ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

[Century Express]

Yeah, I agree that Salamence shouldn't drop. I know it has flaws a DDer, and Mixed has it problems almost always losing momentum vs stuff like Florges, but i feel that he provides a absurd amount of utility on a lot of team, it's pretty much a cost-free mon. It isn't only a DDer or a random attacker, it's a amazing Fight- and Fire-resist, decent Ground-immunity, Scald switch-in (shaky, but I don't think that people should be so paranoid that 100% of Suicunes run Ice Beam, Lum gives him a cute amount of set-up opportunities), and solid Defog user as well. 3 Attacks + Roost depending of your team is amazing, since you can make it flexible to lure Florges | Empoleon. I feel that Salamence is a kind of essential mon that band-aid a lot of UU teambuildings and natural offensive presence is too good to overlook, also 4x Ice-type weakness isn't the end of the world.

Reuniclus is more A than A- material imo, and Milotic | Forry in B+ or A- sounds cool to me as well.

 

[tmacbalanced]

Cresselia from B+ to A-
From my experience on using this fatty is that it can take hits and dish hits and do so much more. In my opinion, probably the best at supporting teams with it's great movepool, bulk, set-up, status spreading, etc. The fact that Cresselia can check huge threats like Salamence and NidoQueen and Infernape is pretty big. Not many pokemon can boast these feats. It even has ways to cripple its checks and counters which is pretty awesome. Sure, it doesn't really bring in momentum which can suck but it does have screens and lunar dance to help the team last longer/give it set-up opportunities. What I really like about Cresselia is how it can be such an amazing bulky pivot throughout the game and reliable recovery definitely helps out with this.
What's also cool is how it can fit into all 3 playstyles since she can be a wall, a bulky pivot, a set-up sweeper, and support.
Thanks for hearing me out and would love to read other people's input on this.

 

[ProfessorMasterChief]

Cresselia from B+ to A-
From my experience on using this fatty is that it can take hits and dish hits and do so much more. In my opinion, probably the best at supporting teams with it's great movepool, bulk, set-up, status spreading, etc. The fact that Cresselia can check huge threats like Salamence and NidoQueen and Infernape is pretty big. Not many pokemon can boast these feats. It even has ways to cripple its checks and counters which is pretty awesome. Sure, it doesn't really bring in momentum which can suck but it does have screens and lunar dance to help the team last longer/give it set-up opportunities. What I really like about Cresselia is how it can be such an amazing bulky pivot throughout the game and reliable recovery definitely helps out with this.
What's also cool is how it can fit into all 3 playstyles since she can be a wall, a bulky pivot, a set-up sweeper, and support.
Thanks for hearing me out and would love to read other people's input on this.

I support this nomination. Cresselia is such a pain in the ass to defeat, hence why it is often called "Moon Duck Cunt". Calm mind and twave means that it is not exactly "passive", but it does still give some free turns, and has a mediocre defensive typing, which is why it should only be A- at most imo.

 

[ict]

As I've been messing around a lot with Cresselia recently I definetely agree on a rise to be honest, maybe even higher. I find it very easy to splash Cresselia on every type of build. The sheer amount of support it provides is just something you can only take advantage of. It's just an overall check to everything lmao, like you can run the Lunar Dance support set which is decent for bulky offense teams and just gives you an overall check with something bulky offense usually has troubles with (Nidoking, Infernape etc.) and proceeds to glue your team together decently. Hell you can even use Cress on offense like a Sub CM variant is incredibly good right now imo. But right now the best set probably is Calm Mind 2 Attacks Colbur its just so hard to handle especially cuz it actually beats the mons that are very common and beat Cress like Krook, Absol or just powerful knock off users. Escavalier doesnt even pose that much of a threat towards cress cuz pursuit is like gonna do 0 so yh, def supporting a Cress rise fam

 

[Aquadext]

I support a rise in ranking for Cresselia, I already nom'd it a few times ago but got ignored ;_;

Something I want to discuss is

Cresselia's viability in UU, and whether or not it deserves a rise in rankings (from B+ to A-). I'm leaning towards a yes, but some people seem to disagree, so I'll just give my opinion on the matter.

