Pokemon Let's Go Speculate! (Beginning Phase)

[Theorymon]

Pokemon Let's Go Speculate!

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(approved by G-Luke , images from the offical Pokemon Let's Go site because I can't draw lol)
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Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and Pokemon Let's Go Eevee are possibly the most conterversial Pokemon games ever announced, with their simplification of many Pokemon standards like catching, and only the original 151 Pokemon + one new mystery Pokemon being in the game. And yet, not many people have talked about how a competitive Pokemon Let's Go metagame would be like.

This pet mod aims to change that, by using playtesting and available information about the games to speculate in a totally new way: by playing the game before it comes out this November!

As a note, this metagame has a pretty finite end date: As soon as Pokemon Let's Go comes out, there's no point in this petmod anymore since we have the actual games to make an OM out of maybe! But, this pet mod may at least give us some interesting experiences and stories to share after Let's Go comes out!

Note that while there are a few mechanical quirks confirmed, this metagame does not need a ladder or format selector to be mostly playable. You can simply challenge someone to a custom format on Pokemon Showdown with the below rules in mind, and you'll be mostly set! Main issue is that I'm not sure how you can give Megas custom abilities without dragging them in as a mega on the team builder, but it should be sorta ok for now if we just start with the mega I guess until something is implemented...

Rules

The big rule is that we are emulating what we know about Pokemon Let's Go as much as possible. This does lead to two mechanical changes that aren't required, but I'll talk about them later!

Also, with a few exceptions, the general pattern here is that if something isn't confirmed, then we assume it doesn't exist. If something gets confirmed later, we add it in!

0: This is a 6vs6 singles metagame. Standard OU clauses like Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Evasion Clause, and OHKO Clause apply.

I just wanted to get this out of the way first :P

1: Only the original 151 Pokemon + all of their variants (Alolan formes and Mega Evolutions) are allowed.

These are all the currently confirmed playable Pokemon in Let's Go, and Masuda has been pretty explicit about it being just kanto stuff + a new Pokemon since the announcement.

2: No items outside of Mega Stones are allowed.

Held items were not only NOT in the E3 demo, but the recent Japanese trailer that showed Charizard being able to choose its mega evolution in battle is making items a particularly unlikely part of Pokemon Let's Go.

3: No Abilities outside of useless ones like Honey Gather and Illuminate are allowed.

Abilities aren't totally deconfirmed, but we've seen no evidence of them yet, even in the Mega Evolution trailers which had Mega Charizard Y! So we have to leave this be for now.

4: Only moves learned via the gen-7 level-up and TM list are allowed, with a few exceptions

Not only are tutor moves not confirmed for Let's Go, but Breeding is outright deconfirmed for it too! Now I'm being a bit lenient here since if we only used "known" moves, then we'd have almost no game to play!

The exceptions are currently based off of moves that Pokemon in Let's Go have been shown used (We'll add to this list as more trailers and screenshots come out). They are:

Charizard: Dragon Pulse

Pikachu: Double Kick

There's also some egg and tutor moves that Pokemon Go transfers can grant Kanto Pokemon. Thanks to ToadBrigade for brining this up! Note though, since you can only have one charge move and one quick move in Pokemon Go, that means that a Pokemon can only choose one of each of these. So for example, Dragonite can't have Draco Meteor and Iron Head at the same time, it'll need to use Iron Tail if it wants Draco Meteor.

Charge moves

Brave Bird

Pidgeot, Dodrio

Close Combat

Machamp (no need for Cross Chop)

Draco Meteor

Dragonite

Foul Play

Persian, Persian-A

Powerwhip

Venusaur

Heavy Slam

Machamp, Onix

Iron Head

Onix, Tauros, Aerodactyl

Quick moves

Aqua Jet

Blastoise

Iron Tail

Nidoking, Dragonite

Bullet Punch

Machamp,

[/QUOTE]

The confirmed mechanical changes

So we don't need these to be in a playable mod right away since they aren't tooo big, but there are two major mechanical changes we do know of.

The Starter Pikachu is a totally new forme

So this sounds like a big deal at first, since starter Pikachu has way better stats! Here's the base stat estimates for it. There are ranges posted in the Orange Island thread, but I'm just gonna nail them down to "Pokemon looking stats" for lack of better terms lol. They aren't wide ranges though at least!

