Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[KlefkiHolder]

So your argument is literally just that Clefable has Twave. You also argue about "limited movepool" of others, but I mean almost every A+ rank mon has a vast movepool. You also forget like half the shit the example mons have, Landorus-T having access to U-turn, Garchomp having access to Dragon Tail and a massive offensive movepool, and Heatran having Magma Storm, Torment, Taunt, Substitute, and a pretty significant offensive movepool. Being able to heal oneself while being support isn't uncommon either - Latios, Manaphy, Mega Sableye, and Talonflame can all do it.
As far as "BSing by it's checks", that's at least half the shit in A+. The argument that "other pokemon have weaknesses" is pretty dumb, and "uncommon offensive types" isn't true at all-they're mandatory offensive types if you want a ghost of a chance against Mega Altaria. Bisharp, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Magnezone, MMetagross, Scizor, Gengar, Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, and Talonflame can all beat it, so I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore the fact you cherry picked only 3 checks to artificially reinforce your argument. Many of these don't mind being thunder wave'd-and no, you're not getting Fire Blasted if the moveset is Twave/SR/Softboiled/Moonblast.

Personally, I think it is the degree of ho versatile Clefable is. In addition to being one of the hardest to wear down mons in the metagame due to its just good enough bulk in conjunction with Magic Guard and instant healing (though this doesn't hold as true to Unaware clefable due to o hazards and needing wish protect), it just has so many other absolutely valuable options at its disposal. It can run thunder wave to dissuade almost anything (especially spdef talon) aside from Excadrill from coming in, even allowing it to beat some other wise great counters such as venusaur with calm mind added in. It can run Knock Off to remove many mons' passive recovery, especially crippling for heatran, as well as a life orb or another item that would otherwise let clefable be broken. Even deeper in it gets moves such as Stealth Rock, Healing wish, heal bell, wish, etc, all of which are massively important support moves with either limited or restricted distribution .

It's able to wall such a massive portion of the meta, even on both sides of the spectrum simultaneously whilst having issues in being walled itself because of the options clefable has to lure in and cripple its counters, or even outright beat them.

It fits on every playstyle. It requires next to 0 support aside from a heatran or talonflame counter, while giving a ton back. And all of that is without delving into just straight up support and just how many different, yet equally effective spreads it can run.

It is the definition of an S rank Mon.

I'm on mobile so I probably missed a few things here or there, so feel free to chime in on this. (Also almost all of those things you said don't mind being parad hate it)

Edit: also clefable counters aren't hard counters really due to some tricks it can pull, whereas things like mega scizor or garchomp definitely have very exploitable weaknesses.

 

[teamsnickers]

Dread is honestly spot on with this... Since clefable got into s rank the meta has changed significantly. Even before hoopa u was here the meta was going through a healthy change from balanced to offense, with hoopa u now being in ou the change to a offensive meta was much more pronounced, and clefable suffers in this kind of meta... Right now momentum is SO KEY and clefable just stripes your team from it. If you look at the S and A+ rankings most of them are offensive mons and clefable has the niche as a great support mon, but just doesn't do much against offensive teams, its very passive and that will get you beat in a SECOND in this metagame. Against offense its best bet is to twave and while that can be annoying, as dread said before its not s rank material, clefable thrives in a balanced metagame like we had before but in the current offensive metagame we're in right now (most offense since deosharp....) clefable is not on the s rank plateau and right now its not as meta defining as say mega altaria or mega charizard x(hell even maybe keldeo).... Its still a GREAT mon but at the moment its more on the a plus level than s rank. And to klefkiholder while clefable can be a nice cleric for offense it doesn't really fit on HO TEAMS at all because it saps momentum and pressure from your team, something offense needs to succeed

 

[serperioriscool]

