Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread

[lag=bad]

rate my team (please)
​

The idea when making this team was that I really wanted to work with choice band Pdon as I really like the fast power it offers without needing setup. I wanted a more offensive team so I opted to add a second mold breaker mon in rayquaza because of some set experimenting I've been doing recently with mixed shell smash to counter normal ray checks. Subpass Deo-a works well with both, and gale wings ray helps set hazards. But on to the team.

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Beat Up
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows ​

Groudon Primal is the best offensive pokemon in the tier. Its been said before but I will echo it here, this thing is a beast.CB v-create steamrolls nearly every defensive pokemon in the tier and thousand arrows picks off whatever is left. Beat up is to hit giratina (although not very well) and u-turn is a great pivot option. While Pdon struggles with a healthy tina, the rest of the team can handle/damage it enough that that tina isn't much of an issue most of the time. the only cases where this is not true is when 2 or more pokemon on the team have been ko'd, at which point beat up is never getting close to killing giratina anymore.

Audino-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Aromatherapy
- Defog
- Heal Order ​

Long gone are the days where Maudino was unranked on the wonder guard viability tier list. With great bulk, a decently slow speed tier, and a great defensive typing, this pokemon can easily come in on almost all physical sweepers, and Latios-mega as well. Audino plays one of the most important roles on this team, as the primary support pokemon, keeping it alive is relatively imperative. with the ability to almost completely wall common shadow tag and non-setup sweepers, this pokemon is absurdly good. While Maudino does struggle with trick pokemon, being able to predict trick to switch in Pdon for free is always welcome, and diminishes this risk greatly.
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Latios-Mega Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 129-153 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO this is one of the more important calcs for physical Maudino, and the main reason to run it. Latios-mega can run through the team otherwise, so its very important that Maudino be around to check it.
Other important Maudino calcs:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Groudon-Primal Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 127-150 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 68.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 236-278 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 253-298 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Deoxys-Attack @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Gastro Acid
- Psystrike
- Baton Pass ​

This has risen up to be my favorite subpass pokemon. It outspeeds beedrill, can gastro acid sweepers to stop them, psystrike chips Pogre, Mgar, Blissey, and occasionally Maudino. I opt for 252 spa as Deo-a is not living any hits, regardless of whether it has 252hp ev's or not, and so I thought it better to chip other mons a little harder. But honestly subpass holds the team together. Gastro acid + psystrike behind a sub can force difficult predicts which let the teams heavy hitters come in easily. The other great thing about subpass deo-a is that people are really not expecting wonder guard or substitute on a deoxys, so that can be used to fool people. The other great reason I chose deo-a over something like xerneas is it destroys beedrill. Beedrill-mega, while not as popular right now, is still a decent threat to most subpass pokemon such as xerneas, Pogre, arceus, and Mgar, because it outspeeds and taunts them, however deo-a has no such issues.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Oblivion Wing
- Thousand Arrows ​

Sub ray is second only to Pdon on my list of the best sweepers. And this set makes full use of that. while perhaps worse than the standard dark void/taunt sets in some ways, Mixed tarrows ray offers the unique bonuses of completely invalidating most common ray counters. Shell smash life orb is necessary to ensure that ray ohko's registeel. 208 hp gives ray enough bulk to shrug a hit from most passive mons, but still recover enough hp from owing to outlive curse if unboosted (in most cases) While ray still needs help from Pdon to take out things such as specially defensive Maudino, and certain non-ground weak flying resists, its sweeping ability and damage output are still enough to easily have this spot over any other sweeper.

Ray tarrows calcs

+2 0 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 398-468 (109.3 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 260-307 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 398-468 (98.5 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Giratina @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Chatter
- Encore ​

I am just going to say this now, confusion is by far the most busted mechanic this generation. With paralysis being the only competitor. A 50% chance to hit yourself in confusion is so absurdly good that it can force out most sweepers just through having it applied. I am running chatter on Giratina here because I feel that normally giratina is too passive, and I wanted a better plethora of options to stop sweepers. chatter being unbounceable is also nice as giratina doesn't have to worry about statusing itself. While this does make gira less threatening to wonder guards, I think that being able to actually threaten some anti-tina measures is quite nice.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chatter
- Oblivion Wing
- Taunt
- Spikes ​

while unable to match Diancie or Mgyara in sheer power, Gale wings rayquaza offers a niche anti-sweeper role in its ability to make progress against wonder guards with taunt + spikes. And its power is still nothing to scoff at. With sky plate Owing ohkoing most sweepers besides certain resists.

And finally, checks and counters:
-- belly drum priority sweepers. With a lack of fakespeed, the team struggles immensely to belly drum e-speed or other priority moves. Tina can semi-check them with chatter, but that is shaky.
-- Shadow tag choice trick. I already mentioned this when talking about audino, but shadow tag mons tricking choice items really hurts the team. Deo-a has no way to avoid it, and becomes useless once tricked. Audino doesn't like getting tricked either, but having a switch in groudon does help.
-- Protean/wonder guard Latios-mega. Non teravolt Latios sets are a real struggle for this team, as if lati has the right coverage, there isn't much the rest of the team can do to stop it.

if you have any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[aerobee]

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ RBY Pure Hackmons (No Pre-Status)‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

​

Leaders/Council: aerobee

Sample Teams:

Electrode + 5 Chansey by aerobee


2 Electrode + 2 Gengar + 2 Aerodactyl by aerobee


Electrode + 2 Gengar + 3 Aerodactyl by aerobee

Resources:
Viability Rankings
Setpedia

FAQ:
Q: Is this Custom Game?
A: No. Custom Game is based on what the Pokémon Showdown teambuilder is capable of, while Hackmons is based around what is hackable in game and usable in local battles. Specifically, in Hackmons you are limited to a maximum level of 100, a maximum of 4 moves, a maximum of 6 Pokemon, and Showdown specific moves and abilities such as Paleo Wave and Rebound are unusable, while in Custom Game there is a max level of 9999, the maximum number of moves is 24, the maximum number of Pokémon is 24, future generation Pokémon/items/Abilities/moves are usable, and Showdown specific moves and abilities are usable.

Q: Why is there an Endless Battle Clause?
A: Endless Battle Clause exists in every Showdown metagame to prevent battles taking too long and lagging the server. This acts similar to the in-game timer system, but more loose, meaning battles can extend further with Endless Battle Clause than it could with in-game timer.

