Here is my advice for your team. Steel always lacked ice coverage, so running ice beam on goodra is mandatory. Second, heatran needs to beat volcarona, so power gem(or stone edge but why though) is necessary. Lastly, you need corv to beat decidueye-h because gholdengo can;t do anything, so brave bird is also a must. Other than that, you team looks great. Scarf tran is really nice. I personally run gooey on goodra because steel as a whole is slow af(outside treads) so the speed support is very nice, especially for gambit an gholdengo.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Pre-DLC SV Monotype Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter maroon
- Start date
- Status
TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
Have implemented these changes, thanks
After the home update, things are finally looking up for mono rock. Arcanine-H, Avalugg-H, Kleavor, and Diancie all help out a lot. I've been experimenting with a Trick Room team(yes, rock now has access to trick room with Diancie and Carbink), and it works really well since most rock mons are really slow.
I think H-Avalugg is absolutely useless ngl. but allowing TTar to run AV instead of rocks to with Kleavor completely dismantling Ghost.
I'm in the process of working to a Sample Team or two. Will report back my findings.
Quick thoughts for Grass post-HOME:
Lilligant-Hisui is great for sure and I've been really enjoying to use it. Hustle + Victory Dance make it a very powerful sweeper in certain matchups and I have already seen it beat plenty of Flying teams in this short period of time, thanks to its access to Ice Spinner. Make sure you run Wide Lens as an item though, as it increases the accuracy of all its moves (thus mitigating Hustle's accuracy drop). It also pairs very well with Sleep Powder, giving it an increased chance to induce mons to sleep (75% --> 82,5%) and set up. Leaf Blade might be a good option too if you are expecting Ground or Water from an opponent in a tournament match, though, but not something i'd recommend for broad effectiveness. Max speed ensures you outspeed every scarfer in the Flying matchup after +1 (incluiding threats like Zapdos-Galar, Thundurus-Therian and Flamigo), enabling better sweeping conditions.
Another Grass Pokemon I have been enjoying a lot so far is Zarude. It's got Swords Dance this generation, enabling it to take a more offensive approach and do heavy damage, especially on problematic matchups like Poison and Steel. I particularly run it with Drain Punch as it helps sustainig damage against Steel and Crunch does the same amount of damage as Close Combat would vs Corviknight. There might be a better spread for this but for now i just decided to stick with the standard 252 / 252 EVs for testing sake.
Haven't used this mon much but I have observed some friends (ninjamage13 and a couple of other grass main users) going for it. Not particularly a big fan as it has limited coverage and mediocre spatk, but it has high speed which enables pivotting against more offensive oriented teams such as Fairy and Ghost. While it isnt as great as the forementioned tools Grass got, its doing a little better than i was expecting so I thought it was worth mentioning here. Chlroblast also can do an insane amount of damage to everything neutral to it thanks to its 150 BP, but it also takes away 50% of your health lol. Also a good choice if ur willing to prep vs water as it seems to singlehandedly demolish that type, but other than that i wouldn't recommend it for broad usages either. I would stick to Rotom-Mow if I am looking for a Grass/Electric in any case, as it is bulkier, has access to status moves (Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave) and can setup against bulkier builds in general which should generally make it more effective than our friend overall. 196 speed enables it to outspeed non-scarf Dragapult (the fastest relevant threat to it) and Scarf Heatran sets, while allocating the rest to bulk and damage.
Overall its been difficult to attain good results with the type still, as there are plenty of new additions that threaten it. Monotype metagame is super messy at the moment but maybe once its established Grass can shine a little more.