HP: 50
Attack: 90
Defense: 50
Special Attack: 85
Special Defense: 65
Speed: 125

Thing is, with no items except mega stones currently being allowed, I don't think this Pikachu will have a big impact since it needs Light Ball to be an effective offensive Pokemon. If gamefreak throws another curveball like the mega evolutions one and confirms items, then its a different story with Light Ball making Starter Pikachu a dangerous glass cannon! As of now though I don't think its too impressive.

Charizard (and likely Mewtwo) can select which forme they mega evolve into while in battle. They can only do this before mega evolution. Once they choose a forme, they're locked into that Mega Evolution.

On paper, this means you can used a mixed Charizard that selects a forme based off of what has a better match-up. It could be dangerous for sure, but I imagine most people are gonna stick to one Charizard forme in mind. If this could be implemented though, could be interesting to experiment with!

How are we going to deal with ban-worthy Pokemon?

Unlike most Pet Mods, there's no real "submission" process to fix broken Pokemon, since really Gamefreak has the car keys here! However, that doesn't mean we're just gonna plop the ruleset here and let nature take its course! Much like an OM, I think we'll have tiny little suspect tests and votes to figure things out!

For the first part, I want to get this out of the way now: Mewtwo is quickbanned. I think most of us know that Mewtwo would be extremely broken in a lot of formats, and it's especially the case here since its Kanto Pokemon only. Not even Alolan Muk, the star of Psychic-type checks, can handle Mewtwo, since not only does it get Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp, but it can also Mega Evolve into Mega Mewtwo X to get rid of the Dark-type weakness!

As for everything else, here's the phases I suggest

Phase 1: Bringing the problem Pokemon up

I'm thinking if we get a certain threshold of users suggesting that a Pokemon is causing problems (what number that'll be will be determined by the number of people playing and thread activity), then they become a suspect!

Phase 2: Suspect Test!

Don't panic, I'm not imagining anything as fancy as how these usually go on Smogon! Basically, as soon as one starts, we don't change the ladder, or even use ladder rating as a factor (since I don't think there will be enough people playing for that). Instead, we just declare that we're having a suspect test for the problem Pokemon, and give ourselves about one week to mull over it after some playtesting of any kind.

Phase 3: Vote!

We simply just vote. I'm thinking we go with a simple majority here since this metagame has a very finite lifespan anyways.

Phase 4: Reconsideration when Gamefreak throws a curveball

Since this metagame strives to emulate what we know of Pokemon Let's Go, theres a chance gamefreak may make a crazy annoucement. They already shocked us by confirming Mega Evolutions, so whose to say they might not just say "hey items and abilities are totally in!" If something like that happens, then in addition to submitting a "problem" Pokemon, we can also submit Pokemon that can come back in. If for any reason the change is as huge as items being allowed though, we can also just allow everything but Mewtwo back in too as a submission option. In this case, for bringing stuff back in, I say we just take a 3 day vote and get on with it.

 

[Theorymon]

Resources​

Viability lists

No point in having a viability rank till we play this some more! We should play for a week or two till we determine anything.

Roles (Speculation phase)

However, it'd be sorta lame if we just had to fend for ourselves, right? So for this early part of Let's Go Speculates life, I'll have some role speculation to get us started! In the future, this will be updated with more concrete info as we play the metagame. Don't take this as a bible either, since there's likely plenty to discover from actual playtesting VS my speculation!

Stealth Rockers

Guess what, you only have two choices here, and they're both Golem!

Golem: Regular Golem is most likely the most reliable choice for setting Stealth Rock. It has good enough physical bulk that it'll survive Earthquake, and STAB Earthquake itself is pretty valuable with that base 120 Attack stat. However, its soft specially, and the horrific Rock / Ground typing means that Starmie, one of the big Rapid Spinners, easily OHKOs it!

Alolan Golem: This is the riskier option. Yes, the 4x Ground-weak sucks because most physical Pokemon are gonna run Earthquake, which means Alolen Golem won't do all that much tanking. However, something that might be key here is that it can run a Specially defensive set to survive even Starmie's Hydro Pump. Meanwhile, unless Starmie has a lot of bulk invested, Wild Charge will smash it to pieces. This means that Aolen Golem is much harder to Rapid Spin against! Well at least when using Starmie (and maybe Blastoise / Mega Blastoise). Watch out for Sandslash: If anyone uses that, Alolen Golem has no chance against it.

Rapid Spinners

Since we talked about Stealth Rock, let's talk about how to remove it, since the lack of tutors totally screws over Defog.

Starmie: This is likely to be the premier Rapid Spinner. It's very fast, has decent power with its STAB Water-type attacks, and its STAB Psychic can make switching in Gengar risky. However, it is sorta frail unless you make it weak by not investing in Special Attack.

