SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[G-Luke]

The downside is Pokemon Dependent. You could give an Electric type Ice moves, but that means Electric type becomes an Ice type. Some Pokemon won’t mind this and can just Terastallize after setting up, and really you are going to be boosting only 1 move 99% of the time on 1 Pokemon offensively and those moves keep their drawbacks.
Max Moves are still far more busted since it applies to all your attacking moves.
If you had a Thundurus-I with Brick Break, Fly, Foul Play, and Wild Charge, all 4 would be about the same as getting a x1.5 boost give or take, all having guaranteed secondary effects, didn’t miss, and ignored the downsides. That same Thundurus couldn’t do the same thing with Tera besides match 1 Max move in power and last the entire game. And that is also ignoring everything else about Dynamax.

These are some crappy go arounds when everybody knows that people are just going to run shit like Pure Flying Gyarados, pure Steel Scizor, pure Ghost DD Dragapult. Ppl be sitting and talking about oh how mons gonna have to give up this and that, I promise when all is said and done Terastilizing will just boil down to mons taking the better of their STABs and just ravage teams 99% of the time. Once the novelty of Tera dies down and everyone had fun turning their Rotom Washes into Fire types to catch a Ferro off guard, super STAB will ultimately be what we have to deal with. And thus is what I think will either result in the banning of the mechanic or axing of alot of threats.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

alleged starter stat blocks

Quaquavar is so mid.

That's still my boy tho. Moxie is nice too, especially since we already know it got Aqua Jet.

Why're people expecting Skeledirge to be physical? It's supposed to be a singer according to Khu and sound-based moves are mostly Special.

It's a humongous blocky croc. It wasn't that far-fetched.

Paradox Gallade Trans confirmed?

Talk about a reach. It's just Mega Gallade with some Gardevoir elements to justify the SpA buff/not be a straight copy of MeGallade.

So given that these straight up two standard word things seem to be the Paradox mons' actual names, why? The Doxphans have normal names in Japanese, Great Tusk is イダイナキバ (Idainakiba) and Iron Treads is テツノワダチ (Tetsunowadachi), not multiple regular words.

"Tetsu no *word*" seems to be the naming convention for Future mons and it matches the leaks.

"Tetsu no *word*" is also LITERALLY "Iron *word*"

It could also be "Steel *word*", but my Japanese is rusty. Pun intended.

Hopefully a real Movexit happens this time

Movexit was the worst part of Dexit and that's a disgusting take.

With that said, Rocks should've been nerfed in Gen 4 itself.

You should look at Valiant a lot harder if all you notice from Gardevoir is the sleeves.

View attachment 463643View attachment 463644

It has Gallade's lower body and M-Gallade's cape, but the cape doesn't just hang behind it. It starts to wrap around the body into a more open style of Gardevoir's dress. The waist up is all Gardevoir, except for the horn on the head.

Its waist is noticeably thinner than its chest, a trait that only Gardevoir has. The chest itself is obviously Gardevoir's, as is the head and face, with the exception of the upright horn. The arms don't have the obvious blades that either of the Gallade forms do, and are more in line with a gauntlet version of Mega Gardevoir's "gloves".

Discounting the accessories that are behind it, which are hard to make out and that don't fit either form, this looks, in fact, more like it should be referred to as Paradox Gardevoir. It's very obviously a fusion, but if you put this in front of anyone who hasn't been following the leaks and hadn't already digested it as Paradox Gallade, they would see Gardevoir's face and dress, and think that it was a future form of Gardevoir, not of Gallade.

The pics don't do it justice, but don't forget the purple blades. (Now detachable! )

 

[Worldie]

These are some crappy go arounds when everybody knows that people are just going to run shit like Pure Flying Gyarados, pure Steel Scizor, pure Ghost DD Dragapult. Ppl be sitting and talking about oh how mons gonna have to give up this and that, I promise when all is said and done Terastilizing will just boil down to mons taking the better of their STABs and just ravage teams 99% of the time. Once the novelty of Tera dies down and everyone had fun turning their Rotom Washes into Fire types to catch a Ferro off guard, super STAB will ultimately be what we have to deal with. And thus is what I think will either result in the banning of the mechanic or axing of alot of threats.

