Scolipede

[Brambane]

Rock Slide > Poison Jab on offensive sets imo

Without Rock Slide, the likes of Golbat, Altaria and Pelipper, in addition to other Scolipede, can come in and KO/force out Scolipede. Also, running Stealth Rock is a MUST if you want to stand a chance at OHKOing physically defensive Altaria, which is one of the better Scolipede checks.

 

[Explorer]

You're probably right, but Scolipede is basically the jack-of-all-trades: a hazard lead, a status spreader (T-spikes and Poison Point), a Choice Bander, a Pursuit trapper, or it can go with the Sash + Endeavor (sadly I wrote an analysis for this when it was in RU and it was rejected). Plus STAB Megahorn rocks this metagame.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Rock Slide > Poison Jab on offensive sets imo

Without Rock Slide, the likes of Golbat, Altaria and Pelipper, in addition to other Scolipede, can come in and KO/force out Scolipede. Also, running Stealth Rock is a MUST if you want to stand a chance at OHKOing physically defensive Altaria, which is one of the better Scolipede checks.

While Rock Slide could make a nice secondary slash to beat these mons, I don't think that just these 3 are worth the loss of an additional STAB attack, especially since none of them are particularly common. Also, running SR is generally a must anyways so I don't think you should phrase it as if needing SR to KO Altaria is an extraordinary amount of support.

Also, I think spinners might be a bit more common due to people rushing to try out the new drops, but I don't think that they're any more necessary than they were before. People make a big deal out of Scolipede's spikesetting ability but people forget that Garbodor was also easily able to set up 1-2 layers of spikes consistently, but most teams never needed to have a spinner or something to deal with spikestacking teams. While Scolipede does have mroe Speed (Garbodor has a higher Attack so Scolipede w/o SD won't have more offensive presence), it's also not too good defensively so it won't find it any easier to set up hazards against most teams, so while Scolipede is definitely a good spiker, these claims about Garbodor being completely outclassed are unfounded.

 

[Infernis]

Theoretically, many people have said that Scolipede will check or even counter Sawk. I've found that Expert Belt Sawk can just roll right over Scolipede. Stone Edge is a OHKO on all but the bulkiest, and bulkier variants don't have the hitting power to kill Sawk in less than three Earthquakes. Switched into a Close Combat, sure, Scolipede won't take that much damage, but it's enough to guarantee a OHKO on the next turn from Stone Edge. Literally nothing Life Orb offensive Scolipede has can deal more than ~55% (at max!) to an uninvested Sawk. Sawk with a mind for anti-metagame shenanigans can use an EV spread of...

252 Atk
100-112 Def (100 is less than 1% chance to 2HKO, 112 guarantees it)
152-164 Spe

I'd personally use 252 Atk/100 Def/164 Spe to at least speed tie with non-swift-swim max speed Seismitoad. You could tweak it a little more for beating him all the time, but max speed Seismitoad is rare anyway. Otherwise, you're still outspeeding Bibarel (base 74) and below. Even after a Swords Dance, a healthy Bulky Sawk can revenge kill even through some spikes damage.

 

[NfskMjmMal]

While Rock Slide could make a nice secondary slash to beat these mons, I don't think that just these 3 are worth the loss of an additional STAB attack, especially since none of them are particularly common. Also, running SR is generally a must anyways so I don't think you should phrase it as if needing SR to KO Altaria is an extraordinary amount of support.

Poison STAB isn't that effective in conjunction with Bug STAB. There are 3 types that Poison does better against than Bug does: Fighting, Fire, and Flying. Rock hits two of those super-effectively, and doing a little better against Fighting-types is nowhere near worth the coverage that Rock Slide provides. It's NU - teams should have something better to take on Fighting-types than Scolipede.

Golbat, Altaria, and Pelipper aren't the only 3 that are hit the hardest by Rock Slide. Out of all Pokes legal in NU, there are several dozen who are hit hardest by Rock Slide (over Megahorn, Earthquake, and Poison Jab), mainly Flying-types. As far as more common Pokes go, there's also Braviary, Haunter, Rotom-F, Charizard, Drifblim, and Ninjask, among others.

