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Media One Piece (spoilers!)
- Thread starter some hero
- Start date
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Actually no fuck
Bartolomeo
Bartolomeo
I want to say one of Elizabello II, Dagama, or Tank Lepanto if only because Dagama looks so dang awesome. It is a longshot, though, with how Bartolomeo has been played up.
A more sophisticated character than another doesn't need to beat up the other. Bellamy might as well not get dominated by Bart, he might just forfeit, losing by getting out of the arena (with a dirty trick or whatever), idk. The fact is that Bellamy can still be relevant to the plot as DD's helper or whatever.
However, Bart was build up to be a very strong Rookie and everyone will be pumped up to see NW's power and it doesn't make any sense to me for Oda to ruin this. By your logic, which is that the more the sophisticated character is the one that has more screen time (and Bellammy has barely more screen time btw), this would make any past character be more sophisticated than characters that were introduced later, implying that screen time = relevance to the plot or growth of character, which doesn't make sense. If Oda has big plans for Bart he will execute them and the same goes for Bellammy, but saying that Bellammy should get more attention because we have seen him before doesn't make sense.
Finally, you say that you care more about Bellammy because you have seen him before, but one could aruge that he doesn't like Bellammy because he has seen him before and didn't like him and thus would prefer the introduction of a new character than the recycling of an old one. That's not my view, just showing you how your argument can go both ways and doesn't really explain why Bellamy is more important to the story atm.
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Can I switch again to Bellamy?
EDIT: Like it's so hard to pick, because the story can function either way. Plot will advance irregardless of the winner, so who it is doesn't really matter.
EDIT: Like it's so hard to pick, because the story can function either way. Plot will advance irregardless of the winner, so who it is doesn't really matter.
Bellamy
Bart. Definitely gonna be close, though.
B: Bartolomeo
C:Fighting Bull Luffy
D: Cavendish
C:
D: Cavendish
Bella
In OP, the strength of a character is tied to the strength of his 信念 (shinnen, (a) belief｟in｠(a) faith｟in｠; (a) conviction; confidence; (a) principle).
So Shinnen, strength of Conviction and Enlightenment, always go hand in hand with fighting strength in OP.
Basically always, wise worldly guys > stupid punk-asses, in OP and in anime in general.
The sophistication I speak of is connected to Bellamy's Shinnen, his enlightenment. He has a strong world view-- maybe not as strong as Luffy's, but very strong, and different; the clash of these contrasts are what make OP more meaningful than a simple brawl. Even Oda talks about the importance of "clash of shinnen". Lucci v. Luffy-- possibly the most epic OP battle so far, is exactly this.
While Barty's got only 1 chapter to really be developed; you can almost tell that Oda's created this character to be nothing more than a stupid punk-ass.
That's why I said, his intro reminds me of those of Bellamy's or Carabou's. Stupid punk ass who thinks he's hot shit, and his strength/validation is based on something superficial (bounty prices => beating on some random-who-give-a-fuck VA who beat on another random-who-gives-a-fuck)
As he is, I don't think he will be developed (in this arc) as anything more than a strong punk ass.
Therefore, Bella's got the Shinnen advantage; which in OP, pretty much translates into absolute advantage.
Sophistication here has to do with Shinnen / Enlightenment.
We've been with Luffy forever and we KNOW he doesn't have the strongest Shinnen.
The strength of BB's Shinnen was developed in like 3 pages in Jaya. Ace appeared for half a chapter but we still got an excellent gauge of his Shinnen (in his talking about his nakama, Luffy and WB).
Akainu has one of the strongest Shinnen of all (if not the current strongest); and he didn't even appear until MF. Screen time has zero to do with it.
FYI, I care more about Bellamy because he's more interesting-- why is he more interesting?
Because he looks to be worldy, complex as a character, possessing of strong conviction-- and not a stupid punk ass.
BTW-- you didn't address one of my main points:
Since Bella has never beaten, or even threatened Luffy, beating him will give a character Zero street cred in the eyes of the readers. Beating Bella wouldn't build Barty any more than if he beat Alvida; lol
Shinnen alone isn't enough to validate/substantiate a character's strength; not such that you could use him as fodder to establish another's. For that, Shinnen has to be matched with actual on-screen performance.
For instance, in Jaya, BB is set up to have a great Shinnen (or at least better than Bellamy's), but if Bellamy had beat on BB's ass, it wouldn't have done anything to establish Bella as a "strong" character; it would only have made us as readers disappointed that a character with BB's Shinnen got beat by a punk-ass.
^This is a big reason why I think it will be Bella who wins.
You're not thinking correctly about this sophistication idea;
In OP, the strength of a character is tied to the strength of his 信念 (shinnen, (a) belief｟in｠(a) faith｟in｠; (a) conviction; confidence; (a) principle).
Luffy is generally portrayed as a simple character, but when it comes to principle, when it comes broader life view, the strength of his shinnen leads him to perceive and view things in a different, wiser, more perceptive way than the average people and their typical thought. Its this long view wisdom and strength of conviction that captures the respect of the crew, and makes their faith in him so strong.