Sorta, but I think you do discount the benefit of triple-stab (or double for, say, stuff like Zeraora or Rillaboom) on pokemon that don't have to use Tera-Blast for it.
To my eyes, getting that 50% boost on a coverage (on top of potentially fixing a bad typing) can be as good as getting Adaptability for free.

In the example you said, Sure you can run pure Flying Gyarados... but you can also tera Gyarados in Ground type, which makes you resistant to stealth rock / immune to elec, keeps your water stab and grass coverage, while now having stab earthquake, and not having to run an otherwise useless move if you don't actually teralyze it.

That said, I do agree that defensive Teralyze (if it stays) will be extremely niche and almost never used outside of very specific situations where you don't need the offensive usage.

 

[MaskedFeraligatr]

Is it really. Once you're terastalyzed your Volcarona into a ground type to murder that Heatran that walls you, your volcarona is now a ground type. Sure it has 3 stabs, but it is now vulnerable to being demolished by Kartana and Rillaboom.
Yes, these kind of sets will let you lure in and kill a otherwise dangerous check, but you'll pay the price by now having other checks due to the new type, or being vulnerable to hazards or conditions you weren't before.

By the way people talk of it, you make it seem like "anyone will just terastalize at random into random types and win games", forgetting the fact that in same way a Teralyze can win a game, a wrong teralyze can lose it.

In the example above, say opponent has both Heatran and Kartana. You *want* to lure in Heatran to 1hko it... except you can't take that risk because after that you're letting Kartana come in for free and run your team down.
And if you are able to take out Kartana first, then sure, but you'll have had to take down Kartana first while also running effectively 3-moves Volcarona who could have instead been a regular Volcarona with Gigadrain or Psychic instead.

It's not as mindless as people make it look like, and outside the first period of memes it will likely end up requiring skill to make a "gamebreaking unexpected Teralyze" work.

Or everything is out of the window and it gets banned because we hate fun and love stall (cit: reddit)

To me, this is all entirely dependant on the power level and context of the format. A regional dex format could end up being weak enough to where specific threats with terastal could just run over their only checks.
The unpredictability stuff is really overplayed anyway: you aren’t going to use Tera bug on anything.

 

[Bakugames]

like what other people said, the unpredictability of tera will be at most exclusive to a few mons that can actually pull off extensive tera types and still be good. the true scary thing is the obvious teras, which will still hit like a truck

 

[Toxtection]

Comparing the paradoxes to already existing pokemon, assuming that their abilities don't do anything without the legendaries:


Great Tusk - Almost the same stats as with speed being the main difference, it's 1 point slower than , assuming it gets to keep Donphan's Rapid Spin, it looks very similar to Excadrill

Brute Bonnet - The stats are very similar to but signficantly slower, Spore would make a difference but despite being much bulkier than Breloom, not having an ability will be rough considering how impactful and 's abilities were/are, unless it gets a way to boost Atk unlike regular Amoonguss, I don't see it being better than any of these three mons

Sandy Shocks - The most unique one so far, it'll ironically be a great switch-in to regular , I honestly don't know what to expect from this mon but it'll be cool to see it in action

Scream Tail - Please don't let this abuse Eviolite, the movepool will matter a lot, hopefully it'll get to keep Wish + Teleport from regular Jigglypuff, it has good bulk but the high speed doesn't mean much with mediocre offenses

Flutter Mane - Probably the strongest one so far, 135 SpA with 135 Spe would make it faster than but slower than and speed tie with , hopefully it will get Moonblast unlike a certain Fairy type with 136 special attack, it'll have unresisted STAB coverage unlike Spectrier. Bulk-wise it's physical bulk is inferior to Spectrier on paper but not being weak to Knock Off is big

Slither Wing - We already have two (albeit very different) Bug/Fighting types with 570 BST , this one has a much more well-rounded statspread, not sure if that's good or bad

Roaring Moon - Physical but faster and stronger, would be the first actual dragon to get both DD and Knock Off, it'll either be great or get walled hard by Fairies, judging by current :salemence: ,it doesn't have a good Steel or Poison move, Steel Wing just doesn't hit hard enough and Iron Miss has terrible accuracy, Salamence doesn't get U-turn either

Iron Treads - Lowest offensive stats of all the paradoxes, it's honestly very close to the other Donphan form, the bulk is redistributed, it'll be one of the fastest Steel types in the game although being slightly slower than and is kind of unfortunate, I'm not sure how well this will do

