Platinum Ain't So Bad. (An Olie/Thorns joint venture)

[Thorns]

Platinum strategies are definitely improving and it is a great addition to the metagame. However, some of these strategies are perhaps too good. So Olie and I sat down, and started to think of making an anti-metagame team. Hours and hours (well, more like 2-3) of hard work has presented us with this:

A team with Dugtrio AND Magnezone is pretty much laughing at Steel types, and slower Pokemon that can be OHKOd by Dugtrio. Notice the Feraligatr and Cresselia, two Pokemon not common nowadays (Feraligatr was never popular, but).

Team Anti-Platinum

Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 216 Atk/236 Spd/56 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Night Slash

Dugtrio as a lead may seem odd, but it works extremely well. It outspeeds Azelf, will always survive one Psychic and can hit it with Night Slash, bringing it to 1 HP, and because of the Focus Sash, can probably kill Azelf again, then setting up Rocks. Dugtrio traps and kills Tyranitar, again due to Focus Sash. Aerodactyl will definitely set up, but not before getting hit with a Stone Edge. Dugtrio is an essential part of the team, as is:

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 HP/216 Spd/204 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Reflect

Magnezone kills those pesky Scizors who can deal damage to just about every team. Magnezone also kills the less common Forretress, and Skarmory isn't surviving without a Shed Shell either. Magnezone can hold its own against physical attackers with Reflect as well.

Feraligatr (F) @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Flail
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Waterfall

Feraligatr is an odd choice, and may even seem like a gimmick, but this not so. Feraligatr is bulky enough that a Thunderbolt usually will not kill, and after a Dragon Dance, Liechi Berry kicks in, effectively putting Feraligatr at +2 Attack and +1 Speed, and is ready to decimate with Waterfall and Flail (Water/Normal provides awesome coverage). If Feraligatr comes in on something likely to switch, such as a Heatran locked into Fire Blast or Earth Power, it can get 2 Dragon Dances up, and not be outsped by most things. Feraligatr is one of those Pokemon that does well when at low HP.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/40 SAtk/96 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

Replacing Cresselia is the NFE Porygon2. P2 is a reliable Gyarados and Salamence counter, because it can Intimidate them, and OHKO with Ice Beam or TBolt. Thunder Wave because I dislike using Discharge, and Recover because P2 is annoying like that. This spot pending for a potential Zapdos if it turns out to be better.

Machamp (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/160 Atk/96 SDef
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Dynamicpunch
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast

Machamp is a great Pokemon, with immense attack and No Guard. It also gets brilliant coverage. Dynamicpunch is great against Paralyzed stuff, due to Confusion AND Paralysis. Fire Blast is for Steels that don't take too much from Dynamicpunch, Payback for Ghosts and Psychics, and Stone Edge to hit flyers. Machamp is also a pseudo-Zapdos counter, with the SDef EVs being very useful.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 32 HP/252 Atk/224 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
- Superpower

Ironic that an anti-metagame team would carry Scizor, but after all is said and done, Scizor is the most used Pokemon for a reason. Superpower is used here, for the quick hit against incoming Heatrans. X-Scissor is for STAB, and coverage. Bullet Punch is obvious, as Scizor is quite slow, and Technician will power it up even more.

Unfortunately, Olie couldn't be here to input his comments, which would be much more informative than mine, but I hope mine will suffice.

Have fun rating, and thanks in advance.

 

[RaikouLover]

Ok, just looking at this a few minor nitpicks:

Why Crunch on Feraligatr instead of Return? Return has superior coverage and Power, unless for some reason you have serious Celebi problems?

Also, Machamp would be better off with Fire Blast over Fire Punch, as with No Guard it will always hit. It has more base power and will hit the things you use it against Skarmory and Forretress, harder than Fire Punch will (though you should be Dynamicpunching them anyway...)

Otherwise its a solid team.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

i would change psychic to ice beam on cresselia or light screen to reflect, this team has big problems with a salamence once it has gotten a Dragon Dance, yes there are 2 steel types but after a DD, if salamence has LO even they are 2hkod by outrage assuming its locked into it, your only answer now is t-wave with cresselia, everything except cresselia is OHKOd as long as salamence has a fire attack over stone edge, Cresselia though can survive an LO DD outrage and either ice beam salamence and allow scizor to finish it off or reflect in its face so your team can take its attacks better, also physical attackers are more dangerous in OU than special attackers so reflect can help with other things too

 

[Thorns]

RL: Actually, I was pondering Return myself, but Olie seemed to think Crunch was superior, but I'll try it out.
Fire Blast is a good idea.

thechocolatebunny: Magnezone has Reflect, if you didn't notice. And you know what - T-Wave is exactly what Cresselia will be doing - I'd like to see Salamence sweep a team when Paralyzed and Confused. Ice Beam may be a good choice, but with that I'm not really threatening the Fighters I'm meant to be switching in on.