 

[DragonBorn]

As great as this Pokemon is i have a hunch it will be moved back up to RU as it will dominate the tier ^^

I also think the Choice Band set will be his greatest

Scolipede@Choice Band
Trait:Swarm
Nature:Jolly
Ev:252 Atk/252 Spe
-Megahorn
-Pursuit/Aqua Tail/Double Edge
-Earthquake
-Superpower

With a Jolly nature and max speed evs, this guy faces almost no challenge in the Nu tier speed wise, as there are few with close to his speed or higher, Ninjask being the only one higher that i can remember. Earthquake is for the Fire , Rock/Steel, and is also its best way of hitting Frillish. Pursuit is to hit Misdrevious and other Levitating Ghost harder than anything else and to revenge kill weakened foes trying to switch out and Tangelas and Alomomolas trying to get regenerator recovery. Superpower is mostly for normal types, but will hit Rock/Steels harder than earthquake but your better of EQing them due to the stat drops from Superpower. Aqua tail is only mentioned as it is Scolipedes best way to deal with Weezing besides Double-Edge which is a strong attack that with the rest of its moves rounds off its nuetral coverage.

Here's some examples of what it can do to the tier
Physically Defensive Tangela
252 Atk Choice Band Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 200-236 (60.06 - 70.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

One of the best Physical walls are 2hkod by Megahorn and 37.5 chance to OHKO if in Swarm range.

Physically defensive Miltank

252 Atk Choice Band Swarm Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Miltank: 262-309 (66.49 - 78.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Miltank is 2hkod by Megahorn and only proves just how insanely hard this thing hits with a choice banded Megahorn

Physically Defensive Metang
252 Atk Choice Band Swarm Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Metang: 165-195 (50.92 - 60.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Metang is 2hkod and he has 150base defense with Eviolite!

And last but not least the most forgotten physical wall(or atleast the one i see less often)

Physically Defensive Weezing
252 Atk Choice Band Swarm Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 109-129 (32.63 - 38.62%) -- 5.1% chance to 3HKO

And sadly this thing just downright walls this thing. Megahorn is his best shot at taking Weezing down and he can barely 3hko

But from those calcs, you can see that some of the most mightiest walls of NU can crumple like a leaf under this Bugs Megahorn

Also rock slide gets a mention as it allows it to hit Pokemon such as Golnat harder than Double-Edge would.

 

[Deesu]

Physically Defensive Weezing
252 Atk Choice Band Swarm Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 109-129 (32.63 - 38.62%) -- 5.1% chance to 3HKO

And sadly this thing just downright walls this thing. Megahorn is his best shot at taking Weezing down and he can barely 3hko

But from those calcs, you can see that some of the most mightiest walls of NU can crumple like a leaf under this Bugs Megahorn

Also rock slide gets a mention as it allows it to hit Pokemon such as Golnat harder than Double-Edge would.

So what other special pokemon walls this beast? The only one I can think off the top of my head is Misdreavus.

 

[Punchshroom]

One could try Solid Rock Carracosta.

 

[Aasgier]

Weezing also walls Scolipede, but that's it, basically...

 

[Audiosurfer]

Poison STAB isn't that effective in conjunction with Bug STAB. There are 3 types that Poison does better against than Bug does: Fighting, Fire, and Flying. Rock hits two of those super-effectively, and doing a little better against Fighting-types is nowhere near worth the coverage that Rock Slide provides. It's NU - teams should have something better to take on Fighting-types than Scolipede.

Golbat, Altaria, and Pelipper aren't the only 3 that are hit the hardest by Rock Slide. Out of all Pokes legal in NU, there are several dozen who are hit hardest by Rock Slide (over Megahorn, Earthquake, and Poison Jab), mainly Flying-types. As far as more common Pokes go, there's also Braviary, Haunter, Rotom-F, Charizard, Drifblim, and Ninjask, among others.

Either Megahorn or Aqua Tail lets Scolipede OHKO all of those at +2 but Braviary, Drifblim, and Ninjask (who are 2HKOd by those moves) and Aqua Tail means that you can hit Golurk as well, which is probably more important than hitting Ninjask or Drifblim, so although I agree Rock Slide is > PJab, neither of those are the best option to use alongside Megahorn.