Furthermore, part of why we (and other characters) perceive Luffy as so promising, lies in his broader world view having a lot in common with those of men of legend (Reyleigh, Shanks, WB, even BB, but Roger more than any).
As the story progresses though, Luffy encounters characters whose Shinnen are even stronger; through experience, they often have a broader perception of the world-- they are more enlightened. This goes for basically every character who could beat Luffy's ass; and the stronger the enlightenment/shinnen, the stronger the character (pre-skip Luffy < Sentomaru < Jinbe < Akainu etc.)
I would say as a character, Akainu's main advantage against Aokiji (pre-time skip) was the strength of his Shinnen (conviction in this case); having such an absolute view compared to Aokiji, who was always second guessing the justice of the marines.
Now that Aokiji has left the marines and, as Dofla has said "made a decision for himself"-- his Shinnen will be completely different from what it was before.
The strength of a character's shinnen and enlightenment are almost always very telling about his strength (or at least former strength).
Furthermore, part of why we (and other characters) perceive Luffy as so promising, lies in his broader world view having a lot in common with those of men of legend (Reyleigh, Shanks, WB, even BB, but Roger more than any).
As the story progresses though, Luffy encounters characters whose Shinnen are even stronger; through experience, they often have a broader perception of the world-- they are more enlightened. This goes for basically every character who could beat Luffy's ass; and the stronger the enlightenment/shinnen, the stronger the character (pre-skip Luffy < Sentomaru < Jinbe < Akainu etc.)
I would say as a character, Akainu's main advantage against Aokiji (pre-time skip) was the strength of his Shinnen (conviction in this case); having such an absolute view compared to Aokiji, who was always second guessing the justice of the marines.
Now that Aokiji has left the marines and, as Dofla has said "made a decision for himself"-- his Shinnen will be completely different from what it was before.
The strength of a character's shinnen and enlightenment are almost always very telling about his strength (or at least former strength).
So Shinnen, strength of Conviction and Enlightenment, always go hand in hand with fighting strength in OP.
Basically always, wise worldly guys > stupid punk-asses, in OP and in anime in general.
The sophistication I speak of is connected to Bellamy's Shinnen, his enlightenment. He has a strong world view-- maybe not as strong as Luffy's, but very strong, and different; the clash of these contrasts are what make OP more meaningful than a simple brawl. Even Oda talks about the importance of "clash of shinnen". Lucci v. Luffy-- possibly the most epic OP battle so far, is exactly this.
While Barty's got only 1 chapter to really be developed; you can almost tell that Oda's created this character to be nothing more than a stupid punk-ass.
That's why I said, his intro reminds me of those of Bellamy's or Carabou's. Stupid punk ass who thinks he's hot shit, and his strength/validation is based on something superficial (bounty prices => beating on some random-who-give-a-fuck VA who beat on another random-who-gives-a-fuck)
As he is, I don't think he will be developed (in this arc) as anything more than a strong punk ass.
Therefore, Bella's got the Shinnen advantage; which in OP, pretty much translates into absolute advantage.
How did you get this out of my statement?
Sophistication here has to do with Shinnen / Enlightenment.
We've been with Luffy forever and we KNOW he doesn't have the strongest Shinnen.
The strength of BB's Shinnen was developed in like 3 pages in Jaya. Ace appeared for half a chapter but we still got an excellent gauge of his Shinnen (in his talking about his nakama, Luffy and WB).
Akainu has one of the strongest Shinnen of all (if not the current strongest); and he didn't even appear until MF. Screen time has zero to do with it.
I can ignore the rest of this right? It's irrelevant after all because your definition of sophistication was off basis.
I said that nowhere
who is this "he" you're talking about?
FYI, I care more about Bellamy because he's more interesting-- why is he more interesting?
Because he looks to be worldy, complex as a character, possessing of strong conviction-- and not a stupid punk ass.
BTW-- you didn't address one of my main points:
Since Bella has never beaten, or even threatened Luffy, beating him will give a character Zero street cred in the eyes of the readers. Beating Bella wouldn't build Barty any more than if he beat Alvida; lol
Shinnen alone isn't enough to validate/substantiate a character's strength; not such that you could use him as fodder to establish another's. For that, Shinnen has to be matched with actual on-screen performance.
For instance, in Jaya, BB is set up to have a great Shinnen (or at least better than Bellamy's), but if Bellamy had beat on BB's ass, it wouldn't have done anything to establish Bella as a "strong" character; it would only have made us as readers disappointed that a character with BB's Shinnen got beat by a punk-ass.
^This is a big reason why I think it will be Bella who wins.
locopoke
Banned deucer.
TEAM BELLAMY
@Alexwolf:
To me it doesn't seem like Bartolomeo is some big power in the New World. Rather, he's just some punk, similar to pre-TS Bellamy. It would make sense to develop Bellamy further by having him kick Bart's ass just like Luffy did to him back in Jaya.