This is my first time nominating something so I'm sorry if I did something wrong
I would like to nominate

for A
You might be wondering what changed to get aerodactyl up from A- to A
Due to Hoopa-Unbound, Stall has not been too viable due to it single-handedly OHKOing/2HKOing all the Defensive Pokemon that are commonly seen on that Playstyle
Because of this most Bulky Teams have declined in usage and Hyper Offense has become the dominating Playstyle
As you know, due to Aerodactyl's blazing speed and decent Attack, it gives Offense players a huge headache
Since Hoopa-Unbound dismantles Bulkier teams and Aerodactyl destroys Offensive teams, It greatly benefits from Hoopa being allowed in OU
Why Mega Aerodactyl? Why not other Mons like Mega Lopunny or Mega Alakazam?
Mostly because of one reason, it resists BirdSpam
Talonflame is very troublesome to HO teams because of it's priority Brave Bird, but Mega Aerodactyl is one of the best counters to Talonflame allowing it to help it's team
MAero also gets many different moves that can help it such as Toxic, Roost, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Hone Claws, Fire Fang and Aqua Tail
It also checks many common pokemon such as:
Hoopa-Unbound
Both Zard forms
Talonflame
Serperior
Weavile (if it's at full HP)
Kyurem-B
Mega Gallade
Mega Medicham
Etc
Because of these reasons, I believe that Mega Aerodactyl should move up
Again, I am sorry if I did something wrong

 

[Of Moose & Men]

So after talking a little with Dread about his (at the time Blasphemous) nomination. I've gotta admit, I'm starting to lean towards A+ as well. Now, we all know Clefable isn't S for one set and one set only, so let's nip that in the bud now. The reason it is currently S is a combination of things, its amazing support roles, as well as its diversity and ability to check and counter many high tier threats. Now let us ask ourselves, is that on par with Charizard X and Mega Altaria? The two aforementioned Pokemon can essentially Steamroll through teams with little to no effort and with about that much support, making them absolutely massive problems for Balance, Stall and Offensive teams alike. Does Clefable do that? I'll admit, it's by far one of the most annoying Pokemon in the tier, but simply being annoying isn't quite enough in my eyes to warrant an S ranking. Now, this, much like every nomination to ever have anything to do with S, may just be my view of what an S rank Pokemon should be, but I really am beginning to see Clefable as less S worthy the more I look at this. Now, it's easy to say, "it has superb recovery" and to an extent I'd agree with you there. The problem with that recovery is that it is very much dependent on what set you happen to be running as well as the team mates it has. If it is unaware clefable, it is restricted to Wish which in turn requires in many cases protect, really hurting it for it's other moveslot considering one HAS to be Moonblast. Or you're running Moonlight which means you can't abuse one of the best balance Pokemon in the tier right now, Hippowdon, and if you do, you can't run sand stream which could be helping your team mates out in some form or fashion. Now, what if you're running Magic Guard? Well, you're free to use which ever recovery you prefer, which is likely to be Soft-Boiled, however, that means you now need something else for set up sweepers. Don't get me wrong, Clefable is an amazing Pokemon, by far one of the best supportive Pokemon in the tier, but it is literally incapable of doing everything at once. If it's wishtect, it can't have heal bell AND TWave AND CM. If it's Moonlight not only is it restricted to 8 PP, which is absolute trash for recovery, but it also sets a restriction on your team building as well in many cases.

If it remains S, I suppose it would be because it is the premier Support mon right now. But it doesn't have the ability to bend the meta over like Mega Altaria and Mega Charizard X do. It's also not quite as centralizing as many make it out to be. It's annoying, don't get me wrong, but that isn't enough to make it S.

 

[bludz]

I mean Clefable is pretty much the best mon in OU so I don't really see why it wouldn't be S rank. Other mons have versatility as well (Garchomp's was being totally undersold since its offensive sets are actually great) but Clefable is much more difficult to wear down and take out in general. Also not sure why Clefable can't take on Altaria's special set, Dread o.o

252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's the premier mixed wall in OU. It is absolutely more splashable than just about any pokemon on balance bar potentially Hippowdon which is exploited a lot more easily due to its predictability.

