Raikou (Full Revamp) +

I Can't Believe RaikouLover Hasn't Done This!

(electriclegendaries <333)

Things to change:
  • some set comments are bit lacking. elaborate.
  • move the sleep talker to the end, maybe even remove it.
  • add signal beam
  • choice scarf set (i feel its different enough from the specs to warrant its own berth)
  • edit other options (magnet rise?) and counters (fo sho)
 
[SET]
name: Substitute + Calm Mind
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Calm Mind
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 68 HP / 116 SpA / 72 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set, for the less observant readers, is basically identical to the standard Raikou in ADV. With the only real changes to his movepool being the addition of Shadow Ball to replace the now-physical Crunch, the addition of Discharge and Signal Beam, and the ability to (sort of) use Hyper Beam more effectively, Raikou is more or less the same Pokémon it was in Advance.</p>

<p>This set works the same way it always did. Get a Substitute up against something that can't do 25% to you, or use Calm Mind in order to prevent the opposition from doing that magical 25%, and then get a Substitute up and continue to Calm Mind. With enough Calm Minds up, special attackers will eventually need two or more hits to break your Substitute, allowing you to recover more Hit Points while shielded safely behind your Substitute. Much of the set-up fodder for this set from Advance is much less popular now or went off and evolved - such as Suicune, Milotic, and Magneton (Magnezone, now) - so setting Raikou up will take a bit more prediction than it did in ADV.</p>

<p>As far as EVs go, you really don't need too much in Special Attack here, although investing at least 80 EVs or so is beneficial since it's repeatedly getting boosted by Calm Mind. Speed is of great moment since you want to get your Substitutes off before you get hit, and in general with a Pokémon as quick as Raikou, going first against other fast, defensively inept Pokémon is a big deal. Remaining EVs can be placed in Special Defense and HP, in order to help you survive while powering up.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Extrasensory / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Fairly standard Choice Specs user. Raikou is fast and hits hard with base 115 in both Special Attack and Speed, allowing it to use the Choice Specs fairly well.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is an obvious option on this set, being Raikou's most reliable STAB move. Signal Beam is mainly for Celebi, as well as other, less-seen Grass-types such as Tangrowth. It is also a decent resistance-less move to use when you are unsure of what your opponent will switch-in. Hidden Power Grass hits both Rhyperior and Swampert hard, while Hidden Power Ice will OHKO all Salamence. It is important to note, however, that a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Raikou will do 70.9% - 83.9% to 120 HP Salamence, a guarenteed 2HKO and a OHKO 67% of the time when Stealth Rock is added to the picture. Given that Thunderbolt will also always 2HKO most Dragonite (doing 65.9% - 78.0% to min/min, a 21% chance of a OHKO with Stealth Rock), it is clear that hitting Rhyperior and Swampert, who otherwise wall Raikou - the former due to Sandstorm boosting its Special Defense and the latter thanks to neutrality and good defenses - is more important. Other viable Hidden Power types include Hidden Power Ground and Hidden Power Fighting. Hidden Power Ground will OHKO Magnezone, who can otherwise switch in unscathed thanks to its resistances to Raikou's other moves, as well as Heatran, though the prevalence of Scarfed Heatran with Earth Power means you'll have to nail it on the switch, rather than being able to come in for a revenge kill. Hidden Power Fighting will hit Tyranitar, and also give you decent coverage on the aforementioned Magnezone. If you opt for Choice Scarf over Choice Specs, stick with Hidden Power Ice, as without the boost from Specs, Thunderbolt doesn't have the oomph it needs to be a reliable option for flying Dragons like Salamence.</p>

<p>Shadow Ball hits the Rotom formes for super effective damage, who otherwise will wall Raikou almost forever with resistances to key moves. Extrasensory is quite useful for a guaranteed revenge kill on pesky Fighting-types like Infernape, as well as being Raikou's best option to hit other various Pokémon like Heracross, Breloom, and Machamp. Sleep Talk can be used in a pinch when you need something to absorb sleep. The last slot can also be substituted for a support move such as Light Screen or Thunder Wave or one of Raikou's other offensive options, like Signal Beam, though these provide mediocre coverage and will rarely be used anyway. Discharge can also be used to paralyze a would-be counter on the initial switch-in.</p>

<p>The EVs for such a set are rather basic, but they get the job done. Raikou wants all the Speed it can get, and maxing Special Attack on a Choice set should be obvious. If you're using Scarf, instead of Specs, you can lower your Speed investment down to 216 and dump the extra into HP. This allows you to beat Timid Scarfed Gengar, and the additional HP helps to switch-in more easily.</p>


[SET]
name: Offensive Booster
move 1: Calm Mind / Charge Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Shadow Ball / Roar
item: Life Orb
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Raikou's 115 Special Attack and 115 Speed stats are seemingly built for an offensive set, and with decent defenses to switch in and set up, this can be made a reality through either Calm Mind or Charge Beam.</p>

