Just pointing out that nomination in the OU thread jumped the gun. A lot. Also, because you are relatively new here, viability between tiers doesn't always line up nicely, if that's what you are suggesting. For example, Rhyperior is B+ in the OU thread for several months because it handles certain OU threats like Talonflame well. However, it was lower in the similar UU thread because it was less effective in that meta.
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Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Ares
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I've played on showdown for some time now (10 months or so) so id like to think I'm at least a little knowledgable (just joined smogon to try to contribute more). But anyways do you not think it's at least an A in nu?
I think it is A-worthy in NU (obviously), just the way I read your post I thought you were using an OU nomination when talking about something in the NU fourm. Just making it clear that metagames are really different from each other, and something you see in one doesn't translate to another.
I'd like to nominate Cryogonal for A- Rank, as I believe it to be the best offensive Rapid Spinner in the tier.
It sits at a comfortable base 105 Speed, and Freeze-Dry screws over many of the tier's bulky Waters, particularly Seismitoad, Ludicolo, and Mantine. In addition, its base 135 Special Defense allows it to take their attacks with relative ease, while it uses Freeze-Dry, or uses Recover as they switch out.
It depends on the type of team you're using, but in my experience, it's been a better spinner than Kabutops (likely because I'm already using Feraligatr), and its two major flaws (Ice typing and poor Defense, problems that pretty much every offensive Ice-type has) haven't been much of an issue.
It sits at a comfortable base 105 Speed, and Freeze-Dry screws over many of the tier's bulky Waters, particularly Seismitoad, Ludicolo, and Mantine. In addition, its base 135 Special Defense allows it to take their attacks with relative ease, while it uses Freeze-Dry, or uses Recover as they switch out.
It depends on the type of team you're using, but in my experience, it's been a better spinner than Kabutops (likely because I'm already using Feraligatr), and its two major flaws (Ice typing and poor Defense, problems that pretty much every offensive Ice-type has) haven't been much of an issue.
Zebstrika definitely needs to rise is definitely more viable that it was before. Its base 116 speed allows it to outspeed Serperior every time with a timid nature and it can retaliate with overheat.
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 278-330 (95.5 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
It is honestly one of the best stops to Serperior there is because it also gets sap sipper meaning not only can it switch into leaf storm without taking any damage but can easily retaliate with a ko. It can also run lightningrod to give it SpA boosts instead and allows it to team up well with defoggers like Pellipper, Mantine, and Prinplup. It isn't phenomenal but its viability is much higher than it was beforeand it needs to move up.
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 278-330 (95.5 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
It is honestly one of the best stops to Serperior there is because it also gets sap sipper meaning not only can it switch into leaf storm without taking any damage but can easily retaliate with a ko. It can also run lightningrod to give it SpA boosts instead and allows it to team up well with defoggers like Pellipper, Mantine, and Prinplup. It isn't phenomenal but its viability is much higher than it was before
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Everything you mentioned is correct but Zeb should also get special mention because it avoids any Glare shenanigans with Serp since Electrics can't get paralyzed, so all in all, it makes a pretty decent switch-in it seems.
Since the main discussion surrounding Serperior right now seems to be whether we should quickban or suspect it, I don't think that Pokemon such as Zebstrika that are used solely as Serperior stops should rise until we reach a more conclusive decision about it, especially because Zebstrika really isn't that great otherwise.
I've been wanting to mention something for awhile now but have been holding back figuring it's a stupid idea... but.
What do you guys think servine's viability would be in NU with contrary? I mean yeah.. serperior is the supreme overlord in comparison but we know that's not sticking around forever. 83 base speed isn't god awful in NU and 60 base SpA isn't too horrible either.. only 15 less than serperior's and serperior is borderline broken af with it in NU. Give it some sticky web support and you should be good. An offensive eviolite screens user seems interesting. (Gets synthesis too)
It's just a thought of mine.. wanted to see some thoughts on the matter.
What do you guys think servine's viability would be in NU with contrary? I mean yeah.. serperior is the supreme overlord in comparison but we know that's not sticking around forever. 83 base speed isn't god awful in NU and 60 base SpA isn't too horrible either.. only 15 less than serperior's and serperior is borderline broken af with it in NU. Give it some sticky web support and you should be good. An offensive eviolite screens user seems interesting. (Gets synthesis too)
It's just a thought of mine.. wanted to see some thoughts on the matter.
252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO
+
+2 252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 247-292 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Archeops: 184-217 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Servine: 162-192 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^Defeatist
+
+2 252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Camerupt: 247-292 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Servine Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Archeops: 184-217 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Servine: 162-192 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
^Defeatist
Thats something to bring up after Serperior leaves, but I don't forsee it to be much more than a small niche. Serperiors main draw is its speed in combination with contrary Leaf Storm, the fact that Serperior can outpace all base 100-105s is what truly puts it over the edge.
Liepard B- -> A-/A
Right now Liepard is one of the best if not the best pivot in the tier but also is the best prankster user by far. Liepard has so many viable and good sets it's insane it will always be useful on any team being a pivot for offensive teams or being a encore/taunt user vs stall teams almost all the main sets can be proven useful. Not only these facts but Liepard has a nice Move pool hitting all of its weaknesses. This mons only threat can be handle with a nice pairing of a teammate in magnet rise probopass vs Steelix. Overall i'd say it needs very little help on what it does it sets up it's teammates to sweep rather it be with encore and taunt or it being a pivot.
Right now Liepard is one of the best if not the best pivot in the tier but also is the best prankster user by far. Liepard has so many viable and good sets it's insane it will always be useful on any team being a pivot for offensive teams or being a encore/taunt user vs stall teams almost all the main sets can be proven useful. Not only these facts but Liepard has a nice Move pool hitting all of its weaknesses. This mons only threat can be handle with a nice pairing of a teammate in magnet rise probopass vs Steelix. Overall i'd say it needs very little help on what it does it sets up it's teammates to sweep rather it be with encore and taunt or it being a pivot.
What do you guys think about Klinklang?
I'm nominating some type of raise, maybe B+ to A-.
I've used Klinklang since the start of my NU journey and it's been so strong.
Gear Grind + Shift Gear + Return + Wild Charge + Life orb OHKO's most of the Top ranking NU pokemon and it outspeeds everything with 2x speed.