I'd argue it bends over the meta just fine compared to those two mons, Moose. I mean when you consider that its typical switch-ins all hate Thunder Wave or Flamethrower and that it's a defensive pokemon that's hard to take out and can set up and sweep even prepared teams (hell Mega Venu can't stop it at +1), I fail to see how it's not as centralizing a figure in this metagame as the 2 most dominant mega evolutions. If it weren't for Clefable, Balance and Stall would be all but dead.

 

[AM]

I dont think altaria is more defining than clefable btw from a balance perspective so this whole argument seems like a waste of time when s to a+ is the most biggest subjective line ever in the rankings. But meh itll go on for 3 pages anyways before ranking team ends up changing something else not even related later.

 

[KztxL7]

So after talking a little with Dread about his (at the time Blasphemous) nomination. I've gotta admit, I'm starting to lean towards A+ as well. Now, we all know Clefable isn't S for one set and one set only, so let's nip that in the bud now. The reason it is currently S is a combination of things, its amazing support roles, as well as its diversity and ability to check and counter many high tier threats. Now let us ask ourselves, is that on par with Charizard X and Mega Altaria? The two aforementioned Pokemon can essentially Steamroll through teams with little to no effort and with about that much support, making them absolutely massive problems for Balance, Stall and Offensive teams alike. Does Clefable do that? I'll admit, it's by far one of the most annoying Pokemon in the tier, but simply being annoying isn't quite enough in my eyes to warrant an S ranking. Now, this, much like every nomination to ever have anything to do with S, may just be my view of what an S rank Pokemon should be, but I really am beginning to see Clefable as less S worthy the more I look at this. Now, it's easy to say, "it has superb recovery" and to an extent I'd agree with you there. The problem with that recovery is that it is very much dependent on what set you happen to be running as well as the team mates it has. If it is unaware clefable, it is restricted to Wish which in turn requires in many cases protect, really hurting it for it's other moveslot considering one HAS to be Moonblast. Or you're running Moonlight which means you can't abuse one of the best balance Pokemon in the tier right now, Hippowdon, and if you do, you can't run sand stream which could be helping your team mates out in some form or fashion. Now, what if you're running Magic Guard? Well, you're free to use which ever recovery you prefer, which is likely to be Soft-Boiled, however, that means you now need something else for set up sweepers. Don't get me wrong, Clefable is an amazing Pokemon, by far one of the best supportive Pokemon in the tier, but it is literally incapable of doing everything at once. If it's wishtect, it can't have heal bell AND TWave AND CM. If it's Moonlight not only is it restricted to 8 PP, which is absolute trash for recovery, but it also sets a restriction on your team building as well in many cases.

If it remains S, I suppose it would be because it is the premier Support mon right now. But it doesn't have the ability to bend the meta over like Mega Altaria and Mega Charizard X do. It's also not quite as centralizing as many make it out to be. It's annoying, don't get me wrong, but that isn't enough to make it S.

A pokemon doesn't need to steamroll through a team with little to no effort to be S rank. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I swear Deoxys-D in XY was S-Rank before being banned.

Clefable, IMO, is reminiscent of Greninja, in that all you needed to do was choose 4 moves that filled some blind spots the other Pokemon on the team could not cover (as well). Only difference is that Clefable is significantly more support orientated than Greninja and that it's mediocre stats keep it from being absurdly broken.

Its splashable for many teams only not fitting into the more fast paced/offensive teams.

 

[teamsnickers]

A pokemon doesn't need to steamroll through a team with little to no effort to be S rank. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I swear Deoxys-D in XY was S-Rank before being banned.

Clefable, IMO, is reminiscent of Greninja, in that all you needed to do was choose 4 moves that filled some blind spots the other Pokemon on the team could not cover (as well). Only difference is that Clefable is significantly more support orientated than Greninja and that it's mediocre stats keep it from being absurdly broken.