Q: How do Double moves interact?
A: In Generation 1, running two copies of the same move on the same Pokémon allows usage of the move indefinitely. The second moveslot copy is usable even after the first moveslot runs out of PP, and its PP does not decrease.

Q: Why isn't this generation played with pre-status?
A: Pre-status hasn't been implemented on PS yet, as due to being difficult to implement and there being only a limited range of formats that would benefit from its implementation it isn't considered a high priority. There are plans to implement pre-status in the future, though!

Q: Is this post a joke?
A: Yes!

 

[Ransei]

Here's a fun VR I made in 2019. It miiiiiiiight hold up. Do you think so?

RBY Hackmons Viability Rankings

Use

Electrode

Hi. This is Electrode. Use it.

Guide to use Electrode

This Pokemon puts the entire meta to sleep then beats them with damaging moves.

Turn 1: Use Spore
Turn 2: Use Agility. Never use Agility again for the rest of the game.
Turn ???: Only use Spore again after the opponent wakes up.
profit

Do Not Use

Everything Else

Every other Pokemon is unviable, including Mewtwo. Do not use anyone else unless you can prove they can beat Electrode.

 

[aerobee]

Here's a fun VR I made in 2019. It miiiiiiiight hold up. Do you think so?

RBY Hackmons Viability Rankings

Use

Electrode

Hi. This is Electrode. Use it.

Guide to use Electrode

This Pokemon puts the entire meta to sleep then beats them with damaging moves.

Turn 1: Use Spore
Turn 2: Use Agility. Never use Agility again for the rest of the game.
Turn ???: Only use Spore again after the opponent wakes up.
profit

Do Not Use

Everything Else

Every other Pokemon is unviable, including Mewtwo. Do not use anyone else unless you can prove they can beat Electrode.

Nominating Chansey, Gengar, and Aerodactyl to an intermediate rank between Use and Do Not Use (Usable?). Chansey mathematically has the best odds of dealing with Night Shade/Seismic Toss Electrode due to having the highest HP in the game, and Gengar and Aerodactyl are each immune to one OHKO move type, which is relevant because on average against viable Pokemon OHKO moves are more consistent options than Night Shade/Seismic Toss and prolonging the game is inherently risky because of the 1/256 glitch. Aerodactyl may not have as high a base HP as Gyarados (the highest-HP Flying-type in Gen 1) but both are 4HKOed by Night Shade/Seismic Toss regardless so the HP difference is irrelevant. All three Pokemon are preferable to Electrode in non-lead slots due to the former not possessing qualities that make it a relatively good pick against foes with boosted Speed.

 

[Shay's Fate]

Honestly, I don't we should be talking about RBY Hackmons (without pre-status) because after turn 1 the game is pretty much decided unless one of these things happens.

1) The Electrode that lost the speedtie wakes up instantly, leading to a second Spore speed-tie
2) The Electrode that won the speedtie eventually gets a 1/256 Spore miss, meaning that it can get Spored
3) One of the players chokes

 

[aerobee]

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ RBY Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎
copy of old Viability Rankings here

​

Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is one of the many resources made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in alphabetical order. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokémon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are reasonable. Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokémon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be closer to fact than subjective opinions.

​

Electrode Rank
Electrode

S Rank
Aerodactyl
Chansey
Gengar

 

[aerobee]

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ RBY Pure Hackmons Setpedia ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

​

Welcome to the Generation 1 Hackmons Setpedia. Sets that are considered viable on each Pokemon are listed. Feel free to request set additions/removals, but make sure you have good reasoning to back your suggestions. Thanks to Sheeplol for letting me steal their draft.


Electrode Rank

Electrode

Electrode
- Spore
- Agility
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure / Spore
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure

S Rank

Aerodactyl

Aerodactyl
- Spore
- Agility
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure / Spore / High Jump Kick / Drill Peck
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure

Chansey

Chansey
- Spore
- Agility
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure / Spore
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure

Gengar

Gengar
- Spore
- Agility
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure / Spore
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss / Horn Drill / Fissure

 

[Sheeplol]

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ BW1 Pure Hackmons‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

Leaders/Council: Sheeplol (Leader), blahpy, assaultdestiny

Sample Teams:

Rhyperior Sand Balance By manu 11
(Note that this team was made for BW2 Pure Hackmons but remains legal in BW1.)


Gira-O Hazard Stack By Sheeplol


Shadow Tag Deo-S Balance By NToTheN

Resources:
None Yet!

FAQ:

Q: Why is there an Endless Battle Clause?
A: Endless Battle Clause exists in every Showdown metagame to prevent battles taking too long and lagging the server. This acts similar to the in-game timer system, but more loose, meaning battles can extend further with Endless Battle Clause than it could with in-game timer.

Q: What makes this different from BW2 Pure Hackmons?
A: While Pokestar mons, Kyurem formes and Therian formes are in BW2 Pure Hackmons, none of them are present in BW1.

Q: Where is this playable?
A: You can PM someone using this challenge code:
/challenge [Gen 5] Ubers @@@ !Obtainable, !Sleep Clause Mod, !Species Clause, !Evasion Moves Clause, !Evasion Items Clause, !OHKO Clause, !Moody Clause, -Future, -Past, -CAP, -Custom, -Kyurem-Black, -Kyurem-White, -Landorus-Therian, -Thundurus-Therian, -Tornadus-Therian, -Pokestar Black Belt, -Pokestar Black Door, -Pokestar Brycen Man, -Pokestar F00, -Pokestar F002, -Pokestar Giant, -Pokestar Humanoid, -Pokestar Monster, -Pokestar MT, -Pokestar MT2, -Pokestar Smeargle, -Pokestar Spirit, -Pokestar Transport, -Pokestar UFO, -Pokestar White Door

 

[aerobee]

Gen 8 Pure Hackmons VR Update!


This update's very comprehensive since Gen 8 is now an old gen and therefore won't be played enough to warrant an update for a very long time. The C subranks were merged into one C rank due to the centralized nature of the metagame. My personal reasoning for some movements can be accessed here, but I didn't cover everything in detail so feel free to ask if you're confused by (an) unexpected movement(s).