It has a few counters, like Mega Steelix and Rotom but it can be used very nicely as a late game sweeper.
Thoughts?
I'm nominating some type of raise, maybe B+ to A-.
I've used Klinklang since the start of my NU journey and it's been so strong.
Gear Grind + Shift Gear + Return + Wild Charge + Life orb OHKO's most of the Top ranking NU pokemon and it outspeeds everything with 2x speed.
It has a few counters, like Mega Steelix and Rotom but it can be used very nicely as a late game sweeper.
Thoughts?
It gets HARD walled by mega steelix, with that thing being the most used Mon in NU rn I think klinklamg should remain the same, its got a nice niche but its almost expendable if the opposing team has a mega steelix which isn't not likely at this stage in the meta.
(Just a note, probably gonna be 2-3 posts because I have a TON of things to say)
Might as well start with the easiest ones, remnants of XY, "chaos", and m-glalie metas.
Piloswine to C+
Seriously, how is this here still, and why is it in the same rank as great pokemon such as Huntail, Cryogonal, and Exeggutor lol. Only reason this was much good was M-Glalie, now it's just outclassed as a rock setter by M-lix, Seis, and Rhydon, and has meh typing at best, with awful weaknesses to fighting, water, and grass but only an ice, poison, and electric resistance to compensate. There's really very little reason to use Piloswine. A boltbeam resisting rocksetter or ice shard are all I can see, neither of which are enough of a worthwhile niche to justify even B- rank.
Metang to D+ rank
Yes, Metang was decent because it switched into Dragalge. Now all it is is set-up fodder for Feraligatr, Huntail, Gorebyss, and Mega Steelix(even if you have like psych up you still lose to all of these mons so..), free switches to M-lix or near any water type in the tier, and an extremely mediocre steel type that has little to no niche in the current metagame.
Lampent to C-
Slurpuff is gone, and while it counters Typhlosion and Pyroar, there are many better fire spam checks, especially those that can actually switch into magmortar and m-camel instead of just losing to EQ and earth power respectively. There are just often better things at anything Lampent can do.
Carracosta to B
While wp Carracosta and bulky Carracosta are both cool, M-glalie is gone, making it less important, and there are a number of checks to anything Costa can do, and it also suffers competition for both of these roles with mons like Gatr, Seis, Huntail, Kabutops, and even Barbaracle.
Carbink and Lickilicky to C-
Mega Audino exists, outclassing both at almost anything these mons do that is viable. Need I say more?
Kangaskhan to A-
I'm honestly amazed that this hasn't dropped yet when it's gotten so much worse in ORAS thanks to Mega Steelix being on every team, in addition to it's previous flaws and counters still being around. It can get worn down even quicker now thanks to M-lix forcing switches and it already has recoil and hazards to cope with. It's also noticibly weak aside from double-edge and only has 90 base speed when it isn't using priority.
Rotom to A-
Another mon the rise of M-lix has nerfed, Rotom also gained another counter in Mega Camerupt in addition to still having many old checks and counters. It's still notably weak and isn't particularly bulky either, and defoggers rising in popularity hasn't helped it in the spinblocking department either.
Mantine to B
The best defogger in the tier right now. Not only does it check Mega Steelix and Mega Camerupt, it also checks fire spam and smashpass and has amazing special bulk. STAB Scald is a great tool too.
Prinplup to B-/C+
Another mon that ORAS's changes have helped, Prinplup checks both Mega Steelix and Camerupt as well as Typlosion, Feraligatr, and has scald and grass knot to hit many common leads. It's also one of the few defoggers not weak to rocks and the only one that can set it's own rocks.
Lumineon to unlisted
Outclassed practically completely by other defoggers, Lumineon's only major niche is u-turn, which Vibrava also has. Even with this it has much less to offer than Prinplup, Pelipper, and Mantine, and often ends up being little more than fodder. There's really no good reason to ever use a Lumineon.
Glaceon to unlisted
Even among it's fellow mediocre small nichemice types, Glaceon is outclassed by Regice, Aurorus, Articuno, and Lapras. These mons have better stats, coverage, typing, ability, movepool, and/or stabs than the lackluster Glaceon, which lacks even freeze dry, let alone any worthwhile coverage other than Hidden Power.
Masquerain to D
Sticky web is already pretty awful, but Masquerain is probably the worst setter, having only intimidate to really offer. While it may have some interesting moves, it's unable to utilize them due to awful typing and horrid bulk even after intimidate. In most games all you ever do is lower attack, set webs and die. At least Ariados can attack things and the other two have actually worthwhile support and offensive options..
Kricketune to C
Again, sticky web is awful, and despite Kricketune being the best setter, that's not exactlyman achievement as all of the setters are terrible. Kricketune also stacks up awfully against common leads such as Archeops, Crustle, Mega Steelix and Rhydon.
Raichu/Electivire to B-
Both of these once mediocre electric types are now decent thanks to being able to take on/wear down common answers to electrics such as M-lix, Ferroseed, Lanturn, Seismitoad, and M-camel with things like surf, eq, grass knot, flamethrower and focus blast.
Torkoal to D+
An awful spinner with no recovery, weakness to sr and common water and ground moves, and subpar sp. def leave torkoal as a very mediocre option. (to be continued)
Might as well start with the easiest ones, remnants of XY, "chaos", and m-glalie metas.
Piloswine to C+
Seriously, how is this here still, and why is it in the same rank as great pokemon such as Huntail, Cryogonal, and Exeggutor lol. Only reason this was much good was M-Glalie, now it's just outclassed as a rock setter by M-lix, Seis, and Rhydon, and has meh typing at best, with awful weaknesses to fighting, water, and grass but only an ice, poison, and electric resistance to compensate. There's really very little reason to use Piloswine. A boltbeam resisting rocksetter or ice shard are all I can see, neither of which are enough of a worthwhile niche to justify even B- rank.
Metang to D+ rank
Yes, Metang was decent because it switched into Dragalge. Now all it is is set-up fodder for Feraligatr, Huntail, Gorebyss, and Mega Steelix(even if you have like psych up you still lose to all of these mons so..), free switches to M-lix or near any water type in the tier, and an extremely mediocre steel type that has little to no niche in the current metagame.