Its splashable for many teams only not fitting into the more fast paced/offensive teams.

right but this metagame right now in centralized around fast paced offensive teams..... the metagame right now is the most offensive since deosharp and while clefables upside from when it got to s rank hasn't changed, BUT the metagame around it has changed significantly and the rankings should accurately show the viability of every pokemon in the CURRENT metagame. In a metagame based around having momentum, than clefable will not perform up to its capabilities as it takes away momentum from your team whenever it gets switched in...

 

[Of Moose & Men]

A pokemon doesn't need to steamroll through a team with little to no effort to be S rank. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I swear Deoxys-D in XY was S-Rank before being banned.

Clefable, IMO, is reminiscent of Greninja, in that all you needed to do was choose 4 moves that filled some blind spots the other Pokemon on the team could not cover (as well). Only difference is that Clefable is significantly more support orientated than Greninja and that it's mediocre stats keep it from being absurdly broken.

Its splashable for many teams only not fitting into the more fast paced/offensive teams.

I mean, if this is the reasoning behind it, then A lot of things should be on par if they patch holes that the team left uncovered. Now, I'm assuming you've never read my previous posts about these things and that's fine, I just feel S rank Pokemon should be reserved for things like Landorus I, Ninja, ZardX, mAlt, Mega Mence, things that are the pinnacle of the OU tier, things that are borderline broken. They are what make the OU tier. However, as I've said previously, "perhaps it's just my view of what an S 'mon should be". Call it an easy way out, but it's the truth.

I'd argue mAlt is at least a little more meta defining than Clefable, but that's not what I'm here to express.

Perhaps it's just us that see a VERY clear difference between Clefable, this fat supportive piece of shit, and the other two set up and sweep Mega Pokemon currently in S. Mega Altaria can set up, and sweep very easily, in many cases sealing the game, same with Charizard X. Clefable has a difficult time following suit for a couple reasons that I doubt I need to reiterate. Again, I can't disagree that it does have some very noteworthy positives that can make S rank justifiable, it's just it's not quite on the same page as the other two S ranks. Also, I'd argue Clef doesn't quite have the freedoms Greninja had, in fact, it's absolutely no where near what Greninja had. At minimum, two of Clefable's moveslots are reserved for recovery and Moonblast, not saying that's a bad thing, but comparing it to greninja and its ability to carry literally whatever move it wanted to is FAR different.

Also, you will have a hard time finding "fast paced/offensive teams" with Clefable on it considering it slows momentum quite a bit comparatively. (Disregard this, I misread)
I didn't quite say I disagree with S completely, there are a few things I still have had on my mind, but it's more so my not so subtle hatred for Clefable as a whole. With the way everything has been going, especially with the inclusion of Hoopa U, Clefable just doesn't quite shine in my eyes like it used to. It's still a pain in the ass though don't get me wrong. I'm admittedly torn, but leaning more towards A+.

 

[micahclay]

I don't think it's fair to say that Clefable should go down a rank on the basis of not being able to tear apart teams. If that were the case, we should not have pokemon like Ferrothorn or Skarmory as high as they are ranked. I think that it would be unwise to judge a primarily support mon on that basis.

With that being said, I don't think Clefable is strong enough as a support pokemon to warrant an S rank. Is it an incredibly versatile pokemon that is incredible at doing a ton of things? Yes. My problem is not whether it's necessarily "less viable" than Mega Alt or Mega Char X (although I think they are better), my problem is moreso that I believe it does not deserve to be placed higher than many of the A+ ranked pokemon. It is an excellent mixed wall, but it still loses much more easily to even some of the threats it is supposed to wall for it to be S ranked. As an example:
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

It can reliably wall Mega Bunny, but it cannot switch in, nor can it reliably beat it with any prior damage (this is not my main point - just an example.) It also suffers heavily from 4MSS. Without thunder wave, setup sweepers destroy it. If it has thunder wave, it is setup bait for mons like Mega Scizor or free hazards for Heatran, Skarm, or Ferro. It can run unaware to alleviate the issue with setup sweepers, but then it is settling for a less viable ability overall.