Iron Moth - but more offense oriented, I don't expect this to be worse than current Volcarona, the +10 Speed will certainly help

Iron Hands - No Guts, gaining Electric STAB would help hit Flying types but again, not having Guts means that the difference in damage won't be that big, it's also substantially bulkier than normal Hariyama, I see this as an improvement although it would be much stronger if we got an good non-signature physical electric move

Iron Jugulis - Assuming it gets Nasty Plot like regular , imo it's most similar to except it's faster and hits harder at the cost of some bulk

Iron Thorns - Compared to the original pokemon, it endures a MASSIVE decrease in special bulk due to having a lower spdef stat and no sand, it'll be taking about 73% more damage from special attacks and imo it doesn't gain that much in return due to the physical Electric type conundrum, Mega Tyranitar is certainly not a good precedent either (Thunder Punch will not 2 HKO Phys Def Corviknight without at least 192 Atk and at 252+ it's not guaranteed)

Iron Bundle - The new fastest Ice type in the game, having the same speed as 's zen mode form, Delibird was one of if not the worst pokemon in the game and now it will actually be good

Iron Valiant - There aren't many mons I can compare it to, Infernape and Mega-Lucario seem to be the closest, of all the paradoxes it's the only one with mixed offenses, imo its viability will depend signficantly on whether or not it gets good coverage to hit the Poison type Regenerators


Overall there are a lot of powerful new mons here but also a few that aren't as fortunate

 

[fratelli bc]

You know, there is no need to build a team for a dedicated tera. Yes, it's possible, but people will probably run teams with 6 possible teras.

 

[Ironmage]

A thought on Iron Moth's poison type: it may be radioactive.

One of the main parts of Volcarona's lore is that it was used as a substitute for the sun at some point. I could easily see Iron Moth running with that in the sense of "nuclear reactor" as much as "provide light and warmth". While fusion doesn't involve as much chemically toxic metals with enduring radioactivity as fission, most artificial processes involve the (weakly) radioactive tritium.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I'm not sure if Quaquavar is straight up worse Gyarados.

Fighting STAB is better than lol Bounce and it does get Aqua Jet.

Watch it not get Dragon Dance.

I really can't believe how aggressively MID it is tho.

 

[Cuddly]

These are some crappy go arounds when everybody knows that people are just going to run shit like Pure Flying Gyarados, pure Steel Scizor, pure Ghost DD Dragapult. Ppl be sitting and talking about oh how mons gonna have to give up this and that, I promise when all is said and done Terastilizing will just boil down to mons taking the better of their STABs and just ravage teams 99% of the time. Once the novelty of Tera dies down and everyone had fun turning their Rotom Washes into Fire types to catch a Ferro off guard, super STAB will ultimately be what we have to deal with. And thus is what I think will either result in the banning of the mechanic or axing of alot of threats.

I think you are really overestimating Super STAB in practical teams and severally underestimating its defensive utility. Like on Scizor, Bullet Punch goes from 40*1.5*1.5 = 90, to 120 if you Terastallize it into a Steel type, and you lose your Fighting/Ground resistances.
Gyarados becoming flying sounds cool and all, but its only Flying STABs are 2 turn moves and 80 BP Tera Blast, when it learns Power Whip too, making Flying more of an edge case.
And Dragapult is cheating since its borderline Ubers currently and absolutely destroyed NatDex with 1 time Physical Ghost move. It's also just a league of its own when you look at its movepool for Terastallizing. Limiting it to Ghost really oversimplifies what Dragapult could do with Tera. Ghost, Dragon, Fighting, Fairy, Steel, Fire, Electric, and Water make Dragapult so much different from something like Volcarona who will just opt to use Psychic, Ground, or Water.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Meowscarada stats looks exactly like Gren's except atk and sp atk are swapped. How useful Protean will be depends on the movepool...

I can see Skeleridge as Utility check for some mons, with those stats I think it is the bulkiest Unaware user.

Quaquaval stats look fine? If it gets SD, Victory Dance or even Agility, I can see the Moxie snowball...

 

[KalosianPorygon]

So, hum, about this thread.

You blokes really wrote over thirty pages about leeks!? In ONE NIGHT!?

 

[PlusC]

I was actually thinking Electric Shedinja with an Air Balloon, just status and weather can kill you once you're in.

Once you've scouted your opponents team you could pick a typing to suit you.

