SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Worldie]

if Quaquaval were to get Dragon Dance for any reason at all it'd be because its a dancer and they'd wanna give it all the dance moves save for the signature ones like Revelation Dance and Lunar Dance.

This reminds me how disappointing it is that it's not getting Dancer as HA :(

but also.. whiscash and barboach (and crawdaunt, scrafty, salazzle)

all of these have a reason for getting dragon dance.

Which I can't actually remind, but they make sense, kinda like Tyranitar gets it because it looks like a draconic godzilla even though it's a dragon type.

 

[Rudoku]

Scream Tail - Please don't let this abuse Eviolite, the movepool will matter a lot, hopefully it'll get to keep Wish + Teleport from regular Jigglypuff, it has good bulk but the high speed doesn't mean much with mediocre offenses

It won't. Jigglypuff only got a meaningful Teleport in Let's Go, no way in hell they're gonna give it that move again.

 

[Worldie]

It won't. Jigglypuff only got a meaningful Teleport in Let's Go, no way in hell they're gonna give it that move again.

More like, it won't because it isn't an alternate form, and Jigglypuff didn't get even Teleport outside of Let's Go in first place, so unless they intentionally add it to the movepool, it'll be a similar case to the Galarian Birds not having Roost.

 

[The N@me User]

So I noticed we hadn't posted the Tumbleweed yet

Someone tell me how to spoiler this cause I usually don't upload pictures

 

[Unknown Warrior]

EDIT: Speaking of which, the theme of their stats is that the past mons have odd stat numbers and the future mons have even stat numbers.

This almost made me spittake. That's the cheekiness I love about GF, much like the UBs all having prime base stats.
Convinces me of the validity of the leaks too.

 

[starryReverie]

SoView attachment 463673

I was about to post this. No clue if real but if looks like it could be the tumblewood mon

 

[Sirya]

So I noticed we hadn't posted the Tumbleweed yet
View attachment 463673
Someone tell me how to spoiler this cause I usually don't upload pictures

wtf is this cosmic terror

 

[MaskedFeraligatr]

So I noticed we hadn't posted the Tumbleweed yet
View attachment 463673
Someone tell me how to spoiler this cause I usually don't upload pictures

I say fake. It looks like it is just a model placed into the environment without anything to showcase. That could be the crop/quality, but it doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[Rarycaris]

My possibly spicy opinion is that if Terastal is broken in singles, maybe the problem is not with Terastal but with the fact that OU is full of Pokemon that become completely unmanageable if you give them any sort of buff (even if it's just giving them actual STAB moves, e.g. Gyarados or Landorus), so *any* sort of similar mechanic or even a meaningful movepool expansion will push them over the edge. Fundamentally this is just a design flaw of generational gimmicks being able to be used by anything that was already powerful, as well as with singles being the default battle format in game, more so than with the way Terastal specifically is designed.

 

[MrHands]

My possibly spicy opinion is that if Terastal is broken in singles, maybe the problem is not with Terastal but with the fact that OU is full of Pokemon that become completely unmanageable if you give them any sort of buff (even if it's just giving them actual STAB moves, e.g. Gyarados or Landorus), so *any* sort of similar mechanic or even a meaningful movepool expansion will push them over the edge. Fundamentally this is just a design flaw of generational gimmicks being able to be used by anything that was already powerful, as well as with singles being the default battle format in game, more so than with the way Terastal specifically is designed.

Dynamax was hideously broken in every single tier, including Ubers and VGC singles. Not just OU.

 

[Worldie]

My possibly spicy opinion is that if Terastal is broken in singles, maybe the problem is not with Terastal but with the fact that OU is full of Pokemon that become completely unmanageable if you give them any sort of buff (even if it's just giving them actual STAB moves, e.g. Gyarados or Landorus), so *any* sort of similar mechanic or even a meaningful movepool expansion will push them over the edge. Fundamentally this is just a design flaw of generational gimmicks being able to be used by anything that was already powerful, as well as with singles being the default battle format in game, more so than with the way Terastal specifically is designed.

To be honest if that was to be the case, I wouldn't necessarly call it a design flaw per se (after all, a "mechanic everyone can use" will always turn in "mechanic the best will use and will just make the strong stronger".

It's kind of like when in a Moba you introduce a very strong item, and everyone and their mom starts buying it because it's THAT good. The champions arent the problem, just the item is so strong that it makes already strong things stronger and those who can't use it fall behind.

I say fake. It looks like it is just a model placed into the environment without anything to showcase. That could be the crop/quality, but it doesn’t sit right with me.

I agree with this.
All the pokedex snippets are purposely made to "show off the pokemon in its natural ambient or interacting with other pokemon". This one is far too undetailed to be real.
Ofc it could be if the actual image was much bigger and that was just a small part of it.