Lampent to C-
Slurpuff is gone, and while it counters Typhlosion and Pyroar, there are many better fire spam checks, especially those that can actually switch into magmortar and m-camel instead of just losing to EQ and earth power respectively. There are just often better things at anything Lampent can do.
Carracosta to B
While wp Carracosta and bulky Carracosta are both cool, M-glalie is gone, making it less important, and there are a number of checks to anything Costa can do, and it also suffers competition for both of these roles with mons like Gatr, Seis, Huntail, Kabutops, and even Barbaracle.
Carbink and Lickilicky to C-
Mega Audino exists, outclassing both at almost anything these mons do that is viable. Need I say more?
Kangaskhan to A-
I'm honestly amazed that this hasn't dropped yet when it's gotten so much worse in ORAS thanks to Mega Steelix being on every team, in addition to it's previous flaws and counters still being around. It can get worn down even quicker now thanks to M-lix forcing switches and it already has recoil and hazards to cope with. It's also noticibly weak aside from double-edge and only has 90 base speed when it isn't using priority.
Rotom to A-
Another mon the rise of M-lix has nerfed, Rotom also gained another counter in Mega Camerupt in addition to still having many old checks and counters. It's still notably weak and isn't particularly bulky either, and defoggers rising in popularity hasn't helped it in the spinblocking department either.
Mantine to B
The best defogger in the tier right now. Not only does it check Mega Steelix and Mega Camerupt, it also checks fire spam and smashpass and has amazing special bulk. STAB Scald is a great tool too.
Prinplup to B-/C+
Another mon that ORAS's changes have helped, Prinplup checks both Mega Steelix and Camerupt as well as Typlosion, Feraligatr, and has scald and grass knot to hit many common leads. It's also one of the few defoggers not weak to rocks and the only one that can set it's own rocks.
Lumineon to unlisted
Outclassed practically completely by other defoggers, Lumineon's only major niche is u-turn, which Vibrava also has. Even with this it has much less to offer than Prinplup, Pelipper, and Mantine, and often ends up being little more than fodder. There's really no good reason to ever use a Lumineon.
Glaceon to unlisted
Even among it's fellow mediocre small nichemice types, Glaceon is outclassed by Regice, Aurorus, Articuno, and Lapras. These mons have better stats, coverage, typing, ability, movepool, and/or stabs than the lackluster Glaceon, which lacks even freeze dry, let alone any worthwhile coverage other than Hidden Power.
Masquerain to D
Sticky web is already pretty awful, but Masquerain is probably the worst setter, having only intimidate to really offer. While it may have some interesting moves, it's unable to utilize them due to awful typing and horrid bulk even after intimidate. In most games all you ever do is lower attack, set webs and die. At least Ariados can attack things and the other two have actually worthwhile support and offensive options..
Kricketune to C
Again, sticky web is awful, and despite Kricketune being the best setter, that's not exactlyman achievement as all of the setters are terrible. Kricketune also stacks up awfully against common leads such as Archeops, Crustle, Mega Steelix and Rhydon.
Raichu/Electivire to B-
Both of these once mediocre electric types are now decent thanks to being able to take on/wear down common answers to electrics such as M-lix, Ferroseed, Lanturn, Seismitoad, and M-camel with things like surf, eq, grass knot, flamethrower and focus blast.
Torkoal to D+
An awful spinner with no recovery, weakness to sr and common water and ground moves, and subpar sp. def leave torkoal as a very mediocre option. (to be continued)
While torkoal may be the 4th best spinner, that doesn't mean much when your competition is Armaldo and Avalugg lol. It at least has yawn utility and rocks, but it can't even do thatmuch to common spinblockers like Mismagius and Rotom that can easily wear it down along with that sr weakness whittling it's hp down on entry.
Volbeat to D
Seriously why is this C- when all it does is set weather and have prankster shenanigans which Liepard and even Meowstic-M outclass it at. All it has is unreliable tail glow passing and recovery, both of which it struggles to take advantage of thanks to being very frail.
Meowstic-M to C
Another ourclassed prankster user. Just use Liepard, or if you want cm psychic type use Uxie, Mushy, or Xatu. Heck, even if you just want something to t-wave or set screens use one of those. It's also just a nice free switch to things like m-lix and doesn't have u-turn(uxie/xatu), bp(mushy), or coverage(xatu w/ heat wavev) to hit it like those 3 do.
Stoutland/Hippopotas to C
Considering the only reason you should use Stoutland is sand(otherwise just use Kanga or Tauros...), it stands to reason that these should be in the same rank, and Sand got a decent buff in M-lix being a very good user of it so Hippo has gotten a bit better.
Torterra to B-
Torterra, in addition to the various tricks it already has, now walls m-lix, which is huge. It can still do tons of other things, like hit hard, utilize rock polish or dual dance, set rocks, resist edgequake, and antilead certain mons with bullet seed however, so it's not like it's a one trick pony(or should I say turtle).
Golem to C-
All but completely outclassdd by mons like Carracosta, Mega Steelix, and Rhydon, Golem's only real niches are WP suicide lead and sucker punch. There is very little reason to use it over any other rock lead, and it's only niches are small and most often unnecessary.
Probopass to B
The ability to trap Mega Steelix and beat it with Magnet Rise + Earth Power is incredibly huge, as M-Lix is a major problem for many pokemon and teams. It's a huge niche and allows the otherwise extremely mediocre Probopass to become a very worthwhile pokemon. Slow volt switches and beating ferroseed with hp fire and/or taunt is cool too I suppose.
Simipour to B-
Being able to both deal with Mega Steelix and Specs Typhlosion, forcing switches, having practically unresisted coverage, and being able to set-up with nasty plot set Simipour apart from it's water type brethren. 101 is a great speed tier, and stab hydro pump hurts. You can also play around with some difrerent things like focus blast for Ferroseed or substitute for forced switches.
Frogadier to C-
While on paper Frogadier seems good, having perfect 3 move coverage (aside from the based lord Marill), and U-turn or dark pulse for 4th slot, as well as 97 base speed frogadier fails to do well as it lacks enough of well, anything. It's not fast enough to outspeed the key 100 base speed, can't hit hard enough ever, and is incredibly frail. Even with protean, mons like Samurott and Simipour do it's job better.