Building effectively in UU is incredibly hard right now, as with the latest drops, there are way too many threats to account for. Role compression is the key to success, and is also the reason why mons like Swampert or Whimsicott are so popular. For this reason, Cresselia is a pokémon that I found to be extremely effective lately, as it brings many, many useful traits to a team and checks a mad number of relevant threats, all of this in only one teamslot. It is a sturdy fighting resist and physical wall, that can also reliably check many (not too strong) special attackers. It checks: Aerodactyl, Salamence, Swampert-mega, Cobalion, Gyarados, Mamoswine, Florges, Zapdos, Nidos, Infernape, Toxicroak (and many more, I just looked at the highest viability rankings). Not only is it a great all-around check, but it also serves as a strong win condition with its CM set (which I prefer over other sets), which P2 (which is often compared with Cress') cannot do. I am aware that on more "fat" teams, Reuniclus/Slowking/Florges are better choices as CM users, but in (bulky) offensive teams that have very few room to dedicate to checking things, Cresselia definitely has more advantages.

For all these reasons, I think Cresselia should see a rise in viability rankings.

 

[Highways]

Tbh, I think that both Milotc and Forry are underrated, how Yes. said, they're deserving a higher rank than B-, B+/A- is perfect for both, Forretress has a special niche, that is Setup Spikes and Spin-Off them, give you momentum with Volt-Switch and do a lot of damage in some fast Pokémon like Aerodactyl-Mega, and imo, the Specially Defensive set is really very good right now, with Alakazam being the most dangerous Pokémon in the Metagame, and without Hidden Power [Fire] Alakazam can't 2HKO/OHKO Forretress. Milotic, has a niche too, it ability to Phraze with both Dragon Tail or Haze is really very useful right now, so, yes, I think that it can go up on the viability.

 

[Adaam]

Problem with Forry is that it's shut down by any Ghost-type in the tier which really hampers its unique niche of role compression. Not to mention it losers to way too many hazard removes, which makes it difficult to maintain Spikes or Stealth Rock (think any defogger ever). Sure it checks a handful of things like M-Aero, Zam, and Puff but that doesn't really mean much when 100% of the time they're paired with something that straight up dumpsters it (any Fire type, set up sweeper, etc). B- is fine for it.

Milotic deserves a raise though. Zam + Gyara drops made it so good.

 

[Cheryl.]

Gardevoir from B+ to B

I think this mon went unoticed for a bit and never dropped I guess. Gardevoir suffers from Alakazam dropping due to Alakazam's higher speed without having to run a Scarf set, and it's higher power with Life Orb without having to take LO recoil like Garde does if it runs that set. Gardevoir's only notable niches over Zam is it's Fairy STAB and utility moves in Memento, Healing Wish, and Trick on Choice sets, but it still isn't enough of a niche over Zam to make it better than any of the B+ mons, and I think it fits better in B due to losing a lot of it's niche as an offensive Psychic type due to Zam dropping.

 

[ict]

Gardevoir from B+ to B

I think this mon went unoticed for a bit and never dropped I guess. Gardevoir suffers from Alakazam dropping due to Alakazam's higher speed without having to run a Scarf set, and it's higher power with Life Orb without having to take LO recoil like Garde does if it runs that set. Gardevoir's only notable niches over Zam is it's Fairy STAB and utility moves in Memento, Healing Wish, and Trick on Choice sets, but it still isn't enough of a niche over Zam to make it better than any of the B+ mons, and I think it fits better in B due to losing a lot of it's niche as an offensive Psychic type due to Zam dropping.