<p>The basis for this set is a quick set up with either Calm Mind or Charge Beam. Both have their advantages; Calm Mind will always boost your Special Attack (in addition to Special Defense), while Charge Beam can do damage while you're boosting up your Special Attack. On the other hand, Charge Beam has a chance of missing with only 90% accuracy, and even then, the one-stage boost is not guaranteed. </p>

<p>Once you have some sort of boost (really, only one is necessary), you can proceed to sweep with Raikou's other moves. Thunderbolt is an obvious choice, as the most reliable STAB move in Raikou's movepool. On this set, you can afford to forego Hidden Power Ice, as with a one stage boost and Life Orb (which is effectively a x1.95 boost), you manage to deal 92.2% - 108.9% (53.9% chance of OHKO) to 120/0 Salamence and 85.8% - 101.2% (2.6% chance of OHKO) to min/min Dragonite, both of which are guaranteed OHKOs when Stealth Rock is added to the picture. Swampert, who usually can counter grounded Electric-types such as Raikou, and Rhyperior are both decimated by Hidden Power Grass, boosted or not. A boosted Hidden Power Fighting has a 100% chance to OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar with Stealth Rock in the picture, Tyranitar will always be OHKOed by that same attack, and as it will also hit Magnezone for good damage, it is a viable option. Shadow Ball can KO the standard Rotom formes after Stealth Rock, and Roar can be used during Calm Mind wars versus opposing Jirachi or Raikou. You can Calm Mind up while they are as well, and then use Roar. Your opponent will end up with 0 boosts, and you'll have a Life Orb Raikou with several Calm Minds ready to wreak havoc on your opponent's team. Keep in mind that a boosted Thunderbolt can 2HKO the Rotom formes after Stealth Rock, meaning you can opt for Roar without missing out on too much.</p>


[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Discharge / Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Underrated as a Sleep Talker, this version of Raikou is less susceptible to the Toxic Spikes, as well as other status, that tend to ruin other Raikou sets. Played conservatively, Raikou can last a long time with Rest combined with base 90 HP and base 100 Special Defense. Sleep Talkers are very often underrated, until a presumptuous Breloom comes along and disables a key member of your team with Spore. </p>

<p>While Thunderbolt is certainly Raikou's most reliable STAB move, Discharge is generally a better option on a more defensive set like this one - you'll have more opportunities to hit and therefore a better chance to paralyze your opponent. Charge Beam is another option that can take advantage of this Raikou's ability to last a long time, allowing you to boost up while Resting off any damage your opponent inflicts on you. Hidden Power Ice is generally the move that gives the best coverage alongside your STAB Electric move of choice; however, Hidden Power Grass is certainly a viable option to keep Swampert and Rhyperior in check. As with the Substitute + Calm Mind set, Hidden Power Ground is a viable option, but then you'd be completely walled by Pokémon such as Gliscor and Flygon, who, as rare as they are, could use you to set up.</p>

<p>The given EVs allow Raikou to outspeed all +natured base 100s, such as Salamence and Zapdos. HP is then maxed in order to maximize your defenses and then the rest is put into Special Defense to take special hits better. Putting excess EVs into Defense or Special Attack is certainly viable, to take hits from the likes of Scizor better or give a bigger boost if you use Charge Beam.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>For a legendary Pokémon Raikou is really limited in the movepool department. You can choose to use Discharge over Thunderbolt, trading 22.5 base power for a 20% greater chance to paralyze on any given set; but, in general, Raikou is the type of Pokémon who benefits a bit more from the power Thunderbolt provides, with the main exception to this being the Sleep Talk set, which is more about longevity. Signal Beam works decently well on the more offensive minded sets to get a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi, but Shadow Ball is usually more effective as it also hits the Rotom formes for good damage.</p>

<p>With a Damp Rock attached, Raikou can set up Rain Dance for itself to abuse Thunder or for its teammates. Hidden Power Water is a decent option on a Rain Dance set because of the weather boosting its power and it gets good coverage with Electric. Light Screen and Reflect can work together on a dual screen set with Light Clay. Psych Up is another option, but as Raikou already learns the moves it needs in terms of stat-boosting, it's an inferior choice to Charge Beam or Calm Mind.</p>

[Hidden Power]
<p>Like many Electric-type Pokémon, Raikou's movepool is a bit lacking in the creativity department, featuring virtually no quality non-STAB Electric attacks. In cases where Hidden Power is not available, Shadow Ball, Extrasensory, or Signal Beam can be substituted in on the Calm Mind or Sleep Talk sets, but there is a massive effectiveness drop-off. This is simply the nature of the beast with Raikou; Hidden Power is almost essential for it to be a threat.</p>

<p>As it was in ADV, the question of which Hidden Power to pick is a relatively difficult one to answer. While Hidden Power Ice provides the best two-move coverage when paired with Thunderbolt, on the more offensive sets, the various targets, save Gliscor, of Hidden Power Ice are either OHKOed or 2HKOed by Thunderbolt itself, making Hidden Power Grass a more practical option on those sets. Defensive minded sets should generally use Hidden Power Ice, as Thunderbolt won't be strong enough on these sets. Hidden Power Fire is another option that you can use on a physically bulky set to help deal with Scizor. Yet more Hidden Power options include Fighting and Ground, both of which are mainly for Tyranitar and Magnezone. A +1 Life Orb Hidden Power Fighting will OHKO Tyranitar, one of Raikou's bigger counters, while both of those will leave you to the mercy of floating Ground-types such as Flygon and Gliscor.</p>

