Regarding Physical Walls. I might miss the point here.

[Lou Cypher]

OK, please correct me if I'm wrong. Skarmory is the prime phyiscal wall in RSE due to his high DEF and his slew of resistances/immunities, right? Now, considering there are things on the physical part that can hit him SE, that part falls away.

Enter Steelix. He, too, has some immunities he brings to the table, other weaknesses (Ground, Fighting and Fire come to mind mainly, Water, too), but a whopping 60 base DEF more. He can also roar and go explodey on your opponent should the situation call for it.

Then there is Regirock. He, too, packs different weaknesses and resistances, but he too can fill in very well. To add to that, he has nice Sp. DEF which can be increased even more easily by Sandstorm.

Other pokes that got more DEF as Skarm are:
- Shuckle (lol)
- Cloyster
- Aggron
- Bastiodon
- Registeel
- Probopass

Each of these have different weakness, tho the Fighting one is pretty common here. However, they lack some weaknesses Skarmory does have. So considering the resistance thing is less of an issue with the split, why don't these guys get more light as tanks? Some have downfalls too big to ignore (Such as Cloyster who just has too many weaks), but most of them seem pretty solid.

 

[Akayfortyseven]

Shuckle cant do a thing against taunt, sub, or anything in general.
Cloyster has to many weaks, but i like spikes + spin
Aggron, bastiodon and probopass are all 4x weak to extremely common attacks, and the latter 2 cant really do much either.
Registeel hasnt really got anything over forretress or skarmory.

All lack a good recovery move bar rest.

 

[Mekkah]

The physical/special split was considered Skarmory's downfall when we didn't have too much info. But Misty pointed out with a new topic that it's highly overrated. Let's look at these new "physical weaknesses" Skarmory has.

For Fire, there's Flare Drive and Fire Punch as the strongest physical Fire attacks. Flare Drive is only on Fire Pokemon which Skarmory wasn't going to fight in Advance even if you held a gun to its head. Fire Punch is rather weak (as powerful as Focus Punch is on Skarmory) and nothing really uses it.

For Electric, similiar deal. Volt Tackle is exclusive to Pikachu and Raichu, and again, Skarmory has no business with them anyway. Thunderpunch is the next strongest attack. Besides Electrics (among others Electrivire), the only things I can think up right now that may want Thunderpunch, besides some really UU dudes, are Slaking and Metagross. Slaking does equal damage with Focus Punch, which is the move you'll be replacing, so it makes 0 difference, except if Skarmory is already up against Slaking and using Drill Peck or something. Misty calculated Thunderpunch from Metagross does about equal damage (3HKO from both max Attack in DP and min SpAtt in Adv).

So in short, Skarmory is still the best physical wall. Everything you listed has severe issues. Shuckle doesn't do damage, Cloyster has a grand total of two resistances (and is also an Ice type which in general is dumb), Aggron, Probopass and Bastiodon are put to shame by 4x weaknesses and Registeel lacks any kind of offense.

EDIT: Stop beating me to it! Also, Steelix is a cool Pokemon, but again there's really a big lack of offense. The weakness to Close Combat, Waterfall and Earthquake makes him incomparable to Skarmory, just like the other examples you listed.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

I was just wondering if weezing is considered a physical wall and if it would be useable.

 

[Mekkah]

Weezing is a good Pokemon as ever. It's not a Steel obviously so you can't switch it into, say, Staraptor or Tauros without pain. It does fend off Heracross (Fire Blast or maybe Sludge Bomb) and Gyarados (Thunderbolt) nicely though, and Pain Split is not a bad recovery move at all compared to being forced to Rest. And it can Explode, of course.

You can't say it replaces Skarmory but it's good on its own.

 

[striker64]

How about Bronzong? Like Skarmory, it resists one of the most common moves (Earthquake) and takes neutral damage from another common type (Fighting). It can Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Reflect/Light Screen, and Explode, among other things.

 

[Hill]

I was about to say that. Even with less Defense, Bronzong has an awesome defensive type+ability combo and can even hit something with Grass Knot, Gyro Ball or Earthquake. His attack stat is not that bad either.

 

[cookie]

Steelix got shafted in D/P, now it can't even wall the standard Heracross any more, and doesn't stand a chance against Gyarados.