Grumpig to C-
A mediocre psychic type and fire spam answer, Grumpig fails to be particularily impressive. Aside from thick fat and whirlwind, Musharna outclasses it and has recovery, cm, and baton pass. As a fire spam answer, while it does stop typhlosion and magmortar, a hyper voice from pyroar hurts and Gumpig is incapable of doing anything to M-camel, who promptly destroys Grumpig with earth power. It fails to handle much else that impressively, ending up set-up fodder for xatu, free switches to M-steelix unless it has and uses whirlwind or focus blast I suppose though I've yet to see anyone use an F-blast grumpig and it probably doesn't even have room to easily fit it.
Rapidash to D-
Rapidash cannot even really threaten the most common fire spam answers in Rhydon, Seismitoad, and Hariyama. Between that and getting incredibly easily worn down by hazards and recoil, Rapidash struggles to ever make itself very useful on a team.
Barbaracle to C+
Yes, it got SR and grass knot and now makes a decent lead since it has taunt. It's still rather underwhelming and I feel like it's much more worthwhile to forgo taunt and use Seismitoad or skip grass knot and use lead archeops, both of which have many of their own advantages. It's also still a mediocre shell smasher and outclassed by many pokemon, such as huntail, kabutops, carracosta, and gorebyss.
Bouffalant to B
Even with the broken snake gone, Bouffalant can still shine. It can take advantage of common Ferroseeds, Vileplumes, and Lilligants to poke holes through many teams. It still has a large attack stat and solis bulk, too. SD allows it to hit incredibly hard, and it can also run things like Choice Band effectively. Very, very little wants to eat hits from this thing, especially depending on what it could be running. It's solid coverage options include Megahorn, Earthquake, Superpower and Stone Edge.
Volbeat to D
Seriously why is this C- when all it does is set weather and have prankster shenanigans which Liepard and even Meowstic-M outclass it at. All it has is unreliable tail glow passing and recovery, both of which it struggles to take advantage of thanks to being very frail.
Meowstic-M to C
Another ourclassed prankster user. Just use Liepard, or if you want cm psychic type use Uxie, Mushy, or Xatu. Heck, even if you just want something to t-wave or set screens use one of those. It's also just a nice free switch to things like m-lix and doesn't have u-turn(uxie/xatu), bp(mushy), or coverage(xatu w/ heat wavev) to hit it like those 3 do.
Stoutland/Hippopotas to C
Considering the only reason you should use Stoutland is sand(otherwise just use Kanga or Tauros...), it stands to reason that these should be in the same rank, and Sand got a decent buff in M-lix being a very good user of it so Hippo has gotten a bit better.
Torterra to B-
Torterra, in addition to the various tricks it already has, now walls m-lix, which is huge. It can still do tons of other things, like hit hard, utilize rock polish or dual dance, set rocks, resist edgequake, and antilead certain mons with bullet seed however, so it's not like it's a one trick pony(or should I say turtle).
Golem to C-
All but completely outclassdd by mons like Carracosta, Mega Steelix, and Rhydon, Golem's only real niches are WP suicide lead and sucker punch. There is very little reason to use it over any other rock lead, and it's only niches are small and most often unnecessary.
Probopass to B
The ability to trap Mega Steelix and beat it with Magnet Rise + Earth Power is incredibly huge, as M-Lix is a major problem for many pokemon and teams. It's a huge niche and allows the otherwise extremely mediocre Probopass to become a very worthwhile pokemon. Slow volt switches and beating ferroseed with hp fire and/or taunt is cool too I suppose.
Simipour to B-
Being able to both deal with Mega Steelix and Specs Typhlosion, forcing switches, having practically unresisted coverage, and being able to set-up with nasty plot set Simipour apart from it's water type brethren. 101 is a great speed tier, and stab hydro pump hurts. You can also play around with some difrerent things like focus blast for Ferroseed or substitute for forced switches.
Frogadier to C-
While on paper Frogadier seems good, having perfect 3 move coverage (aside from the based lord Marill), and U-turn or dark pulse for 4th slot, as well as 97 base speed frogadier fails to do well as it lacks enough of well, anything. It's not fast enough to outspeed the key 100 base speed, can't hit hard enough ever, and is incredibly frail. Even with protean, mons like Samurott and Simipour do it's job better.
Grumpig to C-
A mediocre psychic type and fire spam answer, Grumpig fails to be particularily impressive. Aside from thick fat and whirlwind, Musharna outclasses it and has recovery, cm, and baton pass. As a fire spam answer, while it does stop typhlosion and magmortar, a hyper voice from pyroar hurts and Gumpig is incapable of doing anything to M-camel, who promptly destroys Grumpig with earth power. It fails to handle much else that impressively, ending up set-up fodder for xatu, free switches to M-steelix unless it has and uses whirlwind or focus blast I suppose though I've yet to see anyone use an F-blast grumpig and it probably doesn't even have room to easily fit it.
Rapidash to D-
Rapidash cannot even really threaten the most common fire spam answers in Rhydon, Seismitoad, and Hariyama. Between that and getting incredibly easily worn down by hazards and recoil, Rapidash struggles to ever make itself very useful on a team.
Barbaracle to C+
Yes, it got SR and grass knot and now makes a decent lead since it has taunt. It's still rather underwhelming and I feel like it's much more worthwhile to forgo taunt and use Seismitoad or skip grass knot and use lead archeops, both of which have many of their own advantages. It's also still a mediocre shell smasher and outclassed by many pokemon, such as huntail, kabutops, carracosta, and gorebyss.
Bouffalant to B
Even with the broken snake gone, Bouffalant can still shine. It can take advantage of common Ferroseeds, Vileplumes, and Lilligants to poke holes through many teams. It still has a large attack stat and solis bulk, too. SD allows it to hit incredibly hard, and it can also run things like Choice Band effectively. Very, very little wants to eat hits from this thing, especially depending on what it could be running. It's solid coverage options include Megahorn, Earthquake, Superpower and Stone Edge.
