SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet: The Teal Mask

[Force Majeure]

Don't sign it off just yet.

The combination of Toxic Chain, solid typing and special bulk, and a combo of Tailwind, Icy Wind and Dazzling Gleam may actually be enough to let it have VGC usage.

Not necessarly a mainstay or anything but it's unironically the only one of the 3 that may actually be viable in the actual official format.

I'm trying to build with it for VGC and I agree that it's the most useful of the three although Munkidori has some fun tools. I'm just not sure how Fez comes together. It gets Tailwind--but it's pretty slow, doesn't have Prankster, and its susceptible to Fake Out and paralysis. It gets light screen, but no reflect and again it's pretty slow. It's kind of bulky, but it's no Cresselia and can't heal teammates.

The ability to get Toxic out of a special spread move or multi-hit is cool for Fez, but I don't think this capacity is very good in VGC where Toxic is not clearly better than regular poison, and any poison is most often worse than spamable sleep and paralysis.

Likewise: Fez gets all of these multi-hit moves and Technician, but it's not getting STAB on any (?) of them so these attacks will be less powerful than they would be coming from something like Ambipom. Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are also both great to have, but offensive stats in the 90s/70s isn't going to get the job done here, especially when Fez's movepool doesn't really hit Poison or Steel types.

Fairy/Poison is a cool typing, but Fez's attributes don't come together to make a good support mon in VGC the same way Weezing-G's attributes do.

I feel like I'm missing something with Fez; has anyone else seen a cool use context for this mon?

 

[doipy hooves]

I'm guessing they returned to the plaza where they died since that's where the masks were and then (probably Munkidori figuring all this out) stole them, grabbed all the food offered (50/50 on if they thought this would power them up) and split.

They're opportunistic thieves so they're probably not going to rock the boat when they don't have to, but also wouldn't care about any collateral

It's implied that they died in the village where the battle took place though and were buried and revived at Loyalty Plaza, so they shouldn't know about the fact that the masks are currently stored at Kitakami Hall on the other side of town after hundreds of years, or that their reputation is so great that they could just ask politely for them instead of stealing them back.

I mean they also were the aggressors in the backstory and have blood on their hands that Ogerpon was seeking retribution for. They scatter because you show up and smack one of them, but who's to say they'd still leave Ogerpon alone after becoming Titan sized? The Townspeople not mentioning that and Carmine being surprised makes me think this is both recent and not normal for the trio even in the legend, do how long until 1 or all of them think "hey, I'm huge, let me try beating up that Ogre for the mask we were after again"

They stole all the masks and ate the food before going to Ogerpon though so they should already be powered up at that point. Ogerpon didn't even have the Teal Mask either so they probably wouldn't have been after it particularly. This reminds me of another problem I had with their role is that they all decided to just split up and be convenient boss battles to get each mask for Ogerpon instead of actually working together to do something.

Another thing that bothers me about the Loyal Three is their theme of positivity that only seems to serve as a fakeout for advertising their role as heroes and has no real purpose or explanation to it in the plot. How did the villagers even know their names when they just showed up and died? You could say it's just what the villagers posthumously called them because they acknowledge the wordplay in their myths and dialogue like Okidogi making everything okey dokey, but their cries also have an unexplained positive theme like when Okidogi just shows up saying "grrific" like he's a cereal mascot or Munkidori saying "mmkay" all the time. It's not even an attempt to communicate in English like Tatsugiri does since it's just treated as how they speak, so I guess the villagers at the time just saw this dog saying "grrific" as its battle cry while fighting an ogre and dying and thought it must be a role model for kindness called Okidogi as a result.

Also I just wanted to clip this shot of the caretaker saying among us talking about the Loyal Three.

 

[R_N]

Again I love how the Caretaker kind of justifies Carmine's fears of her home turning into a tourist trap

 

[Lord Godwin]

I'm wondering why they did not give the Loyal 3 masked forms with the masks their stolen. Fighting/Rock Okidogi, Fairy/Fire Fezandipi and Psychic/Water Munkidori would be kino.

 

[Worldie]

I'm wondering why they did not give the Loyal 3 masked forms with the masks their stolen. Fighting/Rock Okidogi, Fairy/Fire Fezandipi and Psychic/Water Munkidori would be kino.

Most likely because it doesn't make sense lorewise.

Ogerpon is the one that actually infuses the mask with the power (or is able to awaken it to terastal them), the Loyal Three just stole them cause oooo shiny but were never able to actually activate their powers.

