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OU Stats - March 2013
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
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Yeah, I don't even really see that core that often at all. You would expect it to be really high in usage, but honestly I rarely ever see Keldeo and Landorus on the same team because most people see it not as overloading, but as compounding weaknesses. I'm not saying the core is bad at all, I'm just trying to rationalize why it isn't used as much as you might think.
| 39 | Lucario | 6.00059% | 82465 | 6.485% | 63086 | 6.172% |
| 41 | Conkeldurr | 5.55342% | 69536 | 5.468% | 55581 | 5.438% |
This is interesting; I would expect Conk to have more usage since it has a much easier time setting up than Lucario.Come to think of it though, Lucario does better against Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Celebi, Volcarona, and the Latis twins, while Conk is used mostly to take down defensive teams, which are more or less nonexistant now.
42 | Kyurem-Black | 5.35032% | 63400 | 4.986% | 47564 | 4.654% |
This looks like it will go down to BL soon, and I'm a bit surprised since it was once in ubers, and had some good uses there
| 52 | Tornadus | 3.15885% | 27707 | 2.179% | 21294 | 2.083% |
Tornadus would love to see the light of OU again, and it looks like it will soon, with all the rain teams running around.
| 73 | Gothitelle | 1.58394% | 15769 | 1.240% | 12759 | 1.248% |
Why is this so low? True; it might be outclassed by every psychic-type in OU if not for Shadow Tag, but trapping Terrakion choice-locked into Close Combat is something not everything can boast.
| 41 | Conkeldurr | 5.55342% | 69536 | 5.468% | 55581 | 5.438% |
This is interesting; I would expect Conk to have more usage since it has a much easier time setting up than Lucario.Come to think of it though, Lucario does better against Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Celebi, Volcarona, and the Latis twins, while Conk is used mostly to take down defensive teams, which are more or less nonexistant now.
42 | Kyurem-Black | 5.35032% | 63400 | 4.986% | 47564 | 4.654% |
This looks like it will go down to BL soon, and I'm a bit surprised since it was once in ubers, and had some good uses there
| 52 | Tornadus | 3.15885% | 27707 | 2.179% | 21294 | 2.083% |
Tornadus would love to see the light of OU again, and it looks like it will soon, with all the rain teams running around.
| 73 | Gothitelle | 1.58394% | 15769 | 1.240% | 12759 | 1.248% |
Why is this so low? True; it might be outclassed by every psychic-type in OU if not for Shadow Tag, but trapping Terrakion choice-locked into Close Combat is something not everything can boast.
Rain nerfs one of its STABs, it is frail, and has its fair amount of checks. Jellicent, Tentacruel, Landorus-T, Lati@s, have very little to worry about; Jelli and Cruel only "fear" the rare ThunderPunch, both not even guaranteed 2HKOes and a waste of a moveslot. Landorus-T has intimidate and resists Close Combat; it only really fears Overheat but in the rain it really doesn't care. With a Scarf it can just OHKO it. Latios and Latias only fear U-turn and both outspeed and OHKO Infernape (edit: Latias needs to be offensive).
There's just too many things that can dance around Infernape for it to deserve the usage it gets.
There's just too many things that can dance around Infernape for it to deserve the usage it gets.
One cannot deny that Rain is a sight less common now than it once was, and with that, fewer teams have a slew of water types to counter it. Everything has its weaknesses, but Infernape is very strong against a large portion of OU. Using it on a team that has an answer to Jellicent and Landorus (as examples) is key. A Pokemon does not have to win the match on its own to be effective, it merely has to cover the weaknesses of its own team and exploit the enemy's.
I feel that Infernape is just a pokemon hated by a bunch of bandwagon haters. Its dual high-powered STABs along with mixed offensive stats and good speed allow it to be a pesky threat to most teams lacking an answer to it. Rain is also decidedly less common than it used to be, and Sand actually is used more now according to statistics. This means one cannot simply throw away Infernape's Fire STAB which is very useful in the tier. Also, 7 percent is not that much usage, so complaining is now boring and unnecessary. Its getting very repetitive by a lot of users who feel that they have to complain every time stats are posted. Its a decent pokemon, stop hating, pass on by. IMO it is a threat that should be prepared for, and should never be tossed aside due to bad reputation.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Lol, that's not happening. Haxorus and Hydreigon have to worry more about dropping than Kyu-B.
Time for my controversial post for the monthly statistics thread!