Lilligant-Hisui @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Victory Dance
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Sleep Powder
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Victory Dance
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Sleep Powder
Lilligant-Hisui is great for sure and I've been really enjoying to use it. Hustle + Victory Dance make it a very powerful sweeper in certain matchups and I have already seen it beat plenty of Flying teams in this short period of time, thanks to its access to Ice Spinner. Make sure you run Wide Lens as an item though, as it increases the accuracy of all its moves (thus mitigating Hustle's accuracy drop). It also pairs very well with Sleep Powder, giving it an increased chance to induce mons to sleep (75% --> 82,5%) and set up. Leaf Blade might be a good option too if you are expecting Ground or Water from an opponent in a tournament match, though, but not something i'd recommend for broad effectiveness. Max speed ensures you outspeed every scarfer in the Flying matchup after +1 (incluiding threats like Zapdos-Galar, Thundurus-Therian and Flamigo), enabling better sweeping conditions. Zarude @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
Another Grass Pokemon I have been enjoying a lot so far is Zarude. It's got Swords Dance this generation, enabling it to take a more offensive approach and do heavy damage, especially on problematic matchups like Poison and Steel. I particularly run it with Drain Punch as it helps sustainig damage against Steel and Crunch does the same amount of damage as Close Combat would vs Corviknight. There might be a better spread for this but for now i just decided to stick with the standard 252 / 252 EVs for testing sake.Electrode-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Soundproof
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 56 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Chloroblast
- Giga Drain
- Volt Switch
Ability: Soundproof
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 56 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Chloroblast
- Giga Drain
- Volt Switch
Haven't used this mon much but I have observed some friends (ninjamage13 and a couple of other grass main users) going for it. Not particularly a big fan as it has limited coverage and mediocre spatk, but it has high speed which enables pivotting against more offensive oriented teams such as Fairy and Ghost. While it isnt as great as the forementioned tools Grass got, its doing a little better than i was expecting so I thought it was worth mentioning here. Chlroblast also can do an insane amount of damage to everything neutral to it thanks to its 150 BP, but it also takes away 50% of your health lol. Also a good choice if ur willing to prep vs water as it seems to singlehandedly demolish that type, but other than that i wouldn't recommend it for broad usages either. I would stick to Rotom-Mow if I am looking for a Grass/Electric in any case, as it is bulkier, has access to status moves (Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave) and can setup against bulkier builds in general which should generally make it more effective than our friend overall. 196 speed enables it to outspeed non-scarf Dragapult (the fastest relevant threat to it) and Scarf Heatran sets, while allocating the rest to bulk and damage.Overall its been difficult to attain good results with the type still, as there are plenty of new additions that threaten it. Monotype metagame is super messy at the moment but maybe once its established Grass can shine a little more.
I already knew this Home update would hurt Ice more than it would help since we already knew what mons were coming, and it has me wondering what Gamefreak was thinking with their selection of like two ice mons (Two very questionable ice mons) whilst giving alot more threats to contend with to the point where yeah, I think if you run ice, you're just giving people free wins honestly. Maybe, I can suck on copium and hope that the DLC(s) will actually help ice, but until then us ice users must continue to suffer with unfavorable matchups.
Without being overtly negative, I think you can use articuno...for uh Freeze Dry. After losing Iron Bundle, the best freeze dry user would be Articuno. I don't think having access to tailwind will change much, but thats something also. Hisuian Avalugg just makes me question why they even made that mon. Its just Avalugg with a way worse typing, and not much to make up for it (from what I'm seeing anyway).
TLDR: Sad day for Ice, but as per usual, we must cope and hope that DLC gives ice some actual mons to change up the type
Without being overtly negative, I think you can use articuno...for uh Freeze Dry. After losing Iron Bundle, the best freeze dry user would be Articuno. I don't think having access to tailwind will change much, but thats something also. Hisuian Avalugg just makes me question why they even made that mon. Its just Avalugg with a way worse typing, and not much to make up for it (from what I'm seeing anyway).
TLDR: Sad day for Ice, but as per usual, we must cope and hope that DLC gives ice some actual mons to change up the type
We already saw a bunch of dlc mons coming haven't we? Pretty confident Ice gets mamo line and some other stuff
Elvira
formerly bruised
Lets talk about this potentially bulky thang, shall we?