 

[Lord Alchemy]

Skarmory rocks mainly because Steel typing is awesome and EQ immunity is even more awesome. It appears that if you want to stand a chance of surviving a CB Garchomp Outrage you need to either be a Steel type or a Max HP Max Def Cresselia, otherwise you're getting 2HKO'd which is no good for countering.

Brongzong is also another interesting choice, but I think I need to run damage calcs on him. IIRC, Skarmory gets 3HKO'd with Leftovers by CBchomp with Outrage so I'm not positive on how well Brongzong will do.

Skarmory is really better now too since Roost is plain sexy.

 

[Deck Knight]

How about Magnezone? To be sure, it can't ever switch in on Earthquake, but EQ'ers can't switvh in on it. It packs a wallop with 130 SA Thunderbolt, can nuke itself if need be (70 Base attack at least beats Trode and Gengar). EV'ing would be a problem though, as you'd need to give it a little speed to outrun Swampert and co. Either way, it also has 90 SD (much more than many other physical walls listed can say) and learns Mirror Coat if you realloy want it to.

To be sure the fire, fighting, and ground weaknesses aren't great. Unfortunatelt, Skarm is the only physical wall that is nuetrral to 2/3 of Steel's inherent weaknesses.

 

[Hrothgar]

Bronzong falls into the can't-do-crap-but-sit-there category similar to probopass and bastiodon, but as far as sitting goes, it can sit twice as good as those other two. Still can't compare to skarm, though. Magnezone has better things to do, i think.

I'm interested in testing Gliscor as a physical wall. You'd definitely have to be more careful with it, but the improved offensive capabilities could make it worth the effort. It's like Skarm with less resistances and STAB earthquake.

 

[teekay]

Yeah, I was gonna mention Gliscor. Can't take ice hits, but man is it ever a great Heracross counter.

 

[Lord Alchemy]

Walling a CB Garchomp Outrage is manly, and the main reason I think all physical tanks should be steel. Otherwise this thing will run wild on you.

LAZY calculations follow:

Testing out Gliscor:
Garchomp(Jolly, Max Attack IVs/EVs) attack with CB = 538
Gliscor Max Defense (EVs/IVs/Beneficial Nature) = 383
Gliscor HP = 354
Gliscor Leftovers recovery = 22

42 * 120 * 538 / 384 /50 +2 *1.5 = ~214

354-214+22= 162 HP left

Hallo thar 2HKO.

Now for Bronzong:
Max HP = 338
Max Defense = 364
HP recovered through Leftovers = 21


42 * 120 * 538 / 364 /50 +2 *1.5 *0.5 = ~113

338-113+21= 246 HP left.

Dang, thats a 4HKO with Leftovers, 3HKO without.

Not bad. Levitate also gives him nice EQ immunity.

Really appears that walling this gen is all about typing (as stated few dozen times already). I'm pretty sure that all my teams will run Skarmory though. I think I have a love/hate relationship with CBchomp.

 

[Payton64]

gliscor can cover his water weakness up with t-fang. i'm experimenting with bronzong and i love it. i need a suggestion on mine. should i give it gyro ball or EQ for it's main attacking move? EQ covers fire types, but gyro ball does more damage (iirc). explosion and 2 support moves will be the other moves.

 

[Mekkah]

The way I see it, a definition of "physical wall" would be a Pokemon that takes physical hits well. But nothing takes all of them well, it's more important to rely on a couple of resistances now. Skarmory is a good counter for a lot of physical attackers, but now that you got some very annoying Fighters out there (Close Combat Heracross and Flare Drive Infernape), you will need more with an above average defense stat.

You don't really need "a physical wall" on your team per se anyway. You need an Infernape counter, a Heracross counter, a Gyarados counter, etc etc. "1 Physical sweeper/1 Special sweeper/1 Special wall/1 Physical wall" was never a good scheme of things and completely fails in DP, so I don't see what looking for a physical wall is good for.

And calling Magnezone one is kinda funny, you'd expect a physical wall to hold up against physical attackers, but he loses to about 70% of them because of Earthquake, Fighting and Fire weakness. It's mostly good for Choice Banded hits.