Hydreigon is a pokemon that is over-rated. Sure Chansey is the only thing that can take two of Hydrei's best played hits, but that base 98 speed hurts it so much. Without the chance to raise its speed and change up moves, I don't see how it even sees usage when Latios is faster and stronger. If anyone saw the last CtP match a little while ago, it did absolutely nothing, and that's with two very skilled battlers. Sure Haxorus gets trolled even harder because of his base 97 speed, but it has Dragon Dance to rid him of that issue. I honestly feel like it should be dropped down to UU (or BL) but I doubt people will stop using it because of the "no counters" mindset.
Hydreigon is a pokemon that is over-rated. Sure Chansey is the only thing that can take two of Hydrei's best played hits, but that base 98 speed hurts it so much. Without the chance to raise its speed and change up moves, I don't see how it even sees usage when Latios is faster and stronger. If anyone saw the last CtP match a little while ago, it did absolutely nothing, and that's with two very skilled battlers. Sure Haxorus gets trolled even harder because of his base 97 speed, but it has Dragon Dance to rid him of that issue. I honestly feel like it should be dropped down to UU (or BL) but I doubt people will stop using it because of the "no counters" mindset.
Several of My points:
Poor, poor Reuniclus...... Despite being a monster in TR, It's just too slow for the fast paced
BW2 OU. In the turn it takes him to set up things will already switch in a counter, set up or just plain obliterate the Multicellular Organism. Have fun breaking UU 'clus.
(Insert random anti-Infernape ranting )
Haxo's got a hard time in OU . Several faster, bulkier , more movepooler(?) Dragons outclass him, he's got a hard time setting up and he's a bit on the frail side leading to fast OHKOes or 2HKOes.
K
Poor, poor Reuniclus...... Despite being a monster in TR, It's just too slow for the fast paced
BW2 OU. In the turn it takes him to set up things will already switch in a counter, set up or just plain obliterate the Multicellular Organism. Have fun breaking UU 'clus.
(Insert random anti-Infernape ranting )
Haxo's got a hard time in OU . Several faster, bulkier , more movepooler(?) Dragons outclass him, he's got a hard time setting up and he's a bit on the frail side leading to fast OHKOes or 2HKOes.
K
So true, and I find their cases sad too. I'm not so worried about Hax, as it is easily revenged by almost every scarf use in OU, but Hyd is just a sad case. Whatever happened to its Choice Scarf Set? True, it might be a bit outclassed by Salamence and Garchomp, but Hydreigon lacks and SR weakness, and has a better movepool than Garchomp.
The most effective set of Inferpane isn't to sweep, but is rather to put a dent/faint with either of it's monstrously STABs, or with it's powerful moves such as Stone Edge and Earthquake. Since it's purpose isn't to sweep, checks ad counters don't matter, all you have to do it hit hard and run.
And the metagame isn't so much on the rain now, only 25% is. Which is high in itself, but not enough to say Fire moves are now useless completely.
And that's what U-Turn is for, I mean of course to scout it's checks, meaning that you can't just blindly bring Latia/os, you'd want a safe-switch in.
Landorus-T has intimidate - All the physical Pokemons aren't useless, now are they? I think there are more Physical attackers than Special attackers in OU.
Yeah I know my argument sorta sucks, I'm not good at explaining stuff or to even state my points <_<
Hmm, I actually use Donphan and Infernape in my offensive team.
What I like about Infernape is it's unique speed and the ability to run a mixed set and in doing so being able to put a severe dent in pretty much the whole metagame. Gyarados, Slowbro and Jellicent, some of the most comon switch-ins on Infernape dont like a ThunderPunch to the face, while Gliscor and Hippowdon will not appreciate an Overheat.
Quagsire, Gastrodon and Swampert give the monkey a hard time but switching into a close combat is no fun thing to do for them.
Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite and the Lati twins also take him on, but this makes Infernape a great lure for these mons. I pair Infernape with Porygon2 who can take anything dragons throw at it and can strike back with T-Wave and Ice Beam. Scizor pairs up with it well too as it can pursuit-trap the lati twins.
I'm less enthousiastic about Donphan but it definitely has a niche thanks to a unique combination. It's major downside is it's lack of recovery and vulnerability to Toxic but rapid spinners are scarce. What I dislike about forretress is it's inability to do anything else than rapid spinning and laying hazards, making it setup/taunt bait. Donphan actually has a respectable STAB move and a (weak) priority move that hits a lot of things SE.
