Series 8 Viability Rankings

[Bananers]

Gonna make a few noms once again.

Thundurus
To A/A+
Yeah I'm on the Thundy train at the moment, this mon is amazing. Incineroar has just gone up to 60% usage, and Thundy is the Incin Police. This thing just destroys everything at plus one, also boosting its speed in the process. I prefer LOrb to AV but AV is very viable, and gives it a better MU vs the whale. Also if it isn't telling enough how good this mon is, in Pikalytics new usage update it is now the third most used, used more than behemoths like Lando, Urshifu, Rillaboom, and Zacian-C.

Kyogre
To A
I said in my last big nom post that I was unsure if this mon was good or bad, and I have come to a conclusion. This mon is heavily matchup dependent. Sure in a matchup where there are no Grass or Electrics present it completely destroys, but a good player will always have one of those. In these matchups, Kyogre struggles to find footing to fire off Water Spouts and is put in awkward positions. So in a way its basically exactly like Caly-S, hence why I think it should be the same tier as it.

Porygon2
To A+
This mon is super splashable. It fits on basically any balance team and compresses many rolls into one. Damage reducer? Check. TR? Check. Attacker? Check (Tri Attack does stupid damage after a download boost and the right EV spread). WP proccer? Check. Endgame mon? Check. It also has an added bonus of a TR setter that doesn't insta lose to Urshifu, as you can survive a banded CC and actually OHKO with a Tri Attack provided you get a SpAtk buff, which is likely due to Shifu's poor SpDef. There isn't really a good reason to not run this on your team, because why not have a better TR matchup and gain all the roles I listed above?

Tapu Fini
To A-
Yeah Fini is a very solid support mon sure, but the meta is very unkind to it at the moment. Just looking at the top ten on Pikalytics, 3 of the mons just OHKO, and P2 and Whimsicott which are 11 and 12 have a good MU against it, the former punishing its Icy Wind spam with TR. Oh and lets not forget the absolute L Thundy hands Fini. Like I said, still a solid support mon, but its just weak to the current trends. Essentially I agree with smogon account, good but not A tier good.

Amoonguss
To A-
Oh Amoonguss, what have the last two gens done to you. In the right MU this thing is great, but with support Fini, Thundy, and Safety Goggles being spammed, this is falling off.

Incineroar
To S+ maybe
Ok so I think we should be seriously considering this for S+, it's just on another level. Name one team that this doesn't fit on, I will wait. Intimidate is so good at completely shutting down some mons, or significantly neuter them. I mean look at Caly-I and Necro DM, on paper they are broken mons, but due to the presence of Incineroar they are nicher picks. This things movepool is also insane. Burning Jealousy, Snarl, Parting Shot, U-Turn, Fake Out, Flare Blitz, Darkerst Lariat/Throat Chop/Lash Out, and thats excluding some nicher moves like WoW and Stomping Tantrum. It just recently broke the 60% usage mark, and I know that Usage=/=Viability, but come on guys this is pretty telling.
​

Thanks for reading and I'll be back with more noms soon!

 

[jAiy12]

Hello. Since the meta has developed a lot since this list was created, I wanted to give some suggestions to help make this tier list more reflective of the current meta

Grimmsnarl: S -> A-
Grimmsnarl is a good mon for helping bulky restricteds such as Dialga and Solgaleo become even bulkier, but it is really only used on such teams. It isn't as "slappable" as say, Incineroar, which it currently shares its tier with. It's role as a screen setter can also be taken by Lapras, which several teams have opted for instead due to both its offensive capabilities and its good matchup versus Kyogre, neither of which Grimmsnarl has.

Thundurus-I: A- -> A+
Thundurus has been picking up in usage recently, and with how common Incineroar is, Thundurus has been shown to have a place in the metagame. Benefiting from the extremely common Intimidate, as well as offering Max Knuckle and Airstream both for itself and it's partners, Thundurus is an exceptional pick. Sets can be the standard Life Orb for maximum damage output, or items such as Lum berry or Safety Goggles to check Venusaur, or Assault Vest to increase its bulk.

Ho-oh: A- -> B-
While Ho-oh does boast exceptional bulk, it lacks offense. 130 attack isn't a lot for a restricted, and a single intimidate greatly reduces its damage output, while intimidate cycling nearly renders it useless, allowing you to essentially ignore it and ko it in the endgame. The presense of Thundurus-I doesn't do it any favors either, threatening immense damage on its less bulky physical spectrum.