 

[pika pal]

It's implied that they died in the village where the battle took place though and were buried and revived at Loyalty Plaza, so they shouldn't know about the fact that the masks are currently stored at Kitakami Hall on the other side of town after hundreds of years, or that their reputation is so great that they could just ask politely for them instead of stealing them back.


They stole all the masks and ate the food before going to Ogerpon though so they should already be powered up at that point. Ogerpon didn't even have the Teal Mask either so they probably wouldn't have been after it particularly. This reminds me of another problem I had with their role is that they all decided to just split up and be convenient boss battles to get each mask for Ogerpon instead of actually working together to do something.

We know Ogerpon doesn't have the Teal Mask obviously, but how aware are the Loyal 3 at that point? Last time they were alive Ogerpon used that Mask to beat them down, but even if they know it doesn't have it, simple revenge seems within their moral compass. I cited them running away because like Bullies in real life, they give up as soon as they're met with tangible resistance (i.e. you beating one of their asses in a battle). The Titan size thing felt weird to me since the other instances it's attributed to are the Path of Legends bosses who have been eating the Herba Mystica for a constant intake of weird power; the best explanation I have is they took a bunch of the Motchi, ate some, went to try and fight Ogerpon, and then after you drove them off they stuffed their faces with the rest and became giants from that.

I agree that the splitting up was lame because it was a perfect opportunity to experiment with a non-wild Battle using "Wild" or uncommanded Pokemon. Like imagine they rotate in and out akin to a Trainer battle despite having no trainer. I would suggest ganging up akin to a Triple/Horde Battle but we know those were cut in Gen 6 due to making the 3D Engines chug and cry.

 

[RocketSurgery]

I probably mashed through some text about the mochi, because when I played I just assumed that they used the power of the tera crystals on the masks to boost to Titan size. That made more sense to me than eating mochi.

Then again, I guess it's also never explained why the path of Legends titans got to grow gigantic when eating herba mystica, whereas when our mons eat it on a sandwich it somehow just manifests encounters with more shinies, so I guess sense was never on the picnic table to begin with. :P

 

[R_N]

I probably mashed through some text about the mochi, because when I played I just assumed that they used the power of the tera crystals on the masks to boost to Titan size. That made more sense to me than eating mochi.

Then again, I guess it's also never explained why the path of Legends titans got to grow gigantic when eating herba mystica, whereas when our mons eat it on a sandwich it somehow just manifests encounters with more shinies, so I guess sense was never on the picnic table to begin with. :P

I suppose the logic is a steady oversupplied diet of Herba Mystica do the trick (& the fact we can get it outside of that is just gameplay contrivance)

The super rice mochi does the same way





Though the mochi is made from the rice that is supplied by water....that has tera crystals running through it...

 

[UberSkitty]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703757415617835450

Pretty bad bug warning. SV currently only stores 300 records for defeated trainers and anyone defeated after that won't permanently save, so if you've cleared out enough of Paldea already then the Ogre Clan won't count as being defeated and the sidequest may be uncompleteable.

idk if I should be happy or mad to hear this...
On one hand, I now know what was going on with my 7th Ogre Clan battle, but on the other hand, it doesn't stop me from wanting to flip my table in anger...
ig all I can do now is hope this gets fixed. And fix the tables I flipped.

 

[Coronis]

idk if I should be happy or mad to hear this...
On one hand, I now know what was going on with my 7th Ogre Clan battle, but on the other hand, it doesn't stop me from wanting to flip my table in anger...
ig all I can do now is hope this gets fixed. And fix the tables I flipped.

iirc theres already been a patch announced that will fix this.

 

[R_N]

iirc theres already been a patch announced that will fix this.

Yes they announced it yesterday as the primary thing the patch will do, as well as fix an issue with how Mythics work with Go transfers (not by eliminating the dumb restriction, mind you, but fixed nontheless) and other misc bugs

 

[doipy hooves]

We know Ogerpon doesn't have the Teal Mask obviously, but how aware are the Loyal 3 at that point? Last time they were alive Ogerpon used that Mask to beat them down, but even if they know it doesn't have it, simple revenge seems within their moral compass. I cited them running away because like Bullies in real life, they give up as soon as they're met with tangible resistance (i.e. you beating one of their asses in a battle). The Titan size thing felt weird to me since the other instances it's attributed to are the Path of Legends bosses who have been eating the Herba Mystica for a constant intake of weird power; the best explanation I have is they took a bunch of the Motchi, ate some, went to try and fight Ogerpon, and then after you drove them off they stuffed their faces with the rest and became giants from that.