uhm no, i completly disagree here. i dont think gardevoir necessarily suffers from zam dropping because they kinda differ from each other in a way. i think gardevoir is pretty fucking valuable for offensive teams like ho because it provides an insanely good dragon check which are often a nightmare for ho's, it actually has imidiate power over some things like slurpuff and has a really great ability. the specs set is very very good still and is one of the best wallbreakers in uu. the scarf set can function very well on offense teams as its like i mentioned a great dragon switchin and also has access to healing wish which is p valuable. i dont think the 'niches' you mentioned make it worth to drop it, because it can still fullfill a lot of roles for teams which alakazam cannnot, gardevoir is way to good to compete with the B mons so B+ is completely fine where it is and shouldnt be changed

 

[Take Azelfie]

Gardevoir from B+ to B

I think this mon went unoticed for a bit and never dropped I guess. Gardevoir suffers from Alakazam dropping due to Alakazam's higher speed without having to run a Scarf set, and it's higher power with Life Orb without having to take LO recoil like Garde does if it runs that set. Gardevoir's only notable niches over Zam is it's Fairy STAB and utility moves in Memento, Healing Wish, and Trick on Choice sets, but it still isn't enough of a niche over Zam to make it better than any of the B+ mons, and I think it fits better in B due to losing a lot of it's niche as an offensive Psychic type due to Zam dropping.

I disagree a lot with this. The difference between Zam and Gardevoir is that Gardevoir has many more tools to abuse that Alakazam doesn't + a Fairy typing which can allow it to switch into Dragon types on a safe prediction. Yes if you need a fast Psychic-type Alakazam can do that role without locking itself into a move but I feel that Gardevoir can reword your team after it is weakened. I use it a lot with Entei and Mega Swampert and it fits in perfectly.

 

[Kalawishis]

I've been thinking of this for a while, and I've decided. I don't believe this has been nominated before, but if it has, I apologize.

Entei from A+ to S (fixed)

This meta has been highly beneficial to Entei, given that it does well against the new mons. It can switch into the Will-O-Wisp of Sableye and force it out. It switches in and beats Metagross, and can easily switch into scarf Gardevoir and beat that as well. No physical attacker can switch in on it due to fear of the burn. Even faster physical mons that do well against it, like Mega Aerodactyl, have to wait for the sack to die before they can switch in. Even special attackers like Mega Blastoise don't appreciate a burn. Furthermore, Fire-types cannot switch in with safety due to fear of Stone Edge, which can OHKO or do heavy damage to things that would otherwise hard counter Entei, like Arcanine and Chandelure, Honestly, there is no Pokemon in UU that can reliably switch in on an Entei and beat it without taking heavy damage, except for Suicune, among other bulky water (which don't appreciate the burn) and Snorlax.

Entei should move up more than anything due to ability to completely cripple an opposing team. It can switch in numerous opportunities, made more numerous by the new meta, and punch an Entei-sized hole into whatever is unlucky enough to switch in. It's weakness to Stealth Rock is annoying, but that can mitigated by proper hazard control, and even without hazard control it still has four opportunities to spam Sacred Fire.

I haven't even mentioned how good a late-game cleaner it is with Extreme Speed yet, or how its bulk is surprisingly good. I haven't even mentioned it's non-Choice Band sets. There's always its Assault Vest set, which lets it consistently beat both Sash and Life Orb Alakazam.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

I've been thinking of this for a while, and I've decided. I don't believe this has been nominated before, but if it has, I apologize.

Entei from A to S

This meta has been highly beneficial to Entei, given that it does well against the new mons. It can switch into the Will-O-Wisp of Sableye and force it out. It switches in and beats Metagross, and can easily switch into the Hyper Voice of Gardevoir and beat that as well. No physical attacker can switch in on it due to fear of the burn. Even faster physical mons that do well against it, like Mega Aerodactyl, have to wait for the sack to die before they can switch in. Even special attackers like Mega Blastoise don't appreciate a burn. Furthermore, Fire-types cannot switch in with safety due to fear of Stone Edge, which can OHKO or do heavy damage to things that would otherwise hard counter Entei, like Arcanine and Chandelure, Honestly, there is no Pokemon in UU that can reliably switch in on an Entei and beat it without taking heavy damage, except for Suicune, among other bulky water (which don't appreciate the burn) and Snorlax.