I see people usually running more of the base enamorus with a set sort of being a mixed variant, a basic contrary set with superpower, moon blast, earth power/ taunt for pesky hazard setters or status setters, and a filler which usually ends with grass knot for quagsire removal against ground or gastro for rain/non rain water teams.
However this mon does come with a therian side like her counterparts before her that paved the way and SHE IS BULKYYY.
Let me provide just how great she can be with the right setup opportunities;
Now as basic as this can be, you can opt to add more into the defense slot. I prefer 162 spatk, 94 defense. But thats up to preference, even to use this mon over her regular base form. She can be very tanky as well even going against what would be her worst nightmare being band pao.
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. +2 248 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 242-288 (68.9 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^ This is with just 1 iron defense being used too. And here is the recovery.
252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 260-308 (86.3 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
^ mind you this is just neutral with no stat boosts to her spatk.
honestly I actually like using her therian form as I always thought it was a bit on the bad side but if it makes flying bulkier and fairy bulkier then use it! just make sure that its up for your own preference and what your team would need more. I would love to know everyone's thoughts on this tanky girl.
I see people usually running more of the base enamorus with a set sort of being a mixed variant, a basic contrary set with superpower, moon blast, earth power/ taunt for pesky hazard setters or status setters, and a filler which usually ends with grass knot for quagsire removal against ground or gastro for rain/non rain water teams.
However this mon does come with a therian side like her counterparts before her that paved the way and SHE IS BULKYYY.
Let me provide just how great she can be with the right setup opportunities;
Enamorus-Therian (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
Now as basic as this can be, you can opt to add more into the defense slot. I prefer 162 spatk, 94 defense. But thats up to preference, even to use this mon over her regular base form. She can be very tanky as well even going against what would be her worst nightmare being band pao.
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. +2 248 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 242-288 (68.9 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^ This is with just 1 iron defense being used too. And here is the recovery.
252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 260-308 (86.3 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
^ mind you this is just neutral with no stat boosts to her spatk.
honestly I actually like using her therian form as I always thought it was a bit on the bad side but if it makes flying bulkier and fairy bulkier then use it! just make sure that its up for your own preference and what your team would need more. I would love to know everyone's thoughts on this tanky girl.
Attachments
If it makes you feel better, I’ve used specially defensive Articuno on Mono Ice in National Dex to compliment Avalugg to very good success. With Heal Bell and great Sp.Def it’s great at checking Status, Tapu Lele, Volcarona, and Venusaur-Mega.
Unsure, I haven't been keeping up with the DLC leaks, but I wouldn't hold out hope tbh. Gamefreak could change things randomly and it becomes inaccurate.
Unfortunately, Articuno lost access to Heal Bell (Unless Showdown is wrong, but I doubt that), thats why I didn't mention it in my initial post.
Since home dropped, I've seen the question "What Dark type should I run on my Poison team" or "What is the best Dark for Poison" a few times in Monochat room and I've decide to make a Pros and Cons writeup for all three Poison Darks we've got right now based on what I've seen/Used.
This is sorted by what I believe is best to worse but they're all solid in their own rights and have their own parts that you may want on your team more than others. (This write up is also presuming all of them are running Black Sludge for a held item.)
If there is a Pro/Con you've think I've forgotten about, yell at me and I'll slap it in.
This is sorted by what I believe is best to worse but they're all solid in their own rights and have their own parts that you may want on your team more than others. (This write up is also presuming all of them are running Black Sludge for a held item.)
Pros:
AMuk has the best special bulk out of the trio. An example being max HP/SP. Def+ AMuk is a 3HKO from Specs Greninja Hydro pump compared to the Overqwil and Skuntank which are both 2HKO. It also comes with by far the widest offensive move pool with all the elemental punches, Zen Headbutt, Stone Edge, FBlast/Thunder for strong special options give it a wide and strong selection to choose from. With the bigger sells coming in as the only recovery move(s) of all three being Drain punch (and to a lesser extent, giga drain) and Knock off to make progress against every threat in the meta from fast attackers to slow walls. Oh and Poison touch poisoning 30% (60% with Poison Jab) is just a nice bonus to get.