I agree that the splitting up was lame because it was a perfect opportunity to experiment with a non-wild Battle using "Wild" or uncommanded Pokemon. Like imagine they rotate in and out akin to a Trainer battle despite having no trainer. I would suggest ganging up akin to a Triple/Horde Battle but we know those were cut in Gen 6 due to making the 3D Engines chug and cry.

I guess that is a fair point that the loyal three seem pretty simplistic.

Speaking of bullying, this does raise a comparison I want to make about Ogerpon's backstory and how it covers a lot of familiar ground to the Team Star story from the main game. Both are about a misunderstanding and bullying of outsiders in the past causing them to be treated as the villains in the present, with the main character involved being female and hiding behind a mask/false name initially. After getting involved, we find out that the story we know isn't true and who we thought were the villains were the victims taking a stand against the ones who wronged them in a big battle, also armed with customizations that can change their/Pokemon types. They won and made the real villains die/drop out of school, but everyone in the past decided to cover the truth up, except for one old man who is able to tell you the perspective of what really happened back then.

While the stories are more different under the surface, I think the shared similarity of everyone in the past being part of a huge coverup was more believable in the small village than all the bullies dropping out and all the staff resigning and erasing the evidence, but on the other hand I think it was more impactful for you to face Team Star themselves rather than how Ogerpon's arc was resolved by Kieran convincing everyone offscreen. While the bullying all happened in the past offscreen and you never see any of them, I think this is for the better since talking to each boss about their perspectives and seeing flashbacks feels more natural, and you have Clive and Cassiopeia with their own motivations driving you along as well as how they acclimate back to school postgame. In comparison Ogerpon is pretty sympathetic from the start, and since everyone involved is a Pokemon, there isn't much dialogue or characterization to work with outside of Grandpa's exposition, so the story feels like it's more just setting up Kieran's motivations and some other questions for DLC2.

 

[pika pal]

I guess that is a fair point that the loyal three seem pretty simplistic.

Speaking of bullying, this does raise a comparison I want to make about Ogerpon's backstory and how it covers a lot of familiar ground to the Team Star story from the main game. Both are about a misunderstanding and bullying of outsiders in the past causing them to be treated as the villains in the present, with the main character involved being female and hiding behind a mask/false name initially. After getting involved, we find out that the story we know isn't true and who we thought were the villains were the victims taking a stand against the ones who wronged them in a big battle, also armed with customizations that can change their/Pokemon types. They won and made the real villains die/drop out of school, but everyone in the past decided to cover the truth up, except for one old man who is able to tell you the perspective of what really happened back then.

While the stories are more different under the surface, I think the shared similarity of everyone in the past being part of a huge coverup was more believable in the small village than all the bullies dropping out and all the staff resigning and erasing the evidence, but on the other hand I think it was more impactful for you to face Team Star themselves rather than how Ogerpon's arc was resolved by Kieran convincing everyone offscreen. While the bullying all happened in the past offscreen and you never see any of them, I think this is for the better since talking to each boss about their perspectives and seeing flashbacks feels more natural, and you have Clive and Cassiopeia with their own motivations driving you along as well as how they acclimate back to school postgame. In comparison Ogerpon is pretty sympathetic from the start, and since everyone involved is a Pokemon, there isn't much dialogue or characterization to work with outside of Grandpa's exposition, so the story feels like it's more just setting up Kieran's motivations and some other questions for DLC2.

I think in that regard there is the difference that Ogerpon did go through with retaliatory violence, whereas Team Star intimidated but to my memory never actually harmed their bullies. The main reason I think Kieran's off-screen resolution of the Legend is so much an afterthought is because it honestly is a side detail at best: The Loyal Three as the aggressors are still out and about compared to Team Star's bullies either vanishing or having made peace with the members, while the former are also holding onto something Ogerpon tangibly wants back beyond the moral victory of driving them off. After getting them back, Ogerpon chooses to go with you and probably leave Kitakami, so her reputation being forgiven is nice but ultimately doesn't mean a great deal as far as how she lives after the story resolves; Team Star by comparison you are trying to prevent their expulsion and keep them out of trouble from the get go, so clearing the situation is directly relevant to the goal you started on. If anything, Kieran's action is as you said about him, because it feels like him trying to win over Ogerpon while simultaneously separating himself as results in her bonding with you instead: the event is to remove Kieran so that the decision that pushes him over the edge can logically happen.