Whimsicott: B+ -> A-
Whimsicott has been a staple of Gen 8 vgc, and this series is no different. Offering the same tailwind support it always does, Whimsicott enables hyper offense allowing games to end quickly, with Taunt to threaten Trick Room setters and Fake Tears to offer more damage output for special attackers such as Lapras and Calyrex-S.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: B -> A-
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane was shoved aside as a worse Solgaleo, simply because its lack of Clear Body makes it weak to intimidate. However, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane has began to show promise. Its overall better stats, with the exception of speed, allow it to deal and take more damage than Solgaleo, with the ability to raise its attack after an intimidate via Swords Dance or Dragon Dance, neither of which Solgaleo has access to. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane's lower speed allows it to better function in trick room as well, and just like Solgaleo, after defense and special defense boosts from Max Steelspike and Quake, respectively, Necrozma can reach obscene levels of bulk, which are only increased by screen support by Grimmsnarl or Lapras.

Torkoal B -> A-
While Groudon may exist as an alternative sun setter for Venusaur and Charizard, Torkoal cannot be overlooked. It's access to Yawn and Burning Jealousy give it a supportive niche over Groudon, and Body Press gives it an alternative single target attack to make use of its defense stat if one opts for a supportive set. More offensive sets with Charcoal as the item of choice also have some merit, threatening significant damage on anything that doesn't resist it with an effectively 180 bp spread move in Eruption, boosted by sun.

Umbreon B- -> A-
You know it, you love it, Umbreon. Its natural bulk and access to snarl, moonlight, and yawn make it very effective at stalling out dynamax from the opponent, and foul play threatens damage on the many physical attackers in the format, such as Thundurus-I, Calyrex-Ice, and Solgaleo, not to mention the natually high attack stats of most restricteds still allows for some decent damage on even the special attackers. Its bulk and access to recovery allows it to stall out endgames to a victory (albeit not on cart). Less common move choices such as Helping Hand and Baby-Doll Eyes also allow it to provide support to the team, and force its opponent to ko it at some point, rather than just ignoring it until the end.

Sorry this is so long, but thanks for reading!

 

[KachiVGC]

I'm here to make some nominations Drops


A+->A-
This pokemon is a very great offensive grass type next alongside Kartana, a priority stab move boosted by grassy terrain is very powerful, miracle seed makes grassy glide a more than average attacking move, and the choice band may while locking you into one move, super effective or neutral moves decimates many pokemon, especially with terrain, boosted wood hammers. This is all very amazing but, the drawbacks are why it makes me feel to come to a conclusion to rank it lower. Tornadus is a big threat because it only gets three-hit ko by grassy glide which is more than enough time to click hurricane on rillaboom. Ever since incineroar rose to be the most popular pokemon right now, thundurus is in the position as the no.1 inc in check/counter, so rillaboom players have to be prepared for thundurus or it can wreak havoc. I could certainly go on and on, but to maintain interest I'm going to leave it off at that note.



A->B+
This is understandable, urshifu is a fast strong physical attacker that hits for really hard damage with an essentially 120 base power stab move. Urshifu's stabs don't really help it against the metagame because dark types have a bad matchup against zacian-crowned and fighting types are certainly not welcome because of the rise of thundurus. Tapu Fini is still one of the most popular pokemon right now meaning urshifu isn't safe from fairy types yet, but with the help of zacian-crowned, I believe that urshifu is still a powerful physical option.


A+->A-
Charizard will always be a one-hit ko machine for this generation, no questions needed. The problem is Charizard's bulk has made bigger holes than it creates, the specific threats to Charizard are, Landorus(if bulky and maxed), Groudon(if zard isn't packing overgrowth and maxed), Kyogre(only in rain), and Incineroar out of the sun. Normal threats to Charizard are regielki and thundurus. Charizard is still amazing and will probably stay for series 9.