Entei should move up more than anything due to ability to completely cripple an opposing team. It can switch in numerous opportunities, made more numerous by the new meta, and punch an Entei-sized hole into whatever is unlucky enough to switch in. It's weakness to Stealth Rock is annoying, but that can mitigated by proper hazard control, and even without hazard control it still has four opportunities to spam Sacred Fire.

I haven't even mentioned how good a late-game cleaner it is with Extreme Speed yet, or how its bulk is surprisingly good. I haven't even mentioned it's non-Choice Band sets. There's always its Assault Vest set, which lets it consistently beat both Sash and Life Orb Alakazam.

I strongly disagree with this nom. Between the rise of milotic as of late who takes advantage of the burn by getting a defense boost and just bulky waters being as good as they are in general Entei's job isn't easy. Sacred fire really isn't as spammable as people like to make it seem cause of it's very low PP.
Not to mention an entei locked into a fire move is easy to abuse with like you said mega aerodactyl or something like gyarados and being locked into stone edge isn't always ideal.

 

[Highways]

I think that we have allready discussed thay, and Entei has not all that skill to be S Rank... So, I will counter your arguments:

• Sableye can use the unusual Foul Play
• Metagross has Earthquake
• Gardevoir Hyper Voice is really very unviable LMAO
• Aerodactyl-Mega can switch into Extremme Speed
• Tentacruel, Seismitoad, Milotic, both Swampert and Mega Swampert and Diancie can switch-in without some problems, tbh, Diancie is the best switch thanks to Heal Bell

A Pokémon that 70% of the teams are ready to hold definetively can't be Broken...

 

[Nightingales]

is it too early to go delphox to c

I kinda don't agree with the above nom. Yes, it's powerful, yes it's scary, except it doesn't quite define the metagame like the other S-Rank threats are, and it's not unpredictable enough to see anything other than Band, bar the rare Liechi or AV.

/rushed because auction soon

 

[Kalawishis]

I think that we have allready discussed thay, and Entei has not all that skill to be S Rank... So, I will counter your arguments:

• Sableye can use the unusual Foul Play
• Metagross has Earthquake
• Gardevoir Hyper Voice is really very unviable LMAO
• Aerodactyl-Mega can switch into Extremme Speed
• Tentacruel, Seismitoad, Milotic, both Swampert and Mega Swampert and Diancie can switch-in without some problems, tbh, Diancie is the best switch thanks to Heal Bell

A Pokémon that 70% of the teams are ready to hold definetively can't be Broken...

Lol I completely confused Mega Gardevoir and regular Gardevoir. Fixed that.

But as you said, Sableye using Foul Play is unusual. Furthermore, it gets outsped by Entei so it won't even be able to get in a Foul Play. Metagross does have Earthquake, but it has to predict on the switch-in. Even if it does, Entei still has a chance to kill it or force it out. Assault Vest Metagross, which is usually the only type of Metagross that runs Earthquake, can't kill on the switch in from full, and may not even kill with Stealth Rocks active. I'm using an OU Metagross for the calc, but it's the same principle:

160+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 264-312 (71.1 - 84%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Aerodactyl-Mega certainly can switch in on Extreme Speed, but it must beware Entei's other moves. Stone Edge straight up kills and Sacred Fire has a ludicrously high chance to burn. As for the rest, they are all checks. However, none of of them except perhaps Marvel Scale Milotic appreciate the burn. Furthermore, Seismitoad and Diancie are very uncommon in UU.

In case anybody might think so, I am by no means advocating that Entei rise to the top or middle of S. In fact, I believe its perfect position is in UU right below Suicune.

 

[Pinkin Lark]

I've been thinking of this for a while, and I've decided. I don't believe this has been nominated before, but if it has, I apologize.