 

[Infernis]

I did some practice runs today, and learned a few things. For one, Golurk walls the hell out of any Scolipede without Aqua Tail. For another, Scarf Primeape and Scarf Sawk will wreck Scolipede's shit with Stone Edge. He's a damn useful spiker, but I haven't seen him outright dominate a match yet.

 

[Hot N Cold]

This set is the best in my opinion.

Also this set help with mons that run Magic Coat for example Bastiodon or against mon that runs Sucker Punch because if your Scolipede is just weak they'll try to beat with Sucker Punch then you can use Spikes in this turns (in this sense like SubSD Scolipede but supporting your team).
Good temmates are mons like Sawk that usually prevent Stealth Rock or Rotom-S to beat mainly flying types that usually beat this coverage Megahorn + EQ such Drifblim or Braviary, then you're so good to go.

 

[Mack the Knife]

That Psychic weakness is going to be a pain though, means it can never switch in on Musharna or Gardevoir.

 

[Punchshroom]

Scolipede's speed advantage does mean that if it gets in on the aforementioned Psychics safely (Calm Mind/Heal Bell/Signal Beam from Musharna or Focus Blast/Signal Beam/Trick from Gardevoir), it can gain the upper hand.

 

[Alonsoforever]

I think Scolipede is too good for this tier. This is because of its versatility, it can do many things really well. It's really hard to stop Scolipede at its job, that's why I think it should be banned to BL3.

I've faced the new NU Pokémon Primeape, Scolipede and Jynx a few times (Munchlax only once) after the drop, and, while Primeape and Jynx are troublesome, they are great Pokémon, they don't reach Scolipede, which always gives so much trouble, either by using a Swords Dance set or by setting Spikes+Toxic Spikes.

Scolipede makes that every team that wants to be competitive need to carry, or a Spinner (and the ones that are in NU aren't very good and are susceptible to all hazards) or at least a Poison-type to absorb the Toxic Spikes (Scolipede, Roselia...)

I want Scolipede out of the tier, it's just above every NU Pokémon.

 

[erisia]

This set is the best in my opinion.

Also this set help with mons that run Magic Coat for example Bastiodon or against mon that runs Sucker Punch because if your Scolipede is just weak they'll try to beat with Sucker Punch then you can use Spikes in this turns (in this sense like SubSD Scolipede but supporting your team).
Good temmates are mons like Sawk that usually prevent Stealth Rock or Rotom-S to beat mainly flying types that usually beat this coverage Megahorn + EQ such Drifblim or Braviary, then you're so good to go.

I'd agree with this statement, although I generally use Aqua Tail over Earthquake. It's weird how often people will switch in stuff like Golurk or Golem to check Scolipede, only to find themselves OHKO'd by +2 Aqua Tail most of the time.

Also, is it just me or does Scolipede have a buttload of great coverage moves? You've got Megahorn and Poison Jab for STAB, and that's followed up by stuff like Earthquake, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Rock Slide... Scolipede has a load of offensive options.

 

[Punchshroom]

That's what makes it so dangerous. That 4MSS is helping no one when one usually only has a single answer to non-Aqua Tail / non-EQ / non-Rock Slide Pede on a team (aside from Misdreavus and Weezing, who counters all three). To top it off, Pede can set up Spikes or/and Swords Dances on NU's top physical wall, Alomomola, due to its immunity to Toxic.

Hell, that alone is enough to make me consider Scald Alomomola, even though it sucks vs pretty much everything else and doesn't really stop hazards Pede.

 

[watashi]

the thing about scald alomomola is that it needs a lot of investment to break subsalac scolipede's subs. without any evs, it only has about a 25% chance to break them, meaning scolipede can set up and ohko with a +4 megahorn in swarm range. its also pretty shaky anyways since it doesn't burn all the time so i would just stick to weezing, missy, or golbat to try and counter scolipede. alomomola isn't really good in this metagame with all the jynx and scolipede running around.

 

[Robust Raichu]

Pardon me, I'm new, but is there any word on if this beast has been suspected yet?