Cons:
Unlike the other two it has no supportive move pool to speak off. With no Haze, Toxic Spikes or any form of an offensive setup option it is reliant on making progress through raw damage, Poison Touch and item removal. Which sometimes it will just be unable to do due to having a miniscule base 50 speed and no lack form of priority makes it a sitting duck against faster threats that will come in and kill it through a their superior speed.
AMuk has the best special bulk out of the trio. An example being max HP/SP. Def+ AMuk is a 3HKO from Specs Greninja Hydro pump compared to the Overqwil and Skuntank which are both 2HKO. It also comes with by far the widest offensive move pool with all the elemental punches, Zen Headbutt, Stone Edge, FBlast/Thunder for strong special options give it a wide and strong selection to choose from. With the bigger sells coming in as the only recovery move(s) of all three being Drain punch (and to a lesser extent, giga drain) and Knock off to make progress against every threat in the meta from fast attackers to slow walls. Oh and Poison touch poisoning 30% (60% with Poison Jab) is just a nice bonus to get.
Cons:
Unlike the other two it has no supportive move pool to speak off. With no Haze, Toxic Spikes or any form of an offensive setup option it is reliant on making progress through raw damage, Poison Touch and item removal. Which sometimes it will just be unable to do due to having a miniscule base 50 speed and no lack form of priority makes it a sitting duck against faster threats that will come in and kill it through a their superior speed.
Pros:
Intimidate is as we all know, an amazing ability. Having utility to hurt physical attackers is never not going to be useful. Poison Point while not as good, is still a solid ability and can help out against contact attackers that don't care for your intimidates at all. Continuing with utility, this thing has a strong utility move pool to draw from with moves like Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Taunt and Haze to provide conventional stall utility with Destiny bond to surprise foes and take a major threat down if called correctly. It can also be a powerful setup sweeper with Swords Dance/Agility to boost it self and an offensive move pool with strong water coverage in Liquidation and priority Aqua jet with a signature move, Barb Barrage, with its 120 base power against any Poisoned Foe allowing it to rip teams apart.
Cons:
The worst special defense of the three due to its pitiful base 65 Sp. Def and 85 HP which can hurt its longevity throughout a matchup. and despite having a higher physical defense stat, it isn't that much better than AMuk due to it having superior HP (Example, Meow Playrough is still a 3 hit on both). It will also need a few turns or assistance in getting setup if it does decide to go on the offensive side since it will need Toxic Spikes down or the foes to be already Poisoned if it truly wants to cause hell with Barb Barrage.
Also as a side note, Eviolite Qwilfish-H can be an alternative, as it packs superior bulk to both Overqwil and Skuntank and the best Physical bulk of any Dark Poison. It however it is weaker, can't have black Sludge recovery and loses the bulk once a knock off/trick hits it. But if your deciding to go any form of Eviolite mon, you're probably already aware of that risk.
Intimidate is as we all know, an amazing ability. Having utility to hurt physical attackers is never not going to be useful. Poison Point while not as good, is still a solid ability and can help out against contact attackers that don't care for your intimidates at all. Continuing with utility, this thing has a strong utility move pool to draw from with moves like Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Taunt and Haze to provide conventional stall utility with Destiny bond to surprise foes and take a major threat down if called correctly. It can also be a powerful setup sweeper with Swords Dance/Agility to boost it self and an offensive move pool with strong water coverage in Liquidation and priority Aqua jet with a signature move, Barb Barrage, with its 120 base power against any Poisoned Foe allowing it to rip teams apart.