Entei from A to S

This meta has been highly beneficial to Entei, given that it does well against the new mons. It can switch into the Will-O-Wisp of Sableye and force it out. It switches in and beats Metagross, and can easily switch into the Hyper Voice of Gardevoir and beat that as well. No physical attacker can switch in on it due to fear of the burn. Even faster physical mons that do well against it, like Mega Aerodactyl, have to wait for the sack to die before they can switch in. Even special attackers like Mega Blastoise don't appreciate a burn. Furthermore, Fire-types cannot switch in with safety due to fear of Stone Edge, which can OHKO or do heavy damage to things that would otherwise hard counter Entei, like Arcanine and Chandelure, Honestly, there is no Pokemon in UU that can reliably switch in on an Entei and beat it without taking heavy damage, except for Suicune, among other bulky water (which don't appreciate the burn) and Snorlax.

Entei should move up more than anything due to ability to completely cripple an opposing team. It can switch in numerous opportunities, made more numerous by the new meta, and punch an Entei-sized hole into whatever is unlucky enough to switch in. It's weakness to Stealth Rock is annoying, but that can mitigated by proper hazard control, and even without hazard control it still has four opportunities to spam Sacred Fire.

I haven't even mentioned how good a late-game cleaner it is with Extreme Speed yet, or how its bulk is surprisingly good. I haven't even mentioned it's non-Choice Band sets. There's always its Assault Vest set, which lets it consistently beat both Sash and Life Orb Alakazam.

There is.... so many things wrong with this post, I almost don't know where to start.

You realize MGarde is OU right? Even then, Entei takes a cool 40% from a Moonblast from Specs(60%+ if Psyshock), and that doesn't even factor in Stealth Rock. You get one switchin and you're done. As for Metagross, of course a powerful fire type scares it out, provided Meta doesn't just EQ on the switch. Trying to argue mons like MAero need to revenge it isn't even an argument either; of course a non-bulky mon isn't going to switch in on a powerful attacker, even more with a 50% chance to burn. As for "nothing in UU reliably switching in", you realize this is pretty much the bulky water tier? Suicune, Swampert, Milotic, etc., all easily come in and sponge the hit. Only Swampert doesn't really like the burn, due to running EQ. Hell, Suicune cuts your already small PP count in half and laughs. The only bulky water that doesn't take Sacreds as well is Tenta depending on spread.

And what in this "new meta" that you think improved it? DD Gyara, Diancie, Zam, even Crawdaunt, can hurt Entei's effectiveness in a battle.

Entei is a powerful physical attacker. It breaks holes through teams to support its sweepers. It even has some decent priority. But its movepool is shallow as hell, running two STAB moves just to fill all 4 slots; and that priority comes at a cost of losing on a positive speed nature, leaving it outsped by some things it would normally beat. Also AV Entei is terrible, it already beats Zam provided its a) not running defensive investment, or b) Entei is still healthy(LO Psychic does 80% max). Besides, if Entei is your only Zam counter, you might need to rethink your team.

It's fine where it is(which is at the very top of A+ btw, not A).

 

[Highways]

I always run Shuca Berry Metagross, so mad ;_;
Diancie is actually the best answer to both Fire-, Dragon- and Flying-Type Pokémon, what is amazing, and ik that it got a raise recently, but it is deserving another raise... Anyway, we were talking 'bout Entei, right? Ok... Entei is a Pokémon that has considerable defenses, an amazing attack stat and a poor speed... "100 Base Speed isn't poor". Yes, in a metagame with a lot of Pokémon with a base speed of 90, what is enough to outspeed Entei, it is poor... Entei has a bad matchup against more defensive builds, it has one very predictable moveset, and if Suicune is on floor, it is f*cked by the pressure... Entei is definetively a very dangerous Pokémon, but it hasn't potential to be a S Rank.

 

[Kalawishis]

There is.... so many things wrong with this post, I almost don't know where to start.