Sandslash: Hard to say how much use this will get, but notably, Mega Gengar can't OHKO it (though Will-O-Wisp sucks), and it performs much better vs Alolan Golem than Starmie does.

Alolan Sandslash: This is actually among the few allowed Steel-types in this metagame, which could be great for soaking up Outrages as a secondary use (especially since it nails Dragonite). However, that 4x Fire and Fighting weakness is gonna hurt a lot.

Blastoise / Mega Blastoise

Blastoise's main claim to fame is the better bulk than Starmie and not being weak to Ghost- and Dark-type attacks. I'm not sure if that's really enough of a big selling point (especially if you use a Mega Stone on it), but it's literally the last Rapid Spinner allowed in this metagame so there's that!

Sweepers

Here are some potential set-up sweepers for the metagame.

Mega Alakazam: With massive Speed and Special Attack stats Mega Alakazam has the potential to be one of the deadliest Special Attackers in the format! In fact, it's so fast, it outspeeds Dragonite and Gyarados even after they've set up Dragon Dance once! Calm Mind and Psyshock in particular mean Chansey won't be walling you. Hell, you can even use it with Substitute to totally wall Chansey due to the lack of Seismic Toss! However, Mega Alakazam isn't exactly bulky, and will be particularly vulnerable to Alolan Muk.

Dragonite: With so few good Steel- and Fairy-types around, Dragonite can overcome the loss of Multiscale by just being a dangerous set up sweeper with Dragon Dance and Outrage! The only really big loss in terms of moves is ExtremeSpeed, and Iron Head (you can use Steel Wing though). Of course, as usual, the 4x Ice weakness will be a big problem for Dragonite.

Mega Charizard X: This could be a good alternative to Dragonite thanks to not being weak to Ice (making Mega Slowbro much more manageable), and the better Speed stat. However, this won't be as versatile of a sweeper as you're used to, since unfortunately, Dragon Dance and Outrage are egg moves for it, and are thus banned. On the bright side, it still gets Swords Dance and Flame Charge for set up, and you could use a funky Will-O-Wisp set with Roost to surprise physically based answers.

Gyarados / Mega Gyarados: Whether you Mega Evolve Gyarados or not, it's the best choice for sweeping with a Water-type, thanks to the access to Dragon Dance and a generally good movepool. Mega Gyarados in particular stands out with its Crunch STAB, which means that Mega Slowbro has to rely on Scald burns to beat it most likely. Regular will still work too, though it's a bit softer on the physical side with no Intimidate, and the 4x Electric-type weakness is a pain. Make sure to use Jolly to outspeed Jolteon and Mega Gengar as well!

Mew: Oh lord where do I begin with this thing? It naturally learns both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, has great bulk, and pretty much all the coverage it could possibly want. I don't want to get to specific because I think Mew may be the most unpredictable development in this metagame, but I'd fear this thing in team preview!

General Offensive Pokemon

Not everything has to set up to be a threat!

Mega Gengar: Losing out on Shadow Tag may seem like a big blow, but Mega Gengar still has plenty of Speed and power to be a threat. It may not have any set up moves like Mega Alakazam, but being immune to Rapid Spin can mean that it can act as a risky switch-in to Starmie to block the Stealth Rock removal. Also, it can use Will-O-Wisp to at least punish Alolan Muk before switching out (unless its a Rest Talk one)

Machamp: This is by far the best Fighting-type in Kanto Classic. The lack of No Guard is a bummer, but thankfully, Pokemon Go still gives Machamp access to Close Combat, which is plenty of power and puts fear into Chansey and Snorlax's hearts! It also gets Dark-type coverage in Payback which means that Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar aren't exactly free switch-ins either.

Jolteon: Jolteon is likely your best choice for an Electric-type, outspeeding key fast water-type in Starmie. It's frail and its movepool sorta stinks, but as far as revenge killers that don't need a mega evolution, Jolteon looks like a reasonable pick.

Mega Charizard Y: While it does bost the highest Special Attack of any Fire-type in the metagame, the lack of Drought might make it lose its luster compared to usual. Still, it could be a reasonable option if you don't want to pack Moltres or another Mega Evolution.

Exeggutor / Alolan Exeggutor: If you aren't into using offensive Mega Venusaur, these two seem like reasonable alternatives, both having Sleep Powder and unlike Venusaur, they naturally get Leaf Storm! The Psychic-type resist sounds like it'd be handy, though watch out for Mega Alakazam that carry Shadow Ball.

