Other OU Pokemon Categorization Thread

[Jin White]

I immediately looked to the Stealth Rocks category, because I'm often struggling to find a versatile setter who doesn't seem tacked onto my team for that sole purpose. Would be great to see more diversity in that category. Here are some options maybe you could use.

Bisharp manages to get up rocks because of how many switches it forces for fear of Sucker Punch. It has the added benefit of punishing Defog with Defiant and Rapid Spin with a powerful Sucker Punch. It doesn't struggle for a moveslot, either, as Knock Off / Iron Head / Sucker Punch comprise its main use.

Chansey is one of the most durable rocks setters, able to come in freely on virtually any special hit and set up rocks again, and again, and again. It also further punishes physical switch-ins with Thunder Wave and of course keeps itself healthy for the long game. While it's a total momentum killer for offensive teams, it's a reliable setter for bulky/stall teams.

 

[Nuanda92]

Nice discussion, this will be a help in teambuilding for everyone.

I suggest Mew in the Utility category. Defog + Stealth Rock + Wow
And the same pokemon in the category stallbraker: Knock off + Taunt + Wow
Deoxys-S and ditto in the category Revenge Killers.

 

[kingmidas]

Forretress in spinners/defoggers and spike setters would be a good idea.
While the gen shift hurt it a ton, it still is bulky as hell on the physical side, and can preform a role.

 

[Ajwf]

Chesnaught to be added to aegislash checks. One of it's main reasons for viability this gen. Kabutops to be removed from spinners... I'm pretty sure the only set this gen is rain full offensive. Gliscor to be removed, too... If I recall correctly, it cannot use defog in conjunction with poison heal. Blastoise-mega to be added to spinners. It is the best in the game, it should deserve at least a mention. Due to CBBNite, I recommend also including a mention in defensive. Fairly certain mew can be included in stall breakers due to taunt/wisp set it runs when not defogging (or when it sacrifices the one attacking move it can carry).

We could also include alomomola and mantine to defensive. Not terribly keen on mantine as I due think gyarados does better but for the once niche in defog, but alomomola is a pretty good stall poke.

 

[Nuanda92]

Forretress in spinners/defoggers and spike setters would be a good idea.
While the gen shift hurt it a ton, it still is bulky as hell on the physical side, and can preform a role.

Even I had thought of Suggesting Forretress and Starmie in category: Spinners / defoggers but the problem Is that Aegislash ALWAYS switch on rapid spin and often fail to remove the azard. They are not like Excadrill That Kill aegislash with eq, they are useless in this metagame. :/ (Although I wish that Starmie was talk a bit more)

 

[Nuanda92]

Oh, other suggestion is to add Volcarona to Setup Sweepers! (Quiver Dance OBV) :v

 

[TheInsanity]

Also no one mentioned volt switchers/u-turners.

Volturn teams are popular in this gen, probably more than bw/bw2 with some nice new users, like mega manetric, mega ampharos (lul), greninja, talonflame. Also someone extend this strategy not only in offensive teams, but even in stall.
This strategy/playstyle deserve a spot.

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Added a section for particularly effective Set-up sweepers as well as a section for Volt-turn teams.

Oh, other suggestion is to add Volcarona to Setup Sweepers! (Quiver Dance OBV) :v

Will almost definitely be added to set-up sweepers once We have gotten to the C ranked pokemon :)

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

not sure how you can have an aegislash check section but not have diggersby in it lol

 

[Nuanda92]

Added a section for particularly effective Set-up sweepers as well as a section for Volt-turn teams.



Will almost definitely be added to set-up sweepers once We have gotten to the C ranked pokemon :)

Ah you are proceeding in order ... Okay, great ...!

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Added C and D rank to Offensive / Defensive categories. May not be 100% accurate, Also need everyone's feedback on what goes where for things like wallbreakers/Stealth rocks etc

 

[Sidnv]

I really like your section on checks to specific pokemon. It can really help with teambuilding. I think it combines well with the Victim of the Week thread so maybe whenever a new pokemon gets added to that thread, you could take the checks and counters mentioned and add them to your list.

 

[Nuanda92]

Can suggest 4 viable volt turn
Jirachi, Victini, Cobalion, Jolteon, Azelf(Uxie & Mesprit), Mienshao, Staraptor, Hydreigon, Hawlucha, Noivern, Darmanitan, Infernape, Crobat, Mew, Celebi.
are not top threats, but are pokemon that are still used even if little. Of course I am not talking about Beedrill or Pidgeot LOL

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Just stick to stuff that's ranked.

 

[Subject 18]

All right. Time to refine these sections.