EDIT:

Gliscor doesn't cover his Water weakness with Thunderfang. It helps against Gyarados but that's it. A neutral Earthquake is more powerful than a super effective Thunderfang. On Bronzong, use Gyro Ball if you fear Gengar and some other fast fuckers. Earthquake if you don't want to get trapped by Magnezone and hurt Metagross and stuff. I wouldn't worry about Fire types and just switch out of them. Personally I'd want to use Grass Knot on Bronzong because it's one of the few (if not the only) Pokemon that can switch in on Rhyperior's Earthquake, Rock move AND Avalanche without getting insta-killed by Megahorn.

 

[Lou Cypher]

You can say a lot about Magnezone, but if he doesnt switch in on Quake, he can always Magnet Rise.

Either way he has better things to do as walling. Still, I wonder now about something different. How many damage would a SD'ed Jolly Garchomp's Earthquake do to a Steelix with min DEF/Max HP? And max DEF?

 

[Surgo]

Use a damage calculator? In any case, Steelix isn't taking on Garchomp at any point, ever.

 

[Mekkah]

The point of a physical wall is to switch into physical attackers. If that physical attacker has Earthquake, that's risky business. If Magnezone is slower than that physical attacker, it's suicide. No matter how you twist or turn it, it's not a physical wall.

Lou Cypher: there's plenty of damage calculators out there, I recommend you get one. I also recommend you keep Steelix out of Garchomp's way unless you like to see it suffer for some reason.

EDIT: goddamn fat surgo

 

[Lou Cypher]

Where can I get those? The one I once got was too complicated, I'm too lazy to go through all different calculations...

 

[Surgo]

I'm too lazy to go through all different calculations...

The rest of us are too lazy to calculate shit for you, so I guess you're stuck.

Damage calculators: two in the contributions and corrections forum (one in perl, one in mirc script), Psypoke, Metalkid's site. Surely more, just google it.

 

[Lord Alchemy]

Shit, just do the damage calcs with the damage formula, notepad and the built in windows calculator. Not that hard.

 

[striker64]

To the above poster that did the calculations with CBChomp Outrage vs. Bronzong... that's actually pretty damn good for walling Garchomp, or pretty much any physical attack, but what could Bronzong do back to Garchomp? Don't get me wrong, I love Bronzong as a wall and I use it, but even I'm having a hard time deciding exactly what to do once I send it out and something else is already asleep. Is Grass Rope going to do much to Garchomp?

Surely by the time Bronzong switches in and attacks it will have already taken 2 Outrages. Barring any confusion hits, it can take 2 more, leaving 2 turns to attack. There's nothing that immediately comes to mind that Bronzong can do to 2HKO Garchomp.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Why thank you for being so kind. Seriously man, not everybody is as obsessed as some people are, sheez. I just ask for some pointers and what do I get? I politely ask where I can find a good damage calculator and I get a "Guess you're stuck" answer. Way to help newer people.

 

[teekay]

It was because your "I'm too lazy" comment insinuates that you expect other people to do it for you because you don't feel like it, which is kind of rude.

 

[Lord Alchemy]

To the above poster that did the calculations with CBChomp Outrage vs. Bronzong... that's actually pretty damn good for walling Garchomp, or pretty much any physical attack, but what could Bronzong do back to Garchomp? Don't get me wrong, I love Bronzong as a wall and I use it, but even I'm having a hard time deciding exactly what to do once I send it out and something else is already asleep. Is Grass Rope going to do much to Garchomp?

Surely by the time Bronzong switches in and attacks it will have already taken 2 Outrages. Barring any confusion hits, it can take 2 more, leaving 2 turns to attack. There's nothing that immediately comes to mind that Bronzong can do to 2HKO Garchomp.

Its all about the resists. I'm sure Steelix would wall the hell out of a CBchomp using Outrage, but his typing makes him iffy since as a physical wall he wouldn't work very well against Chomps CB'd EQs(which skarm and Zong nullify).

Anyways, Bronzong is interesting. I haven't looked at him much namely because I've been looking at Skarm and Cresselia for my walling needs. Hypnosis I think is the only real option to disable Chomps and force a switch. Zong simply can't beat up anything.