Defensive Pokemon

As you can imagine, defensive Pokemon will likely have a field-day with the lack of offensive items, even if they miss Leftovers!

Mega Slowbro: Mega Slowbro's physical bulk and access to Slack Off puts it on a totally different level compared to other defensive Kanto Pokemon. This is likely to make it a pretty great check against sweepers like Dragonite. The Shadow Ball weakness does sound annoying though, and figuring out the coverage moves may be tricky.

Snorlax: With Chansey's big nerf, it's likely that Snorlax is one of the better special tanks around. Curse being an egg move sucks, but Rest and Sleep Talk is still likely to be plenty viable.

Alolan Muk: Alolan Muk is the best option for a bulky Dark-type around, thanks to being neutral to Fighting. This means it's likely an excellent check to Mega Alakazam, and Mega Gengar that lack Will-O-Wisp. Just note that Pursuit was also an egg move, so don't expect to trap them.

Chansey: The queen of special walling is likely to be viable, but with some serious caveats: With Eviolite and Seismic Toss gone, it's much easier to break past Chansey than before, using tactics such as Substitute to prevent it from doing much. Still, its special bulk can't be underestimated.

Mega Venusaur: The lack of Thick Fat is a bummer, but Mega Venusaur is otherwise the bulkiest option for a Leech Seeder in the metagame, and a bulky Poison-type attacker if you hate Clefable as well.

Clefable: losing unaware makes it much more vulnerable to sweepers like Dragonite, but otherwise, this is your best bet for a bulky Fairy-type to take advantage of Outrage.

Zapdos: Zapdos's bulk isn't quite on the level of most of these other Pokemon, but access to Roost and that Electric-type STAB is likely to set it apart. Heat Wave is unfortunately a tutor move though, so Flying-type STAB might be more interesting than usual.

That's it for now. Again, while there's no challenge format for this anywhere, you can use custom challenges on Pokemon Showdown to get pretty close to this pet mod for now!

 

[Ivy]

I hope someone writes a quick code for this and gets it up on ROM. Looks really novel to try out at least and could potentially get more intriguing with any future reveals! Shouldn't be *too* difficult to modify Pikachu's base stats and disable Abilities in entirety (along with implementing the rest of the rules simply as clauses), although I really can't speak from experience.

 

[ToadBrigade]

1: Only the original 151 Pokemon + all of their variants (Alolan formes and Mega Evolutions) are allowed.

Have cross-gen evolutions been explicitly deconfirmed? There's been speculation with the recent trademarks that they will be in but obviously they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also some movepool additions should be made thanks to transferring from Pokemon Go. There are others but they're probably less relevant:

Brave Bird

Pidgeot, Dodrio

Close Combat

Machamp (no need for Cross Chop)

Draco Meteor

Dragonite

Foul Play

Persian, Persian-A

Powerwhip

Venusaur

Heavy Slam

Machamp, Onix

Iron Head

Onix, Tauros, Aerodactyl

Aqua Jet

Blastoise

Iron Tail

Nidoking, Dragonite

Bullet Punch

Machamp,

 

[Neosonic97]

>Jolteon is likely your best choice for an Electric-type, outspeeding key fast water-type in Starmie. It's frail and its movepool sorta stinks, but as far as revenge killers that don't need a mega evolution, Jolteon looks like a reasonable pick.

I dunno about that. Wouldn't Starter Pikachu do it better? Since it's meant to be revenge-killing, Starter 'chu basically beats out Jolteon. It's a bit more frail, but as a revenge-killer that shouldn't matter. Starter 'chu outspeeds almost every other Pokemon, with only Aerodactyl, Jolteon itself, Electrode, and Mewtwo outspeeding it. And with a Light Ball, it hits a hell of a lot harder. And of those, Pikachu only really fears Aerodactyl and Mewtwo, and the latter is banned.

 

[ToadBrigade]

I dunno about that. Wouldn't Starter Pikachu do it better? Since it's meant to be revenge-killing, Starter 'chu basically beats out Jolteon. It's a bit more frail, but as a revenge-killer that shouldn't matter. Starter 'chu outspeeds almost every other Pokemon, with only Aerodactyl, Jolteon itself, Electrode, and Mewtwo outspeeding it. And with a Light Ball, it hits a hell of a lot harder. And of those, Pikachu only really fears Aerodactyl and Mewtwo, and the latter is banned.