 

[Lord Godwin]

So if we believe Kieran is new Champion
what would rest of his Team is as none of current are in the rumoured Indigo Disc Dex?

 

[AztecCroc]

So if we believe Kieran is new Champion
what would rest of his Team is as none of current are in the rumoured Indigo Disc Dex?

You are aware that they don't have to use Pokémon in the ID Dex there's nothing stopping them from using Pokémon from other parts of the game.

 

[Nokocchi]

So if we believe Kieran is new Champion
what would rest of his Team is as none of current are in the rumoured Indigo Disc Dex?

There was a few normal, generic trainers in Kitakami using Pokemon not in the Kitikami Pokedex.

 

[R_N]

Though Kieran will probably change up his team anyway. He kept making additions and changes throughout Teal Mask, so I'd be surprised to see him keep most of the team beyond Dipplin('s evolution)

 

[Crimson Chris]

If I had to guess, his team would be the Dipplin evo, maybe Gliscor and Yanmega. Then some Indigo Disk mons.

 

[Perriechu]

Kinda expecting he’ll have one of the starters - maybe a Sinnoh starter? Since his team has to reflect that of a champion I kinda expect it to be something like Yanmega, Gliscor, Infernape, [pseudo], [random 500+ bst ID mon], Dipplin Evo.

But then again he might keep the same team just with the Dipplin evo so who knows.

 

[Scorpio]

Kinda expecting he’ll have one of the starters - maybe a Sinnoh starter? Since his team has to reflect that of a champion I kinda expect it to be something like Yanmega, Gliscor, Infernape, [pseudo], [random 500+ bst ID mon], Dipplin Evo.

But then again he might keep the same team just with the Dipplin evo so who knows.

I’m betting if he uses a Sinnoh starter that it’ll be the one super-effective against your starter cuz he’s gonna want to defeat you specifically.

 

[Lord Godwin]

Kinda expecting he’ll have one of the starters - maybe a Sinnoh starter? Since his team has to reflect that of a champion I kinda expect it to be something like Yanmega, Gliscor, Infernape, [pseudo], [random 500+ bst ID mon], Dipplin Evo.

But then again he might keep the same team just with the Dipplin evo so who knows.

I doubt both Yanmega and Gliscor would stay, rather see just Gliscor. He might keep Poliwrath IMO.
The best Pseudo would be H-Goodra but I really doubt he will get one.
A nice in lore would be Kieran defeating all the Ogre Clan members, getting an ability patch and if he needs to have Yanmega, giving it Speed Boost. Or Poison Heal to Gliscor.
Per Starter giving him either Unova (Since Blueberry is in Unova) or Hisui one would be interesting.

 

[Coronis]

I doubt both Yanmega and Gliscor would stay, rather see just Gliscor. He might keep Poliwrath IMO.
The best Pseudo would be H-Goodra but I really doubt he will get one.
A nice in lore would be Kieran defeating all the Ogre Clan members, getting an ability patch and if he needs to have Yanmega, giving it Speed Boost. Or Poison Heal to Gliscor.
Per Starter giving him either Unova (Since Blueberry is in Unova) or Hisui one would be interesting.

Yanma/Yanmega is the only mon he has in every single battle, it would surprise me if he dropped it. It won’t surprise me if it ends up with Speed Boost though.

 

[Worldie]

Yanma/Yanmega is the only mon he has in every single battle, it would surprise me if he dropped it. It won’t surprise me if it ends up with Speed Boost though.

Real question is why would it need it when Tintend Lens is objectively stronger as an ability.

 

[Coronis]

Real question is why would it need it when Tintend Lens is objectively stronger as an ability.

Well despite Tinted Lens making it stronger - Speed Boost will make it faster - perhaps more of an advantage in game as it will usually be slower than the players Pokemon. All depends on players own team construction ofc. Both useful abilities, wouldn’t necessarily say either one is definitely superior in this situation.

 

[Worldie]

Well despite Tinted Lens making it stronger - Speed Boost will make it faster - perhaps more of an advantage in game as it will usually be slower than the players Pokemon. All depends on players own team construction ofc. Both useful abilities, wouldn’t necessarily say either one is definitely superior in this situation.

I actually see it on other way around, it's more likely that in a casual playthrough Yanmega will be faster anyway (95 speed is not exactly slow, and it can have the advantage of 31 IV / 252 EV if they really want over just regularly in-game caught ones).

Source: the fact Yanmega actually outsped and brutally murdered all of my "casual playthrough team" (which i had kept in the boxes after beating the main story) except Meowscarada