Mightyena to D-
Mightyena is pretty terrible tbh. Lack of knock off, pursuit, or any good stats leaves Mightyena struggling to do much other than offer free switches to most physical bulky mons in the tier. (Granbull, Rhydon and Mega Steelix say hi) Even having the perfect-in-NU coverage of Dark/Fairy doesn't stop Mightyena from being very ineffective. 99.9% of the time, another dark type is a better choice(heck, Krokorok probably uses Moxie just as well lol)
Malamar to A
Malamar is very effective right now. Having solid dark/fighting 2 move coverage, a plethora of decent sets, and a limited amount of answers. Malamar is surprisingly specially bulky when fully invested, living most hits. It's also able to quickly rack up boosts and become incredibly difficult to stop with physical attacks barring crits in just a couple turns. Beyond bug types, phazing, and signal beam, Malamar is also extremely difficult to stop once it gets started. Give it just one free turn and you may be in trouble. But that's just one set. You can also easily run things like scarf or chestorest, have different EV spreads, or even go special with infiltrator CM and Malamar's amazing special coverage.
Huntail to A-
It's just as good as gorebyss, trading coverage and power for priority and burn immunity. Can we please just put them in the same rank already?
Mightyena is pretty terrible tbh. Lack of knock off, pursuit, or any good stats leaves Mightyena struggling to do much other than offer free switches to most physical bulky mons in the tier. (Granbull, Rhydon and Mega Steelix say hi) Even having the perfect-in-NU coverage of Dark/Fairy doesn't stop Mightyena from being very ineffective. 99.9% of the time, another dark type is a better choice(heck, Krokorok probably uses Moxie just as well lol)
Malamar to A
Malamar is very effective right now. Having solid dark/fighting 2 move coverage, a plethora of decent sets, and a limited amount of answers. Malamar is surprisingly specially bulky when fully invested, living most hits. It's also able to quickly rack up boosts and become incredibly difficult to stop with physical attacks barring crits in just a couple turns. Beyond bug types, phazing, and signal beam, Malamar is also extremely difficult to stop once it gets started. Give it just one free turn and you may be in trouble. But that's just one set. You can also easily run things like scarf or chestorest, have different EV spreads, or even go special with infiltrator CM and Malamar's amazing special coverage.
Huntail to A-
It's just as good as gorebyss, trading coverage and power for priority and burn immunity. Can we please just put them in the same rank already?
God darn that is a lot of changes. Seriously a week no one says anything in this thread and then I see this.
Don't get me wrong I actually agree with a significant amount of what you said but a lot of the mons you talked about felt like you didn't take into account the purpose of low viability rankings. For many of these you described why they were outclassed by other pokemon in the tier and explained why their already low viability ranking should be lowered even further (Seriously 22 nominations for pokemon dropping viability). The whole purpose of low viability rankings is for pokemon that for the most part have their job better done by other pokemon or have trouble doing their job properly in the metagame but still retain a noticeable niche.
Take these two for example:
Would I considered both of these outclassed by Liepard as a prankster user? Absolutely. But Volbeat gets tail glow baton pass so it has some minor niche, Meowstic-M gets screens which gives it another niche that liepard doesn't have. In these cases I don't really see enough reason to warrant dropping already low pokemon lower.
As well as a lot of your post seems to be "This pokemon has issues with Mega Steelix and thus should drop, this pokemon does well against Mega Steelix and thus should rise" I completely agree Mega Steelix is a dominating force on the metagame and I hope they suspect it soon but the truth is nearly every pokemon has some issues with Mega Steelix as it hits hard and has a lot of viable moves it can run. I don't think going through and changing the viability of dozens of pokemon according to one is a good idea no matter how influential said pokemon is.
Like this:
Just because you can't switch into Mega Steelix with Kanga kill with double-edge and sweep doesn't mean it should be lowered. Kanga hits hard and has priority to help negate the issue of its speed. Sure it relies on other pokemon to help wittle down its counters but what offensive pokemon doesn't. Kanga should definitely without a doubt stay where it is.
Condensed version of what I agree and disagree with:
I completely agree with you on rise of Mantine, Prinplup, Hippopotas, Simipour, and Bouffalant.
- Mantine is without a doubt one of the best defoggers in this meta and has a great typing vs Mega-Lix & Mega-Rupt its water immunity helps give it switches and gives it good synergy with other pokemon in the tier.
- Prinplup for the exact reasons you said not the best but it deserves more than C rank with its ability to both defog away hazards and set up rocks.
- Hippopotas because it is the only immediate weather inducing pokemon in the tier bar Snover (lol) and after extensive testing is not that bad as there are many pokemon in the tier that can really abuse sand Mega-Lix, Cradily, Sandslash, Stoutland, etc and has enough bulk where it can tank a few hits on the physical side.
- For same reasons you listed Simipour's combination of speed, nasty plot, and typing make it very good.
- Even though Serperior is gone Bouffalant still puts in a lot of work in this meta albeit slow it hits hard and has enough bulk where it can often set up Swords Dances on common grass type pokemon in the tier.
I completely agree with the drop of Piloswine and Rotom.
- Piloswine because there are ample amount of rock setters in this tier who in my opinion do its job better, it is definitely viable and its ability to tank ice and fire hits with thick fat or be immune to taunt with oblivious is great but it is undeserving of B+ rank in my opinion.
- Rotom for the same reasons you listed off has a lot of issues with all the new Megas still quite a good pokemon but it doesn't match up to other A rank threats with the changes ORAS has had to NU.
- I literally laughed when reading this. Besides being a fairy type what in the world does Mega Audino and Carbink do that is the same? Carbink sets up rocks, screens, maybe sets up weather and then can potentially explode. Mega Audino wish passes and can run various utility moves like encore and heal bell with often with Dazzling gleam and Flamethrower. If Mega Audino got stealth rocks that would be one thing but no Carbink stays where it is. Lickilicky and Mega Audino do perform similar roles but Lickilicky is useful to teams when the mega slot has already been taken but as well as lickilicky hits on the physical side and has unique utility moves over Audino such as Dragon tail and isn't forced to run wish or draining kiss for any form of recovery as it has leftovers it should stay where it is.
- Already touched up on Kangaskhan earlier it has a huge move pool, hits hard, has priority, hits ghost types with scrappy limiting potential checks, has many different good sets it can run it stays A+.
- Lumineon while I agree is outclassed by mantine in most ways. The combination of U-Turn to give momentum to the player as well as its mono water typing making it take less damage from rocks at the expense of being hit by spikes. Is enough differentiation to at least be listed. Crap mons that still retain a niche is what D- is for.