Cons:
The worst special defense of the three due to its pitiful base 65 Sp. Def and 85 HP which can hurt its longevity throughout a matchup. and despite having a higher physical defense stat, it isn't that much better than AMuk due to it having superior HP (Example, Meow Playrough is still a 3 hit on both). It will also need a few turns or assistance in getting setup if it does decide to go on the offensive side since it will need Toxic Spikes down or the foes to be already Poisoned if it truly wants to cause hell with Barb Barrage.
Also as a side note, Eviolite Qwilfish-H can be an alternative, as it packs superior bulk to both Overqwil and Skuntank and the best Physical bulk of any Dark Poison. It however it is weaker, can't have black Sludge recovery and loses the bulk once a knock off/trick hits it. But if your deciding to go any form of Eviolite mon, you're probably already aware of that risk.
Pros:
STAB Sucker punch is the strongest priority move out of the trio by far, has nothing immune to it and hits two types Poison struggles against (Ghost and Psychic) incredibly hard. While having a slightly smaller support movepool than Qwill, it still has Haze, Taunt, Toxic Spikes and Toxic while having its own trick in Memento to cripple a threat and get some momentum going. It also is the most threating specially thanks to having Nasty plot which allows it to boost the normally small 71 Sp. Atk to terrifying levels with moves like Sludge bomb/Venoshock, Dark Pluse, Flamethrower/Fireblast and Hex all doing wonders. It also has Fire Spin for some good ol trapping if you require that on something not named Toxapex/Salazzle. On the physical side it also has Play Rough, a move that I've sung praises for on Skuntank throughout the Pre-home Meta. And with Aftermath to do 25% on a contact attacker there isn't much to worry about when it comes to this Skunk as a sack option.
Cons:
There is sadly a lot of reasons why it has fallen off in the posthome Meta. While it has slightly better special bulk than Overqwil with its base 61 Sp. def and 103 HP it still isn't the greatest and unlike Overqwil and AMuk, it has meager Physical bulk. It also doesn't hit that hard on the physical side from its STABs due to only having a base attack of only 93 compared to the others both passing 100. And Coverage wise, Play Rough and special Fire-Type moves mean it can be hard countered by any reasonably bulky Ground type only being able to hope for a Poison Jab Poison or hoping to set up T-spikes against it.
STAB Sucker punch is the strongest priority move out of the trio by far, has nothing immune to it and hits two types Poison struggles against (Ghost and Psychic) incredibly hard. While having a slightly smaller support movepool than Qwill, it still has Haze, Taunt, Toxic Spikes and Toxic while having its own trick in Memento to cripple a threat and get some momentum going. It also is the most threating specially thanks to having Nasty plot which allows it to boost the normally small 71 Sp. Atk to terrifying levels with moves like Sludge bomb/Venoshock, Dark Pluse, Flamethrower/Fireblast and Hex all doing wonders. It also has Fire Spin for some good ol trapping if you require that on something not named Toxapex/Salazzle. On the physical side it also has Play Rough, a move that I've sung praises for on Skuntank throughout the Pre-home Meta. And with Aftermath to do 25% on a contact attacker there isn't much to worry about when it comes to this Skunk as a sack option.
Cons:
There is sadly a lot of reasons why it has fallen off in the posthome Meta. While it has slightly better special bulk than Overqwil with its base 61 Sp. def and 103 HP it still isn't the greatest and unlike Overqwil and AMuk, it has meager Physical bulk. It also doesn't hit that hard on the physical side from its STABs due to only having a base attack of only 93 compared to the others both passing 100. And Coverage wise, Play Rough and special Fire-Type moves mean it can be hard countered by any reasonably bulky Ground type only being able to hope for a Poison Jab Poison or hoping to set up T-spikes against it.
If there is a Pro/Con you've think I've forgotten about, yell at me and I'll slap it in.
Last edited:
Don't forget hisuian qwilfish is a thing. It might seem the same as overqwill, but giving it an eviolite makes it a better defender than it's evolution and it can actually fill a useful spot.