S->A-
Lapras in the early metagame was S tier because people were still finding ways to beat zacian-crowned, now the metagame has settled and pokemon like Raichu and proygon2 are annoying Lapras' already shit offenses with eerie impulse. Zacian does a big amount to non-bulky Lapras and incineroar can still take a hit from a defensive Lapras and pivot with a parting shot, Regeleki also puts a timer on Lapras, and now Regeleki is adjusting to focus sash for more longevity. Lapras has a lot of great synergy with Dialga, Zacian-crowned, and bulkier restricted. This doesn't mean Lapras isn't good, it's still an amazing support mon.
Rises


A+->A+/S
This thing is still annoying as hell and since zacian is struggling outside of an anti-intimidate porygon-2 now can have time to focus on its special side this doesn't mean zacian is out of the picture, porygon-2 still needs a proper way to deal with LapDog. AT this point, nothing touches this thing. Eerie impulse shuts down things like calyrex-shadow, yvetal, kyogre, and so on. Porygon-2 still has problems on the defensive pokemon with taunt incineroar, Tornadus, and opposing porygon-2 creating an extremely long stall battle. Indeedee is still an amazing partner that can really help get a trick room off more accurately.
weak without any boost and even with life orb the output isn't that surprising, pokemon like Raichu and porygon2 shut it down with eerie impulse. Lapras best partners are with bulky restricted pokemon like zacian creating the core known as LapDog. Kartana exists with crit leaf blades cutting through its screens but even av Kartana isn't enjoying a G-max resonance. Lapras deserves to be at one of the top spots right now, much of the VGC community understands how strong Lapras are.


Any thoughts? This is my understanding of the metagame right now so, share your opinions!

 

[Bananers]

A->S
This pokemon is stupid, 130 hp and already solid defenses are one thing, then we got doubled hp AND a powerful stab move with aurora veil?
For sure S tier hands down, zacian is getting stopped by its tracks because of Incineroar and LapDog is still amazing. Heck, even av Thundy is used just to take Lapras. Intimidate is already stupidly helpful for Lapras, so Lapras is literally the definition of bulky. Kartana exists with crit leaf blades cutting through its screens but even av Kartana isn't enjoying a G-max resonance. Lapras deserves to be at one of the top spots right now, much of the VGC community understands how strong Lapras are.

I disagree here. This mon is good at setting screens and being bulky sure, but 85 offensive stats are absolute horseshit. So it needs an item to boost its moves right? Well then it loses the screen duration and 5 turns isn't a whole lot when you consider that many of those turns are used to support Lapras with fake out, rage powder, etc. Not to mention, it absolutely hates the rise of AV Thundy and Eerie Impulse P2, both pretty self explanatory why they are bad for pras. To add on to all of this, Lapras is really only good on LapDog, I haven't seen a single other team with Lapras do well.

I used to use LapDog a lot, but then I started to realize how it was flawed, then I realized that it really should be called LandDog because Lando-T carries it (look at my week 2 Dodrio Cup set for reference). In my recent nom post I was heavily considering moving Lapras down to A-, but I decided against it. But now that I think about it more, yeah I am gonna do that nom.

Lapras A->A-​

 

[Bananers]

Glad to see a lot of my noms being official :)

 

[Walrain]

Tapu Fini: A -> B+

Tapu Fini is a good mon this format, but I think putting it in A tier is a bit too much for it. Other mons in A tier include things like Calyrex-Ice and Yveltal, and I simply don't think Fini is as versatile or as good as the mons in A tier. I think moving it down to B+ is a better spot as it's about as viable as Gothitelle and Rotom-Heat in the current format.

Celesteela B -> C/C+

Celesteela is just Ferrothorn with a worse typing. Both the leech seed & offensive sets gets messed up by common threats such as Regieleki, Thundurus, and both sets are outclassed as well. Ferrothorn & Regiesteel does its job way better as a stall mon, and the offensive set gets beat out by other steels such as Metagross and the lions. The only time it isn't strictly outclassed is when it's on Sun teams, where there are plenty of ways to bypass its electric weakness, and even then Ferrothorn gives it competition, which is why I think it should drop to C/C+.