[EVs]
<p>EVs are pretty straightforward. Raikou wants max or nearly max Speed on all of nearly all its sets in order to avoid taking hits, particularly deadly Earthquakes that will get thrown at it by pretty much everything under the sun.</p>

<p>The Calm Mind + Substitute set doesn't need too much Special Attack. Put EVs in Special Defense and HP, enabling it to stat up a lot more easily.</p>

<p>For the Choice and Life Orb versions it is best to have its EVs polarized offensively, focusing on Special Attack and Speed to allow it hit as hard and fast as possible. If you opt for a Choice Scarf, it is possibly to drop some of the Speed in exchange for HP, going as low as 216 Spe EVs (enough to outpace Timid Gengar), because there isn't much in the Speed tier above 525. Modest is also an option if you don't care about Timid Scarf Gengar.</p>

<p>With Sleep Talk it can afford to have a little less Speed in favor of more HP and Special Defense to enable it to absorb special hits a bit better, but it still needs to be extremely careful not to eat random Earthquakes from other quick Pokémon. Pouring some excess EVs into Raikou's physical Defense is also an option, as it allows Raikou to come into threats like Scizor more easily. Defense EVs used in this way are even more effective if you opt for Hidden Power Fire to easily disintegrate a cocky Scizor.</p>


[Opinion]
<p>While it would certainly be unfair to say that the game is passing Raikou by, like a number of other Pokémon Raikou has changed very little since Advance and many other Pokémon have improved, making it worse by comparison. In spite of this, Raikou is fairly sturdy for a Pokémon as quick and powerful as it is, and while its movepool is subpar it does have the key moves with Hidden Power and Calm Mind that it needs to be successful. Raikou was a large part of the reason why teams felt the need to carry Blissey in Advance, and should players forget the fear Raikou once instilled in them, it is more than capable of surging back and sweeping teams.</p>

<p>Magneton, previously one of the Pokémon on which Raikou set up the very best on, evolved and can now break Raikou's Substitutes much more easily. Raikou now has to play a much more dangerous prediction game and risk getting Thunder Waved or hit by an Explosion. Many of the other Pokémon that Raikou found it easy to set up on are also seeing reduced usage, such as Vaporeon, and Milotic, further increasing the difficulty for Raikou to set up. Electivire's addition also does not please Raikou, as it defeats Raikou easily with Earthquake, is immune to Thunderbolt, and takes very little damage from Hidden Power. The popularity of teams that involve adverse weather through Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow slams Raikou as well, for Leftovers recovery is integral to its usage. While Raikou does appreciate the increase of Stealth Rock over Spikes, the third residual damage move should definitely not be forgotten, as it is perhaps the most brutal to the usage of most Raikou. Toxic Spikes wrecks any Raikou that does not have Rest, though moreso the Substitute versions than the Life Orb or Choice variants.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Seismic Toss Blissey as usual continues to be the bane of Raikou's existence. Without Seismic Toss, though, Raikou can use Blissey as set-up bait. Snorlax takes Raikou's attacks well with its astronomical HP and Special Defense and threatens with a powerful Return.

<p>Tyranitar can switch in easily thanks to Sandstorm boosting its Special Defense, and can hurt Raikou severely with Earthquake or Crunch. Sandstorm also hurts Raikou by nullifying its precious Leftovers recovery. Likewise, Raikou dislikes Abomasnow's Hail and other forms of residual damage, such as Toxic Spikes.</p>

<p>Electric-types such as the Rotom formes and Magnezone have an easy time switching into Raikou, but don't really threaten Raikou's good defenses. Jolteon in particular can use Raikou's Thunderbolt to recovery lost HP, but like the others, doesn't do much to hurt Raikou. Electivire can predict a Thunderbolt to switch in on, and thanks to Motor Drive, use Raikou to boost its Speed. Unlike the other Electric-types, Electivire can hurt Raikou on the on its weaker defensive spectrum - the physical end.</p>

<p>Raikou also has a very large problem with teams consisting of two Ground Pokémon, one who can take Hidden Power Grass, and one who can take Hidden Power Ice, effectively walling it regardless of which Hidden Power it possesses. Of course even with only one of the two Raikou is walled when it has the appropriate Hidden Power, being walled by Swampert, Whiscash, Mamoswine, and Quagsire with Ice and Garchomp, Flygon, and Gliscor with Grass. Raikou without Calm Mind or Choice Specs will have trouble with many of the Grass Pokémon who are able to restore their own HP, such as Celebi, Venusaur, and Meganium. Raikou also can't do very much to Electivire, who can come in all day on Thunderbolts and frequently on unboosted Hidden Powers. Finally, many Ground Pokémon who are not weak to Ice or Grass have an easy time with Raikou, such as Steelix and Camerupt. Raikou is also trapped and slain by Dugtrio unless it has a Substitute up or is using Choice Scarf. </p>
 
