SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Worldie]

I hate the hidden abilities. Ever singe Gen 5, every starter line clearly plays favorites and even retroactively played favorites for older Gens. And yet again they clearly are playing favorite by making Meowscarada a fast physical attacker with Protean, despite being a magician because they just have to have. It was expected to get an op ability, but couldn’t they have given it Magic Guard or Magic Bounce? Like you know a magician being magical.
Skeledirge looks like it could be decent if it gets proper recovery, but it’s kind of clear they wanted to kill its viability. It’s dumb that it gets Unaware when it doesn’t look like it would ever get Unaware in a million years, but hey at least Weedcat is guaranteed to be good.
I feel similarly about Quaquaval having such an underwhelming ability that doesn’t really fit it, but is the most fitting ability here at least.

We’ll never have a starter group like Sinnoh starters and Hoenn starters pre-HAs where the starters are relatively balanced (and yeah, Torterra used to be actually good in Gen 4).

To be fair I'm not quite sure how much they attempt to make starters "viable" (expecially considering HAs don't get released until way later in the gen), and if they rather go for "design first, stats later".

Like, it's possible they just wanted to make "grass cat that becomes magician, crocodile but fire, and donald duck if he was made in 2022", and only after that decided to see what abilities would fit the theme, considering starters are basically "locked" to the starter abilities as normal ones, differently from other pokemon that generally get abilities for flavour.
And their actual viability is just an afterthought/consequence, and not something preemptively thought of.

 

[PlusC]

I feel like Gen 9 would be a good time to get rid of the usual XU naming covention and switch to a numbered tiering.

Tier 0 is anything goes, Tier 1 can start as Tier 0 with the usual QoL clauses and ban things as it progresses. Then Tier 2 can be the less used Pokemon, again with its own ban list and so on.

The current naming convention is daft when there's like 8 official tiers and its completely non intuitive. It's also hard to believe there is nothing balanced between OU and Ubers.

 

[R_N]

To be fair I'm not quite sure how much they attempt to make starters "viable" (expecially considering HAs don't get released until way later in the gen), and if they rather go for "design first, stats later".

Like, it's possible they just wanted to make "grass cat that becomes magician, crocodile but fire, and donald duck if he was made in 2022", and only after that decided to see what abilities would fit the theme, considering starters are basically "locked" to the starter abilities as normal ones, differently from other pokemon that generally get abilities for flavour.
And their actual viability is just an afterthought/consequence, and not something preemptively thought of.

Even in this instance i would have pegged "dancer who kicks to fight" as the fast physical attacker and the magician to be, you know. not. the fast physical attacker.

And certainly not one with Protean.

 

[doipy hooves]

Hi guys, can someone give me the stat image for Paradox Mon in the max quality we got ?

Hide

EDIT: Speaking of which, the theme of their stats is that the past mons have odd stat numbers and the future mons have even stat numbers.

 

[Worldie]

Even in this instance i would have pegged "dancer who kicks to fight" as the fast physical attacker and the magician to be, you know. not. the fast physical attacker.

And certainly not one with Protean.

Yeh ngl the Protean thing just feels weird.
It's one of these things I'll only believe when I actually see it, cause it kinda feels out of place, expecially after gen 8 had "thematically based" HAs.

 

[Kiga]

Wait a sec, I just noticed something guys

Big brain time

So know how people were saying that Roaring Moon looks a bit more like Mega Salamence than regular Salamence?

View attachment 463635View attachment 463636
I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I was looking at its counterpart, Iron Valiant, and I noticed that I don’t think it’s actually Gallade + Gardevoir as people were claiming. I think it’s based specifically on Mega Gallade!

View attachment 463637View attachment 463638
SO GAME FREAK REMEMBERED THAT MEGAS EXISTED

…Oh, and I’m curious what it means for the lore too of course lol

EDIT: Actually, I think Iron Valiant does have Gardevoir in it after all.

…Mega Gardevoir! Look at the sleeves:

View attachment 463639

You should look at Valiant a lot harder if all you notice from Gardevoir is the sleeves.

View attachment 463643View attachment 463644

It has Gallade's lower body and M-Gallade's cape, but the cape doesn't just hang behind it. It starts to wrap around the body into a more open style of Gardevoir's dress. The waist up is all Gardevoir, except for the horn on the head.

Its waist is noticeably thinner than its chest, a trait that only Gardevoir has. The chest itself is obviously Gardevoir's, as is the head and face, with the exception of the upright horn. The arms don't have the obvious blades that either of the Gallade forms do, and are more in line with a gauntlet version of Mega Gardevoir's "gloves".