 

[zee]

ok here's that post player's cup update thing I was talking about from before. I would like to bring up these as discussion points but if no one has any disagreements they'll be considered official whenever I implement shifts

A+ -> A- has a hard time keeping up with power creep and special attackers. generally venusaur or rillaboom can provide a lot of grass-type utility and this format doesn't really require a steel on your team

A -> A+ one time Aaron Traylor told me "Kyogre always starts out strong but Groudon will always come out on top" and with the recent metagame trends heavily favoring sun archetypes we've definitely seen this to be the case. at 10 out of 64 player's cup qualifier teams it has over 15% of restricted usage, only behind Kyogre and Zacian-C

A -> A+ absolutely dominated players cup, stabs + weather ball set is incredibly strong and the value of sleep moves is way higher when the threats you're sleeping are more dangerous

A -> A- yeah I know I just bumped two of these guys but after seeing their player's cup usage I'm pretty convinced their hype has died down. hard to justify using over zacian/(not)primals/calyrexes which are looking like the big 5 of this meta

A -> B fini usage has PLUMMETED and its rank needs to reflect that. its supportive set got nerfed really hard with its Dynamax interactions and CM fini just can't keep up with the power creep :/

B- -> B+/A- one of the few reliable trick roomers and a solid p2 alternative that actually has an item slot

C+ -> A- once again coal has awakened from its basement just in time for player's cup. every time people think this mon dies it finds a way to come back, and it's looking pretty good right now as a lot of zacian teams in particular struggle with it if they can't get speed control going

UR -> B Sableye has shown to be a pretty reliable support option for a while now, with access to weather moves and quash it's really easy to slide on in tandem with something like Charizard

& swap - one had player's cup appearances and the other didn't

In order to declutter the VR I already did a wipe of Pokemon on it that see little to no metagame usage. C rank has been consolidated because of this. I also moved restricted Pokemon seeing little to no usage back to D rank. If there's anything else you'd like to see unranked now is the time to nominate it

 

[yuki]

Gonna agree with all of zee's opinions but also throw in 1 more suggestion that I'd like to see implemented potentially:

A- -> B/B-
No representation in the Players Cup top cuts, and really it's extremely underwhelming as a mon. I don't see this thing being ranked as high as it is, especially with better mons ranked lower than it in my opinion. It has an okay Airstream, and can work in certain circumstances, but it's desperate for a WP boost to not hit like a noodle.

I would also consider Zacian-C to S again, because it's just never really doing badly and I think you can't ever go wrong by picking it. But that's up in the air.

 

[AustinXX555]

C+ -> A- once again coal has awakened from its basement just in time for player's cup. every time people think this mon dies it finds a way to come back, and it's looking pretty good right now as a lot zacian teams in particular struggle with it if they can't get speed control going

Not even the strongest pokemon of our time could bring down its wrath. Long Live Coalossal's reign. May the memes born from its destruction be glorious.

 

[Bananers]

Gastrodon C -> B

I always liked Gastro but it never had the results to move up imo. But now with PC results, there was a surprisingly good amount of Gastro in the top 16's. So now with those results confirming my thoughts, I think Gastro should move up to B. It's defensive typing is really good, especially because Kartana is falling off and Rilla has been getting less and less usage. With its typing plus storm drain it can wall many good mons. Lapras, Kyogre, Dialga, and the Psychic/Steel bros (unless they decide they want a psychic move) are all great examples. Yawn and Recover can be annoying and Ice Beam + Earth power is really good coverage. So yeah, like i said, B tier mon in my opnion.

 

[holtbiusmac]

Where did you guys get the PC3 teams from? Can't see anything on the forum.

 

[Bananers]

Where did you guys get the PC3 teams from? Can't see anything on the forum.

Twitter and also the VGC Discord

 

[starman02]

B-->A-
How in the world is this thing in the same cathegory as some really niche pokemon like torkoal,togekiss and hitmontop.
IMO ferrothorn needs to be at least A- ; it becomes absolutely unkillable in a lapdog team and it's so incredibly polarizing in team preview that you will know what your opponent will bring 100% of the time, the iron defense/leech seed/ body press/ protect set is top tier stuff
The only weakness that it has (apart from the very rare flamethrowers from inci and talon) is that it needs the lapdog core to be consistent

 

[Giokio]

I'm also unsure where the notion that it being required on Zacian + Lapras is coming from, considering that of its 3 player's cup top 16 runs, 0 of them were with Zacian

It is probably because Francesco Pardini started the trend with its team, a really strong Lap Dog with a ferrothorn in it, You could see it everywhere last week but I don’t know how it is now. Also, I kind of agree with you for not rising it, but togekiss should probably be lowered and Top too

 

[starman02]

Hello and welcome to the forum! I disagree with this nomination quite a bit, so allow me to explain.