- Just because Torkoal is weak to rocks doesn't mean as much as you make it out to be, so is mantine, pelliper, cryogonal, and many other hazard removers in the tier. Similar to Prinplup it is one of the few pokemon that can both remove hazards and set them up and has lava plume for potential burns. It should stay where it is.
- "Mediocre Shell Smasher" for other tiers maybe but Barbaracles large move pool+Tough claws+decent stats makes it a threat. This is a mon that can completely sweep teams once its checks have been dealt with and even if you aren't running white herb can still tank priority rather well with its high defense stat. It should stay where it is.
Edit: Oh and forgot about Malamar seriously that things needs to rise pronto it is a monster. There is no reason it shouldn't be A/A+ in viability.
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I just want to make a full post explaining my reasoning for my opinions on how high viability should be formated.
S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.
This list contains four types of mons. Things that can sweep large portions of the metagame with VERY limited support, things that can wall most things in the tier, things that can support your team to an amazing level, and finally mons who are able to perform so many roles making it difficult to plan ahead and know who your counters are. All of these need to have their flaws by over whelmed by their significant advantages.
Gonna give example(s) of each:
Once it sets up it can break most of its counters in different ways. It's coverage helps it get passed the thngs that blockade it in the tier. (C ranked counter example is Raichu. Raichu lacks the coverage it needs to beat it's counters.) Gatr's ice punch and return allow it to beat the vast majority of NU viable stops to it's +2 water attacks.
Yes it has downsides but I will not get into them rn.
Bringing them in stops very high tier threats along with many low tier threats and switching in allows them to do a role you want whether it be setting up rocks, getting some status off, or picking off one mon they have to switch in
Obviously they have solid counters like pelipper for lix, or plume for yama, but they still are amazing mons. I do not think hariyama should be S. I used it as an example of the type of mon but I feel A+ is good enough for it. If you want more explanation I will elaborate :}
Uxie can support the team in so many ways multiple times. It can set weather, set rocks, heal bell, status, dual screens, and even get mementum though u-turn/memento. It can even run trick to beat things that want to try setting up. Uxie isn't there to take lives, it is there to help other mons like wall breakers/ sweepers.
Combusken is banned making it a great example :} It was able to easily bulk up and baton pass multiple times in a match to mons that had ways to get around moves like roar/yawn (xatu) there where things that could come in and force switches with something like d-tail which was not only over centralising, but allows combusken to attack and pass support on later.
Mesprit
What mesprit has is stealth rocks, trick scarf, great coverage, viable special and physical moveset, stats that are good no matter what it decides to run, and healing wish. Uxie obviously fits best in this catagory too.
I feel they need to be able to nuke the other team effectively, not need much support, and have ways to get around counters that doesn't require you to outpredict your opponent three or four times.
The reason I feel typh is not S material is because it needs support. It gets annihilated by hazards making you need to run lots of hazard control, it is very predictable since all good players tend to only run specs. Scarf is rare among top tier players because it simply doesn't work as well. In adition to hazard control it has to switch out against faster mons / priority furthering it's problems with hazards.
Not only that but typh has a select few mons that can really block its rampage. There are those mons with 4X weakness to hp grass who can switch in if not predicted (Rhydon + Seismitoad), ninetales+psychic cores, mantines (very viable rn), hariyama, and random others like lampant and regirock.
Typhlosion is by no means a bad mon XD. It is quite centralising since it in part forces you to run some antifire spam strat. However every person high ladder prepares for it so that's not an argument. Typh is good at doing damage but it is not on a level above the rest in my personal opinion.
Where Dentri stands
Typh --- A / A+
Camerupt --- A+ / S
Feraligatr --- S
Kangaskhan --- A-
Liligant --- A / A+
Uxie --- S
Mesprit --- S
Steelix --- S
Archeops --- A+
Hariyama --- A / A+
S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.
This list contains four types of mons. Things that can sweep large portions of the metagame with VERY limited support, things that can wall most things in the tier, things that can support your team to an amazing level, and finally mons who are able to perform so many roles making it difficult to plan ahead and know who your counters are. All of these need to have their flaws by over whelmed by their significant advantages.
Gonna give example(s) of each:
Sweepers
Things that can sweep large portions of the metagame with VERY limited support
Feraligatr
These S ranked mons need to be able to do their role with little to no support. Gatr finds it's own opportunities which are numerous, and doesn't need help setting up. It rarely relies on its teamates since it doesn't need maximum hazard control, dual screens, specific targeting ect. Lum berry means it doesn't need heal bell.Things that can sweep large portions of the metagame with VERY limited support
Once it sets up it can break most of its counters in different ways. It's coverage helps it get passed the thngs that blockade it in the tier. (C ranked counter example is Raichu. Raichu lacks the coverage it needs to beat it's counters.) Gatr's ice punch and return allow it to beat the vast majority of NU viable stops to it's +2 water attacks.
Yes it has downsides but I will not get into them rn.
Walls
Things that can wall
most things in the tier without
having many downsides to
switching in
Hariyama
Mega-Steelix
If you notice the best walls in the tiers are not things that are simply hard to break (dusclops, seismitoad) but they also are very good at dealing damage. Steelix and hariyama both have high attack stats that make them somewhat difficult to switch into, prevent them from being set up fodder, and allow you to use them offensively if need be. Steelix even has the fact that very few things even beat it one vs one.Things that can wall
most things in the tier without
having many downsides to
switching in
Bringing them in stops very high tier threats along with many low tier threats and switching in allows them to do a role you want whether it be setting up rocks, getting some status off, or picking off one mon they have to switch in
Obviously they have solid counters like pelipper for lix, or plume for yama, but they still are amazing mons. I do not think hariyama should be S. I used it as an example of the type of mon but I feel A+ is good enough for it. If you want more explanation I will elaborate :}
Support Mons
Things that can support your team to an amazing level
Uxie
Combusken
Whether it is spike stacking, dual screens, rocks, or baton/wish passing this type of mon is able to make the rest of your team amazing. Uxie is an iffy example because it bleeds into both walls/unpredictables, and can even sweep with calm mind. Things that can support your team to an amazing level
Uxie can support the team in so many ways multiple times. It can set weather, set rocks, heal bell, status, dual screens, and even get mementum though u-turn/memento. It can even run trick to beat things that want to try setting up. Uxie isn't there to take lives, it is there to help other mons like wall breakers/ sweepers.