Is Clefable incredible? Yes, but I would argue it does not do its job better than pokes like Talonflame, Tornadus-T, Mega Sableye, etc. do theirs in order for it to warrant being a rank higher than them.

 

[Alfalfa]

Dread is honestly spot on with this... Since clefable got into s rank the meta has changed significantly. Even before hoopa u was here the meta was going through a healthy change from balanced to offense, with hoopa u now being in ou the change to a offensive meta was much more pronounced, and clefable suffers in this kind of meta... Right now momentum is SO KEY and clefable just stripes your team from it. If you look at the S and A+ rankings most of them are offensive mons and clefable has the niche as a great support mon, but just doesn't do much against offensive teams, its very passive and that will get you beat in a SECOND in this metagame. Against offense its best bet is to twave and while that can be annoying, as dread said before its not s rank material, clefable thrives in a balanced metagame like we had before but in the current offensive metagame we're in right now (most offense since deosharp....) clefable is not on the s rank plateau and right now its not as meta defining as say mega altaria or mega charizard x(hell even maybe keldeo).... Its still a GREAT mon but at the moment its more on the a plus level than s rank. And to klefkiholder while clefable can be a nice cleric for offense it doesn't really fit on HO TEAMS at all because it saps momentum and pressure from your team, something offense needs to succeed

The last time I checked, some HO teams utilized Clefable as a Stealth Rock lead. That might be too far back, maybe as far back as the XY meta. Clefable really isn't as big of a momentum killer as you say, as it has a lot of tools to use against offense, such as Thunder Wave and Knock Off. I left some stuff unsaid, I will come back later to fully explain.

 

[Clone]

Clefable is not a stealth rock lead for hyper offense.

 

[procrastinat]

1. You're mostly basing your statement on mons with more offensive presence and less support options then clef. That's something you shouldn't.
2. Clef is unpredictable, has a wide movepool, splashable in every concept of the word (ok it doesn't have splash but who cares). that's what many pokemon in the A+ mons can only dream of. It even has SR and you literally state "IF they had SR" but that's not the case.
3. Clef has a sweeping set. Yes it's not the best but it's used as a wincon. Something you're probably gonna use late game when all it's checks and counters are gone. And magic guard even prevents passive damage from hurting it and makes the job even easier to pull of.

You might want to check your facts before posting anything, because Clefable IS splashable in EVERY sense of the word.

 

[Reisuke]

You might want to check your facts before posting anything, because Clefable IS splashable in EVERY sense of the word.

Ummm i did state that actually (that splash thing was a stupid joke). Please see bolded stuff in my own quote (and concept is just my crappy english)

1. You're mostly basing your statement on mons with more offensive presence and less support options then clef. That's something you shouldn't.
2. Clef is unpredictable, has a wide movepool, splashable in every concept of the word (ok it doesn't have splash but who cares). that's what many pokemon in the A+ mons can only dream of. It even has SR and you literally state "IF they had SR" but that's not the case.
3. Clef has a sweeping set. Yes it's not the best but it's used as a wincon. Something you're probably gonna use late game when all it's checks and counters are gone. And magic guard even prevents passive damage from hurting it and makes the job even easier to pull of.

 

[procrastinat]

Ummm i did state that actually (that splash thing was a stupid joke). Please see bolded stuff in my own quote

I was mostly referring to the part in parenthesis.

1. You're mostly basing your statement on mons with more offensive presence and less support options then clef. That's something you shouldn't.
2. Clef is unpredictable, has a wide movepool, splashable in every concept of the word (ok it doesn't have splash but who cares). that's what many pokemon in the A+ mons can only dream of. It even has SR and you literally state "IF they had SR" but that's not the case.
3. Clef has a sweeping set. Yes it's not the best but it's used as a wincon. Something you're probably gonna use late game when all it's checks and counters are gone. And magic guard even prevents passive damage from hurting it and makes the job even easier to pull of.