Iron Defense Ferrothorn aims to win endgame scenarios in which the opponent cannot touch it as they are left with only physical attackers. It generally runs into a few problems though:

1. Special attackers such as Charizard, Weather Ball Venusaur, Calyrex-Shadow, Zapdos, Torkoal, etc, must be removed before it can get going
2. Sacred Sword users, namely Zacian and Kartana, will bypass Ferrothorn's Defense Boosts and can significantly chunk it. This also applies to something like Urshifu's Wicked Blow
3. It's prone to double targets, especially from max moves. Setup in doubles usually has a hard time because you're constantly staring down the threat of double targets, and Ferrothorn is no different
4. It offers little to no team support value. Yeah, Ferrothorn just sets up. It's not something you can build around really, because of its flaws and limitations, and conversely, it does not doing a good job of supporting... any partner really.
5. critical hits are a thing. ouch.

Generally if you see a Pokemon in a tier and think "oh man there's no way this Pokemon should be here with that Pokemon and those Pokemon", you should ask yourself if maybe... those Pokemon to deserve to drop, in which case I'd be more than willing to hear your arguments for dropping Togekiss and Hitmontop, no chance on Torkoal though. Honestly it should probably rise.

I'm also unsure where the notion that it being required on Zacian + Lapras is coming from, considering that of its 3 player's cup top 16 runs, 0 of them were with Zacian

thanks for the answer and sorry if i sounded rude, i agree withyour points, but i still think that ferrothorn is to good to be in the same tier as top and togekiss, so IMO those two should be lowered

 

[Bananers]

Torkoal B -> B+/A-

This thing defo needs a rise. Koal is an excellent alternative to Groudon for teams wanting to run Zacian-C on their sun team. Sun, both Torkoal and Groudon sun, dominated Players Cup 3. Standard Sun, Dual Weather Sun, heck even Stonjourner sun (lol) was able too find a place in top cut. Torkoals has been proven to be an amazing pick through PC3, and like mentioned above is much better than Hitmontop and Togekiss which is in the same tier as it. So yeah, B+ or A-.

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

Hello, I am already someone who has been around since I started the goal, and I would like to correct some things:

Ho-oH (-A> + B): At this point I do not doubt that hooh is good at resisting on the special side, but seeing the rest, it is not that it was the best option if you want to hit very hard, many of us already know that 130 is not enough for the goal, add to the fact that incinereor intimidates him once, and everything he intended goes to the pipe, be careful, it is not bad, it just sticks like a torn paper.

Xerneas (B> -B): If you have already seen the teams with this "" Damsel "", I don't think it is so remarkable, its geocontrol strategy is predictable, also add that Rillaboom and other pokemon learn disarmament, they take away the The only object that she uses, added to the fact that there are already pokemon such as Zacian, Solgaleo and Necrozma Melena, which when seeing her, they leave her totally lost, she cannot face these monsters, what's more, for it to work, almost the entire team must be at so much of this, even low-tier pokemon, don't depend to the extreme on someone to shine.

Celestella (A> -A): Celestella is fine for teams that you want to use, other than Scarmori, but the real problem with this pokemon is that there is a pokemon that does its job, but more consistent, yep, Ferrothom, it will have a weakness x4, but it makes up for it with good resistances, and it looks very good with rain gear, something in which Celestella is somewhat inconsistent, it is slow, yes, but Ferrothom, fulfills its work in a more productive way, and a wall that is difficult to overthrow

 

[Bananers]

Hello, I am already someone who has been around since I started the goal, and I would like to correct some things:

Ho-oH (-A> + B): At this point I do not doubt that hooh is good at resisting on the special side, but seeing the rest, it is not that it was the best option if you want to hit very hard, many of us already know that 130 is not enough for the goal, add to the fact that incinereor intimidates him once, and everything he intended goes to the pipe, be careful, it is not bad, it just sticks like a torn paper.