 

[RoiDadadou]

So, hum, about this thread.

View attachment 463672
You blokes really wrote over thirty pages about leeks!? In ONE NIGHT!?

Thanks, I'm not the only one who was in pain having to read all of this. AND DOING THE MTF DOC ON THE SIDE.

You guys are the worse

 

[Personwhoisrandom]

Wasn't it confirmed that you get Paradox mons in raids? Cause if so then doesn't that already confirm Scarlet players being able to join raids hosted by Violet players to get Future Paradox mons and vice versa just like SwSh. I just haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

Seeing as how they so far seem like UBs except all of them are exclusive, GF will prolly have a way for everyone to get the opposite exclusive Paradox. Even UBs let you catch a few so you have trading fodder.

 

[Perriechu]

mmk, I've had enough time to digest my thoughts on the paradox mons (although no one asked teehee)

Hide

Scarlet

Donphan - probably one of my overall favourite designs, could honestly pass as an evo but in any capacity, I'm glad donphan is getting time to shine, and the retconning of johto continues. from a competitive standpoint, it has a really good offensive type but doesn't get anything new in terms of resistances from fighting iirc? and i think its speed tier is a little too awkward to make full use of trick room, but scarf could be viable, might be a dangerous revenge killer in UU?

Volcarona - just a silly little guy scurrying around!! the design with the typing is interesting (more so for fighting) is it just going to scurry up to people and then wail on them?? depending on what the ability does and its movepool, heracross has just been outcast for the entirety of gen 9 (if it reappears in later dlcs) overall i really like the design

Ungabunguss - i was banking on this being grass/steel mainly because the way it looks in-game makes the grass strands look steel-like (or just static and boring lol) i can't see the original being outclassed bc they're evidently meant to do different things - but no one wants a slow grass/dark Pokémon, also the fucking beak is haunting, i'm not a fan, the true Ungabunguss outsold

Bigglyruff - yknow I was on the fence from that screenshot we got ages ago, but seeing its stats and design i kinda love it? obsessed, slay kween and so on - but fairy/psychic again? i personally had this pegged as fairy/dark or fairy/rock but i guesss fairy/psychic is fine, although considering it's a defensive speedster, psychic just hinders it, could be a menace in lower tiers if it gets a solid supporting movepool.

Rom hack Mismagius - adding fairy typing and buffing its special/speed to 135 across the board is pretty much all this thing needs tbh, i enjoy its design bc i've wanted misdreavus/mismagius to get something else for a long time and well, here we are! if it keeps a similar movepool i can see this being nasty in UU

Magneton - this is so stupid i kinda love it, magnet legs? you can very much tell they needed to justify not giving it steel type here though (despite still looking very chromatic/having screws etc?) so the typing doesn't make complete sense (magnetic sand etc i know it just doesn't sit right!!) silly designs that can also be quite monstrous are always welcome though, and i don't see this outclassing magnezone at all so let the magnets reign!!

Salamence - oof, i think one of my favourite designs of all time? or at least in the last few gens, just very fucking badass, incorporating parts of its mega design and then making it look like a proper wyvern from like final fantasy is a big yes in my book, genuinely off-putting in the best way. having overall better bulk(?) and speed than its counterpart, as well as probably getting DD is going to bode well for it

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Violet
Donphan - this thing just looks so stupid lmao Tamagotchi looking ass, i like the overall design and what they're going for but come on now that face is just.. not serious!! competitively though it could be quite destructive, good speed tier, solid typing and solid offenses? rip!

Volcarona - Although it's just normal Volcarona just more pointy and shiny, I still love him. absolutely not shocked that his Spa is now even higher, and with the potential of quiver dance and tera-ground, uh oh heatran, u in danger girl.

Galladevior - no notes 10/10 just absolute excellence, very destructive, very sexy, very scary. metal sonic

handsiyama - probably the one i have seen no one discuss.. lol, but idk, it's design for what it is, seems to be very obvious. going to hit like a truck, potential menace is lowest tiers

Delibirb - no notes, 100/10!!! good a boy who waited for like 22 years to get some viability (in the form of something else ) if this thing gets a good movepool i can see it absolutely wrecking a lot of things - 136 spe coupled with 124 spa and good typing and actually a decent defensive stat??? johto retcon is in full swing

Hydreigon - very sad :( hydreigon is a fav but this just looks more pointy and now no hand friends??? gonna be interesting to see how the slight speed boost makes it act now even if it technically is BST weaker than Hydreigon

Tyranitar - this one was v disappointing too, i wanted it to look more crazy mecha, but it's good for what it is, i was expecting dark/electric, not rock/electric. there is no place in this world for alolan golem it seems

overall both sides have really good designs, and some have poor-ish designs, i think Scarlet wins purely because making them more prehistoric/beefier/feral is a lot easier and gives more variety than mecha, but there are still some top tier designs in the Violet bunch.