In my opinion, in the NU tier, with flawed Spinners, Spikes usage have been balanced by also having to be set up by relatively flawed Pokemon. This thing with one of the fastest speeds in the tier, outspeeds taunt, threatens SD sweeps or passes, and its ability to be used throughout the tiers I think clearly suggests it is not a flawed Pokemon. I play NU because I enjoyed the somewhat more diverse metagame, but this thing is a centralizing nightmare.

 

[Infernis]

Is it? I find that it's actually pretty easy to deal with. Loads and loads of Pokemon can stop it from getting more than one layer of spikes down, and you can straight up shut it down with...

An extraordinarily fast Taunt from Sneasel, Electrode, Floatzel, Persian, Swoobat, Serperior, or Prankster Liepard/Murkrow

A clean OHKO from anything faster. (Scarfers, Ebelt Ninjask, etc.)

Natu hangin' out.

Any sort of Magic Coat. (Kecleon, Grumpig, Girafarig, etc.)

A team that doesn't need to switch a lot

A Scolipede counter and a rapid spinner.

It's not too hard to include one of those.

 

[Kierany9]

I really want to talk about how much of a threat scolipede is but to be honest I don't have any trouble dealing with it. Scolipede has a lot of weaknesses from both its Bug and Poison side, with few resistances from one canceling weaknesses on the other. You just hammer it down with neutral or SE attacks. Also, a lot of pokemon can easily OHKO or 2HKO it, while Scolipede can't do that much back. Scolipede is frail on the special side, meaning a good Psychic can easily score an OHKO. In fact, most neutral special attacks 2HKO it.
It's vertasility is huge, but it's never safe from something that can defeat it. Letting a Pokemon set up is the stupidest thing anybody can do, and that's one of Scolipede's advantages: speed. Swords Dance on turn one, wreck everything on turn two. Fortunately the most common set is spikes. Garbodor gets up spikes and can actually live to see another day. Scolipede is only good in an offensive team if you really want hazards.

 

[JCM.]

Is it? I find that it's actually pretty easy to deal with. Loads and loads of Pokemon can stop it from getting more than one layer of spikes down, and you can straight up shut it down with...

An extraordinarily fast Taunt from Sneasel, Electrode, Floatzel, Persian, Swoobat, Serperior, or Prankster Liepard/Murkrow

A clean OHKO from anything faster. (Scarfers, Ebelt Ninjask, etc.)

Natu hangin' out.

Any sort of Magic Coat. (Kecleon, Grumpig, Girafarig, etc.)

A team that doesn't need to switch a lot

A Scolipede counter and a rapid spinner.

It's not too hard to include one of those.

That's pretty irrelevant. In your first part where you speak of Taunters, the problem isn't that those Pokemon are extremely rare and irrelevant in the current metagame, MOST OF THEM don't even run Taunt on their standard sets! Electrode, Serperior and Liepard are the only ones that actually run Taunt, and the only relevant one outside of the ladder is Serperior. And even then, it's better to Megahorn than Spikes versus it.

Ok, it is true that it gets cleanly OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by anything that is faster than it. You're not teaching me anything here. But what bothers me is that every time when someone mentions Jynx, Primeape or Scolipede, you have to mention your fucking Expert Belt Ninjask. I'm pretty sure you're one of the only persons that actually use that because : | Expert Belt 5.411% |. I'm not even going to take in account because it's so rare, and it will only be seen in the ladder, if not only versus YOU.

Natu ? [12:41] <%TIBot> #128 in NU | Usage: 0.98356% ...
That is false. I don't see it hanging around, actually last time I saw it in use was when FLCL was theorymonning about using it! It takes more than half from Megahorn from the standard Spiker, and then it is outsped and killed. Another irrelevant point..

Oh, so now we're speaking of teams, or playstyles, that don't switch out a lot?

rain.......................... 4.62801%
trickroom..................... 0.61279%

Yeah... But now I'm wrong, because Rain is actually good, and strong players actually use it! But I think you're forgetting that Scolipede gets Toxic Spikes, one of the best ways to deal with Rain Offense.

Now your Scolipede counter / check point is probably the most relevant (and the only relevant) point in your whole argument. Until you mention Rapid Spin in NU. The Rapid Spinners in this tier are awful, and the best imo would be Wartortle, which isn't that easy to incorporate in your team.