Xerneas (B> -B): If you have already seen the teams with this "" Damsel "", I don't think it is so remarkable, its geocontrol strategy is predictable, also add that Rillaboom and other pokemon learn disarmament, they take away the The only object that she uses, added to the fact that there are already pokemon such as Zacian, Solgaleo and Necrozma Melena, which when seeing her, they leave her totally lost, she cannot face these monsters, what's more, for it to work, almost the entire team must be at so much of this, even low-tier pokemon, don't depend to the extreme on someone to shine.

Celestella (A> -A): Celestella is fine for teams that you want to use, other than Scarmori, but the real problem with this pokemon is that there is a pokemon that does its job, but more consistent, yep, Ferrothom, it will have a weakness x4, but it makes up for it with good resistances, and it looks very good with rain gear, something in which Celestella is somewhat inconsistent, it is slow, yes, but Ferrothom, fulfills its work in a more productive way, and a wall that is difficult to overthrow

I mean I agree with your noms but I don't understand much of what you are trying to say. Also CSteela is B tier

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

I mean I agree with your noms but I don't understand much of what you are trying to say. Also CSteela is B tier

Well, yes, I do not want to lower it or something to Cellestela, the problem is that the Meta is very hyperagressive, and having other flying types (Moltres Galar) and Steel types (Metagross), it is seen that this little thing, is something else niche, and not that I say it's bad, it will be fine with teams with incinereor or even Thundurus, but I feel that she is better in Goals where there are no major Legendary pokemon or an environment where everyone is focused on the Greatest Pokemon they chose.

 

[Helios of Sun]

Hi! I am new to the forums and would like to provide some thoughts on the metagame right now

Zacian (A+ > S)
Zacian has been an absolute menace on every team it is on, and for good reason. An attack that does double damage from a mon that naturally has +1 Attack (due to Intrepid Sword) to Dynamaxed mons has been shown to not be easy to deal with whatsoever, and with the right coverage, can kill many strong mons in the metagame with a Helping Hand boost. This has shown in the results of the Players Cup 3 Playoffs, where one quarter (4) of the teams that has made Global Finals included a Zacian.

Celeestela (B > B-)
Celeestela is certainly not on the level of mons such as Ferrothorn, Palkia and Cinderace and its rank needs to reflect that. With it being almost directly a worse Ferrothorn, I don't think there is a reason as to why it should be B.

Kingdra (C > B)
With the current meta favouring sun as a great option, I really do think that Kingdra is now given a chance to shine. With the number of mons it can score KOs with a Life Orbed Max Geyser or Max Wyrmwind, I think this is a criminally underrated Pokemon that can do extremely well if it is given better setup such as Rain Dance Sableye or Tornadus.

Lapras (A > A-)
Lapras is a mon that is great at setting up Aurora Veil but really, it is only fantastic at that one job. When SpA drops are thrown at this mon, the damage output that comes out of Lapras really does not justify Dynamaxing it, and in many scenarios, it can end up being deadweight for the team.

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

Although to be positive, not everything is negative, there also some monsters should go up, or at least be more recognized:

Rillaboom (+ A / S): I am very unwavering, since Rillaboom is very good since I entered, it has good ability, good stats, coverage, it is viable in rare space, it is a good support, you know, this mon is a kind incinereor, but of a plant type, and very good, together with incino are the fake out brothers, although I'm still wondering whether to upload it or have it there for a good check with kyogre.

Zacian crowned (+ A / S): OMG, this swordsman outclassed Xerneas in all aspects, it is the same as Rillaboom, but this pokemon is more physical attacking, and one of the most effective, that without charging that it is the most consistent So far, I have surpassed MegaRayquaza in several respects. But the question is the same, I am undecided if they should put it to "S", because, tell me in which team does it fit? , This Swordsman is brutal in all standards, that the posivilidad of being in "S" are high

Regarding the Low Tiers of -C or D, the truth is that I do not think that all those should be so low personally, Kyurem base and calyrex base (No comment), Giratina in its 2 forms is Outclassed by calyrex shadow, the same Lunala and Necrozma and Wings of oblivion, Reshiram has potential, Zekrom I see it regular, Black Kyurem is better in singles, and Zamacenta is between mediocre or Regular

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

I know that what I said a few hours ago, VARIOUS I do not agree, but the reason that I see "" Expectations "" to these mons, is the following:

-Zekrom does better in singles, and no one is going to deny it, it is the best of that format, but your Achilles heel is that, the double combats, it will have some niches against Kyogre, even if it is constant the pokemon with lightning rods .. I have ...