 

[Olie]

Nice work on the RMT Thorns.
I don't really have any additional input since you've covered almost everything.
I would like to note however that Duggy will survive Azelf's Psychic 100% of the time and 2HKO with Pursuit, or OHKO if it's switching out (while at the same time outspeeding max speed versions). If we're using ice beam on Cress, then use Return on Feraligatr for the extra power since we cover celebi nicely anyway.

Not much else to say, Raikoulover fixed all the major kinks really.

 

[Thorns]

Flashy pictures make all RMTs better!

I've added in all the changes - but input from other people is still welcome.

 

[Evil Hamster]

I can't say I like what Gyarados w/ Taunt can do here. It's setting up for free on Scizor, Cresselia and Dugtrio, and to a lesser extent Feraligatr, and after a DD it's probably going to pillage you. Not having Stealth Rock only exacerbates the problem. Swords Dance Lucario is another potential issue (if it has Crunch) but in reality it won't get many chances to set up, with only Choice Banded Night Slashes/Stone Edges from Dugtrio really letting it get into play. Zapdos can be pretty horrible too, particularly SubRoost variants which will stall Machamp out of Stone Edges whilst blocking confusion, and can stall Cresselia out of Ice Beams and block Thunder Wave.

I would first of all consider replacing Feraligatr with a very physically defensive Rest/Sleep Talk/Dragon Dance/Waterfall Gyarados. This gives you an answer to Lucario, as well as a way to absorb status which your team currently struggles with. For your Gyarados problems, I'm not quite so sure, but replacing Machamp with a Specs Jolteon might be worth considering. This allows you to revenge kill Gyarados even after a DD, helps against opposing Zapdos, and also pairs well with your own Gyarados. Sure, you lose Tyranitar coverage, but with Scizor and Dugtrio it won't be sweeping you any time soon.

Hope that helps :)

 

[Legacy Raider]

Hey

I don't really see how your Duggy always beats opposing Tyranitar leads. Look at these calcs:

CB Jolly Dugtrio EQ vs 252/0 Tyranitar: 80.7 - 95.5%
CB Tyranitar Crunch vs 0/0 Dugtrio: 181.0 - 213.3%

Even with Adamant, CB EQ is only a OHKO on Tyranitar 31% of the time. Based off this, I don't really see how good a lead Dugtrio would make. If I may, I suggest you change the CB to a Focus Sash. This way, you are ensured to beat opposing Tyranitar, and it gives you a safety buffer against random choice scarfers that might otherwise surprise Duggy. It also means that you can beat things like the new popular Focus Sash Ice Beam Tyranitar among other things. It also means you can trap and kill ScarfTran if you are full health. Duggy can also use Stealth Rock, which can be another option over Pursuit. I'll show you why:

Non-boosted (Focus Sash) Dugtrio Night Slash vs 0/0 Azelf: 50.9 - 60.5%

That is very barely a 2HKO. A switching Pursuit manages around 8% more than that, so is probably a redundant choice. Stealth Rock would be set up quite easily at the start of the battle, and so is a much better choice than Pursuit on Dugtrio.

If you're running Fire Blast on Machamp then use a Life Orb. You need it to 2HKO Skarmory with Fire Blast. Either that or drop the Adamant nature and switch to Naughty or something, but that would be greatly compromising Machamp's bulk.

Superpower is usually run on SD Scizor to get a strong hit against the predicted Heatran switch in, before you've had a chance to SD. I think, despite what people say about it being 'uneconomical', it is a better choice than Brick Break.

I would also consider Magnet Rise over Reflect or Substitute on Magnezone, because I think it is more helpful in taking on Metagross and EQ Bronzong and Forretress (who are a lot more common than you might think).

That's about all. Good luck with your team.

LR.

 

[Infamous]

I really recommend you go for Superpower over Brick Break.

Even if you are running SD, you might just need the extra boost, and since Scizor isn't exactly the best early-game-sweeper, you might need the extra power, whereas brick break might just be a little lacking.

I guess it all comes down on how you want to play your Scizor.

Are you going to use him as a late game or early game sweeper?

BTW: Where do you get those flashy pictures of the pokemon? I've been searching for them but I don't know where you can get them.

 

[faint]

Just wondering but what the hell does Feraligatr do that Kingdra doesn't do better? Kingdra has better typing, better movepool, and overall better stats. It also gets STAB Outrage, or you could just keep the same set you have now.

Only advantage I see now if Torrent Waterfalls, but is that really enough to use it over Kingdra?

 

[dynadox]

You probably should change the nature on Machamp from Adamant to Brave (+Atk, -Spe) since Machamp will be going last anyways and this way Fire Blast will do a little bit more damage to ensure those 2HKOs. You could use a Life Orb too. Otherwise the team looks great.