- Spinners / Defoggers
Remove Kabutops, Gliscor and Togekiss. Kabutops never runs Rapid Spin considering that the only time its used its for offensive purposes and it can't afford spinning. Gliscor isn't a good Defog user, it has to give up Poison Heal to be able to use Defog (breeding and legality stuff) and I've yet to see anyone good use Defog on it. As for Togekiss, I don't even see it in the tier. It's really really niche therefore I don't think should warrant a mention.

- Stealth Rock
Remove Mega Mawile as it never runs SR despite it learning it. Mega Tyranitar considering that Support Mega Tyranitar isn't that great and DD is far superior, if you wanted to run SR Tyranitar, you would use regular Tyranitar.

- Priority
Arcanine? Mega Banette? Sharpedo? Togekiss? Deoxys-Speed? Please remove these...

- Baton Pass
Add Celebi and Mew.

- Offensive Pokemon
Remove: Espeon, Exploud, Mega Abomasnow, Ludicolo, regular Gardevoir, Escavalier, Kyurem, Venomoth, Hawlucha, Haxorus, Krookodile, Toxicroak, Roserade, Salamence, Reuniclus, Moltres, regular Alakazam

- Defensive Pokemon
Remove Shuckle, Snorlax, Empoleon, Dugtrio, Mega Banette, Arcanine, Jirachi, Cloyster, Cofagrigus, Wobbuffet, Gourgeist, Magnezone.

- Stallbreaker
Add Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Sableye, Mew.

- Wallbreakers
Add Aegislash, Zard Y, Diggersby, Mega Garchomp, Azumarill, Mega Pinsir,
Remove Exploud. Also why is Victini here?

- Setup sweepers
Add Landorus-I, Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Azumarill, Thundurus-I, Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, Kabutops, Mega Ampharos, Suicune, Clefable.
Remove Zygarde and Bisharp.

That's what I would change from that first part. Along with probably remove Rotom-H entirely but I don't really mind it. I might have missed some stuff but I'll take another look later.

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Hide

All right. Time to refine these sections.

- Spinners / Defoggers
Remove Kabutops, Gliscor and Togekiss. Kabutops never runs Rapid Spin considering that the only time its used its for offensive purposes and it can't afford spinning. Gliscor isn't a good Defog user, it has to give up Poison Heal to be able to use Defog (breeding and legality stuff) and I've yet to see anyone good use Defog on it. As for Togekiss, I don't even see it in the tier. It's really really niche therefore I don't think should warrant a mention.

- Stealth Rock
Remove Mega Mawile as it never runs SR despite it learning it. Mega Tyranitar considering that Support Mega Tyranitar isn't that great and DD is far superior, if you wanted to run SR Tyranitar, you would use regular Tyranitar.

- Priority
Arcanine? Mega Banette? Sharpedo? Togekiss? Deoxys-Speed? Please remove these...

- Baton Pass
Add Celebi and Mew.

- Offensive Pokemon
Remove: Espeon, Exploud, Mega Abomasnow, Ludicolo, regular Gardevoir, Escavalier, Kyurem, Venomoth, Hawlucha, Haxorus, Krookodile, Toxicroak, Roserade, Salamence, Reuniclus, Moltres, regular Alakazam

- Defensive Pokemon
Remove Shuckle, Snorlax, Empoleon, Dugtrio, Mega Banette, Arcanine, Jirachi, Cloyster, Cofagrigus, Wobbuffet, Gourgeist, Magnezone.

- Stallbreaker
Add Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Sableye, Mew.

- Wallbreakers
Add Aegislash, Zard Y, Diggersby, Mega Garchomp, Azumarill, Mega Pinsir,
Remove Exploud. Also why is Victini here?

- Setup sweepers
Add Landorus-I, Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Azumarill, Thundurus-I, Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, Kabutops, Mega Ampharos, Suicune, Clefable.
Remove Zygarde and Bisharp.

That's what I would change from that first part. Along with probably remove Rotom-H entirely but I don't really mind it. I might have missed some stuff but I'll take another look later.

Should be updated :)

 

[Nuanda92]

All right. Time to refine these sections.

- Spinners / Defoggers
Remove Kabutops, Gliscor and Togekiss. Kabutops never runs Rapid Spin considering that the only time its used its for offensive purposes and it can't afford spinning. Gliscor isn't a good Defog user, it has to give up Poison Heal to be able to use Defog (breeding and legality stuff) and I've yet to see anyone good use Defog on it. As for Togekiss, I don't even see it in the tier. It's really really niche therefore I don't think should warrant a mention.

- Stealth Rock
Remove Mega Mawile as it never runs SR despite it learning it. Mega Tyranitar considering that Support Mega Tyranitar isn't that great and DD is far superior, if you wanted to run SR Tyranitar, you would use regular Tyranitar.