RISES:

Eiscue: B+ to A-
Articuno: UR to B
Urshifu: UR to B
Zapdos: UR to B
Zarude: C- to B-
Ho-Oh: UR to B-
Indeedee: UR to B-
Celesteela: UR to C
Crobat: UR to C
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen: UR to C
Imposter: UR to C
Skarmory: UR to C
Zamazenta-Crowned: UR to C
Zeraora: UR to C


DROPS:

Regieleki: S+ to S
Cramorant-Gorging: S to S-
Zacian-Crowned: S- to A+
Calyrex-Shadow: A+ to A-
Regigigas: A- to B+
Giratina-Origin: A to B
Grimmsnarl: A- to B
Rayquaza: B to B-
Aegislash: A- to C
Obstagoon: A- to C
Corviknight: B to C
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: B to C
Mewtwo: B- to C
Mimikyu: B- to C
Reshiram: B- to C
Dragapult: C+ to C
Doublade: A- to UR
Drapion: B to UR
Gyarados: C+ to UR
Braviary: C to UR
Gourgeist-Super: C to UR
Hydreigon: C- to UR
Krookodile: C- to UR


Link to the VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-gen-hackmons-megathread.3649618/post-9594285

 

[Civilsim]

I Made a team that almost forces invinite battles if the opponent is really bad. Great for annoying low ladder players lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6purehackmons-1980602629
https://pokepast.es/8d937ae5174a6db4

Here is an updated version of the team that works a little bit better
https://pokepast.es/f1c6d321c9a92f3f

 

[Civilsim]

Rate My Team But Also Sample Team Submission

I've been experimenting with this Gen 6 Pure Hackmons team, and I'd appreciate some feedback. I've tried to incorporate a mix of abilities and moves to create a team that can disrupt opponents effectively. Here's the breakdown of the team:


Mega Gyarados:

Gyarados-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Crabhammer
- King's Shield
- Aromatherapy

The role of Gyarados on this team is primarily supportive. With King's Shield, it can weaken foes and subsequently remove hazards. I opted for Crabhammer as the offensive move because it guarantees an OHKO against Primal Groudon unless it has full physical defense and HP. Toxic Heal provides reliable recovery and synergizes well with King's Shield. The Toxic Orb also proves effective in preventing foes from afflicting Gyarados with status conditions. Holding the Toxic Orb makes foes less inclined to try tricking Choice Scarfs onto it, which it would have been quite susceptible to previously.


Registeel

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Parting Shot

Registeel is my primary answer to sweepers other than Primal Groudon. Its immense bulk, combined with its favorable typing, allows it to switch in on most sweepers and use Perish Song. Registeel is an effective counter to Giratina, capable of bouncing spores or glares back and setting up Stealth Rocks or parting shot out to avoid taking curse damage. It can also serve as a pivot to switch to Rayquaza as opponents switch their hazard setter out. Overall, I would definitely rank Registeel as one of the most important members of the team.


Regigigas

Regigigas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Extreme Speed
- Spikes
- Fake Out

Regigigas has two main roles on this team. It can be used to trap support Pokemon and taunt them, forcing them to struggle while it sets up spikes. Its secondary role is to revenge chip/kill Pokemon attempting to sweep. After the defense drop from Shell Smash, the combination of Fake Out and Extreme Speed will either knock it out or deal significant damage. Additionally, Regigigas contributes to the team's overall synergy by providing pressure on the opponent through its trapping capabilities. This can disrupt their strategy and open up opportunities for other team members to capitalize on weakened foes.


Xernias

Xerneas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Moonblast

Xerneas has very good stats in general. Its high HP stat allows it to provide Wish support to the rest of the team and synergizes well with Baton Pass. It's slow enough to underspeed most Pokemon in the metagame and can pass subs on a switch. Moonblast serves as Xerneas's offensive option, providing crucial coverage against threats that the team might otherwise struggle with. Notably, it deals withthe previous weakness to Pokemon like Mega Latios, enhancing the team's overall coverage.


Mega Sableye

Sableye-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Wonder Guard
Level: 2
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psycho Shift
- Pain Split
- Curse
- Baton Pass

Mega Sableye is the second Wonder Guard Pokémon on the team. With passive, unblockable damage options from Curse, and the ability to heal back to full while taking sizable chunks out of my opponent's HP with Pain Split, Sableye can slowly chip down an entire team. Sableye takes advantage of having a Substitute passed to it so it can scout for Fairy moves. Additionally, it has Baton Pass to switch out while keeping the Substitute as the opponent switches. Being at level 2 allows it to almost always heal back to full with Pain Split and take minimal damage from being burned or switching into hazards.


Mega Rayquaza

Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Trick
- Parting Shot


Mega Rayquaza is definitely the most enjoyable member of the team to use. Being Jolly in nature, it reaches a favorable speed tier, allowing it to outspeed nearly everything that isn't Jolly or Timid. Choice Banded Dragon Ascent can decimate unprepared teams and secure an early leads. Passing Substitutes or using Parting Shot into Rayquaza enables you to land powerful Choice Banded Dragon Ascents, dealing heavy damage and applying significant pressure to your opponents. Mega Rayquaza is versatile, capable of tricking a Choice Band onto supporting Pokemon. It can strategically use Parting Shot when you anticipate your opponent to switch to a counter, maintaining momentum and putting additional pressure on your adversary.​

Checks and Counters

• Huge Power Pokemon This team does not really have any great answers to huge power users such as Mega Mewtwo X with a lot of coverage.
• Trapping Combined With Taunt The combination of taunt and trapping abilities can apply a lot of pressure toa lot of the team in general but especially regigigas because it underspeeds most things trying to taunt it and it is vulnerable to trapping.
• Pixilate Pokemon Pokemon like Mega Diancie with Pixelate can apply huge amounts of pressure with priority Fairy moves. There are three Fairy-weak Pokemon on my team, one of which is a Wonder Guard user, and only one immunity and one resistance.