Discounting the accessories that are behind it, which are hard to make out and that don't fit either form, this looks, in fact, more like it should be referred to as Paradox Gardevoir. It's very obviously a fusion, but if you put this in front of anyone who hasn't been following the leaks and hadn't already digested it as Paradox Gallade, they would see Gardevoir's face and dress, and think that it was a future form of Gardevoir, not of Gallade.

 

[AtlasFlame18]

I feel like Gen 9 would be a good time to get rid of the usual XU naming covention and switch to a numbered tiering.

Tier 0 is anything goes, Tier 1 can start as Tier 0 with the usual QoL clauses and ban things as it progresses. Then Tier 2 can be the less used Pokemon, again with its own ban list and so on.

The current naming convention is daft when there's like 8 official tiers and its completely non intuitive. It's also hard to believe there is nothing balanced between OU and Ubers.

You would just be creating usage based tiers with extra steps. The set up Smogon has now is fine as is. (Aside from not making ZU an official tier yet)

 

[PlusC]

You would just be creating usage based tiers with extra steps. The set up Smogon has now is fine as is. (Aside from not making ZU an official tier yet)

My complaint is mainly with the non-intuitive naming scheme and the "top" tiers being so divided. Just arbitrarily banning a ton of Pokemon from the offset has always felt off to me.

 

[Count Bleck]

How can a billion dollar company have such a terrible PR and marketing department?The game went from looking like a 5/10 to something i actually want to buy in a single night of leaks.
Almost all the new mons look rad,that new quagsire evo might be my new favorite,its too cute.
The only bad one so far its lechonks evo,but this might be one of the best pokedex so far.

SV is the most pre ordered pokemon game of all time. The vast majority of people dont care about leaks. We're just nerds who care way too much about games, the marketting for SV has been a smash hit.

 

[Cuddly]

To be fair I'm not quite sure how much they attempt to make starters "viable" (expecially considering HAs don't get released until way later in the gen), and if they rather go for "design first, stats later".

Like, it's possible they just wanted to make "grass cat that becomes magician, crocodile but fire, and donald duck if he was made in 2022", and only after that decided to see what abilities would fit the theme, considering starters are basically "locked" to the starter abilities as normal ones, differently from other pokemon that generally get abilities for flavour.
And their actual viability is just an afterthought/consequence, and not something preemptively thought of.

I’m sure they do make the designs first, but they saw Meowscarada and slapped it with Shill: The Ability and Shill: The Stat distribution. Like besides the weaker offensive stat, Meowscarada has better stats than Greninja. Compare that to Skeledirge getting Decidueye like stats just swapped HP with Atk and Def with SpD, and Quaquaval not getting a single stat besides Atk above 90, and that 120 isn’t even the highest stat between the 3 either.

 

[Fusion Flare]

Skeledirge w Unaware sounds nice until you realize that we’re looking at a physically defensive unaware user with a weakness to knock, eq, stone edge and sr.

 

[Worldie]

Skeledirge w Unaware sounds nice until you realize that we’re looking at a physically defensive unaware user with a weakness to knock, eq, stone edge and sr.

Well that's not THAT gloomy as it sounds... assuming moveset to support it, having high-ish phisical bulk means you can freely invest in the special one and still be able to take resisted phisical hits. Kinda like Melmetal invests in Spdef in the defensive sets because its phisical bulk is already good enough as is.

 

[wjacob260]

Parrot Paradox Form just leaked
View attachment 463649

I'M GONNA BOP YOU!

 

[AtlasFlame18]

My complaint is mainly with the non-intuitive naming scheme and the "top" tiers being so divided. Just arbitrarily banning a ton of Pokemon from the offset has always felt off to me.

But it's not arbitrary in the slightest. The Ubers tier is a banlist first and foremost. It's a competitive tier second. Thus many of the Pokémon in Ubers are there because they are too strong for OU NOT because they are good in Ubers.

The naming scheme being non-intuitive is subjective since these tier names have been around for well over a decade.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Skeledirge w Unaware sounds nice until you realize that we’re looking at a physically defensive unaware user with a weakness to knock, eq, stone edge and sr.

Easy, we just ban Landorus-T

 

[Worldie]

Easy, we just ban Landorus-T

Counterpoint, we free Landorus-I instead so Skeledirge can wall it

 

[Cuddly]

Skeledirge w Unaware sounds nice until you realize that we’re looking at a physically defensive unaware user with a weakness to knock, eq, stone edge and sr.

Skeledirge was a generation off from being a Zacian-C counter along with Quagsire, which makes it even more tragic.

 

[Fusion Flare]

Skeledirge was a generation off from being a Zacian-C counter along with Quagsire, which makes it even more tragic.

