?
So, in essence, Garchomp had a sizable effect on the metagame... but didn't centralize it?
Interesting note: Porygon2 made OU, but PorygonZ didn't. I mean it makes sense as Porygon2 is a better Pokémon IMO, but has that ever happened before that a pre-evolution has been in a higher tier?
Remember, I don't think these centralization statistics should be hold too much weight as they only have one month behind them.
We can certainly vote on Garchomp's effect on the metagame as we have experienced it for over 10 months now, but I don't think we should worry too much about the suspect statistics.
All this tells us is for the suspects that we want to include in our metagame that one month might not be enough.
We can certainly vote on Garchomp's effect on the metagame as we have experienced it for over 10 months now, but I don't think we should worry too much about the suspect statistics.
All this tells us is for the suspects that we want to include in our metagame that one month might not be enough.
I agree with Aldaron, that it's not like anyone can figure out just how to take advantage of garchomp's absense in a single month. I got the feeling that it was mostly people harping around the "new" top sweepers. Look at Salamence's use, my god. O.o To be expected though
Wtf Porygon2 has +42 places in suspect
You've got tho be kiddin me
I always knew 2>Z but that insane rise is just crazy and he will certainly lower again the fellowing months
Rofl at all those people who said Suspect is such a diverse and creative metagame while you actually see more of the same there then in Standard
So yes people whatever you all said Standard is still by far the most diverse and less centralised metagame
You've got tho be kiddin me
I always knew 2>Z but that insane rise is just crazy and he will certainly lower again the fellowing months
Rofl at all those people who said Suspect is such a diverse and creative metagame while you actually see more of the same there then in Standard
So yes people whatever you all said Standard is still by far the most diverse and less centralised metagame
In the Suspect Metagame the #1 Pokemon in usage is Gengar at around 15,000.
In Standard the #1 Pokemon is Garchomp at around 100,000. Followed by the #2 Pokemon at around 80,000.
Please tell me how the Standard Metagame is less centralized than the Suspect Metagame.
It seems today that the Standard Metagame is all about countering DualScreen Deoxys-E, and Garchomp.
You aren't counting the fact that the Standard metagame has almost 8 times as many battles than the Suspect.
160531/28088=5.7152
105,070 (garchomp uses) / 5.7152 (ratio of standard/suspect games) = 18384 proportionate Garchomp uses
Gengar has 15818 uses in suspect.
It's a lot closer than you think. (Or you could at X-Act percent tables)
The same thing happened when the first UU ladder statistics came out, right?
I don't think it's all that surprising, I mean you hear people ranting about how crazy good Lucario and Heatran are and you can't help but use them yourself, especially if you're trying to maintain a decent record. There are a lot of factors to consider I suppose, it's just kind of sad because if the statistics gave us like 60 OU pokemon in suspect or whatever, people would be screaming about how telling that is. >_>
The only thing "rofl" here is mien's belief that one month of statistics is enough to "rofl" about.
Bottom line is that we can vote on removing aspects in a metagame after a month because we have experienced them for the entire time.
However, is one month enough to determine addition?
I don't think so. The metagame needs much longer to develop.
Bottom line is that we can vote on removing aspects in a metagame after a month because we have experienced them for the entire time.
However, is one month enough to determine addition?
I don't think so. The metagame needs much longer to develop.
The stats are interesting to say the least....Some pokemon moved up while others moved down.
Thanks and great job.
Thanks and great job.
I imagine that would be a ton of work for what would amount to a trivial statistic at best. Just because you should assume that your opponent's Jolteon carries HP Ice does not mean it's a great idea to switch in Swampert off the bat. You don't need stats to tell you this.
I second that. Gabite doesn't even learn swords dance which is what makes Garchomp so threatening.
I wanted to make distinctions with Hidden Power, but it's not as strightforward as you might think. Right now, the way logs report battle info, it would require the collections of all IV's of all pokemon and then calculate the Hidden Power type every time. It's not a hard calc, but gathering the IV's JUST for calculating Hidden Power, is a bit of a pain. I may make a change to the server to change the way Hidden Power is reported into the log.
I plan to look into this further, but it is fairly low priority right now.
I plan to look into this further, but it is fairly low priority right now.
QFT.
It's been one month, people, and the difference between the two ladders is only four (once you remove Garchomp and Deoxys from standard). Give things more time to rest before you declare everything a failure like mien and others have irresponsibly done.
There are 8 times as many matches on Standard as there are on Suspect...of course there aren't going to be as many pokemon used since there isn't anybody using them! Duh!
give me a break. Use some common sense before posting things like "this proves garchomp isnt bad!!!!" because that's obviously a dumb thing to extrapolate from these stats. Even if Suspect produced 55 pokemon in ou this month it wouldn't have meant much.
One months of statistics or not, this is not a true statement. You can see clearly that while there are more pokemon in OU in standard than suspect, you can also see that there is a more even distribution of the pokemon that make up OU. Garchomp is used more in Standard than Gengar in Suspect. Heatran in suspect marginally edges out Gengar in standard, but if you continue comparing like this, the remainder of the top 5 are all used less in suspect than in standard.
Also when you think about the fact that there are 50 times the number of battles in standard this starts to make sense. Casual battling was mostly done on the standard ladder, the suspect test ladder was presumeably dominated by people trying to qualify for the vote. You had a smaller number of people all doing a larger proportion of the battle, if those people were using the same team a lot (which they no doubt were) that gives you a higher number of battles made by any given team. Considering this, it seems almost impossible that OU would have been larger in suspect test than in Standard.
It would be interesting if there were stats about how many different battlers made up whatever proportion of the suspect test battles compared with the standard battles.
Have a nice day.
^^^So essentially, can I conclude that it would have been a good idea to keep the eligibility requirements a secret until the data was collected, in order to get a "more diverse" statistic?