Tournament OM Classic Polling Thread

[MAMP]

A few thoughts:

I definitely think an old gen NFE is a good move. Old gen NFEs are popular and active, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

OTOH, I'm opposed to including any variant of PH in this tournament. This is not because I don't like PH, I think it's a cool and skillful metagame, but PH in any generation is truly unlike any other form of Pokemon. This gives it a pretty sizable and devoted cult following, but not a whole lot of general appeal to people outside of that community. My concern is that the people who aren't fans of PH who have to play it in the playoffs are going to have no fun, and the games are going to be very low quality because PH is so weird that it takes a lot of metagame-specific knowledge and experience to even be competent at it. It's a tier that's very difficult to learn, and one where general mons skills don't transfer all that well. Another thing to note about BW Hackmons in particular is that it was played without Team Preview (I believe because it literally predated the implementation of it on PS), which means a modern implementation of it has to either conflict with how the tier was originally played, or conflict with how every other BW metagame works for arbitrary reasons.

I like the idea of including a BW metagame, but it's a bit awkward because most of the OMs that existed in BW either have a much more well-liked version in ORAS or USUM or their BW iteration is really unbalanced and suffers from a lot of weird and outdated tiering decisions (like the legality of Evasion and Moody in BH, or the Normal Clause and legal Ubers in Stabmons). I think the best option for a BW tier is Tier Shift, which was super popular at the time. A bit of an off-the-wall option is to pick one of the BW OMs that was popular but either doesn't exist in the current gen or isn't an OM anymore, like Glitchmons or Smogon Doubles.

Definitely in agreement that this tournament shouldn't include any metagames that never had an active playerbase, like BW Camomons or anything like that.

USUM BH is for sure the best choice for BH, it's easily the most developed, balanced, and competitive old gen BH. If ORAS is included I think we would definitely have to look at removing Gengarite, and possibly also taking action on Sleep Clause (-ate is also completely busted in that gen, but at this point I think that's just a part of the character of the metagame and it's too late to really do anything about it).

Some metas that I really like but aren't popular enough to justify including: ORAS Sky Battles, RBY Balanced Hackmons, ORAS Smogon Triples, LGPE Balanced Hackmons, ORAS Protean Palace, ORAS Averagemons

 

[berry]

OTOH, I'm opposed to including any variant of PH in this tournament. This is not because I don't like PH, I think it's a cool and skillful metagame, but PH in any generation is truly unlike any other form of Pokemon. This gives it a pretty sizable and devoted cult following, but not a whole lot of general appeal to people outside of that community. My concern is that the people who aren't fans of PH who have to play it in the playoffs are going to have no fun, and the games are going to be very low quality because PH is so weird that it takes a lot of metagame-specific knowledge and experience to even be competent at it. It's a tier that's very difficult to learn, and one where general mons skills don't transfer all that well. Another thing to note about BW Hackmons in particular is that it was played without Team Preview (I believe because it literally predated the implementation of it on PS), which means a modern implementation of it has to either conflict with how the tier was originally played, or conflict with how every other BW metagame works for arbitrary reasons.

Although my ideal “top 5” list included ORAS PH (and I still stand behind the fact that ORAS PH is an incredible format), I’ve changed my mind and agree with mamp that the format isn’t fit to be in this tour, at least not mixed in with metas like AAA and STAB. It’s truly unlike any of the other formats that are being proposed for this tour, and I can definitely see players in the finals complaining about it because they aren’t part of the ph “cult“. It’s not an enjoyable meta when you’re being forced to play it just to win a tour, and you have experience with the other 4 formats picked.

Another reason for me abandoning ph in my top 5 is the “split format”. During its time as a ladder on the server, oras hackmons only existed as Classic Hackmons, a completely different format than is available in this tournament. Pure Hackmons only ever gained steam in the post-oras world, and for a long time ph only had a pre-oldshark “underground community” of a small handful of players. The format never had any real activity or play until the modern day when ransei founded oldshark, so it goes against the point of a classic tour representing old and popular formats.

PH formats never really “existed” and they only gained steam after the community adopted a new definition for hackmons. The only time these formats were popular in the past was on their CH ladders, which don’t comply with all game mechanics and fall into the fantasy format category.

That being said, I believe the ideal makeup of this tournament’s tiers should be 2USUM 2ORAS 1BW. Many players have stepped forward and agreed with the stance that USUM BH and ORAS AAA are their preferred picks, so I think those two are no brainers.

my new list:

1.USUM BH
2. USUM MNM
3. ORAS AAA
4. ORAS STAB - STAB needs representation in this tour as a core OM, but I think the BW tier could be given to something better.
5. BW TS - as MAMP said, a super popular format and it’s hard to mess up TS, maybe just an eviolite ban if it isn’t already in place and TS not boosting HP, and we should be all good.

 

[Iguana]

Hey, all! This is probably a bit belated by this point, but I wanted to share some thoughts here as I am very enthusiastic about this idea for an OM Classic! :)

I am partial here, but I'd like very much to throw my support behind Pure Hackmons receiving a slot in this. ORAS PH is one of the best and most balanced tiers out there, and that much I can say from an unbiased perspective. There is a rich history to it as well, and the tier and metagame have nicely continued to develop through the Old Shark room (where I'm a moderator) and both new and old PH enthusiasts. Additionally, the Old Shark room may be private, but we always have resources and people willing to assist others in learning the tiers. Given how stringently tiered some formats can be, I think some might find it refreshing to try out a format with no restrictions imposed upon it. Additionally, given Old Shark's focus specifically on old Gens of PH, it seems to me that it's the closest in terms of alignment to OM Classic.

I am very enthusiastic about BW PH as well, but if PH were to receive a slot here, I think most of us would agree it should be ORAS PH. It truly is a spectacular and balanced tier with always more room to develop and explore. (USUM PH has a good following and is a popular format, particularly after OM Mashups had taken it on before Old Shark. I just am not particularly a fan of the power creep in that meta with CFZs and what-not, but that's fairly subjective on my part.)

As for the other formats, I believe some great thoughts on those have already been shared. Old Gen NFE formats are super fun and would encourage participation from multiple communities, so it would be nice to see one of those included. USUM BH was (probably still is) a very popular format that also was nicely balanced and always received a lot of attention when it was the current Gen.

In summary, I'd very much like to see a PH format included here since there is an entire community of people devoted to old Gens of PH (who absolutely are willing to teach others as well!) and because frankly the metagames are balanced, always developing, and very engaging.

 

[in the hills]

Thank you everyone who has shown interest in this tour and given your opinions on the tiers included! The OM Leadership and I have worked together and with your posts, have been able to decide on the metagames that will represent OM Classic! The information thread will be up soon with the dates of each Cup, thank you all again for your interest!