Similarly to Magnezone and Zapdos I'd vote for a little more emphasis on Hidden Power Grass, Thunderbolt will still hit Salamence and Dragonite hard anyway, but Hidden Power Grass will allow him to hit Swampert who is the bane of most electric types. The statistics also show that Swampert is used over twice as much as Flygon.
 
darkie, ill keep talking to this about you in pm.

edit: time for me to ramble, Raikou gets Charge Beam and Discharge, both would be really good on a sleep talk set imo

i already mentioned:

kd24: oh and i would fucking love a set called "CMKou has no weak (literally) with Magnet Rise / CM / Sub / Discharge
kd24: but that is gimmick
darkie: lol
darkie: hahaha

that actually seems like it could work maybe if done correctly but not being able to hurt ground-types is really bad so ill keep that on the shelf.

ok raikou has Reflect / Roar / Light Screen / Toxic / Discharge so a defensive set like Reflect / Light Screen / Discharge / Roar seems pretty good too.

ok ill admit i love discharge lol.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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Sleep Talk makes most sense as last move on Specs Raikou IMO.

RL is going to be _pissed_.
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Is there any specific reason you picked the HP, Special Attack, and Special Defense EVs that you did on the Calm Mind set? They seem a bit arbitrary.
 
Those the EVs I've been using. I was planning on explaining them specifically in the EVs section but I'll divulge here. Basically it makes setting up on Vaporeon easier. After a Calm Mind, 24 EV Vaporeon will always fail to break the Substitute with Surf. It also reaches 338 HP so it can survive 4 Seismic Tosses. They are -kind of- arbitrary, I admit, but Raikou is hard to EV for, and doesn't really have specific numbers it needs to aim for. Blissey will also fail to break the Sub with 108 SpA EVs (before any of Raikou's Calm Mind).

I am thinking to increase the SpD to accommodate min SpA Heat Wave from Zapdos, which currently does 23.96% - 28.40% before the Calm Mind. (Unless someone else has a more straightforward spread lol)
 
Well if after a Calm Mind, Zapdos will fail to break your sub, why must it not break your sub before? You are faster than Zapdos and I doubt it's going to be switching in unless its their only option.

And with Vaporeon, why would it stay in on something that can hit it with a STAB super-effective attack? A simpler EV spread would probably be better, just so Blissey can't break your sub.

EDIT: Agree on Shadow Ball being a great option with Rotom resisting STAB.
 
Light Screen on Choice Specs sucks, you will never use it...

Shadow Ball atleast hits Rotom. It needs to be slashed with Sleep Talk just for that reason. Light Screen and Reflect shoudn't even be mentioned on Choice Specs imo.
 
That set was a little controversial when you made a peer edit for it a while ago. I think it could be more viable now that Raikou has a way to easily beat Celebi.

[SET]
name: Offensive CM
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Signal Beam / Shadow Ball
item: Life Orb
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 SpD

obviously this is a WIP but I'd like to know the general consensus on a set like this (and also one with Charge Beam instead like here)
 
Not sure if Signal Beam is needed as Shadow Ball will do 77-91% to Celebi. The Signal Beam 100% KO is well worth it, but Shadow Ball does give slightly better coverage, like a stronger attack for Latias and doing more to Dusknoir and Cressy.

But yeah, the set is pretty potent, may want to explain how Calm Mind + Life Orb is a 1.95 boost and things you can OHKO after a Single Calm Mind.
 
[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Calm Mind
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 68 HP / 116 SpA / 72 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set, for the less observant readers, is basically identical to the standard Raikou in ADV. With the only real changes to his movepool being the addition of Shadow Ball to replace the now-physical Crunch, the addition of Discharge and Signal Beam, and the ability to (sort of) use Hyper Beam more effectively, Raikou is more or less the same Pokémon it was in Advance.</p>

<p>This set works the same way it always did. Get a Substitute up against something that can't do 25% to you, or use Calm Mind in order to prevent the opposition from doing that magical 25%, and then get a Substitute up and continue to Calm Mind. With enough Calm Minds up, Special Attackers will eventually need two or more hits to break your Substitute, allowing you to recover more Hit Points while shielded safely behind your Substitute. Much of the set-up fodder for this set from Advance is much less popular now or went off and evolved - such as Suicune, Milotic, and Magneton (Magnezone, now) - so setting Raikou up will take a bit more prediction than it did in ADV.</p>

<p>As far as EVs go, you really don't need too much in Special Attack here, although investing at least 80 EVs or so is beneficial since it's repeatedly getting boosted by Calm Mind. Speed is a huge deal since you want to get your Substitutes off before you get hit, and in general with a Pokémon as quick as Raikou going first against other fast, defensively inept Pokémon is a big deal (I'd reword the second clause, since it is weirdly phrased: ". . .and generally it's a big deal for quick Pokemon like Raikou to go first against other fast, defensively inept Pokemon." It's mainly just a rewording issue, because your version doesn't flow as well.). Remaining EVs can be placed in Special Defense and HP, in order to help you survive powering up.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Signal Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Shadow Ball / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Fairly standard Choice Specs user. Raikou is fast and hits hard with base 115 in both Special Attack and Speed, allowing it to use the Choice Specs fairly well. </p>