Items are not in LGPE so Pikachu cannot hold Light Ball making Jolteon better in every relevant stat. The only reason you'd want to use Starter Pikachu over Jolteon is for Grass coverage but Jolteon can most likely afford to run HP Grass since HP Ice will most likely not be as relevant in this metagame (no Lando-T, Garchomp, Zygarde, etc.). Jolteon also has access to Shadow Ball which can OHKO Gengar.

 

[Theorymon]

Have cross-gen evolutions been explicitly deconfirmed? There's been speculation with the recent trademarks that they will be in but obviously they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also some movepool additions should be made thanks to transferring from Pokemon Go. There are others but they're probably less relevant:

Brave Bird

Pidgeot, Dodrio

Close Combat

Machamp (no need for Cross Chop)

Draco Meteor

Dragonite

Foul Play

Persian, Persian-A

Powerwhip

Venusaur

Heavy Slam

Machamp, Onix

Iron Head

Onix, Tauros, Aerodactyl

Aqua Jet

Blastoise

Iron Tail

Nidoking, Dragonite

Bullet Punch

Machamp,

This is a great point actually! One major thing though: you can only have two moves in Pokemon Go, one quick move and one charge move. Because of this, it means that there are some move illegalities, such as Machamp not being able to have both Close Combat and Heavy Slam.

I'll edit your post in the OP now in the allowed moves, and label what are quick moves and what are charge moves for reference!

 

[Neosonic97]

Items are not in LGPE so Pikachu cannot hold Light Ball making Jolteon better in every relevant stat. The only reason you'd want to use Starter Pikachu over Jolteon is for Grass coverage but Jolteon can most likely afford to run HP Grass since HP Ice will most likely not be as relevant in this metagame (no Lando-T, Garchomp, Zygarde, etc.). Jolteon also has access to Shadow Ball which can OHKO Gengar.

Right, forgot about that. Well, right now anyway. Might be more coverage moves in the wake.

Also another reason would be Pikachu's actually usable physical attack stat, which would allow it to break Chansey where Jolteon would fail.

 

[Brodaha]

I'm also wondering if cross-gen evolutions have been confirmed or not. Some of the more important ones are Magnezone, Scizor, Steelix, Crobat, Porygon-Z, and Kingdra.

I'll post some top threats if each type later.

 

[Theorymon]

So in light of ToadBrigade 's point about Pokemon Go Transfer moves, it made me interested in a very different kind of Dragonite set than the norm!

Dragonite
4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Outrage
- Surf / Flamethrower / Dragon Dance / Hurricane / Earthquake

Oh snap its Mixnite! As it turns out, Thunderbolt does JUST enough to 2HKO Mega Slowbro (unless it invests in Special Defense), whicn is what made me interested in this Dragonite in the first place, since I expect Mega Slowbro to be a common response to Dragonite. Outrage does just enough to 2HKO Chansey switch-ins as well since it lacks Eviolite, and it just seems like a nice move to have once you use Draco Meteor.

The last moveslot I have a feeling I won't refine till I do some actual playtesting however. I slotted in Surf because Dragonite actually doesn't OHKO Golem, while Golem OHKOs it with Stone Edge. Flamethrower is in case Alolan Sandslash becomes a popular way to deal with Outraging Dragonites, while Dragon Dance could let this Dragonite clean up weakened teams. As silly as Hurricane is, it's the only way for Dragonite to actually 2HKO Mega Venusaur (it does enough damage to put it in the KO range of Draco Meteor thankfully). Finally, Earthquake is just the "screw you Alolan Muk" move lol.

This Dragonite sounds even more helpless than usual against Clefable though, and defensive Snorlax will wall this Dragonite to hell and back too. Also, reason why I put a +Speed nature there is that I imagine a lot of Dragon Dance Dragonite are gonna run Jolly so they can outspeed Mega Gengar and Jolteon. I also went with -Def since I don't think this format will have a lot of priority attacks flying around, and Dragonite has some good special resists.

P.S.: If anyone wants to playtest with me when I get home tonight, I'm more than open to it via custom battles! It'll be a bit jank with having to use already mega evolved Pokemon to get around the ability restriction, but it should still provide valuable playtesting data imo!

 

[Brodaha]

Top Threats of Each Type

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WIP. I don't know how accurate this really is because I don't really know Gen 1 movepools and Abilities are also a big part of my Pokemon viability knowledge in general.

 

[Theorymon]

Top Threats of Each Type

Offensive:

Defensive:

Offensive:

Offensive:

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(

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WIP. I don't know how accurate this really is because I don't really know Gen 1 movepools and Abilities are also a big part of my Pokemon viability knowledge in general.