I can't blame you for not getting the joke though.

P.S. It does learn splash.

 

[thesecondbest]

Clefable is not as good as people make it out to be. It's splashable, but so is Chomp. So is Torn. So is Tran. All of those three can fit on any playstyle, have great movepools, go mixed (stone edge tran smacks talonflame), and whittle teams with knock off, recoil, or magma storm/lava plume.
It's not that bulky. Only phys def beats LO latios, only spdef beats keldeo. Mandibuzz has insane mixed bulk, utility in defog, taunt, knock off, or foul play, and nasty plot or whirlwind if you want more reasons. Skarmory has insane physical bulk, utility in defog, spikes, sr, taunt, sturdy + custap, and sd or whirlwind if you want more reasons. Mew is better than clefable. It has good mixed bulk, better than clef, Willowisp, sd, nasty plot, calm mind, bulk up, baton pass, and it can go offensive. That is utility. That is splashability. The two former example are bulky monsters, not clef. Mew fulfills what you guys are saying better than clef does. Does it belong higher than A-? 100%. Is it S worthy? No. Clef isn't either. Just because it has Twave doesn't mean it belongs in S. It can't even beat some manaphy sets (the unaware sets lack reliable recovery so rain dance sets beat it), Zard X, arguably the best mon in the tier, bodies it (although you can gt off a twave if that's how you function). I don't see what makes it better than things like Chomp that have to sit back in A+, or even Mew, which is down in A-.

 

[ChinChinLives]

Clefable is not as good as people make it out to be. It's splashable, but so is Chomp. So is Torn. So is Tran. All of those three can fit on any playstyle, have great movepools, go mixed (stone edge tran smacks talonflame), and whittle teams with knock off, recoil, or magma storm/lava plume.
It's not that bulky. Only phys def beats LO latios, only spdef beats keldeo. Mandibuzz has insane mixed bulk, utility in defog, taunt, knock off, or foul play, and nasty plot or whirlwind if you want more reasons. Skarmory has insane physical bulk, utility in defog, spikes, sr, taunt, sturdy + custap, and sd or whirlwind if you want more reasons. Mew is better than clefable. It has good mixed bulk, better than clef, Willowisp, sd, nasty plot, calm mind, bulk up, baton pass, and it can go offensive. That is utility. That is splashability. The two former example are bulky monsters, not clef. Mew fulfills what you guys are saying better than clef does. Does it belong higher than A-? 100%. Is it S worthy? No. Clef isn't either. Just because it has Twave doesn't mean it belongs in S. It can't even beat some manaphy sets (the unaware sets lack reliable recovery so rain dance sets beat it), Zard X, arguably the best mon in the tier, bodies it (although you can gt off a twave if that's how you function). I don't see what makes it better than things like Chomp that have to sit back in A+, or even Mew, which is down in A-.

Clefable is far better than mew, mew has a trash typing. So does mandi. Mew has the advantages of all of them good typing like garchomp and heatran and recovery like mew and mandi. But the thing is they get worn down on by sr. Clef doesn't. They all are setup fodder for something. Except clef. Clef is the metagame, she shapes it. Why did keldeo go to a+ With the mostly unprepared for subcm set? Unaware clef. Terakkion down at b+? Clef. Weavile permanently staying in A for a while? Clef. Clef is easily the most splash able mon in the meta. Need sr? Need a good lure? Need a stop to setup sweepers? Blanket check to pretty much everything? Clef fills all those roles. Malt should drop first.