You realize MGarde is OU right? Even then, Entei takes a cool 40% from a Moonblast from Specs(60%+ if Psyshock), and that doesn't even factor in Stealth Rock. You get one switchin and you're done. As for Metagross, of course a powerful fire type scares it out, provided Meta doesn't just EQ on the switch. Trying to argue mons like MAero need to revenge it isn't even an argument either; of course a non-bulky mon isn't going to switch in on a powerful attacker, even more with a 50% chance to burn. As for "nothing in UU reliably switching in", you realize this is pretty much the bulky water tier? Suicune, Swampert, Milotic, etc., all easily come in and sponge the hit. Only Swampert doesn't really like the burn, due to running EQ. Hell, Suicune cuts your already small PP count in half and laughs. The only bulky water that doesn't take Sacreds as well is Tenta depending on spread.

And what in this "new meta" that you think improved it? DD Gyara, Diancie, Zam, even Crawdaunt, can hurt Entei's effectiveness in a battle.

Entei is a powerful physical attacker. It breaks holes through teams to support its sweepers. It even has some decent priority. But its movepool is shallow as hell, running two STAB moves just to fill all 4 slots; and that priority comes at a cost of losing on a positive speed nature, leaving it outsped by some things it would normally beat. Also AV Entei is terrible, it already beats Zam provided its a) not running defensive investment, or b) Entei is still healthy(LO Psychic does 80% max). Besides, if Entei is your only Zam counter, you might need to rethink your team.

It's fine where it is(which is at the very top of A+ btw, not A).

You're not telling me anything I don't know with regards to bulky water. I myself specified, "Honestly, there is no Pokemon in UU that can reliably switch in on an Entei and beat it without taking heavy damage, except for Suicune, among other bulky water (which don't appreciate the burn) and Snorlax." I never said "nothing in UU reliably switching in" as you misquoted me.

Yeah I confused Mega Gardevoir and regular Gardevoir by accident (an error which I fixed). However, Choice Specs Gardevoir is by no means the most common Gardevoir set nor the most viable. Scarf and Calm Mind are more common and easily manageable for Entei. Milotic is not too common in this meta and Alomomola is fairly rare except on stall. Swampert is by no means a reliable switch in check to Entei. One on one, of course, defensive Swampert wins, but if your check stands to get severely damaged on the switch in then it's a flimsy check. Suicune and Gyara both are detrimental for Entei, of course, but Gyara is restricted to revenging. It cannot take advantage of Entei at all by trying to DD due to Sacred Fire (unless one is willing to cross their fingers), so it's effect on Entei is not as large as one might think. Diancie is far too uncommon to be on the mind of anybody using Entei (it's less common than Magneton in UU). Alakazam has the potential to hurt Entei, but Entei stands the same chance of hurting Alakazam, so the effect of Alakazam on Entei is neutral.

Furthermore, Entei's priority is better than decent. With the Choice Band set, it has more power than Life Orb Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet, and the ability to out-prioritize priority itself is the cherry on top. Normal isn't super effective against anything, but the raw power makes up for it. There are always Ghost types, but they're not common. The most common is Chandelure at moderate usage, and from there I can't find much. Chandelure can be dealt with before an Entei cleaning, and if Entei isn't locked yet it can't switch in reliably for fear of Stone Edge.

 

[Nightingales]

Fact of the matter is, Entei simply isn't S-Rank material. It has one set, and while that set may be very effective at spreading burns and being strong in general, that doesn't mean it should rise. It doesn't 'define the metagame', just burns a shitload of it.

Editing this in because I know people hate double-posting, but how do people actually feel about ranking Delphox, even at C-? The Scarf set it the only one I use these days but it's plenty dangerous with four attacks, though it works better as a cleaner rather then a wallbreaker, though it could cripple something with Trick I suppose.

It might just be me memeing, but while it's outclassed by the other psychics and fires to a degree, it has a niche nonetheless in the scarf set (and has offensive cm, sub cm, etc too.).