-Kyurem Negro, I don't have much to say here, since it's the same, only this mon, incredibly it's the same as Zekrom + which in this generation is finally UBER + The most barbed Movepool it has, is more lethal in singles x2 .

Now it's time to talk about Reshiram (What I will put is so that we can debate and reach a conclusion)

Reshiram had difficulties throughout the years, although it was not a problem Xerneas, we already know what happened, The Primal Forms destroyed him, and at most he had niches to beat MegaRayquaza, but meh.

But now in this generation, NO more Primal Forms, NO more Mega Evolutions, now you can go back to how it was in the 5th generation.
Reshiram has a movepool, well, it is not the eighth wonder of the world but it is necessary: Living Earth, Blue Flame, Coneta Draco, Shadow Ball, Sunlight, Dragon Pulse, Psychic, Focus Blast, etc. Now they will tell me "" But Wow, White Kyurem also has that, he has 170 special attack and 95 speed "" and they are right, but there are 2 things that make the difference. 1- White Kyurem only uses ice, dragon, fire and rarely earth cover. In addition, it gives Reshiram the opportunity to take better advantage of it.

2-Currently the Fighting and Sinister Types no longer fear fairies, many of them have a covering of steel and poison, ah Reshiram does not do much to him, but to White Kyurem, it is His Nightmare! , Add that it has very common weaknesses to Rock, Steel, Fight, which is a very vulnerable pokemon to Urshifu's critical hits and other fight and Steel like Metagross or Solgaleo (Very Common). Reshiram has at least a Decent 100 physical and 120 special defenses, so with 252HP in Ev, it will resist several of its weaknesses, with and without dinamax, which Kyurem White unfortunately cannot do. In addition to the supposed "Resistance" to the water type, which I have come to prove, and the truth is that I see it as an ornament, Kyogre will Ignore it and destroy this mon with ease, at least with Reshiram if he can survive with the Assault Vest Variant.

This video from a Legacy Legion company, showed that Reshiram has potential, and perhaps rival the "" White Form "", also that Reshiram is one of the few decent pokemon to use Safe Weakness, and wrestle with everything that is see you as you go. White Kyurem is not that he is bad, the problem is that Urshifu and the steel types threaten to leave him Psychos for life, which reshiram does not affect. And add that Reshiram is a more Consistent Check of Zacian, Solgaleo, Necrozma Melena and Zamacenta. I think Reshiram should give it a try. In my point of view it should be (Rank C) and if it manages to improve, "" It will probably reach Rank -B "", if it does.

 

[AustinXX555]

I know that what I said a few hours ago, VARIOUS I do not agree, but the reason that I see "" Expectations "" to these mons, is the following:

-Zekrom does better in singles, and no one is going to deny it, it is the best of that format, but your Achilles heel is that, the double combats, it will have some niches against Kyogre, even if it is constant the pokemon with lightning rods .. I have ...

-Kyurem Negro, I don't have much to say here, since it's the same, only this mon, incredibly it's the same as Zekrom + which in this generation is finally UBER + The most barbed Movepool it has, is more lethal in singles x2 .

Now it's time to talk about Reshiram (What I will put is so that we can debate and reach a conclusion)

Reshiram had difficulties throughout the years, although it was not a problem Xerneas, we already know what happened, The Primal Forms destroyed him, and at most he had niches to beat MegaRayquaza, but meh.

But now in this generation, NO more Primal Forms, NO more Mega Evolutions, now you can go back to how it was in the 5th generation.
Reshiram has a movepool, well, it is not the eighth wonder of the world but it is necessary: Living Earth, Blue Flame, Coneta Draco, Shadow Ball, Sunlight, Dragon Pulse, Psychic, Focus Blast, etc. Now they will tell me "" But Wow, White Kyurem also has that, he has 170 special attack and 95 speed "" and they are right, but there are 2 things that make the difference. 1- White Kyurem only uses ice, dragon, fire and rarely earth cover. In addition, it gives Reshiram the opportunity to take better advantage of it.