Combusken is banned making it a great example :} It was able to easily bulk up and baton pass multiple times in a match to mons that had ways to get around moves like roar/yawn (xatu) there where things that could come in and force switches with something like d-tail which was not only over centralising, but allows combusken to attack and pass support on later.
Unpredictables
Mons who are able to perform so many roles making it difficult to plan ahead and know who your counters are
Mons who are able to perform so many roles making it difficult to plan ahead and know who your counters are
This type of mon can run so many different lethal sets, supportive sets, defensive sets you have no idea what they are going to do to beat you. The other catagories generally have some unpredictability but not nearly as much as these who can be doing many different roles and generally have amazing coverage. Mesprit is obviously a mon that can run anywhere from supportive options, set up options, wall breaking options, and coverage options.What mesprit has is stealth rocks, trick scarf, great coverage, viable special and physical moveset, stats that are good no matter what it decides to run, and healing wish. Uxie obviously fits best in this catagory too.
Wallbreakers
Mega-Camerupt
Typhlosion
Wallbreakers would probabpy fit in best with the description of sweepers even though there are obviously huge differences.
I feel they need to be able to nuke the other team effectively, not need much support, and have ways to get around counters that doesn't require you to outpredict your opponent three or four times.
The reason I feel typh is not S material is because it needs support. It gets annihilated by hazards making you need to run lots of hazard control, it is very predictable since all good players tend to only run specs. Scarf is rare among top tier players because it simply doesn't work as well. In adition to hazard control it has to switch out against faster mons / priority furthering it's problems with hazards.
Not only that but typh has a select few mons that can really block its rampage. There are those mons with 4X weakness to hp grass who can switch in if not predicted (Rhydon + Seismitoad), ninetales+psychic cores, mantines (very viable rn), hariyama, and random others like lampant and regirock.
Typhlosion is by no means a bad mon XD. It is quite centralising since it in part forces you to run some antifire spam strat. However every person high ladder prepares for it so that's not an argument. Typh is good at doing damage but it is not on a level above the rest in my personal opinion.
Where Dentri stands
Typh --- A / A+
Camerupt --- A+ / S
Feraligatr --- S
Kangaskhan --- A-
Liligant --- A / A+
Uxie --- S
Mesprit --- S
Steelix --- S
Archeops --- A+
Hariyama --- A / A+
Well I agree with everything in your first and third post, but I have a few problems with the second post
Note: I do agree with u about bouff and barbarcle.
Your other points people have said my opinions. I will comment on rapidash, stoutland, and hippopotas.
In terms of stoutland and hippopotas I have successfully been running sand without baby hippo proving stoutland can easily function well without it. In fact I would go as far as saying stoutland is amazing for doing things that ur frens tauros and kanga can't!
Stoutland def deserves to be a good two - three ranks above hippopotas.
I've tried rapidash and the reason I find it great is because it has the speed tier of a god, a great movepool, and flash fire to stop that typhlosion everyone is obsessed with. With band it 3HKOs seismitoad while rhydon/hariyama take a solid chunk from drill run.
Stoutland --- C+ / B-
Rapidash --- C-
Hippopotus --- C-
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not sure why people want hippo or stoutland to rise. Despite what you say I dont think stoutland has a niche over other normal types like kangaskhan or tauros outside of sand. Sand does not match up well in the metagame right now because opposing Mega Steelix walls stoutland and gets a nice power boost from the sand. If Mega Steelix does end up leaving then sand will actually be pretty good but untill that happens i'm gonna nominate Stoutland for C/C-
I'd like to say that it hardly walls stout
252+ Atk Life Orb Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 161-190 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
and it is seriously threatening with sand boost, against offense and balance. It's different to both tauros and kanga since it needs sand to do its best job, however it is extremely threatening with its job that it does. It outspeeds every threat in the tier and mons like Vileplume and musharna that require on weather recovery moves are beaten 1 on 1 with sand. I'd say C+ seems fair.
I will note that I had a few other nominations to say that I ran out of time for as raises because saying drops for shitty mons are much easier/quicker, maybe I'll get to those tonight, and I will admit I was a tad harsh on a couple mons. Kinda felt like this thread really needed some discussion though since nobody's been saying anything and nothing's changed in like forever.
Mega Steelix/Feraligatr/Mesprit/Typhlosion to S rank
Not much to say here, all great mons that do their job(s) really well and are all huge threats. Everyone's already said what I could say about these mons, so just saying I agree.
Lanturn to B+
One of NU's best electric types, Lanturn was gifted with both solid defensive typing and many solid tools in it's movepool. It can run both defensive and offensive sets very effectively with ease. It checks Feraligatr, fire spam, electric types, and specially attacking water types(lol @ grass knots doing about 25% to even an offensive Lanturn), while having unique typing quirks that give it a supereffective STAB on two of the most common electric answers, M-Lix and M-rupt, both of which get destroyed by a specs hydro pump. On any Lanturn set, it's ability to volt switch allows it to grab a lot of momentum while it's water stab allows it to threaten most ground types from switching into said volt switch. Lanturn's support movepool also includes many other gems such as Heal Bell and Thunder Wave. It's also capable of stopping the momentum of any opponent's volt switch users thanks to a solid ability in volt absorb, and status foes with stab discharges and scalds. Offensively it's able to smash most mons with stab hydro pumps and can hit most possible switch-ins with ice beam/hp grass coverage. With it's amazing 125 hp stat it's also able to sponge up tons of hits, allowing it to check or counter many common mons like Feraligatr, Typhlosion, Rotom, and Samurott with ease.
Steelix to B
Thanks to answers to Mega Steelix being everywhere even more so, Steelix has gotten less effective in the current metagame. In addition to checks and counters to both being everywhere, regular Steelix suffers from getting worn down even quicker specially by things like Rotom shadow balls and Mesprit hp fires, and it's inability to hit nearly as hard without sacrificing longevity and taking lo recoil when using eq leaves it struggling to wear down a lot of answers and even other mons like Weezing or Feraligatr which have less to fear.