The only two Pokemon that I highly doubt is gonna work in some form on that list are Poliwrath and Tauros. Poliwrath's Fighting STAB being Brick Break is pretty pathetic in all honesty lol. As for Tauros, I'm not really sure what it offers over other Normal-types besides Speed.

There are a couple of mons that I'm skeptical of too, but I don't feel comfortable shooting them down just yet since I think they're worth some experimentation.

Mega Kangaskhan: I think this thing is REALLY gonna be harmed by the lack of Parental Bond and Power-up Punch. However, it has pretty damn good bulk, so I wonder if it can be used as a faster, less specially defensive variant of Snorlax.

Mega Pidgeot: I'm not sure I like relying on Air Slash's weak power or Hurricane's iffy accuracy now that there's no No Guard, but there aren't really many options for the Flying-type STAB either, plus its pretty fast, so I can imagine Mega Pidgeot having some sort of niche.

Rhydon / Rhyperior: I'm sure Rhydon is actually fine, but since the only Stealth Rock options are Golen and Alolan Golem, I question the ability to slot Rhydon in, since the typing overlap often means that Golem is just gonna be the better choice since it can set up Stealth Rock.

Oh that reminds me, one of the other few Pokemon with a viable looking Flying-type STAB beyond Mega Pidgeot and Mega Charizard Y might be.. Dodrio? I'm a bit iffy on it since Dodrio is rather frail, but its sounds like the only decently viable user of Brave Bird at least, which is interesting since most Flying-STAB Pokemon use the Special Attack stat.

 

[Neosonic97]

Oh that reminds me, one of the other few Pokemon with a viable looking Flying-type STAB beyond Mega Pidgeot and Mega Charizard Y might be.. Dodrio? I'm a bit iffy on it since Dodrio is rather frail, but its sounds like the only decently viable user of Brave Bird at least, which is interesting since most Flying-STAB Pokemon use the Special Attack stat.

I felt I had to double-check for a moment to see how Dodrio and Fearow stacked up to each other, and yeah, Dodrio's better.

Also, since when does Megazard Y have a viable Flying-type STAB? It only gets Air Slash. Did you mean Moltres instead? Zapdos could also work, since due to lack of movepool, it would likely have to fall back on its old Gen 1 Mixed Attacking set with Drill Peck.

Speaking of, let's see if I can think up some top threats for some other types.

Theorymon already covered the big 4 non-banned Psychics, those being Alakazam, Starmie, Slowbro and Mew.

Theorymon however did miss a potential Stealth Rocker, but that heavily depends on whether the Pokemon is actually in the game, so it's up for debate, but if Cross-Gen Evolutions are confirmed, Mega Steelix could prove to be a valuable Stealth Rocker, since both Onix and Steelix learn the move via Level up.

Since Stealth Rocks are so uncommon, Fire- and Ice-types could potentially come out to play again, but there are three Pokemon who really appreciate this change more than any other, those being the Ice-Type threats: Articuno and Cloyster.

Due to the limited options of the metagame, Articuno's abysmal movepool isn't really much of an issue any more. Articuno has nice stats, including pretty great bulk, and Ice Beam/Blizzard plus Hurricane is a nice STAB to go with Articuno's decent base 90 Special Attack (This is Gen 1 only so the overall stats are lower for everything but Megas), and its great 90/100/125 Bulk combined with reliable recovery in Roost can make Articuno a pretty potent defensive threat, especially since the number of viable Pokemon that can take advantage of its typing without having to worry about taking a Super Effective STAB to the face is pretty minimal. Its base 95 Speed isn't that bad either.

Cloyster is a bit more more obvious as to why it's threatening, and it's a wonder Theorymon missed it. It happens to have an exclusive monopoly on the best boosting move available in this metagame: Shell Smash. That alone makes Cloyster a threat, and good news for Cloyster, it has just enough of a movepool to abuse it! Cloyster can run either a physical or a special set in this game, with Physical Sets using Razor Shell and Icicle Crash while the Special Sets use Ice Beam and Hydro Pump/Surf respectively, with Shell Smash being the one constant across all Cloyster sets.

Physical Sets will usually run Poison Jab as their third move, which lets them crush Clefable, since Cloyster's movepool is pretty shallow. Either that or Smart Strike... which also reduces Clefable to a fine red mist. Smart Strike also has the added bonus of letting Cloyster smash through other Ice-types, such as Articuno. And if THAT wasn't enough, Cloyster is also one of only two viable Pokemon in the game to be able to use Toxic Spikes effectively (Beedrill can't since it's far too frail for that).