At the moment I cant find the mon I want to replace Dophan with. I find myself using Ice Shard and Earthquake a lot and I feel I do need a rapid spinner.
What I like about Infernape is it's unique speed and the ability to run a mixed set and in doing so being able to put a severe dent in pretty much the whole metagame. Gyarados, Slowbro and Jellicent, some of the most comon switch-ins on Infernape dont like a ThunderPunch to the face, while Gliscor and Hippowdon will not appreciate an Overheat.
Quagsire, Gastrodon and Swampert give the monkey a hard time but switching into a close combat is no fun thing to do for them.
Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite and the Lati twins also take him on, but this makes Infernape a great lure for these mons. I pair Infernape with Porygon2 who can take anything dragons throw at it and can strike back with T-Wave and Ice Beam. Scizor pairs up with it well too as it can pursuit-trap the lati twins.
I'm less enthousiastic about Donphan but it definitely has a niche thanks to a unique combination. It's major downside is it's lack of recovery and vulnerability to Toxic but rapid spinners are scarce. What I dislike about forretress is it's inability to do anything else than rapid spinning and laying hazards, making it setup/taunt bait. Donphan actually has a respectable STAB move and a (weak) priority move that hits a lot of things SE.
At the moment I cant find the mon I want to replace Dophan with. I find myself using Ice Shard and Earthquake a lot and I feel I do need a rapid spinner.
I don't think you really know that much about hydreigon. If you're facing a Hydreigon, the foe will usually lose a pokemon if they don't predict accurately. Substitute allows hydreigon to beat offensive teams easier if you predict correctly. You also forget that hydreigon DOES have a way to boost its speed in the form of tailwind. While hydreigon's base speed hurts it, it also allows it to use a modest nature, meaning that it hits HARDER than latios. Hydreigon also has a better attack stat than latios, meaning it can 2HKO jirachi with EQ. Don't forget that hydriegon has access to fire blast and focus blast, meaning that steel types can't switch in for free.
Hydreigon may not be the best pokemon because of its speed, but it still is an amazing pokemon because of its movepool and power and deserves to be OU.
Think about it, if the opponent swtiches into a counter as Reuniclus uses Trick Room, then it's already too late. Reuniclus wont have to take a hit because it out speeds pretty much the entire tier under TR. Also, I think your underestimating its bulk. The standard OTR set can tank a +1 Outrage from Salamence from full health and has a decent chance of survival, which is quite a feat indeed. I am biased about Reuniclus because I've used him extensively, but I must say that he is seriously underestimated in OU, and if he drops you UU he WILL be BL. The only thing he really requires team support wise is Steel types such as Jirachi and Scizor gone, and of course Blissey and Chansey. After that, he can pretty much OHKO wreck the entire tier with its superb coverage and really powerful STAB Psychic. He's NOT an out classed Psychic, as his OTR set plays a completely different role then Latias' CM set or Latios' Choice Specs set. He's going to drop eventually, but UU wont take it well. Besides, technically Reuniclus is one of the fastest Pokemon in the game under TR, so the argument of it being too slow is slightly invalid, as it forces a lot of switches and can out speed the entire tier in just one turn.
Probably just Reuniclus, Haxorus, and Tornadus. Amazing? I would have to disagree.
Bronzong is outclassed by numerous pokemon making it UU such as Ferrothorn. The only extra thing you get is Earthquake and a stronger Hidden Power [Ice], even then Forretress gets those same moves js except with Rapid Spin and having access to Spikes as well or it can just use boring old Stealth Rock.
Chansey went to BL for a reason. While it has above than above-average defense it is so weak, it is a set-up fodder and has two many other flaws as well and Blissey can do the same thing with better offenses.
Weavile is outclassed by Mamoswine in bulk and strength. Weavile even has an SR weakness. The only thing extra you are getting is Swords Dance, which is hard to set-up, speed, and Pursuit.
Sableye has absolutely no offensive presence, and has bad defenses too. Prankster can annoy but nothing more.
Kingdra and Victini rely on rain and sun, respectively.
Tailwind is very gimmicky and only lasts for 4 turns and can be stalled out by prediction. Tailwind is more of a support move than a boosting move. Plus, Earth Power hits both SpD Jirachi and Heatran harder so I don't understand why EQ is even ran. On the topic of Latios, it has access to Dragon Dance and I have ran it with great success since everyone expects something like a DM from it.