 

[Infernis]

Quit acting like a goose in a girdle, JCM.

If something's rare even though it's effective, that doesn't mean it's worthless. That means people should use it more. If it works, it works. Taunt is a fantastic move to have somewhere on your team. It's not in many standard sets, but there's nothing stopping one from using it anyway. Just because few people use Magic Bounce Natu doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It can pretty effectively stop spikes from coming up. Oh yeah, and Megahorn is only a 3HKO before any screens come up. Even an uninvested Psychic from that killer base 70 SpA can deal 65-80%, which isn't an insignificant amount of damage. With Reflect/Roost, you can actually wall Scolipede with Natu.

It's a little weird that you can't envision any sort of team other than rain or trick room that doesn't switch out a lot. Bulky offense? Particular components of stall? Sun? Setup sweepers? Then you have the gall to bring out the italics and get all sarcastic at me. It's like you think that rain teams can't be good and that good players can't use them. I didn't forget that Scolipede has toxic spikes, by the way. It's just that Taunt stops them just the same as spikes. As does KO'ing Scolipede. As does Magic Bounce. Literally everything I posted works exactly the same against Scolipede when it's using Toxic Spikes as otherwise. I think it would be nice if you would respond to what I'm saying with the assumption that I don't believe there is an important distinction, rather than that I was so crass as to forget one of Scolipede's most important moves.

I don't think there's any reason to be so huffy about my reference to EBelt Ninjask. I think that it should be clear by now that it's something that I like to use. It's almost a joke directed at myself by this point that I reference it constantly. (PS: It's good! Try it out. :naughty:) Would that I had said Zebstrika, I'm sure you would have been somewhat less apoplectic. Take a chill pill or something, Jesus.

TL;DR: Holy Ad Hominem, Batman!

 

[Robust Raichu]

Is it? I find that it's actually pretty easy to deal with. Loads and loads of Pokemon can stop it from getting more than one layer of spikes down, and you can straight up shut it down with...

An extraordinarily fast Taunt from Sneasel, Electrode, Floatzel, Persian, Swoobat, Serperior, or Prankster Liepard/Murkrow

A clean OHKO from anything faster. (Scarfers, Ebelt Ninjask, etc.)

Natu hangin' out.

Any sort of Magic Coat. (Kecleon, Grumpig, Girafarig, etc.)

A team that doesn't need to switch a lot

A Scolipede counter and a rapid spinner.

It's not too hard to include one of those.

The problem is its unpredictability. Most of your Taunters are OHKO'ed by Scoli while not being able to OHKO back. Same with your Magic Coaters. Seeing this, I decided to run a mixed set (Spikes, SD, Aqua Tail, Megahorn) Scolipede for shits and giggles on an offensive team and I think the only counter that really works consistently against this is a scarfer. Even then I've set up multiple times on a Sawk locked into CC. I'm not top of the tier but at low 1800's and high 1700's I would venture to be more than an amateur. A hard counter to Scolipede is difficult to come by.

Oh, and not to poke too much fun but "A team that doesn't need to switch a lot?" Aren't we all (with the exception of Voltturns and Rain) trying to make teams like that haha?

 

[Jajub123]

Like what RR said Scolipede threatens out various suicide leads and taunters. The main thing with Scolipede is that it's so fast that it can outspeed a ton of the tier. Also the issue with dealing with Scolipede is that it can either threaten or set up spikes on practically most of the tier. Scolipede can be very hard to counter considering all of its advantages. A true Scolipede counter is quite difficult to come by just as RR said. And going back to what Infernis said:

Faster Pokemon: These Pokemon actually pose a decent threat to Scolipede if they can inflict some damage. But hey that's what teammates are for.

Nature: Eat Megahorn/Rock Slide!

Magic Coat: These can be an issue but Scolipede can really deal with them quite well (the examples you listed all take massive damage from Megahorn). One counter I see here is MC Misdreavus which can WoW and outstall it.

RS-er: This is kinds hard to say because there are no efficient spinners in NU. The only spinner that can actually pose a threat is Armaldo and possibly Wartortle if it burns with Scald. (oh yeah and for the counter...that one is p obvious)

Well Scolipede does have its flaws but really it's an amazing Poke with very few hard counters.