- Priority
Arcanine? Mega Banette? Sharpedo? Togekiss? Deoxys-Speed? Please remove these...

- Baton Pass
Add Celebi and Mew.

- Offensive Pokemon
Remove: Espeon, Exploud, Mega Abomasnow, Ludicolo, regular Gardevoir, Escavalier, Kyurem, Venomoth, Hawlucha, Haxorus, Krookodile, Toxicroak, Roserade, Salamence, Reuniclus, Moltres, regular Alakazam

- Defensive Pokemon
Remove Shuckle, Snorlax, Empoleon, Dugtrio, Mega Banette, Arcanine, Jirachi, Cloyster, Cofagrigus, Wobbuffet, Gourgeist, Magnezone.

- Stallbreaker
Add Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Sableye, Mew.

- Wallbreakers
Add Aegislash, Zard Y, Diggersby, Mega Garchomp, Azumarill, Mega Pinsir,
Remove Exploud. Also why is Victini here?

- Setup sweepers
Add Landorus-I, Mega Mawile, Diggersby, Azumarill, Thundurus-I, Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir, Kabutops, Mega Ampharos, Suicune, Clefable.
Remove Zygarde and Bisharp.

That's what I would change from that first part. Along with probably remove Rotom-H entirely but I don't really mind it. I might have missed some stuff but I'll take another look later.

I agree with you about these pokemon. However, I pointed out the pokemon that would keep those categories. Toxicroak (occasionally) see you around, especially in some rain. Learn Gunk Shot which is very powerful for the fairies. Empoleon. I found myself having to choose him as an alternative to defensive pokemon Heatran when I realized that it is one of the best counter Mega Mawile (without Focus Punch) and Azumarill. Empoleon also add to the category Stealth rock and defogger. Then there is Kyurem. Imo the fact that both Stall braker not mean it can not also belong to the category offensive pokemon. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Adonzo]

Pranksters should be a separate category from Priority in the OP, as they serve different purposes, Pranksters being supportive disruptors, Priority being revenge killers.

 

[NoahStar]

I see that Bisharp is in the counters section for Aegislash, but I would like to contest that. While Bisharp is the best answer to Aegi most of the time in my opinion, many good players will play really aggressively with their Aegi if they see Bisharp in team preview. I can't count how many times I've been afraid to switch in my Bisharp because of Sacred Sword. On sets that don't run SS, Bisharp is a full counter to Aegi as it can either threaten to OHKO with Knock Off, or Pursuit trap it. However, I'm seeing that SS is making a huge comeback for Aegi so many Bisharp users will really need to be cautious.

I think he should be moved to the 'checks' section for that reason alone.

 

[the-bumper-car]

I'd suggest we refine Volt-turners to be "Pivots", since that's what their main purpose is - a way for the Volt Switch/U-turn user to scout the opponent's team while maintaining momentum, usually through forcing an advantageous match-up. In this case, not every Volt-turner is a good pivot, as some of them are either too terrible defensively to be able to switch in, while the offensive volt-turners need to be able to scare away the opponent. So good examples of pivots are Rotom-W, Scizor, Landorus, Greninja, Raikou, and Zapdos.

Also the Offensive Pokemon is too unwieldy and large category right now - maybe we split it up into Specially Offensive and Physically Offensive? (Mixed falls under Wallbreaker, obviously).

 

[Nuanda92]

Please add Sylveon in category Greninja Counters, Umbreon is useless XD

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Please add Sylveon in category Greninja Counters, Umbreon is useless XD

The Counters and checks are based on this thread's data:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/victim-of-the-week-3-0-week-7-mawile.3509781/

If you want to argue a case about adding more to the list or removing, please add some more information to support your argument explaining why it should be added :)

 

[NOVED]

I just want to point out that Sharpedo doesn't even learn baton pass.

 

[deuntre4]

i think you should add talonflame under set up sweeper because of it sword dance life prb/sharp beak set and also it bulk up set

 

[X5Dragon]

Slowbro shouldn't be mentioned as a counter to Charizard X, a +1 Adamant Dragon Claw is a 2HKO, and not considering lesser used options such as Outrage and Thunder Punch.

Also if you are going to list all roles you might as well mention Trappers (Magnezone, Gothitelle, Wobbufett) and. VoltTurners (Rotom-W, Mega Manentric, Mega Scizor, Landrous-T,etc.)

Edit: Seems you like the volt turn thingy covered after all, but there a LOT of non OU pokemon on these lists, once you go through the edits mods have suggested we'll help you clean up.