>crunch

 

[Worldie]

>crunch

Daily reminder that Pokemon is not a 1v1 game, and running Crunch on Zacian would have meant being walled by much more dangerous stuff like Ho-oh instead of 1hkoing with Wild Charge.

Skeledirge was a generation off from being a Zacian-C counter along with Quagsire, which makes it even more tragic.

Good news, it'll have it chance to shine in the inevitable restricted format in 2 years

 

[Cuddly]

>crunch

It would tank it
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 170-200 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Takes about the same as Quagsire does

 

[doipy hooves]

I edited it in but I want to point out that it's neat that the past mons have odd numbered stats and the future mons have even numbers.

Here's what Khu had to say about the recent reveals. At this point I feel more sided towards the spreadsheet when it comes to the inconsistencies despite not knowing where they came from, but in the big picture he and Kaka got pretty close, especially for being vague about it.
On the paradox abilities: "They will be shit without buff from leaders"
On Protean: "Protean was nerfed"
On preferring Violet: "Future group acts well in game, with more interesting movements. Morphing time."
Favorite paradoxes: "My favorite: future moth, Santa(it’s fun when you see its movement), hardcore queen (most ppl were misled by spoon with insisting on calling it Gallade), that stupid ancient mag, and also moon."
On names: "Actual names"
On the 3 DLC mons: "Well they erased PS and PV data, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t see them in game, those 3, looking forward to witnessing them."
On Salamence and Gallade: "2 nobles"

Hopefully we can get the full data sooner than later to quell some of the rumormongering about abilities and such.

 

[Soulja]

what do y'all think Bisharp's evolution will be like? It already has 490 BST. I personally think its going to get the Rhyperior stat treatment, which is like just +10 to a few stats. Rhydon also has 485 BST.

then again we recently got Ursaluna, and Ursaring's a BST of 500, so maybe it could go down that route and have more significant changes.

I could see it get the slightly slower but bulkier and harder hitting treatment from just looking at it, especially bc of how BIG it is compared to Bisharp.

 

[Gladio]

You should look at Valiant a lot harder if all you notice from Gardevoir is the sleeves.

View attachment 463643View attachment 463644

It has Gallade's lower body and M-Gallade's cape, but the cape doesn't just hang behind it. It starts to wrap around the body into a more open style of Gardevoir's dress. The waist up is all Gardevoir, except for the horn on the head.

Its waist is noticeably thinner than its chest, a trait that only Gardevoir has. The chest itself is obviously Gardevoir's, as is the head and face, with the exception of the upright horn. The arms don't have the obvious blades that either of the Gallade forms do, and are more in line with a gauntlet version of Mega Gardevoir's "gloves".

Discounting the accessories that are behind it, which are hard to make out and that don't fit either form, this looks, in fact, more like it should be referred to as Paradox Gardevoir. It's very obviously a fusion, but if you put this in front of anyone who hasn't been following the leaks and hadn't already digested it as Paradox Gallade, they would see Gardevoir's face and dress, and think that it was a future form of Gardevoir, not of Gallade.

In defense of Gallade, the hair shape and overall green pigment is like Gardevoir's, but the side spikes (and therefore the white face itself) are clearly Gallade's as there are two per side and they are longer and sharper, as opposed to Gardevoir's frillier and 3-per-side ones. So it's a fusion of the two, having even elements from both.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Even in this instance i would have pegged "dancer who kicks to fight" as the fast physical attacker and the magician to be, you know. not. the fast physical attacker.

And certainly not one with Protean.

It's a illusionist, not a "real" magician like Delphox. Its gimmick is mostly sleight of hand tricks (can be more clearly seen in the pre-evo with the flower yoyo) so the stat line and ability at least somewhat fit even if they're just "Cinderace but better".
Quaquaval's stats also are very similar to Blaziken so I wouldn't say they're mismatched, it's just the speed that is disappointingly low for what it is supposed to do. It never had a chance with a Fighting-Water Tauros in the dex anyway.

 

[Dive Missile]

what do y'all think Bisharp's evolution will be like? It already has 490 BST. I personally think its going to get the Rhyperior stat treatment, which is like just +10 to a few stats. Rhydon also has 485 BST.

then again we recently got Ursaluna, and Ursaring's a BST of 500, so maybe it could go down that route and have more significant changes.

I could see it get the slightly slower but bulkier and harder hitting treatment from just looking at it, especially bc of how BIG it is compared to Bisharp.

i was thinking the same way, bisharps stats are solid but low enough that they could reasonably get a small bump without being absurd. tbh, i wonder if eviolite bisharp will be a decent option. his defensive typing is pretty good and he does learn stealth rock... no recovery whatsoever though.