Here is the Pokepaste for the Team
https://pokepast.es/66d26b5a78928031

 

[NToTheN]

Rate My Team But Also Sample Team Submission
View attachment 571520View attachment 571521View attachment 571522View attachment 571523View attachment 571524View attachment 571525
I've been experimenting with this Gen 6 Pure Hackmons team, and I'd appreciate some feedback. I've tried to incorporate a mix of abilities and moves to create a team that can disrupt opponents effectively. Here's the breakdown of the team:


Mega Gyarados:
View attachment 571520
Gyarados-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Crabhammer
- King's Shield
- Aromatherapy

The role of Gyarados on this team is primarily supportive. With King's Shield, it can weaken foes and subsequently remove hazards. I opted for Crabhammer as the offensive move because it guarantees an OHKO against Primal Groudon unless it has full physical defense and HP. Toxic Heal provides reliable recovery and synergizes well with King's Shield. The Toxic Orb also proves effective in preventing foes from afflicting Gyarados with status conditions. Holding the Toxic Orb makes foes less inclined to try tricking Choice Scarfs onto it, which it would have been quite susceptible to previously.


Registeel
View attachment 571521
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Parting Shot

Registeel is my primary answer to sweepers other than Primal Groudon. Its immense bulk, combined with its favorable typing, allows it to switch in on most sweepers and use Perish Song. Registeel is an effective counter to Giratina, capable of bouncing spores or glares back and setting up Stealth Rocks or parting shot out to avoid taking curse damage. It can also serve as a pivot to switch to Rayquaza as opponents switch their hazard setter out. Overall, I would definitely rank Registeel as one of the most important members of the team.


Regigigas
View attachment 571522
Regigigas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Extreme Speed
- Spikes
- Fake Out

Regigigas has two main roles on this team. It can be used to trap support Pokemon and taunt them, forcing them to struggle while it sets up spikes. Its secondary role is to revenge chip/kill Pokemon attempting to sweep. After the defense drop from Shell Smash, the combination of Fake Out and Extreme Speed will either knock it out or deal significant damage. Additionally, Regigigas contributes to the team's overall synergy by providing pressure on the opponent through its trapping capabilities. This can disrupt their strategy and open up opportunities for other team members to capitalize on weakened foes.


Xernias
View attachment 571523
Xerneas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Moonblast

Xerneas has very good stats in general. Its high HP stat allows it to provide Wish support to the rest of the team and synergizes well with Baton Pass. It's slow enough to underspeed most Pokemon in the metagame and can pass subs on a switch. Moonblast serves as Xerneas's offensive option, providing crucial coverage against threats that the team might otherwise struggle with. Notably, it deals withthe previous weakness to Pokemon like Mega Latios, enhancing the team's overall coverage.


Mega Sableye
View attachment 571524
Sableye-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Wonder Guard
Level: 2
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psycho Shift
- Pain Split
- Curse
- Baton Pass

Mega Sableye is the second Wonder Guard Pokémon on the team. With passive, unblockable damage options from Curse, and the ability to heal back to full while taking sizable chunks out of my opponent's HP with Pain Split, Sableye can slowly chip down an entire team. Sableye takes advantage of having a Substitute passed to it so it can scout for Fairy moves. Additionally, it has Baton Pass to switch out while keeping the Substitute as the opponent switches. Being at level 2 allows it to almost always heal back to full with Pain Split and take minimal damage from being burned or switching into hazards.


Mega Rayquaza
View attachment 571525
Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Trick
- Parting Shot


Mega Rayquaza is definitely the most enjoyable member of the team to use. Being Jolly in nature, it reaches a favorable speed tier, allowing it to outspeed nearly everything that isn't Jolly or Timid. Choice Banded Dragon Ascent can decimate unprepared teams and secure an early leads. Passing Substitutes or using Parting Shot into Rayquaza enables you to land powerful Choice Banded Dragon Ascents, dealing heavy damage and applying significant pressure to your opponents. Mega Rayquaza is versatile, capable of tricking a Choice Band onto supporting Pokemon. It can strategically use Parting Shot when you anticipate your opponent to switch to a counter, maintaining momentum and putting additional pressure on your adversary.​

Checks and Counters

• Huge Power Pokemon This team does not really have any great answers to huge power users such as Mega Mewtwo X with a lot of coverage.
• Trapping Combined With Taunt The combination of taunt and trapping abilities can apply a lot of pressure toa lot of the team in general but especially regigigas because it underspeeds most things trying to taunt it and it is vulnerable to trapping.
• Pixilate Pokemon Pokemon like Mega Diancie with Pixelate can apply huge amounts of pressure with priority Fairy moves. There are three Fairy-weak Pokemon on my team, one of which is a Wonder Guard user, and only one immunity and one resistance.

Here is the Pokepaste for the Team
https://pokepast.es/66d26b5a78928031

This is a really cool team! Since its an RMT, I'd be happy to give some advice on things I'd change or do differently. I'll go in order of the Pokemon listed.

Gyarados-Mega
- Firstly, replace Crabhammer with Foul Play. It still OHKOes a boosted Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza:
+2 252+ Atk Gyarados-Mega Foul Play vs. -1 240 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 433-511 (107.9 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0- Atk Gyarados-Mega Foul Play vs. -1 64 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 462-544 (125.8 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It also had the benefit of ignoring potential King's Shield drops from Primal Groudon.

- Potentially rework EVs. This is optional, but slight optimizations can be made based on what you want to live. If you prefer checking Primal Groudon, or certain Mega Rayquaza variants, you could tweak the EV spread to suit that role better. Below, I have given a table of some EV spreads worth looking into.

Oh, and be sure to minimize the speed on Mega Gyarados. This is to prevent some situations where you click Aromatherapy and gets hit with status in the same turn. Realistically it'll almost never happen but eh there's no relevant cost as far as I'm aware so you might as well make the tiny change if it could potentially help.

- You could also alter the moveset a bit. Aromatherapy and Poison Heal kind of have an anti-synergy to them. Defog could also not be ideal, as Mega Gyarados cannot be switched in to a general attack as well as most Wonder Guard clerics can, meaning it will realistically be more difficult to remove hazards. My suggestion is to remove Mega Sableye and replace it with a more traditional Wonder Guard cleric to free up these moveslots, so you can run things like Taunt, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Roost, or other support moves. Roost in particular would be very nice, since it lets Mega Gyarados not get worn down over time. It's a good check to Primal Groudon for example, but it needs to heal back to full every time in order to do so. Roost helps with that, so you aren't completely reliant on Poison Heal recovery.