 

[bsu]

On delphox, if you're looking for a fast fire scarfer theres always infernape which is better in almost every aspect. if you're looking for a scarfed psychic, theres gardevoir who also packs stab moon blast, although garde is much slower. you can also slap a scarf on espeon if you really need the fast psychic. in terms of it being a combination of fastish scarfed fire and psychic, delphox does seem to be the only mon who can do that, but honestly not sure if that niche is worth a ranking. Sub CM might actually be a nice stall breaker set though with Fireblast/flamethrower and psyshock

 

[Highways]

I think that Chandelure outclasses Delphox, it has a better typing, it works better to break stall, the choice scarf set is more slower, but it is more dangerous too, and it has access to both Trick and Memento... imo, Delphox can be classed in C- Rank. Higher? No way.

 

[Nightingales]

It's like a slower mix of Chandelure and Azelf, in that it's not quite so strong or fast as either but it's a middle ground to both. Though I don't think Scarf Chandy can reliably beat a +1 Mence or ScarfDreigon at all.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Hydreigon is one thing, but Dazzling Gleam on a scarfed Delphox is only capable of 2HKOing a scarfed mence with full HP, who just proceeds to kill you in return. Also, getting locked into Dazzling Gleam is a horrible thing as its incredibly weak with no STAB. Scarf Chandy might not be able to take on Mence and Deigon, but it's capable of doing a lot more damage to other things that Delphox wish it could do.

In a whole, Delphox is entirely outclassed by every Fire and Psychic type in this tier. Why pick Delphox when I could pick Alakazam or Gardevoir as my offensive Psychic type? Or over Chandelure and Entei as offensive Fire types? Even if SubCM is a good enough niche to get it on the list, even something like Alakazam could pull that kind of set off better due to its better speed and special stats, and a better ability to take advantage of.

 

[Nightingales]

I ran that calc, and I done fucked up and made the mistake of Rocks + Naive mence so it looked like it killed. I'd run relevant things but I'm tired and still use it as a cleaner.

Also, I feel like the thing that got missed is that it's a decent middle ground. Which is meh when it comes to it, sure. You don't want to use an average pokemon, which is cool. Average is for in-game and NU. But as an offensive psychic and fire type, it can take advantage of both versatility and not outright losing to Bee running a scarf set (Garde), be able to reliably hit steel-types with STAB (Alakazam), go fast at all (Chandelure, same max scarf speed as Garde), and... do special damage? Idk how Entei compares outside fire typing, but that's a different argumen. I'm not saying it should get ranked because it's better at everything, I'm saying it should be ranked because it has niches over the fire and psychic types we have currently, bar something like Azelf (which doesn't like a scarf set.).

 

[heindall]

I ran that calc, and I done fucked up and made the mistake of Rocks + Naive mence so it looked like it killed. I'd run relevant things but I'm tired and still use it as a cleaner.

Also, I feel like the thing that got missed is that it's a decent middle ground. Which is meh when it comes to it, sure. You don't want to use an average pokemon, which is cool. Average is for in-game and NU. But as an offensive psychic and fire type, it can take advantage of both versatility and not outright losing to Bee running a scarf set (Garde), be able to reliably hit steel-types with STAB (Alakazam), go fast at all (Chandelure, same max scarf speed as Garde), and... do special damage? Idk how Entei compares outside fire typing, but that's a different argumen. I'm not saying it should get ranked because it's better at everything, I'm saying it should be ranked because it has niches over the fire and psychic types we have currently, bar something like Azelf (which doesn't like a scarf set.).

I agree with you...I used to use scarf Chandelure, then I switched to scarf Delphox for a while (and currently Im using Chandelure again).

It's not completely outclassed imo. Like you said, 104 Speed allows Delphox to actually outspeed things like +1 Salamence/Gyarados, Beedrill, Aero and Sceptile.

While it doesnt quite have the power to ohko everything, at least it puts them in range of priority users to clean up. And if you are luck to survive, Blaze actually becomes handy in the late game.

Edit: Forgot to mention, you can also play a bit more agressive with Trick using Delphox, since even without scarf it can still outspeed a good amount of stuff (Shaymin, Nidoking, non scarf hydregon, etc)