 

[Alfalfa]

Clefable is far better than mew, mew has a trash typing. So does mandi. Mew has the advantages of all of them good typing like garchomp and heatran and recovery like mew and mandi. But the thing is they get worn down on by sr. Clef doesn't. They all are setup fodder for something. Except clef. Clef is the metagame, she shapes it. Why did keldeo go to a+ With the mostly unprepared for subcm set? Unaware clef. Terakkion down at b+? Clef. Weavile permanently staying in A for a while? Clef. Clef is easily the most splash able mon in the meta. Need sr? Need a good lure? Need a stop to setup sweepers? Blanket check to pretty much everything? Clef fills all those roles. Malt should drop first.

Terrakion did not drop down to B+ because of Clefable, it dropped to B+ because the presence of Mega Sableye neutered the only set keeping it at A-, its SR lead set.

EDIT: Sorry, Terrakion was A Rank before Mega Sableye was introduced

 

[Dread Arceus]

I mean Clefable is pretty much the best mon in OU

as a moderator in the OU room, a place where shit like tflame, rotom-w, and heatran get suggested as suspects, have you ever seen a single person ask for a clefable ban? I know i haven't, even though I've heard cries for the aforementioned, char x, malt, mlop, msab, and manaphy, all of which happen almost daily. Clefable being the best mon in ou is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. As for the rest of your argument, I can't do calcs from phone, but does that spread not lose to mlop-something you kinda need to counter with clefable a good amount of the time? As far as clefable being a 5 slot mon with 0 counters, refer to my earlier post. It simply isn't anywhere near as dangerous as the other two S ranks. Finally, Clefable being some sort of godsend to balance isn't true at all as balance has plenty of options, and while it's often useful on stall, it's not exactly mandatory.

I'll get to other arguments when I'm not on phone, I just had to jump on the one with the most absurd opener

 

[henry]

chiming in to say that there is literally no reason for clefable to move down and arguing on its behalf is a waste of time because the plebe's ideas mean nothing to us anyway


#viabilitygate

 

[Dread Arceus]

Perhaps you should listen to the Plebes, apparently they're actually capable of using arguments instead of "lol nah we don't feel like moving it down"

 

[Karxrida]

as a moderator in the OU room, a place where shit like tflame, rotom-w, and heatran get suggested as suspects, have you ever seen a single person ask for a clefable ban? I know i haven't, even though I've heard cries for the aforementioned, char x, malt, mlop, msab, and manaphy, all of which happen almost daily. Clefable being the best mon in ou is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. As for the rest of your argument, I can't do calcs from phone, but does that spread not lose to mlop-something you kinda need to counter with clefable a good amount of the time? As far as clefable being a 5 slot mon with 0 counters, refer to my earlier post. It simply isn't anywhere near as dangerous as the other two S ranks. Finally, Clefable being some sort of godsend to balance isn't true at all as balance has plenty of options, and while it's often useful on stall, it's not exactly mandatory.

I'll get to other arguments when I'm not on phone, I just had to jump on the one with the most absurd opener

PS is full of morons who don't know what they're talking about. I wouldn't use those users as any sort of measure of what's broken or not.

 

[henry]

Perhaps you should listen to the Plebes, apparently they're actually capable of using arguments instead of "lol nah we don't feel like moving it down"

explain to me why at this exact time as opposed to three days ago clefable is one subrank worse without telling me that it has counters and that its base stats aren't very high

also talking in the ou room to crowd source what terrible ideas are is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy when you yourself spend just as much time there as people with no idea what they're doing spend

 

[thesecondbest]

explain to me why at this exact time as opposed to three days ago clefable is one subrank worse without telling me that it has counters and that its base stats aren't very high

also talking in the ou room to crowd source what terrible ideas are is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy when you yourself spent just as much time there

I, for one, was always against it being in S, and since Chomp is gaining more and more usage, it really seems that it is the new king of balance as opposed to what others think. But he can answer that question himself.

 

[Karxrida]

Chomp doesn't threaten shit with its Tank set while Clefable is actually dangerous with the ability to sweep slower teams. Also it can keep itself alive. Usage and splash-ability are good indicators of viability but not the end-all-be-all, otherwise Rotom-W and Lando-T would be S because they're super fucking splashable.