 

[Duck Tape Son]

Dugtrio as a lead isn't completely dumb, but I'm not so sure about the Choice Band on it. I mean, it gains access to Stealth Rock which you lack here, it gains access to Taunt but the coverage is better imo, with EQ, SE, and Night Slash. Just a suggestion

 

[Thorns]

I'll reply to all of these suggestions when I get on my PC, but all I fan say now is that I'll definitely make some changes.

 

[Lee]

At a glance, I'm wondering if you ever considered Flail over Return on Feraligatr...it seems worth a thought since you're already Subbing down to a Torrent boost. Of course there's a lot of disadvantages to using Flail but I'm sure you're aware of that. Just for reference, here's the Flail info.

21%-35% = 80 BP
11%-20% = 100 BP
5%-10% = 150 BP
0%-4% = 200 BP

Putting that to one side, your Feraligatr's EVs could be a little better. Two things really.

i) Your HP is set to 318 which allows for 4 Subs. That's fine if you go with Flail, since you'll be left with 1 HP but if you stick with Return you may as well set your HP so you can only make three subs. That way your Liechi Berry will activate at 25% instead of 1% giving you a little bit of protection against resisted priority attacks like Bullet Punch and Ice Shard as well as Sandstorm/Hail.

ii) Your speed is 273 (409 after a DD). That puts you a few steps behind the ever-common Scarftran who runs at 417 Speed.

To solve both problems, just run 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Jolly. As boring as it sounds, it allows you to activate your Liechi after three Subs and lets you outrun Scarftran after a DD and Adamant Lucario before a DD.

 

[subparpokemaster]

Just pointing out; but, with the prevalence of Tyranitar in the current metagame, Cresselia getting off a moonlight for 1/2 of her HP is quite the stretch. On that point, Cresselia has faded in popularity due to the number of CB Tyranitars and Scizors dish out much more SE pain than she can effectively take. She helps your team as a utility sponge: yes. Correct response to the current metagame? No.

 

[Thorns]

Evil Hamster: Feraligatr isn't being replaced, but thanks anyway.
Legacy Raider: Alright, then, I'll make the changes to Dugtrio, but Duggy is NOT a suicide lead. Superpower > Brick Break then.
Infamous: Superpower > Brick Break. Also, Arkeis.com has the Pokemon pictures.
XxFaintxX: Salamence is extremely popular, and Kingdra creates a Dragon weakness on my team, something I definitely do not want. And yes, Torrent Waterfalls are awesome.
dynadox: Brave it is.
Duck Tape Son: Yep, changes to Duggy.
Lee: EVs have been changed, but I'm staying with Return.
subparpokemaster: Cresselia isn't meant to stay in on Tar or Scizor - it's meant to sponge special hits and Salamence/Flygon.

If Olie's got anymore opinions with the changes...

 

[subparpokemaster]

Sad fact is, you see the majority of Tyranitars in lead. You have no weather changing influence, thus your Cresselia will most likely have largely ineffective moonlight. You might want to check me on this, but I'm fairly sure that such a thing will make it a little hard to take STAB Draco Meteors.

 

[boundersting1]

i reccomend changing light screen on cresselia to calm mind. calm mind boosts ice beam and your special defense which really helps. also i suggest putting special attack evs in cress to do more damage. perhaps take the 56 out of sp.def and put them into spc. att

 

[Dave]

At a glance, I see a huge Mence problem.

 

[Thorns]

subparpokemaster: Suggest something that can do what Cresselia does and counter Mence.
boundersting1: why?
stone_cold22: any suggestions?

 

[Woj]

I see a gyara weakness, that would be extremely difficult to play around.

Cress using moonlight in this meta is nearly reatrded since Ttar is spammed nearly everywhere and 25% is pretty lowly. I want to recomend charge beam on cress, but since you swear by t wave Im not entirely sure what to say u add for gyara, Vap prehaps?

 

[Thorns]

I was considering Vaporeon, for Wish support and the ability to take down Gyarados and some Dragons, but all my moveslots are very valuable and I'm not sure where to put it.

 

[subparpokemaster]

Zapdos. It tanks extremely well with Machamp, screws over Gyarados and as far as Salamence and Flygon counters, I advocate something other than Feraligatr. I don't buy into the whole "Feraligatr is better than Gyarados!!!1!!1!" argument.

 

[Woj]

I see gyara being a better DDer that Gatr on this team and in general.

Also Mence looks like it will be troublesome

 

[Thorns]

The reason I've been reluctant to add in Gyarados is not only Gyarados's inability to Sub down and sweep, but because of Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is an integral part of the metagame and I intend to beat the metagame with this team, not play along with it.

Still need advice on which slot for Zapdos.