Amuk is also useful because it doesn't need support moves, making an assault vest very useful and turning it into a special tank and very scary to face off against. Also, while drain punch isn't the greatest recovery, it's a steel/dark/normal counter and it was good in previous generations with no recovery options
Amuk is also useful because it doesn't need support moves, making an assault vest very useful and turning it into a special tank and very scary to face off against. Also, while drain punch isn't the greatest recovery, it's a steel/dark/normal counter and it was good in previous generations with no recovery options
I think the main reason alola muk is the best is because of knock off. This moves basically carries the pokemon itself. You don't need succer when you have knock. Rather than trying to play around a flutter and trying to get a succerpunch in. You can instead abuse your special bulk alonside assault vest, take around 30%(assuming max spdef AV) or 40%(assuming just max hp) then knock off the specs and you are golden. The lack of tapu lele is also of huge benefit as you can knock the choice items so many psychic rely on. Yes the lack of recovery is not good but the others don't have recovery either.
I don't believe Knock carries AMuk entirely. Knock is just what pushes it from being "probably the best" to "the best" since even without knock, it has the widest move pool, best bulk on both ends and 30% to Poison after preforming a contact attack.
Still wouldn't mind having some form of priority on it but oh well something has to keep this mon in check.
I probably should of mentioned it at least as a side note in the Overqwil section. I guess I my brain went "Oh, no recovery means it is going to get chipped for too easily" without questioning the bulk.
I should fix that.
Monotype joke(s) of the day (warning, your type WILL be slandered)
The only good ice type is Chien-Pao, everything else is a joke.
Fire types hardly pack enough heat to melt an ice cube
Who needs anything else when you can use 6 pseudo legendary dragons, am I right?
Fairy needed the tapus, but never got them this gen
Fighting is exclusively a physical type outside of valiant, which isn't even essential
Offensive poison is a joke in and of itself
Kleavor is the sole reason bug is viable right now
Water isn't really fresh to play, usually runs a similar defensive core of toxapex & quag/slowking/slowbro
Imagine not even having a 100% accurate widespread physical move rock types lol!
Dark just runs the same few mons, not much room for variety
Ground got more electric immunities
Flying can only run boots now
Electric types when ground: :crying:
Steel just tanks attacks
Psychic uses their terrain less than the few offensive mono poison teams that exist
Grass doesn't have any room to grow in this meta
Ghosts need to run gholdengo, flutter mane, and dirge to stay viable
The only good ice type is Chien-Pao, everything else is a joke.
Fire types hardly pack enough heat to melt an ice cube
Who needs anything else when you can use 6 pseudo legendary dragons, am I right?
Fairy needed the tapus, but never got them this gen
Fighting is exclusively a physical type outside of valiant, which isn't even essential
Offensive poison is a joke in and of itself
Kleavor is the sole reason bug is viable right now
Water isn't really fresh to play, usually runs a similar defensive core of toxapex & quag/slowking/slowbro
Imagine not even having a 100% accurate widespread physical move rock types lol!
Dark just runs the same few mons, not much room for variety
Ground got more electric immunities
Flying can only run boots now
Electric types when ground: :crying:
Steel just tanks attacks
Psychic uses their terrain less than the few offensive mono poison teams that exist
Grass doesn't have any room to grow in this meta
Ghosts need to run gholdengo, flutter mane, and dirge to stay viable
+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 148-175 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
just hit shrimple as (and pray to whatever god you believe in that it's scarf and not defensive, lmao)
Unfortunately Leaf Blade has very little utility outside of like, ensuring matchups you've already won and hitting this 2hko, so it's not a perfect solution, but...
ok, you didn't have to make it sound that desperate. Grass has options like it has 4 grass darks to deal with dirge and electrode-h and rotom-cut can somewhat manage talon. Not the best options but options none the less.
I will say, and it's funny to feel this way as a poison till death, but I am happy for steel. It went from the biggest treat to a joke, and I'm actually happy for them.
What are some good sets for Hisuian Goodra on Dragon, and what are some good partners for it? (I've never built Dragon before, if you couldn't tell.)