And speaking of Beedrill...

Mega Beedrill also definitely warrants a mention. It's lost Adaptability, Drill Run and Knock Off, sure, but its startlingly high Attack and Speed make it a prime revenge killer. A lot of Pokemon struggle to handle Beedrill's offensive prowess, and given how it's the second fastest thing in the game (Electrode and Mega Alakazam tie for fastest), it's definitely a scary prospect. Even the dreaded MEWTWO of all things cannot safely switch in on Mega Beedrill, since all forms of Mewtwo are outsped and only Mega Mewtwo X avoids losing a good 80-90% of their HP on a U-Turn or X-Scissor hit! And even the loss of Drill Run isn't that huge a deal since Beedrill can just swap Brick Break in to compensate, albeit at the cost of being unable to hit Fire-Types any more, so those Pokemon (ESPECIALLY Charizard and Moltres) will be Beedrill's worst nightmare.

On the other hand, though, Mega Beedrill can effectively handle a lot of serious threats in the Metagame. Chansey and Clefable cannot even BEGIN to think of walling the mega bee, Exeggutor, Mew and Starmie die flat-out unless Mew has a speed boost up from something like Agility or Tailwind. With speed support, Mega Beedrill can even bring down Mega Alakazam from its throne. Or if you want to be really cheeky, you can run a Double Dance set! Beedrill's nowhere near bulky enough to be setting up, but if it manages to get an Agility up, there's nothing in the game that will outspeed it, and with that kind of Attack, a Swords Dance will be a VERY scary prospect. Or possibly Fell Stinger if you can guarantee a KO with it.


This is all just theory though. I have yet to test this out.

 

[Theorymon]

So me and Chazm had 3 battles in this format using the sorta duck taped together ruleset of "use a mega with no ability". Too early to determine much, but from the 3 battles we had, we did see some interesting things.

1: At least with our teams, it seemed like Rapid Spinning away Stealth Rock seemed more trouble than it was worth. However, Chazmic seems interested in trying out Spikes stacking Cloyster at least.

2: Stallbreaker Mew is TERRIFYING in this metagame! It actually gives Alolan Muk trouble, and unless youre Mega Charizard X (or a faster Mew with Taunt), it's really hard for physical sweepers to break through this thing. On the bright side, Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar could give it some grief. But yeah, it forced me to use Megazard X in my last match lol

3: Both Mega Gengar and Mega Alakazam are really hard to switch-into. More so with Mega Gengar, since Will-O-Wisp can mess with some stuff. Mega Alakazam is easier to deal with per say, but the better Speed stat and access to Calm Mind still made it a pretty potent sweeper imo.

 

[astralydia]

Just gonna add on to the post Theorymon made:

Snorlax is a beast in this meta, and it's somewhat expected of it. It's one of the few Pokemon that can actually think of taking on common Psychics due to its gigantic Special bulk, and can even irritate the likes of Golem and Rhydon with Earthquake and Body Slam. Toxic also works well since Steel-types are far and from available in this metagame, and the ones that are (Alolan Sandslash, mainly) get absolutely ruined by most of the metagame.

Stallbreaker Mew is something which I'm trying to decide what the main coverage slot should be. Psychic hits a good quantity of threats in this metagame, but Earthquake also hurts a lot of fires; particularly Zard X, one of the best answers to the Ice Beam variant. Double Dance Mew also looks very interesting, and due to the overall lack of speed in this metagame, it looks like it could run amok even without Speed investment. Here's what I came up with:

broken lel (Mew)
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Facade
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish


Countered by Slowbro but you get the point. EdgeQuake coverage beats most of the meta, Facade memes on Mew. (and Zapdos if it gets a Discharge paralysis)

However, I fully expect Stallbreaker Mew to be the best set - it takes advantage of Mew's best asset, being its bulk, and with Toxic around every corner, having a way of preventing it makes it tough to break.

 

[G-Luke]

Sooooo

Flare Burn and Splash Surf.

This basically confirms that Let's Go is introducing new moves!

 

[Samtendo09]

Sooooo

Flare Burn and Splash Surf.

This basically confirms that Let's Go is introducing new moves!

Really? I want to see how those moves works in-game since I never even thought that something called Let's Go gives new moves.

 

[Theorymon]

FYI, Pikachu gets Splash Surf, while Eevee gets Flare Burn. There's also art out there of Pikachu using the water move with balloons behind it (so it might get a Flying-type move as well), while Eevee has elements around it that represent each Eeveelution, so it might be getting a lot of sig moves!