Registeel
Overall, this Pokemon does pretty well as the defensive backbone of the team from the few games I've played with it. I was expecting it to be wors,e but it actually ended up working quite well, especially with Mega Gyarados to help with its weakness to Primal Groudon. I also think that Shed Shell would be a better item then Leftovers, here. Registeel is weak to a lot of common moves that Shadow Tag Pokemon Run, like Searing Shot/V-Create, Thousand Arrows, Close Combat, etc. And as mentioned, Registeel is kind of the defensive backbone of the team. If it gets taken out, then the team is on a very short timer, since it isn't exactly offense-oriented itself. You could also consider replacing Perish Song for something like Toxic. The only time I'd typically prefer Perish Song is when I'm playing against substitute, but the team already has decent answers for that. You could also use Whirlwind on Registeel over Stealth Rock, and move that to Xerneas

Regigigas
I only have two things to say. Firstly, I'd recommend running Silk Scarf or Life Orb instead of Safety Goggles. You have a Magic Bounce user and two Pokemon who are immune to status because of their Posion/Burn. You have plenty of insurance against Spore users, and Shadow Tag Regigigas desperately needs Silk Scarf or Life Orb in order to actually trap some Pokemon. Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo X, and even some variants of Mega Mewtwo Y need boosting items in order for you to KO them from full, which is very important. Additionally, the EV spread is wonky. It's better invest in max HP than to split up 128 in Def and 128 in SpDef.

Xerneas
- First, I think Safety Goggles should be changed out for Leftovers, for similar reasoning to Regigigas. Xerneas really appreciates the Leftovers recovery when it has Substitute.

- Wish is interesting, but I personally found it difficult to use along with sub. When opponents are very focused on countering, preparing for, and positioning around your substitute passing, I find it difficult to find turns to use Wish effectively, especially since Xerneas has no protection move. I personally think moves like Toxic Spikes, Minimize, Shell Smash, Stealth Rock, Taunt, or Spore would work very well. Xerneas' forth moveslot is very flexible.

- More EV spread tuning. Once again optional, but its worth looking into other EV spreads to help optimize your matchups against certain Pokemon. Here's another spreadsheet (the + next to a move means the Pokemon using that move has a nature that boosts that attack):

Unfortunately, this spreadsheet does not have information on the damage that Xerneas can do back to these Pokemon with Moonblast. Maybe I'll make a more comprehensive sheet in the future.

Sableye-Mega
I don't think this Pokemon works very well on this team, because it forces other Pokemon (specifically Mega Gyarados) to run moves they kinda don't want to. Additionally, it only adds to the Fairy weaknesses on the team which makes things like Diancie, Xerneas, and the occasional Mega Gardevoir very threatening. I think replacing it with a more traditional cleric to free up moves on Mega Gyarados and potentially Registeel and Xerneas would be nice. If you want to use Wish, Pokemon like Slaking, Blissey, or Primal Kyogre would work well. I reccomend Kyogre because it does the best job of staving off your weakness to coverage spam pokemon like Huge Power MMX or Protean Mega Latios.

Rayquaza-Mega
- Adamant Nature. There are a trillion rolls where you prefer Adamant over Jolly. Helps for Mega Gyarados, Xerneas, Giratina ... just use Adamant

- Maybe add something to hit Giratina. Trick does a great job of dealing with it, but comes with the obvious drawback of, well .... losing your Choice Band. Which kinda sucks. Something like Spacial Rend over Parting Shot or Extreme Speed could work. If you want to get really spicy, run Trick + Shell Smash so you can boost your stats after you neutralize Giratina. No idea how it would perform since I haven't used it, but it's an interesting idea to try out.

Overall, I like this team! It's pretty unique and uses some sets you don't see super often, which I enjoy. It ended up being better than I expected when I went to test it out, which was a pleasant surprise. Hopefully my advice can help make it even better!

 

[Civilsim]

This is a really cool team! Since its an RMT, I'd be happy to give some advice on things I'd change or do differently. I'll go in order of the Pokemon listed.

Gyarados-Mega
- Firstly, replace Crabhammer with Foul Play. It still OHKOes a boosted Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza:
+2 252+ Atk Gyarados-Mega Foul Play vs. -1 240 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 433-511 (107.9 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0- Atk Gyarados-Mega Foul Play vs. -1 64 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 462-544 (125.8 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It also had the benefit of ignoring potential King's Shield drops from Primal Groudon.

- Potentially rework EVs. This is optional, but slight optimizations can be made based on what you want to live. If you prefer checking Primal Groudon, or certain Mega Rayquaza variants, you could tweak the EV spread to suit that role better. Below, I have given a table of some EV spreads worth looking into.

View attachment 571721
Oh, and be sure to minimize the speed on Mega Gyarados. This is to prevent some situations where you click Aromatherapy and gets hit with status in the same turn. Realistically it'll almost never happen but eh there's no relevant cost as far as I'm aware so you might as well make the tiny change if it could potentially help.

- You could also alter the moveset a bit. Aromatherapy and Poison Heal kind of have an anti-synergy to them. Defog could also not be ideal, as Mega Gyarados cannot be switched in to a general attack as well as most Wonder Guard clerics can, meaning it will realistically be more difficult to remove hazards. My suggestion is to remove Mega Sableye and replace it with a more traditional Wonder Guard cleric to free up these moveslots, so you can run things like Taunt, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Roost, or other support moves. Roost in particular would be very nice, since it lets Mega Gyarados not get worn down over time. It's a good check to Primal Groudon for example, but it needs to heal back to full every time in order to do so. Roost helps with that, so you aren't completely reliant on Poison Heal recovery.

Registeel
Overall, this Pokemon does pretty well as the defensive backbone of the team from the few games I've played with it. I was expecting it to be wors,e but it actually ended up working quite well, especially with Mega Gyarados to help with its weakness to Primal Groudon. I also think that Shed Shell would be a better item then Leftovers, here. Registeel is weak to a lot of common moves that Shadow Tag Pokemon Run, like Searing Shot/V-Create, Thousand Arrows, Close Combat, etc. And as mentioned, Registeel is kind of the defensive backbone of the team. If it gets taken out, then the team is on a very short timer, since it isn't exactly offense-oriented itself. You could also consider replacing Perish Song for something like Toxic. The only time I'd typically prefer Perish Song is when I'm playing against substitute, but the team already has decent answers for that. You could also use Whirlwind on Registeel over Stealth Rock, and move that to Xerneas

Regigigas
I only have two things to say. Firstly, I'd recommend running Silk Scarf or Life Orb instead of Safety Goggles. You have a Magic Bounce user and two Pokemon who are immune to status because of their Posion/Burn. You have plenty of insurance against Spore users, and Shadow Tag Regigigas desperately needs Silk Scarf or Life Orb in order to actually trap some Pokemon. Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo X, and even some variants of Mega Mewtwo Y need boosting items in order for you to KO them from full, which is very important. Additionally, the EV spread is wonky. It's better invest in max HP than to split up 128 in Def and 128 in SpDef.