Goodra-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heavy Slam
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heavy Slam
Goodra-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Chesto Berry
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Careful Nature
- Acid Armor / Curse
- Rest
- Body Press
- Heavy Slam
84 Def Goodra-Hisui Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 304-360 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Careful Nature
- Acid Armor / Curse
- Rest
- Body Press
- Heavy Slam
84 Def Goodra-Hisui Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 304-360 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Goodra-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD OR go 176 Spe to Outspeed Azumarill
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail / Flamethrower / Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Body Press / Earthquake (remove Def investment if dropping Press)
- Heavy Slam
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD OR go 176 Spe to Outspeed Azumarill
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail / Flamethrower / Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Body Press / Earthquake (remove Def investment if dropping Press)
- Heavy Slam
As for partners, a ground immune like Hydrei or Dragonite would be great, with Hydrei beating up Steel-teams for it while Dnite provides a Fighting-resist too (so Dragapult doesnt have to always recklessly swap in). Cyclizar can provide shed tail and clear away hazards, which helps in the Fairy matchup a lot but it compounds another fighting weakness. Standard offensive fare of Baxcalibur and Dragapult will always be great. If using AV you can consider using Spikes Garchomp for that spikes shuffling, and is a secondary def dude.
I hope this answers your question.
neko, I disagree a bit with you av set. As a person that played steel throughout SS and played a lot(although to the success of ghost) in pre-home SV. Ice coverage is something that is severely lacking on steel types. This is why I think ice beam is equally as important as things like flamethrower and heavy slam. For example, ice beam prevents a lot of ground type, notably lando-T, from getting a free switch.
You're right, probably, but the context is wrong.
I thought you were specifically referring to the Lilligant-H vs Dirge/Tflame matchups, which are extremely poor. Yeah, you can hit the Dirge with a Meowscarada or Zarude Knock/Crunch, and you can hit the Talonflame with a Rotom-Mow Tbolt--but you can't switchin consistently, at least from my experience. So it's tricky. Very tricky.
I personally run Protect + 3 attacks on both types. Hisuian Goodra doesn't have a good access to recovery, so Protect + Leftovers is pretty much the next best thing and is pretty nice in practice since it does force a lot of switches. The attacks and spread that are ran differs between Steel and Dragon because of the different roles it serves with I feel being a Flutter Mane + Dragapult + Chien Pao answer on Dragon and just being a good Water resist on Steel that can handle Pokemon like Walking Wake and Hydreigon specifically.
Goodra-Hisui @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Protect
- Body Press
- Heavy Slam
- Draco Meteor
This is the set I run on Dragon. Body Press OHKOs Chien Pao and does a lot to Kingambit, Heavy Slam beats Flutter Mane and Hatterene while Draco Meteor means you can OHKO Dragapult. Maximum physically defensive means you can come in vs Dragapult's Dragon Darts and match up against Chien Pao better. Dragapult is usually either 1. Choice Scarf, 2. Dragon Dance, or 3. Choice Specs so this Hisuian Goodra set should cover all 3. Even if you lose the 1v1 with Draco Meteor against it, it should chip it to the range where Baxcalibur revenges it with Ice Shard.
Goodra-Hisui @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper / Shell Armor
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Earthquake / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
This is the set I run on Steel. Dragon Pulse is a spammable move against Dragon and against Quagsire without getting dropped. Flamethrower beats Corviknight and Kingambit, and Earthquake hits Heatran against Steel and goes nicely with Flamethrower. Thunderbolt is another option that lets you match up well against Rain Water since it forces the passive Water/Ground in and you can use those turns to get back Leftovers recovery or retain momentum and Ice Beam is good against Flying for Landorus-T. You can also run defensive Hisuian Goodra here with Shell Armor so you can switch into Choice Band Urshifu-R since Shell Armor blocks Surging Strikes from critting.
Hope you find the set you like using the best!
- Status