@Alexwolf:
To me it doesn't seem like Bartolomeo is some big power in the New World. Rather, he's just some punk, similar to pre-TS Bellamy. It would make sense to develop Bellamy further by having him kick Bart's ass just like Luffy did to him back in Jaya.
^They could very well not know about the mera mera
^ considering how so many bitches know about it, if they don't, they suck
and I love the WB pirates :X
Also, off topic, just want to say that even though the animation quality / pacing has been awful since Fishman Island, seeing Law animated makes my fangirl panties wet every single time.
Also the new opening is very meh, nothing special about it.
and I love the WB pirates :X
Also, off topic, just want to say that even though the animation quality / pacing has been awful since Fishman Island, seeing Law animated makes my fangirl panties wet every single time.
Also the new opening is very meh, nothing special about it.
So basically this is what you believe:
Also, i don't really get where you got the idea that Bart was created to be nothing more than a stupid punk-ass. Just because he beat up the guy that beat up his underling and he insults the crowd? If this is the definition of a punk-ass for you, then fine, but don't forget that Kid is one too, and Kid has never lost once and has been hyped up to be a pretty strong character. I know that Kid has much more lines that speak of its character than Bart, but come on Chou, we have only seen Bart for two chapters.
Imo Oda introduced Bart to hype us up for the incoming tour and no matter what you say, Bart seems much more intimidating and threatening than Bellammy to me, and i think this is what most people believe, and what Oda wants to achieve.
How do you hype up a big brawl better, speaking solely in terms of combat and nice action? By reintroducing old characters that have been OHKOed by Luffy or by introducing new cool characters that fodderize VA's?
Ok i get the first thing that you say, but what i don't get why this translates to Bellammy beating Bart. As we all know, OP is about who has the strongest will and not who is the strongest, so Bellammy losing to Bart wouldn't really mean anything. But it would mean a lot for Bart, as i strongly believe that Oda wants to amaze us with strong fighters in NW, and this could be Bart's role: a strong individual that shows the power of NW.
Also, i don't really get where you got the idea that Bart was created to be nothing more than a stupid punk-ass. Just because he beat up the guy that beat up his underling and he insults the crowd? If this is the definition of a punk-ass for you, then fine, but don't forget that Kid is one too, and Kid has never lost once and has been hyped up to be a pretty strong character. I know that Kid has much more lines that speak of its character than Bart, but come on Chou, we have only seen Bart for two chapters.
Imo Oda introduced Bart to hype us up for the incoming tour and no matter what you say, Bart seems much more intimidating and threatening than Bellammy to me, and i think this is what most people believe, and what Oda wants to achieve.
How do you hype up a big brawl better, speaking solely in terms of combat and nice action? By reintroducing old characters that have been OHKOed by Luffy or by introducing new cool characters that fodderize VA's?
Oda goes out-of-his-way to make sure Kidd is not "just another punk ass." He sets him up with that giant bounty-- shows him saying lines that develop philosophical complexity, show him as a character who is both confident but also with his own brand of enlightenment.
Bart's intro: "Fuck all 'ya fuckin fuckers!" --basically.
If Oda meant for Bart to be a character like Kidd, he wouldn't only have given us this much to go by on our first impression-- a character's first impression is his life; especially in an arc like this where so many are being introduced.
Bellamy is absolutely designed to have a stronger will than Barto; I can't think of anything good coming from him losing.
edit:
Also, Japanese 信念 (shinnen) >>>>>>>> English Will
In terms of applicability to One Piece.
Bart's intro: "Fuck all 'ya fuckin fuckers!" --basically.
If Oda meant for Bart to be a character like Kidd, he wouldn't only have given us this much to go by on our first impression-- a character's first impression is his life; especially in an arc like this where so many are being introduced.
Bellamy is absolutely designed to have a stronger will than Barto; I can't think of anything good coming from him losing.
edit:
Also, Japanese 信念 (shinnen) >>>>>>>> English Will
In terms of applicability to One Piece.
Bartellomo seems like that character that they introduced in order to put in perspective the strength of another character, in this case being Bella.
My bet is on Bella
My bet is on Bella
@Aldy-- we tend to think of the BB's as evil, and WB's as more noble pirates. BB's are more likely to be connected (or have connections to) the underworld, (and therefore Dofla).
Excuse me Chou, do you want me to remind you what were Kidd's first lines in the manga? Here you go:
''You are the one who was staring at me. You annoy me... I'll take care of you right now.''
As i said again, give a break to Bart, we have only seen him for once chapter and yet you call him a punk-ass with little room for character improvement? And don't tell me that Kidd was setup to be something very big, as Bart has a big bounty too, not to mention how he fodderized a VA, which for some strange reason you seem to think that is not a big deal.
''You are the one who was staring at me. You annoy me... I'll take care of you right now.''
As i said again, give a break to Bart, we have only seen him for once chapter and yet you call him a punk-ass with little room for character improvement? And don't tell me that Kidd was setup to be something very big, as Bart has a big bounty too, not to mention how he fodderized a VA, which for some strange reason you seem to think that is not a big deal.