Hydreigon is the type of pokemon that does not fit well in the OU metagame because of its speed, but would fit better in the Uber metagame.
EQ is used since it hits Jirachi harder than EP after Hydreigon has used Draco Meteor.
Uhh, I wouldn't really say Hydreigon is overrated... I would say that it's UNDERrated. It's hardly getting much use to begin with, so I'm pretty sure that means people are shying away from using it for a reason.
That being said, I think Hydreigon is actually very good. A common mistake people make when talking about Hydreigon is that it can't boost it's speed or anything like that, and say it's outclassed. Well, the thing is, it's not meant to sweep. It's meant to punch holes in teams thanks to the fact that virtually nothing can safely switch in on it, without the risk of being 2HKO/OHKOd. Because of that capability, it's arguably the best wallbreaker in the tier. Even against more offensive teams, once Hydreigon can get in safely against something slower that it (which isn't too hard thanks to it's good bulk, and keep in mind that 98 base speed isn't SLOW, it's just a bit slower than certain threats that define speed), it can pose an immediate threat to opposing team and threaten to kill something. From there it's teammates can pick off the the remains with ease.
Now don't get me wrong, it's not perfect. It does have an annoying Fighting type weakness and it's speed (while NOT slow) is just a bit slow for handling some common threats like Salamence and the musketeers. Regardless, it's sheer destructive potential is an incredible asset that should not be overlooked in the current metagame.
But if you are using hydreigon to wallbreak, why not just use mixmence? It's spatt is a bit lower but its attack makes up for it. Plus its ability is not useless (either one!)
Or for that matter, use band kyu-b... 4 ou pokes aren't 2hkod. And that is only considering outrage. With hydreigon you need to choose the correct move/etc. It doesn't matter if you can 2hko everything with the specs set. The fact of the matter is, you can only choose one move so after you do choose that move there are now a huge amount of pokemon that can safely switch in.
Add rocks or spikes and that list is cut in half
Wallbreaking is not difficult to any degree any more and it certainly does not entirely warrant a pokemon's use to be able to do so.
And while hydreigon isn't used a bunch, it is INCREDIBLY overrated. Everywhere people are talking about how great it is... but then thye don't put it to use because it really isn't that great.
Overrated and overused are much different things
Well, Hyderigon isn't weak to Stealth Rocks, unlike Salamence, so that's a plus. Also it has access to Superpower, letting it break through things like Tyranitar more easily. And Levitate is far from a useless ability; the ability to be immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes and Earthquakes is pretty good.
Now I have to ask, where are you hearing all these people saying Hydreigon is amazing? Usually I see people talking about it's flaws, much like you and G-Von are right now. I was under the impression that most people thought that Hydreigon wasn't good, but perhaps I thought wrong.
However, mixmence is also a pretty poor wallbreaker because of weakness to SR, lack of fighting move and reliance on outrage to beat special walls. Kyurem-B has the same problems. Hydreigon has the advantage of a better movepool, meaning that stuff like air balloon heatran cannot switch in for free. Levitate is not useless since it allows hydreigon to freely switch in on ground type attacks, and have a spikes immunity. Substitute hydreigon is actually better than the classic wallbreaking hydreigon because it eases prediction and allows hydreigon to tank status moves. Hydreigon really is a great pokemon despite its limitations.
EDIT: Falsesense beat me to it.
Personally, I have used Hydreigon to decent success. However, the problem with Hydreigon is that terrible speed. He is an amazing wallbreaker, probably the best in OU. Honestly, though, no one runs dedicated wallbreakers anymore, because the metagame has become so fast paced, and the power creep allows pokes to smash through 'walls' easily. I really like Hydreigon, and it is still decent, but there is a reason why it's underused in P.O. and very lowly used here. I think personally Hydreigon is neither overrated nor underrated, I feel it's getting about as much usage as it deserves.
So, I was hanging out with a buddy last night and we were trading off between Mega Man X Collection and Pokemon Showdown. He threw together a team with Baton Pass Venomoth and Hydreigon did WAY more work than it had any right doing, and that's coming from a fan of Hydreigon. He was running Dragon Pulse/Dark Pulse/Fire Blast/Earth Power and he was winning games before turns hit double digits. Presumably, with Focus Blast in there he would have had WAY less trouble with SpDef TTar and if he had hazards (hint: Someone should totally do these things and come back here with your results), but honestly, what's holding Hydreigon back from sweeping everything and their mother is a lack of good boosting moves.
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