I appreciate it's not in the game because features like "the actual pokemon" that rom hackers have had for a decade now are beyond a small indie studio like Game Freak, but it's fun to speculate

 

[PlusC]

So, hum, about this thread.

View attachment 463672
You blokes really wrote over thirty pages about leeks!?

Farfetch'd confirmed

 

[Perriechu]

These are some crappy go arounds when everybody knows that people are just going to run shit like Pure Flying Gyarados, pure Steel Scizor, pure Ghost DD Dragapult. Ppl be sitting and talking about oh how mons gonna have to give up this and that, I promise when all is said and done Terastilizing will just boil down to mons taking the better of their STABs and just ravage teams 99% of the time. Once the novelty of Tera dies down and everyone had fun turning their Rotom Washes into Fire types to catch a Ferro off guard, super STAB will ultimately be what we have to deal with. And thus is what I think will either result in the banning of the mechanic or axing of alot of threats.

i v much agree with this. at first tera will be used to (try) give life to dead on arrival Pokémon like give.. idk floatzel electric type tera so it can finally break through opposing water types or give a short lived creative edge to already OU mons to try and grill the other, but ultimately after a few months it will definitely boil down to just being pseudo-z-moves, idk if that will result in a ban or if the new mons and new tools for the returning ones will provide enough balance but the endgame of tera is going to be already OU mons going for super-stab and then maybe a few surprises sprinkled in

 

[AquaticPanic]

While I don't have many hopes of Tera staying in Singles, I am curious to see if Doubles can handle it. Super STAB sounds more manageable on a format where you have two mons on the field at a time.

 

[R_N]

tera parakeet will save the meta

 

[AztecCroc]

Watch it not get Dragon Dance.

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

 

[Sirya]

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

Why not.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Honestly, I'm fine with the duck's stats. It's what I wanted Poliwrath to be.

Now, if the design sucks...

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

Because ducks are birds are dinosaurs are dragons.

 

[AquaticPanic]

I think it may actually get Victory Dance instead. Obviously we don't know what effect that has in the mainline games yet, but if its really Physical QD as speculated, Quaquaval suddenly jumps up in viability a fair bit

 

[Eclairius]

My main (as only VGC and BSS player) defending point on "tera not broken" is that the consequences of Teralyzing arent as dramatic as Dynamax ones.
While the superstab is definitely worth of note, ultimately the powerboost from both superstab and regular "extra stab" terastalyzing aren't exactly higher than a Dynamax move, but are limited to a single type, don't have special effects (compared to boosting stats / setting field conditions), and don't arbitrarly make the pokemon using it bulkier enough to tank things it has no business tanking, just changes its resists/immunities.

This. This so much.
To put in perspective:
The average power of a move (factoring accuracy and things like recharge) would generally go up x1.3-x1.5 with dynamax, depending on what kind of secondary effect was overwritten. In some extreme cases like 30% flinching or 2-turns moves this goes up to x1.8-x2. A few moves do lose power or stay the same, but they're the minority.
This is the equivalent of having the offensive tera bonus on every stab and coverage at the same time. And that's without mentioning the bonus effects.
A pokemon dynamaxing with max dynamax level has x2 HP.
This is the equivalent of gaining a resist on every single type. No giving up resist, no gaining new weaknesses.
There is also the issues of special interactions like flinching or protect.
Dynamax isn't just unpredictable, it's also all emcompassing.
That's the deadly combo. You only have 3 turns, but it's 3 turn where you are in command and can do everything you want. In a game that's won by breaking apart your oppenement ability to respond to you, its unpredictability make it close to a press-to-win button. That's also the reason it isn't as obnoxious in doubles, since the oppenement isn't robbed of as much of his ability to play as in single.
On the other hand, tera may be even more unpredictable (due to the type factor) and have more staying power due to no turn limit, but it isn't all encompassing at all, which means you have so much more room to deal with it.

 

[Perriechu]

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

they potentially meant victory dance..?

but also.. whiscash and barboach (and crawdaunt, scrafty, salazzle)

 

[SnapDrakeGames]

It's a duck, why would it get Dragon Dance?

Well the male ones are drakes so...

 

[Soulja]

if Quaquaval were to get Dragon Dance for any reason at all it'd be because its a dancer and they'd wanna give it all the dance moves save for the signature ones like Revelation Dance and Lunar Dance.