Splash Surf sounds sorta neat on Pikachu since it could run a Hidden Power to hit other stuff (like Dragonite), which is an advantage over Jolteon. Not really sure that justifies using it when it has 30 base less SpA than Jolteon however. Eevee of course, is still a big question mark since we don't have base stat estimates for it. At the very least though, I guess Flare Burn means it won't be walled by Steel-types, though I'm not sure if Magneton and Alolan Sandslash will be relevant enough for this to matter. Other coverage moves might be very interesting though!

Also, I tried Mega Charizard X a bit last time I did playtesting. It's pretty cool since its a Fire-type that Starmie doesn't revenge kill easily, thougn lacking Outrage and Dragon Dance is a bit of a bummer. I'm very tempted to try a bulky set of sorts with Will-O-Wisp as well. Funnily enough, for this kind of Charizard, I can see using special moves making the most sense for a bulky one, which would take advantage of Charizard choosing its mega evolution. I don't think you'll OHKO Mega Alakazam this way though!

 

[Squawkerz]

Pikachu has Splishy Splash (english name for splash surf)

Eevee has Bouncy Bubble (Water), Buzzy Buzz (Electric), and Sizzly Slide (Fire) (english name for flare burn)
-Bouncy Bubble seems to be a draining move

 

[Neosonic97]

Pikachu has Splishy Splash (english name for splash surf)

Eevee has Bouncy Bubble (Water), Buzzy Buzz (Electric), and Sizzly Slide (Fire) (english name for flare burn)
-Bouncy Bubble seems to be a draining move

The Partner Powers could be game-changers once we get more details on them.

Pikachu's niche over the other two fast Electric-type choices, Zapdos and Jolteon (Magneton is more chosen for its steel-typing, so I don't count that as an electric choice), is coverage. Pikachu has far better coverage than Jolteon and Zapdos, and doesn't have to choose between getting hard-walled by Rhyperior/Golem or Steelix (Assuming it's in the game) since Splishy Splash allows it to hit both (Plus it can also use Grass Knot for the former), letting Pikachu choose its hidden power type more freely than its fellow electric-types.

According to every source I could find, Buzzy Buzz and Sizzly Slide are basically a bit like Nuzzle: They'll always inflict the status associated with their type (Buzzy Buzz always paralyzes, Sizzly Slide always burns), so that could be something for Eevee as a status spreader.

 

[Zowayix]

Looks like the new moves each have 90 base power. The starter Pikachu also gets a Flying-type one.

I wonder if the Partner Powers are like USUM's Z-Rotom Power in that the event trigger can only happen during in-game battles and never link battles.

 

[AquaticPanic]

So... No Scarf, no Focus Sash, very few Dark and Steel Types.

Spoons are broken.

 

[Yung Dramps]

shameless plug time

Hey boys, I would like to alert you all that the Nexus server has a fully playable Let's Go format! It's up-to-date with most of the confirmed mechanics for LGPE. It's still in development, so some stuff like move changes, Meltan and Melmetal and other stuff are not implemented, so keep that in mind!

To start with, there aren't EVs. There's Candy, which apparently can be used to add a total +200 to each stat. This leads to some really big stat numbers. To get this buff on Nexus, just put 20 evs into the stat and the code will fix it. There's also a friendship buff; if your Pokémon has max happiness, all of their base stats excluding HP will be multiplied by 1.1.

And while you're at it, why not join our Discord server for metagame/banlist discussion?

 

[Ivy]

So... No Scarf, no Focus Sash, very few Dark and Steel Types.
Spoons are broken.

I think it needs a Pokemon Go transfer to get Focus Blast, but yeah, it's pretty nice with that.

 

[Theorymon]

shameless plug time

Hey boys, I would like to alert you all that the Nexus server has a fully playable Let's Go format! It's up-to-date with most of the confirmed mechanics for LGPE. It's still in development, so some stuff like move changes, Meltan and Melmetal and other stuff are not implemented, so keep that in mind!

To start with, there aren't EVs. There's Candy, which apparently can be used to add a total +200 to each stat. This leads to some really big stat numbers. To get this buff on Nexus, just put 20 evs into the stat and the code will fix it. There's also a friendship buff; if your Pokémon has max happiness, all of their base stats excluding HP will be multiplied by 1.1.

And while you're at it, why not join our Discord server for metagame/banlist discussion?

Thanks a lot dude! I was orginally just gonna have this thread closed the moment candy was confirmed, and try again when the game came out. But I’ll just revamp the OP later to addresses this instead! :)