Vileplume to B+
Not only does Vileplume check or counter every fighting type in the tier in addition to Feraligatrs, especially those lacking ice punch, it has both decent support and the ability to go both offensive and defensive. It has access to Effect Spore, Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy, and even Stun Spore, enabling it to cripple opponents with status or heal your side's statuses, and it can also clear t-spikes. It can also pack a surprising punch with it's solid special attack stat. Plume is also gifted with a decent defensive typing, giving it key resistances to fighting, water, and grass, while having super-effective stabs on the latter two.
Jumpluff to C
I have to admit, this thing is surprisingly threatening. It's extremely fast, outspeeding even pyroar and scyther with it's base 110 speed. It also has the devastating ability to put something to sleep with sleep powder, and a powerful stab in 110 bp Acrobatics. Not only is Jumpluff able to wear down a lot of mons, it's also able to clean up a lot of matches itself thanks to it's speed and surprisingly decent power especially after a +2 from SD.
Crustle to B+
Despite a rise in defoggers, hazards can still be effective and Crustle is still one of the more effective ones. Access to sr and spikes allows it to support it's team effectively, while rock blast is a great tool to break sashes and sturdy allows it to free up it's item slot for mental herb, red card, or even something more gimmicky like power herb solarbeam. It's even able to run things like Shell Smash to get past certain problematic mons, and also gets knock off to cripple certain mons.
Exeggutor to A-
While Exeggutor is slow and lacks that much special bulk, it's able to break walls incredibly well, hitting insanely hard with stab leaf storm and breaking even most common answers to grass types, psychic types, and special attackers. Nothing wants to switch into a specs exeggutor except for the rare Zwelious. Even beyond this Exeggutor can run a myriad of sets thanks to harvest and a solid movepool. Defensive, LumRest, Sun sweeper, subseed, and tons of harvest gimmicks all are possible with Exeggutor.
Not much to say here, all great mons that do their job(s) really well and are all huge threats. Everyone's already said what I could say about these mons, so just saying I agree.
Lanturn to B+
One of NU's best electric types, Lanturn was gifted with both solid defensive typing and many solid tools in it's movepool. It can run both defensive and offensive sets very effectively with ease. It checks Feraligatr, fire spam, electric types, and specially attacking water types(lol @ grass knots doing about 25% to even an offensive Lanturn), while having unique typing quirks that give it a supereffective STAB on two of the most common electric answers, M-Lix and M-rupt, both of which get destroyed by a specs hydro pump. On any Lanturn set, it's ability to volt switch allows it to grab a lot of momentum while it's water stab allows it to threaten most ground types from switching into said volt switch. Lanturn's support movepool also includes many other gems such as Heal Bell and Thunder Wave. It's also capable of stopping the momentum of any opponent's volt switch users thanks to a solid ability in volt absorb, and status foes with stab discharges and scalds. Offensively it's able to smash most mons with stab hydro pumps and can hit most possible switch-ins with ice beam/hp grass coverage. With it's amazing 125 hp stat it's also able to sponge up tons of hits, allowing it to check or counter many common mons like Feraligatr, Typhlosion, Rotom, and Samurott with ease.
Steelix to B
Thanks to answers to Mega Steelix being everywhere even more so, Steelix has gotten less effective in the current metagame. In addition to checks and counters to both being everywhere, regular Steelix suffers from getting worn down even quicker specially by things like Rotom shadow balls and Mesprit hp fires, and it's inability to hit nearly as hard without sacrificing longevity and taking lo recoil when using eq leaves it struggling to wear down a lot of answers and even other mons like Weezing or Feraligatr which have less to fear.
Vileplume to B+
Not only does Vileplume check or counter every fighting type in the tier in addition to Feraligatrs, especially those lacking ice punch, it has both decent support and the ability to go both offensive and defensive. It has access to Effect Spore, Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy, and even Stun Spore, enabling it to cripple opponents with status or heal your side's statuses, and it can also clear t-spikes. It can also pack a surprising punch with it's solid special attack stat. Plume is also gifted with a decent defensive typing, giving it key resistances to fighting, water, and grass, while having super-effective stabs on the latter two.
Jumpluff to C
I have to admit, this thing is surprisingly threatening. It's extremely fast, outspeeding even pyroar and scyther with it's base 110 speed. It also has the devastating ability to put something to sleep with sleep powder, and a powerful stab in 110 bp Acrobatics. Not only is Jumpluff able to wear down a lot of mons, it's also able to clean up a lot of matches itself thanks to it's speed and surprisingly decent power especially after a +2 from SD.
Crustle to B+
Despite a rise in defoggers, hazards can still be effective and Crustle is still one of the more effective ones. Access to sr and spikes allows it to support it's team effectively, while rock blast is a great tool to break sashes and sturdy allows it to free up it's item slot for mental herb, red card, or even something more gimmicky like power herb solarbeam. It's even able to run things like Shell Smash to get past certain problematic mons, and also gets knock off to cripple certain mons.
Exeggutor to A-
While Exeggutor is slow and lacks that much special bulk, it's able to break walls incredibly well, hitting insanely hard with stab leaf storm and breaking even most common answers to grass types, psychic types, and special attackers. Nothing wants to switch into a specs exeggutor except for the rare Zwelious. Even beyond this Exeggutor can run a myriad of sets thanks to harvest and a solid movepool. Defensive, LumRest, Sun sweeper, subseed, and tons of harvest gimmicks all are possible with Exeggutor.
Update time, ras said to go ahead without everyone voting. So there were a bunch of nominations for S but the council were split and felt that Feraligatr and Mesprit were not quite as good in this meta as they were in XY. I didn't address dentri's or blaziken's post or any of them after that as they were made after the voting was taking place.
I will be trying to update this thread between once and twice a week.
Code:
Poliwrath B- ==> B
Typhlosion A+ ==> S
Mega Steelix A+ ==> S
Weezing B+ ==> A-
Mega Camerupt A+ ==> S
Ninetales B+ ==> A-
Evire C+ ==> B-
Mantine C+ ==> B-
Cryogonal B+ ==> A-
Liepard B+ ==> A-
CanadianWifier
Run Away With Me
Gonna once again nominate Malamar for A or A+. Having it in B+ is just criminal because of how fucking good it is in ORAS.
Its also aided by the fact that unless you have bug coverage somewhere on your team, it doesn't need much to completely sweep you. Not to mention having bug coverage in the first place is weak so most people will skip on it, this is where malamar proves to be most deadly because as turns pass it becomes increasingly hard to kill thanks to superpower.
- Status