Xerneas
- First, I think Safety Goggles should be changed out for Leftovers, for similar reasoning to Regigigas. Xerneas really appreciates the Leftovers recovery when it has Substitute.

- Wish is interesting, but I personally found it difficult to use along with sub. When opponents are very focused on countering, preparing for, and positioning around your substitute passing, I find it difficult to find turns to use Wish effectively, especially since Xerneas has no protection move. I personally think moves like Toxic Spikes, Minimize, Shell Smash, Stealth Rock, Taunt, or Spore would work very well. Xerneas' forth moveslot is very flexible.

- More EV spread tuning. Once again optional, but its worth looking into other EV spreads to help optimize your matchups against certain Pokemon. Here's another spreadsheet (the + next to a move means the Pokemon using that move has a nature that boosts that attack):
View attachment 571937

Unfortunately, this spreadsheet does not have information on the damage that Xerneas can do back to these Pokemon with Moonblast. Maybe I'll make a more comprehensive sheet in the future.

Sableye-Mega
I don't think this Pokemon works very well on this team, because it forces other Pokemon (specifically Mega Gyarados) to run moves they kinda don't want to. Additionally, it only adds to the Fairy weaknesses on the team which makes things like Diancie, Xerneas, and the occasional Mega Gardevoir very threatening. I think replacing it with a more traditional cleric to free up moves on Mega Gyarados and potentially Registeel and Xerneas would be nice. If you want to use Wish, Pokemon like Slaking, Blissey, or Primal Kyogre would work well. I reccomend Kyogre because it does the best job of staving off your weakness to coverage spam pokemon like Huge Power MMX or Protean Mega Latios.

Rayquaza-Mega
- Adamant Nature. There are a trillion rolls where you prefer Adamant over Jolly. Helps for Mega Gyarados, Xerneas, Giratina ... just use Adamant

- Maybe add something to hit Giratina. Trick does a great job of dealing with it, but comes with the obvious drawback of, well .... losing your Choice Band. Which kinda sucks. Something like Spacial Rend over Parting Shot or Extreme Speed could work. If you want to get really spicy, run Trick + Shell Smash so you can boost your stats after you neutralize Giratina. No idea how it would perform since I haven't used it, but it's an interesting idea to try out.

Overall, I like this team! It's pretty unique and uses some sets you don't see super often, which I enjoy. It ended up being better than I expected when I went to test it out, which was a pleasant surprise. Hopefully my advice can help make it even better!

Thank you for your suggestions. I think that I will change most of the sets. As you could probably tell, I don't really know when to run more HP EVs and when to run more Def/SpDef EVs. The reason I chose to run more Def/SpDef EVs on my team is that I wanted to heal more from Wish passing. I think that you made a good point with replacing Sableye. The higher I got on the ladder, the less work Sableye was putting in, and getting killed by random Play Roughs or Moonblasts can be very annoying. I also really liked your Shell Smash on Rayquaza suggestion. I chose to run it instead of Parting Shot because I didn't really use it very often.

 

[sussyamongusdrip]

Gen 6 Sample Team Submission:Dual Status Absorber Stall
https://pokepast.es/4f69a22cde37b9c7
I've been trying to prove that a hard stall team could work in 6PH for a while now, and I think this is the best one I've built so far. It does well against most teams, especially common balance structures with 1 or 2 Mold Breakers, and it reached a ladder peak of #3 on the ladder with 1721 elo and a 91.4 GXE.