<p>Thunderbolt is an obvious option on this set, being Raikou's most reliable STAB move. Signal Beam is mainly for Celebi, as well as other, less-seen Grass-types such as Tangrowth. It is also a decent resistance-less (By this, you mean not much resists it? I'd call say it has decent neutral coverage instead, but that's personal preference.) move to use when you are unsure of what your opponent will switch-in. Hidden Power Grass hits both Rhyperior and Swampert hard, while Hidden Power Ice will OHKO all Salamence. It is important to note, however, that a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Raikou will do 70.9% - 83.9% to 120 HP Salamence, a OHKO 67% of the time (Assuming Stealth Rock is up, I guess? Though it's probably implied, it might be wise to say this at least once.). Given that Thunderbolt will also always 2HKO most Dragonite (doing 65.9% - 78.0% to min/min, a 21% chance of a OHKO), it is clear that hitting Rhyperior and Swampert, who otherwise wall Raikou - the former due to Sandstorm boosting its Special Defense and the latter thanks to neutrality and good defenses - is more important (I changed the commas to dashes because grammatically, it seemed like a run-on with commas. That's just a nitpicky and not necessarily needed change, though.). Other viable Hidden Power types include Hidden Power Ground and Hidden Power Fighting. Hidden Power Ground will OHKO Magnezone, who can otherwise switch in unscathed thanks to its resistances to Raikou's other moves, as well as Heatran, though the prevalence of Scarfed Heatran with Earth Power means you'll have to nail it on the switch, rather than being able to come in for a revenge kill. Hidden Power Fighting will hit Tyranitar, and also give you decent coverage on the aforementioned Magnezone and Heatran. Shadow Ball is mainly filler, but it does hit the Rotom formes for super effective damage. Sleep Talk can be used in a pinch when you need something to absorb sleep (I might be getting this mixed up with some other set, but does Sleep Talk work with Specs? I'm probably thinking of Taun / Torment, but I recall reading somewhere that you needed to switch after 1 turn because it fails, but I'm likely wrong on this.). The last slot can also be substituted for a support move such as Light Screen (I'm skeptical to the use of Light Screen when you'd have to switch the next turn, especially if you lack a spinner or lots of entry hazards are done. Thunder Wave provides similar problems, but since that cannot go away (excluding Natural Cure / Heal Bell / Aromatheropy), it seems somewhat viable. Light Screen just doesn't seem as good.) or Thunder Wave or one of Raikou's other offensive options, like Extrasensory, though these provide mediocre coverage and will rarely be used anyway.</p>

<p>The EVs for such a set are rather basic, but they get the job done. Raikou wants all the speed it can get, and maxing Special Attack on a Specs set should be obvious.</p>
Corrections are in red, comments are in blue.

Good job overall. . . the last few articles on which I've commented were full of errors, but yours was relatively sparse.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Good job overall. . . the last few articles on which I've commented were full of errors, but yours was relatively sparse.
<_<;

Anyway, I'm going to say that I too fail to see why Signal Beam is an option on SpecsRaikou. Other than Celebi, Grass-types are very rare in OU (the only sparse ones you might see are Roserade, Ludicolo, and said Tangrowth). IMO, I'd rather have Shadow Ball which not only harms Celebi still, but also is a good option against Rotoms in particular. I'd put Signal Beam / Sleep Talk for the last slot for the reasons I've stated above.
 
made some fixes
fyi - this isn't done.

and thanks for complimenting my grammar (that's how i got my ladybug a year ago).

updated with resttalk

I added an offensive set that combined RL's charge beam and calm mind LO sets.

I'm planning to do Choice Scarf and maybe a Rain Dance set. Raikou is definitely better at RD than Zapdos or Magnezone thanks to 115 base speed. my question is whether or not "better" is "good enough". what do you guys think?

(Personally, I'd keep it in other options.)
 
Ok, Rain Dance set is certainly other options.

A Choice Scarf set IMO can and should be combined with Choice Specs. All you need is a sentence explaining why you should use HP Ice over HP Grass on the Specs set. Also, remove Signal Beam its fucking useless, even on the Scarfset. I'd much rather use Extrasensory for the 100% revenge on Infernape and a strong option vs. Heracross, Breloom, and Machamp. I mean, what more is different between them? One is a revenge killer, one is a sweeper, but they use the same moves.... It should probably look like this:

Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
Shadow Ball
Extrasensory / Discharge / Sleep Talk

Mention how Discharge is a good opening move for grabbing a paralysis on a counter (useful for fucking Rotom). Then say Extrasensory is preferred for Scarf, Discharge and Sleep Talk for Specs.