 

[Yung Dramps]

It seems more and more like the tradeoff with Paradoxes is effectively not having an ability below Ubers

 

[AztecCroc]

Wasn't it confirmed that you get Paradox mons in raids? Cause if so then doesn't that already confirm Scarlet players being able to join raids hosted by Violet players to get Future Paradox mons and vice versa just like SwSh. I just haven't seen anyone mention that yet.

They have shit catch rates though so you'd have to do a fair few to actually catch the thing.

 

[PlusC]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

It's a dancer...

 

[R_N]

They have shit catch rates though so you'd have to do a fair few to actually catch the thing.

In fairness I don't think we actually know how the Raid catch will work in this go around; they could have made it better than last time

or worse!

but not necessarily the same

 

[Worldie]

Will they be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

"Outside of Uber" means that for what we know, the only pokemon that can "set their field" are the 2 legendaries, which are almost guaranteed to sit in Ubers and not come down.

It seems more and more like the tradeoff with Paradoxes is effectively not having an ability below Ubers

However I am actually a bit worried by this though.

As far as singles go, i suppose some of them will just basically not have an ability, however even if the leges werent in ubers, you're still sitting on a 5 turn timer, but this much more obnoxious in VGC where "field conditions" are a regular thing and Koraidon/Miraidon won't be usable until restricted format.

Unless ofc there's other ways to set their fields. We know them as "Drought" and "Electric terrain" but we don't actually know if they're exactly the same (and thus, enabled by regular users of these conditions) or their entire unique thing that can be set ONLY by the cover leges.

 

[vin sneasel]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

135 (S)Atk+Spd is really good, especially with 100/115/100 bulk. We don't even know what their abilities do (if they're as influential as Kyogre/Groudon's abilities like Khu suggests, no shot they're OU) or how broad their movepools are. Solgaleo/Lunala have comparable stat spreads and they aren't dropping anytime soon.

 

[Perriechu]

i can't see GF making a very new interesting set of Pokémon essentially obsolete without pairing them with the Dons, mainly because in VGC, the cover legends are usually not allowed until certain rulesets? and VGC doubles is really all they design for

i'm betting on the abilities simply being powered up by whatever the other two have, but they can still function, to an extent, on their own. (copium? perhaps!)

khu is also known to overreact a lot

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Imagine being a slow Rock/Electric pokemon with no ability in TYOL 2022

 

[fratelli bc]

There is no point in comparing Teras to DMax/GMax

DMax was broken because any pokemon could have high base power moves that set weather, terrains, hazards or raise it's own stats for 3 turns, while having double HP (which would heal them in a way like Zygarde's Power Construct do). God, there was a time Dracozolt was using Hustle Aerial Ace to get Max Airstream boosts and start Bolt Beak spam.

Tera is not broken. It makes borderline broken pokemon well... Broken. But i don't see the likes of... Diggersby becoming ban worthy because it's now a mono-type with a really boosted stab. NatDex banned Dragapult because he could use Ghostium-Z, a one time ghost physical nuke. Dragapult is borderline broken and just needs reliable ghost physical stab to become ban worthy.

 

[Rarycaris]

It's kind of like when in a Moba you introduce a very strong item, and everyone and their mom starts buying it because it's THAT good. The champions arent the problem, just the item is so strong that it makes already strong things stronger and those who can't use it fall behind.

Sure, but if every single new item you bring out ends up being broken unless it has specific restrictions ensuring the best champions can't use it, maybe the champions are to some degree the problem, insofar as they're strong enough to make it impossible for any sort of buff to not break them.

I think we've reached a point where the game just can't really handle any more power creep without nerfing or banning some of the top mons.

"Outside of Uber" means that for what we know, the only pokemon that can "set their field" are the 2 legendaries, which are almost guaranteed to sit in Ubers and not come down.

I think they were asking if Kuraidon and Miraidon are banworthy.

And the answer is: yes, they have better bulk than Celebi alongside well-optimised stat lines in general, good offensive typings, hit pretty hard (comparable to Solgaleo and Lunala with far better speed), and their abilities will also likely place field effects that further boost them offensively. If the abilities and moves are even halfway good, we're looking at mons competitive with Xerneas and Yveltal, both of which have been top tier ubers for ages, and that's before the possibility of them inheriting Cyclizar's ridiculous signature move.

And frankly, by the sounds of it, the paradox mons will get a strong enough boost from said field effects that the support capability offered by Kuraidon and Miraidon would be enough to keep them banned by itself.