(proof of ladder peak)
Unlike most PH stall teams, this team runs no STAG rkillers or Aromatherapy, but instead aims to deal with mold sweepers with sleep moves through Poison Heal Mega Gyarados and heavy chip damage through hazards and status conditions. Most molds lack any way to heal themselves, making them very vulnerable to being worn down throughout the course of a game; this discourages them from switching in to attempt to break through the team. Oblivion Wing Rayquaza is also dealt with through stacking the checks of Registeel, Giratina, and Pheal Gyarados all on one team. Aromatherapy is not run because it would interfere with the two status absorbers the team is built around, and both absorbers combined with Registeel's Magic Bounce, Landorus' Taunt, and Audino's Magic Coat do well enough to fend off statuses in most matchups anyways. I am nominating this team for a sample team because the samples notably lack any stall structures, making this team a representation of an underrepresented playstyle.
The Team
Giratina
Your standard Prankster Giratina with Glare and Encore to shut down offensive mons. It blanket checks many Mold Breakers, and dissaudes them from setting up, important for a team without a revenge killer. Grieseous Orb helps block Trick from choice molds and TrickScarf users, and helps it take less damage from random Knock Offs. It still needs to watch out for Pursuit Gyarados, however.
Registeel
Magic Bounce Registeel helps deal with Taunts and hazards that would otherwise be effective ways to break stall, and helps wall a lot of threats with its Steel typing. Atespeeds and Gale Wings Rayquazas lacking coverage like Sacred Fire are completely shut down by its resistances to Fairy, Normal, Flying, and Ice and ability to bounce back hazards. Special Mold Breaker wallbreakers Choice Specs Rayquaza and Shell Smash-less Mega Latios are also blocked by Registeel and discouraged from clicking their strong STAB moves in favor of weak anti-Steel type coverage when facing a mon that can switch out to Registeel. Stealth Rock provides hazard pressure for the team, useful with the switches Curse users force. Perish Song forces more switches, punishes Subpassers, and allows Registeel to serve as a backup Oblivion Wing Rayquaza check. Parting Shot allows Registeel to pivot and weaken threatening offensive mons and is preferred over Baton Pass due to not passing your own Perish Song. A specially defensive spread allows Registeel to take on threats such as Fairy types and some MMY, and it synergizes well with Registeel's Psystrike resist. Shed Shell is there to escape Shadow Tag MMX and Pdon.
Audino
Audino is important for compressing the roles of Wonder Guard and Mega Gengar check into one slot. Its typing does not stack weaknesses with any other members on the team, making it a good first Wonder Guard pick. Magic Coat+Chatter allows Audino to play mindgames with Smash Mega Gengar (and also sometimes Smash Pdon) and actually beat Mega Beedrill one-on-one. Chatter also deters Audino from being used as setup fodder, and Magic Coat allows Audino to further fend off hazards and status moves. A physically defensive spread is important to take less damage from Secret Sword, weak Poison or Steel coverage from non-Huge Powers, and Thousand Arrows. Shed Shell, Parting Shot, and Roost are Audino mainstays that need no explanation.
Gyarados
Poison Heal Gyarados is an underratted pick that can stop common Mold Breakers while threatening vast swaths of the metagame with toxic chip and Foul Play damage. In the long games that this stall team attempts to force, Gyarados' ability to quickly heal off chip damage without using PP is very valuable. King's Shield allows Gyarados to scout Choice pokemon and Huge Powers while lowering their attack, set up its Toxic Orb, and gain extra Poison Heal recovery. Psycho Shift threatens Magic Bounce users, Pokemon without healing moves, and Mold Breaker sweepers, forcing the opponent to use up valuable Aromatherapy PP. Slack Off allows Gyarados to recover from big hits and become basically unkillable against teams that are too passive. The EV spread allows Gyarados to be as specially bulky as possible while still living a +2 Pdon Thousand Arrows from full.
Sableye
Initially added in the team's development as the team shifted from semistall to hard stall, Level 2 Mega Sableye became a critical part of the team's structure due to its unique ability to easily win stall wars and apply lots of pressure to opposing clerics. It can come in on passive Pokemon and deal massive chip damage to whatever comes in through its choice of Curse, Psycho Shift with a Flame Orb, or Pain Split. The chip damage can often force Aromatherapy users to heal themselves to avoid getting KOed, preventing them from healing Sableye's burns, Giratina's paralysis and Gyarados' poisons. Even more pressure is put on Aromatherapy users through Aromatherapy only having 8 PP, forcing them to be extremely careful with their Aromatherapy usage or risk running out. Sableye's propensity to let Mold Breaker mons in is actually an advantage on this team, as it can wear them down with a move on the switch and then switch out to one of the many walls. Sableye is also crucial for beating Magic Bouncers. Defog is mostly filler, but more support against hazards always helps a stall team.
Landorus
Wonder Guard Landorus is an unorthodox pick, and I am running an unorthodox set that plays somewhat like a Mega Beedrill with its maximum speed investment. It is chosen over Mega Beedrill due to its typing being better at blocking non-Mold Breaker attacks and taking minimal damage from hazards. It helps the team wall Huge Powers and Protean/Parental Bond users due to its Ground/Flying typing; almost no single pokemon runs the coverage to hit Audino, Sableye, and Landorus all in one set. A 252 attack Thousand Arrows helps chip down Mold Breakers similarly to Sableye, and Spikes, Taunt, and Defog work together to keep control of the hazard game while shutting down most Wonder Guards not named Beedrill or Kyogre. Spikes are also important for further pressuring Mold Breakers. Leftovers allows Landorus to heal off slight chip damage to stay alive in the course of the game.

Checks and Counters
Magic Guard: The bane of any stall team. Though quite uncommon, facing Magic Guard users basically requires this team to resort to PP stalling aided by Landorus' Taunt. Ditto this for Poison Heal, but Poison Heal users can be broken through a bit faster through Mega Sableye and Giratina's Curse and Pain Split/Encore.
Special Mold Breaker Shell Smash Sweepers: Besides Oblivion Wing Mega Rayquaza, this team lacks any concrete answers to specially offensive Mold Breakers with Shell Smash, only having Mega Gyarados and Registeel as defensive checks and Giratina's Encore to block potential sweeps. Shell Smash Mega Diancie and Mega Gengar are able to greatly threaten the team through powerful STAB moves, Diancie's ability to threaten Mega Gyarados, and sleep, through they can be outplayed through good prediction and positioning. The weaker Xerneas and Dialga also sometimes pose problems, as well as the rare alternative boosting options of Tail Glow and Quiver Dance, which do not raise the damage of Gyarados' Foul Play.
Wish: Wish can heal critical chip damage from Mold Breakers and other Pokemon without recovery, but its two-turn nature and often extremely passive users often leads to the Mold Breaker and Wish user taking more chip damage than they can heal in the long run. Most Wish users can also be shut down by Landorus.
Imposter: Imposters can pose a problem with their infinite PP, and great care most be taken to prevent them from copying the stallbreaker Landorus without getting Taunted in the process.

 

[Civilsim]

Rate My Team But Also Sample Team Submission
View attachment 571520View attachment 571521View attachment 571522View attachment 571523View attachment 571524View attachment 571525
I've been experimenting with this Gen 6 Pure Hackmons team, and I'd appreciate some feedback. I've tried to incorporate a mix of abilities and moves to create a team that can disrupt opponents effectively. Here's the breakdown of the team:


Mega Gyarados:
View attachment 571520
Gyarados-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Crabhammer
- King's Shield
- Aromatherapy

The role of Gyarados on this team is primarily supportive. With King's Shield, it can weaken foes and subsequently remove hazards. I opted for Crabhammer as the offensive move because it guarantees an OHKO against Primal Groudon unless it has full physical defense and HP. Toxic Heal provides reliable recovery and synergizes well with King's Shield. The Toxic Orb also proves effective in preventing foes from afflicting Gyarados with status conditions. Holding the Toxic Orb makes foes less inclined to try tricking Choice Scarfs onto it, which it would have been quite susceptible to previously.


Registeel
View attachment 571521
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Parting Shot

Registeel is my primary answer to sweepers other than Primal Groudon. Its immense bulk, combined with its favorable typing, allows it to switch in on most sweepers and use Perish Song. Registeel is an effective counter to Giratina, capable of bouncing spores or glares back and setting up Stealth Rocks or parting shot out to avoid taking curse damage. It can also serve as a pivot to switch to Rayquaza as opponents switch their hazard setter out. Overall, I would definitely rank Registeel as one of the most important members of the team.