Defensive set should probably be:

Thunderbolt / Discharge
Roar
Reflect
Light Screen

Now that I think about it, remove Signal Beam from everything and put it to other options, including on the offensive Calm Mind. Shadow Ball is superior for Rotoms and still does a number on Celebi anyway. Signal Beam is kinda wasting space, and doesn't help you against much. Roar is also a nice option for that set in Shadow Ball's space. That way, you can engage in Calm Mind wars with things like Jirachi and Roar them out at like +3 and win the game. It deserves a slash with Shadow Ball.

Also, Sleep Talk set deserves a serious mention also, as I came accross one and it walled the fucking shit out of my SpecsJolt. Raikou actually makes a decent electric waller since Zapdos really can't do anything to it. Also, it could work with a Mono-Calm Mind set possibly.
 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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i caught something in the specs set

It is important to note, however, that a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Raikou will do 70.9% - 83.9% to 120 HP Salamence, a OHKO 67% of the time. Given that Thunderbolt will also always 2HKO most Dragonite (doing 65.9% - 78.0% to min/min, a 21% chance of a OHKO)
this is kind of exactly what i was talking about in my bump of the SR topic in PR where i mentioned that SR is now basically assumed for all calculations now—the above calculations obviously reflect damage with SR up, but there's no mention of it at all in the set comments. i'm not reading the rest of the revamp to catch similar assumptions
 
I updated. I reread the whole thing twice and those two sentences were the only two that assumed Stealth Rock without saying so.

I combined Specs and Scarf.

Signal Beam goes to Other Options, as did Rain Dance. I tried out the defensive set, but it didn't work out so well, so that also went into Other Options.

Content-wise, this is pretty much done, but feel free to find any errors I may have made (good luck).
 

Caelum

qibz official stalker
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Content-wise, this is pretty much done, but feel free to find any errors I may have made (good luck).
This sounds like a challenge. And I say BRING IT. I would edit your post directly but this blatant challenge had to be addressed!

<p>Shadow Ball hits the Rotom formes for super effective damage, who otherwise will wall Raikou almost forever with resistances to key moves. Extrasensory is quite useful for a guaranteed revenge kill on pesky Fighting-types like Infernape, as well as being Raikou's best option to hit other various Pokémon like Heracross, Breloom, and Machamp. Sleep Talk can be used in a pinch when you need something to absorb sleep. The last slot can also be substituted for a support move such as Light Screen or Thunder Wave or one of Raikou's other offensive options, like Signal Beam, though these provide mediocre coverage and will rarely be used anyway. Discharge can also be used to paralyze a would-be counter on the initial switch-in.</p>
<p>The basis for this set is a quick set up with either Calm Mind or Charge Beam. Both have their advantages; Calm Mind will always boost your Special Attack (in addition to Special Defense), while Charge Beam can do damage while you're boosting up your Special Attack. On the other hand, Charge Beam has a chance of missing with only 90% accuracy, and even then, the one-stage boost is not guaranteed.</p>
<p>Once you have some sort of boost (really, only one is necessary), you can proceed to sweep with Raikou's other moves. Thunderbolt is an obvious choice, as the most reliable STAB move in Raikou's movepool. On this set, you can afford to forego Hidden Power Ice, as with a one stage boost and Life Orb (which is effectively a x1.95 boost), you manage to deal 92.2% - 108.9% (53.9% chance of OHKO) to 120/0 Salamence and 85.8% - 101.2% (2.6% chance of OHKO) to min/min Dragonite, both of which are guaranteed OHKOs when Stealth Rock is added to the picture. Swampert, who usually can counter grounded Electric-types such as Raikou, as well as Rhyperior are both decimated by Hidden Power Grass, boosted or not. A boosted Hidden Power Fighting has a 100% chance to OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar with Stealth Rock in the picture, Tyranitar will always be OHKOed by that same attack, and as it will also hit Magnezone and Heatran for good damage, it is a viable option. Shadow Ball can KO the standard Rotom formes after Stealth Rock, and Roar can be used during Calm Mind wars versus opposing Jirachi or Raikou. You can Calm Mind up while they are as well, and then use Roar. Your opponent will end up with 0 boosts, and you'll have a Life Orb Raikou with several Calm Minds ready to wreak havoc on your opponent's team. Keep in mind that a boosted Thunderbolt can 2HKO the Rotom formes after Stealth Rock, meaning you can opt for Roar without missing out on too much.</p>
[Other Options]
<p>For a Legendary Pokémon Raikou is really limited in the movepool department. It can choose to use Discharge over Thunderbolt, trading 22.5 base power for a 20% greater chance to paralyze on any given set; but, in general, Raikou is the type of Pokémon who benefits a bit more from the power Thunderbolt provides, with the main exception to this being the Sleep Talk set, which is more about longevity. Signal Beam works decently well on the more offensive minded sets to get a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi, but Shadow Ball is usually more effective as it also hits the Rotom formes for good damage.</p>
<p>With Sleep Talk it can afford to have a little less Speed in favor of more HP and Special Defense to enable it to absorb special hits a bit better, but it still needs to be extremely careful not to eat random Earthquakes from other quick Pokémon. Pouring some excess EVs into Raikou's physical Defense is also an option, as it allows Raikou to come into threats like Scizor more easily. Defense EVs used in this way are even more effective if you opt for Hidden Power Fire to easily disintegrate a cocky Scizor.</p>
<p>Magneton, previously one of the Pokémon that Raikou set up the very best on, evolved and can now break Raikou's Substitutes much more easily. Raikou now has to play a much more dangerous prediction game and risk getting Thunder Waved or Exploded on. Many of the other Pokémon that Raikou found it easy to set up on are also seeing reduced usage, such as Vaporeon, and Milotic, further increasing the difficulty for Raikou to set up. Electivire's addition also does not please Raikou, as it defeats Raikou easily with Earthquake, is immune to Thunderbolt, and takes very little damage from Hidden Power. The popularity of teams that involve adverse weather through Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow slams Raikou as well, for Leftovers recovery is integral to its usage. While Raikou doiate the increase of Stealth Rock over Spikes, the third residual damage move should not be forgotten. Toxic Spikes wrecks any Raikou that does not have Rest, though moreso the Substitute versions than the Life Orb or Choice variants.</p>
I'm not sure what you are trying to say there.
 