2-Currently the Fighting and Sinister Types no longer fear fairies, many of them have a covering of steel and poison, ah Reshiram does not do much to him, but to White Kyurem, it is His Nightmare! , Add that it has very common weaknesses to Rock, Steel, Fight, which is a very vulnerable pokemon to Urshifu's critical hits and other fight and Steel like Metagross or Solgaleo (Very Common). Reshiram has at least a Decent 100 physical and 120 special defenses, so with 252HP in Ev, it will resist several of its weaknesses, with and without dinamax, which Kyurem White unfortunately cannot do. In addition to the supposed "Resistance" to the water type, which I have come to prove, and the truth is that I see it as an ornament, Kyogre will Ignore it and destroy this mon with ease, at least with Reshiram if he can survive with the Assault Vest Variant.

This video from a Legacy Legion company, showed that Reshiram has potential, and perhaps rival the "" White Form "", also that Reshiram is one of the few decent pokemon to use Safe Weakness, and wrestle with everything that is see you as you go. White Kyurem is not that he is bad, the problem is that Urshifu and the steel types threaten to leave him Psychos for life, which reshiram does not affect. And add that Reshiram is a more Consistent Check of Zacian, Solgaleo, Necrozma Melena and Zamacenta. I think Reshiram should give it a try. In my point of view it should be (Rank C) and if it manages to improve, "" It will probably reach Rank -B "", if it does.

I have... a couple problems with this, grammar aside

For starters, most of your points don't even address how Reshiram does against the current meta. You spend most of your time comparing Reshiram to a restricted that isn't even in A tier, and you don't address anything regarding any of the meta restricteds including Kyogre and Groudon (and saying "primals are gone" doesn't count because they don't need them to kick the shit out of Reshiram). And regarding it vs White Kyurem. S8 only gives you one restricted slot to use, so that pokemon NEEDS to play a vital role one way or another. Kyurem White gives a hard hitting Ice STAB, which alone is valuable with all of the Flying and Grass types in the meta, along with ground types like Lando and Groudon.

Speaking of rivals, you also don't even try to bring up easily Reshiram's biggest competition, Charizard. Charizard gives STAB Airstream, a higher base speed, and an arguably better ability all without using your one restricted slot. So please explain why anyone should use Reshiram over Charizard.

Finally, two things to say about the video. 1: This is YOUR youtube channel, not "a Legacy Legion company" or whatever the crap. It literally has the same pfp as you. 2: The replays you used are anything but convincing. A small handful of matches literally means squat when it comes to a pokemon's viability, especially when said replays were done in 1000-1200 elo. If you're gonna make an argument for it, link a Reshiram team that someone used to get high on ladder or far in a tourney with.

 

[Bananers]

guys i thnk that weevile shood rise. i like it alot and it doz damag wch is gud. no 0ne usses it bcuz thy r metaslaves, buut iz rlly gud guyz just try it >:(
( happy April fools, in reality, I think Mamoswine should rise to C+. It is a really good anti-meta pick right now with coalossal and Groudon becoming popular, both of which it has great matchups with.)

 

[Prinz]

I'll do some small talk

I feel like Palkia should be much higher, it is as least as good as Dialga, if not better. Palkia/grimm/ferrothorn teams are def good rn and much better than solgaleo team / necrozma teams

Rillaboom should be lower, I think A rank is better for it. Ho Oh should drop a bunch of ranks, it isn't clearly as good as things like Coal / Dragapult, and Zapdos should drop a rank too

Hitmontop is a trash mon that belongs to E rank, it never sees usage in both ladder / tours. Zekrom is a niche mon but it should be a bit higher, like B-. It's hard to build around it, but with the right partners it can put a lot of work

Kyurem-W should be higher too, probably like B. Very good matchup into sun / rain, and it still can beat most zacian teams with the right support
If you wanna see a very solid kyurem build, go here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377411293867466752

Also I'd remove most of D ranked mons from the list: things like Necrozma, unfused Calyrex, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, and Kyurem black never saw usage in both ladder and tours. I'd keep Lunala in D because someone was successful with it on SD ladder, Rayquaza in D because you can see it sometimes on ladder (I guess it has a small niche vs sun), Zamazenta and Giratina. Reshiram is a bit better than both Rayquaza and Lunala, so I'd give it a C rank. Giratina origin is good on paper as well, but you better use Dragapult and not waste your restricted on it, so it should be unranked

Mewtwo should be unranked too