thanks, yo
anything else?

edit: fixed more grammar that caelum missed. i will upload after I get more opinions.
 
This analysis looks very good, I think I'm going to go rekindle the old flame darkie.

Minor nitpicks as usual. I would take some emphasis off Heatran and Magnezone when you mention Hidden Power Fighting, because those two are going to have a difficult time beating Raikou anyway, and Thunderbolt outdamages HP Fighting against Heatran. HP Fighting really is just for Tyranitar.

I think some of the counters in the counter section are a bit exaggerated and may misinform the reader. For example, the Rotom forms aren't walling the Calm Mind sets, especially the Life Orb version. They also aren't switching into Choice Specs all that easily as Thunderbolt is doing 34-40% to Max HP Rotom. Offensive Rotom are actually 2HKOed 90% of the time with Stealth Rock by Thunderbolt....Well, thats 3/4 of Raikou's sets..... Magnezone shouldn't even get a mention since Raikou is going to beat it 1 v. 1 with every set unless Magnezone uses Explosion, which doesn't make it a counter :-(. Magnezone isn't exactly threating Raikou back as Raikou resists his STABs also, and Magnezone takes 40-47% from a Choice Specs Thunderbolt switchin in, and even ScarfMagnezone is ousped. Most Electric types, save Electivire are going to get outgunned by Raikou or set up on.
 
[SET]

[SET]
name: Offensive Booster
move 1: Calm Mind / Charge Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Shadow Ball / Roar
item: Life Orb
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Raikou's 115 Special Attack and 115 Speed stats are seemingly built for an offensive set, and with decent defenses to switch in and set up, this can be made a reality through either Calm Mind or Charge Beam.</p>

[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Discharge / Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Underrated as a Sleep Talker, this version of Raikou is less susceptible to the Toxic Spikes, as well as other status, that tend to ruin other Raikou sets (moving the highlighted clause from where it was to there helps the sentence flow a little better.). Played conservatively, Raikou can last a long time with Rest combined with base 90 HP and base 100 Special Defense. Sleep Talkers are very often underrated, until a presumptuous Breloom comes along and disables a key member of your team with Spore. </p>

<p>While Thunderbolt is certainly Raikou's most reliable STAB move, Discharge is generally a better option on a more defensive set like this one - you'll have more opportunities to hit and therefore a better chance to paralyze your opponent. Charge Beam is another option that can take advantage of this Raikou's ability to last a long time, allowing you to boost up while Resting off any damage your opponent inflicts on you. Hidden Power Ice is generally the move that gives the best coverage alongside your STAB Electric move of choice; however, Hidden Power Grass is certainly a viable option to keep Swampert and Rhyperior in check. As with the Substitute + Calm Mind set, Hidden Power Ground is a viable option, but then you'd be completely walled by Pokémon such as Gliscor and Flygon, who, as rare as they are (Can one really consider them that rare? I can't remember where they appeared on the statistics list, but aren't both OU? Before Latias suspect tests started, I also saw a fair amount of Flygon, too. Just a thought.), could use you to set up.</p>

<p>The given EVs allow Raikou to outspeed all +natured base 100s, such as Salamence and Zapdos. HP is then maxed in order to maximize your defenses and then the rest is put into Special Defense to take special hits better. Putting excess EVs into Defense or Special Attack is certainly viable, to take hits from the likes of Scizor better or give a bigger boost if you use Charge Beam.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>For a legendary Pokémon Raikou is really limited in the movepool department. It can choose to use Discharge over Thunderbolt, trading 22.5 base power for a 20% greater chance to paralyze on any given set; but, in general, Raikou is the type of Pokémon who benefits a bit more from the power Thunderbolt provides, with the main exception to this being the Sleep Talk set, which is more about longevity. Signal Beam works decently well on the more offensive minded sets to get a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi, but Shadow Ball is usually more effective as it also hits the Rotom formes for good damage.</p>

<p>With a Damp Rock attached, Raikou can set up Rain Dance for itself to abuse Thunder or for its teammates. Hidden Power Water is a decent option on a Rain Dance set because of the pseudo-STAB and its good coverage with Electric. Light Screen and Reflect can work together on a dual screen set with Light Clay. Psych Up is another option, but as Raikou already learns the moves it needs in terms of stat-boosting, it's an inferior choice to Charge Beam or Calm Mind.</p>

[EVs]
<p>EVs are pretty straightforward. Raikou wants max or nearly max Speed on all of ("all of" is not needed) nearly all its sets in order to avoid taking hits, particularly deadly Earthquakes that will get thrown at it by pretty much everything under the sun.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>While it would certainly be unfair to say that the game is passing Raikou by, like a number of other Pokémon Raikou has changed very little since Advance and many other Pokémon have improved, making it worse by comparison. In spite of this, Raikou is fairly sturdy for a Pokémon as quick and powerful as it is, and while its movepool is subpar it does have the key moves with Hidden Power and Calm Mind that it needs to be successful. Raikou was a large part of the reason why teams felt the need to carry Blissey in Advance, and should players forget the fear Raikou once instilled in them, it is more than capable of surging back and sweeping teams.</p>

<p>Magneton, previously one of the Pokémon on which Raikou set up the very best (A grammar rule states you can't end a sentence in a preposition.), evolved and can now break Raikou's Substitutes much more easily. Raikou now has to play a much more dangerous prediction game and risk getting Thunder Waved or Exploded on (Here's where I'm at a loss: I've learned in all my English classes one isn't supposed to end sentences in prepositions such as "on", but I don't know how to rephrase this part. Perhaps try ". . . Thunder Waved or hit by Explosion."). Many of the other Pokémon that Raikou found it easy to set up on are also seeing reduced usage, such as Vaporeon, (drop the commna) and Milotic, further increasing the difficulty for Raikou to set up. Electivire's addition also does not please Raikou, as it defeats Raikou easily with Earthquake, is immune to Thunderbolt, and takes very little damage from Hidden Power. The popularity of teams that involve adverse weather through Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow slams Raikou as well, for Leftovers recovery is integral to its usage. While Raikou does appreciate the increase of Stealth Rock over Spikes, the third residual damage move should definitely not be forgotten, as it is perhaps the most brutal to the usage of most Raikou. Toxic Spikes wrecks any Raikou that does not have Rest, though moreso the Substitute versions than the Life Orb or Choice variants.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Seismic Toss Blissey as usual continues to be the bane of Raikou's existence. Without Seismic Toss, though, Raikou can use Blissey as set-up bait. Snorlax takes Raikou's attacks well with its astronomical HP and Special Defense and threatens with a powerful Return.

<p>Tyranitar can switch in easily thanks to Sandstorm boosting its Special Defense, and can hurt Raikou severely with Earthquake or Crunch. Sandstorm also hurts Raikou by nullifying its precious Leftovers recovery. Likewise, Raikou dislikes Abomasnow's Hail and other forms of residual damage, such as Toxic Spikes.</p>

<p>Electric-types such as the Rotom formes and Magnezone have an easy time switching into Raikou, but don't really threaten Raikou's good defenses. Jolteon in particular can use Raikou's Thunderbolt to recovery lost HP, but like the others, doesn't do much to hurt Raikou. Electivire can predict a Thunderbolt to switch in on, and thanks to Motor Drive, use Raikou to boost its Speed. Unlike the other Electric-types, Electivire can hurt Raikou on the on its weaker defensive spectrum - the physical end.</p>

<p>Raikou also has a very large problem with teams consisting of two Ground Pokémon, one who can take Hidden Power Grass, and one who can take Hidden Power Ice, effectively walling it regardless of which Hidden Power it possesses. Of course even with only one of the two Raikou is walled when it has the appropriate Hidden Power, being walled by Swampert, Whiscash, Mamoswine, and Quagsire with Ice and Garchomp (Isn't Garchomp Uber? Should you be referencing him?), Flygon, and Gliscor with Grass. Raikou without Calm Mind or Choice Specs will have trouble with many of the Grass Pokémon who are able to restore their own HP, such as Celebi, Venusaur, and Meganium. Raikou also can't do very much to Electivire, who can come in all day on Thunderbolts and frequently on unboosted Hidden Powers. Finally, many Ground Pokémon who are not weak to Ice or Grass have an easy time with Raikou, such as Steelix and Camerupt. Raikou is also trapped and slain by Dugtrio unless it has a Substitute up or is using Choice Scarf. </p>
Corrections in red, comments in blue. I already did the first half when you posted it, so I only read from the third set onward this time.
 
I think the EVs section or elsewhere should mention the legal IVs for HP Ice and Grass with Timid like on the Heatran page.



HIDDEN POWER GRASS:
Timid: 2 ATK, 30 SPATK

HIDDEN POWER ICE:
Timid: 22 ATK, 30 DEF
 

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