Regigigas
View attachment 571522
Regigigas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Extreme Speed
- Spikes
- Fake Out

Regigigas has two main roles on this team. It can be used to trap support Pokemon and taunt them, forcing them to struggle while it sets up spikes. Its secondary role is to revenge chip/kill Pokemon attempting to sweep. After the defense drop from Shell Smash, the combination of Fake Out and Extreme Speed will either knock it out or deal significant damage. Additionally, Regigigas contributes to the team's overall synergy by providing pressure on the opponent through its trapping capabilities. This can disrupt their strategy and open up opportunities for other team members to capitalize on weakened foes.


Xernias
View attachment 571523
Xerneas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Moonblast

Xerneas has very good stats in general. Its high HP stat allows it to provide Wish support to the rest of the team and synergizes well with Baton Pass. It's slow enough to underspeed most Pokemon in the metagame and can pass subs on a switch. Moonblast serves as Xerneas's offensive option, providing crucial coverage against threats that the team might otherwise struggle with. Notably, it deals withthe previous weakness to Pokemon like Mega Latios, enhancing the team's overall coverage.


Mega Sableye
View attachment 571524
Sableye-Mega @ Flame Orb
Ability: Wonder Guard
Level: 2
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psycho Shift
- Pain Split
- Curse
- Baton Pass

Mega Sableye is the second Wonder Guard Pokémon on the team. With passive, unblockable damage options from Curse, and the ability to heal back to full while taking sizable chunks out of my opponent's HP with Pain Split, Sableye can slowly chip down an entire team. Sableye takes advantage of having a Substitute passed to it so it can scout for Fairy moves. Additionally, it has Baton Pass to switch out while keeping the Substitute as the opponent switches. Being at level 2 allows it to almost always heal back to full with Pain Split and take minimal damage from being burned or switching into hazards.


Mega Rayquaza
View attachment 571525
Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Trick
- Parting Shot


Mega Rayquaza is definitely the most enjoyable member of the team to use. Being Jolly in nature, it reaches a favorable speed tier, allowing it to outspeed nearly everything that isn't Jolly or Timid. Choice Banded Dragon Ascent can decimate unprepared teams and secure an early leads. Passing Substitutes or using Parting Shot into Rayquaza enables you to land powerful Choice Banded Dragon Ascents, dealing heavy damage and applying significant pressure to your opponents. Mega Rayquaza is versatile, capable of tricking a Choice Band onto supporting Pokemon. It can strategically use Parting Shot when you anticipate your opponent to switch to a counter, maintaining momentum and putting additional pressure on your adversary.​

Checks and Counters

• Huge Power Pokemon This team does not really have any great answers to huge power users such as Mega Mewtwo X with a lot of coverage.
• Trapping Combined With Taunt The combination of taunt and trapping abilities can apply a lot of pressure toa lot of the team in general but especially regigigas because it underspeeds most things trying to taunt it and it is vulnerable to trapping.
• Pixilate Pokemon Pokemon like Mega Diancie with Pixelate can apply huge amounts of pressure with priority Fairy moves. There are three Fairy-weak Pokemon on my team, one of which is a Wonder Guard user, and only one immunity and one resistance.

Here is the Pokepaste for the Team
https://pokepast.es/66d26b5a78928031

Here is an updated version of the team
https://pokepast.es/67169449c1f47294

 

[lag=bad]

Gen 8 Pure Hackmons VR Update!


This update's very comprehensive since Gen 8 is now an old gen and therefore won't be played enough to warrant an update for a very long time. The C subranks were merged into one C rank due to the centralized nature of the metagame. My personal reasoning for some movements can be accessed here, but I didn't cover everything in detail so feel free to ask if you're confused by (an) unexpected movement(s).


RISES:

Eiscue: B+ to A-
Articuno: UR to B
Urshifu: UR to B
Zapdos: UR to B
Zarude: C- to B-
Ho-Oh: UR to B-
Indeedee: UR to B-
Celesteela: UR to C
Crobat: UR to C
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen: UR to C
Imposter: UR to C
Skarmory: UR to C
Zamazenta-Crowned: UR to C
Zeraora: UR to C


DROPS:

Regieleki: S+ to S
Cramorant-Gorging: S to S-
Zacian-Crowned: S- to A+
Calyrex-Shadow: A+ to A-
Regigigas: A- to B+
Giratina-Origin: A to B
Grimmsnarl: A- to B
Rayquaza: B to B-
Aegislash: A- to C
Obstagoon: A- to C
Corviknight: B to C
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: B to C
Mewtwo: B- to C
Mimikyu: B- to C
Reshiram: B- to C
Dragapult: C+ to C
Doublade: A- to UR
Drapion: B to UR
Gyarados: C+ to UR
Braviary: C to UR
Gourgeist-Super: C to UR
Hydreigon: C- to UR
Krookodile: C- to UR


Link to the VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-gen-hackmons-megathread.3649618/post-9594285

Please add Froslass to C/C-, it's a slightly worse spiritomb that dies to rocks, but it's still better than half the mons in C

 

[aerobee]

Please add Froslass to C/C-, it's a slightly worse spiritomb that dies to rocks, but it's still better than half the mons in C

This was actually brought up before our last update. You're right that, in a way, Froslass is comparable to Spiritomb – both are Horn Drill/Guillotine switch-ins – but Froslass blocking Sheer Cold is less relevant than Spiritomb blanking mono Psychic-type sweepers, and Spiritomb can function as a Wonder Guard switch-in against miscellaneous non-Neutralizing Gas attackers and ComaTalk mons running Circle Throw/Dragon Tail. Additionally, Froslass is uncomfortably frail (gets 2HKOed by Eternamax's Spectral Thief/97.5 BP Knock Off), and base 110 Speed would be noteworthy in most other metagame but not when it gets outsped by the best bulky mon in the game in Eternamax, overflow or not. Froslass does have theoretical positive qualities, but the VR council felt they weren't important enough that they warranted Froslass getting a place on the VR. There's probably still a chance though since, as you indicated, some mons in C aren't a whole lot better.

TL;DR Froslass is worse than C rank but not by much; adding it to the VR isn't an impossibility if a more compelling nomination is made.

also you need replays to nom mons in UR

 

[Ransei]

No Guard

No Guard Viability Rankings

S Rank
S+

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

S

Random No Guards

A

Deoxys-Speed

Lopunny-Mega

Here's what I've changed
I removed a bunch of Pokemon and replaced Mega Mewtwo X with Random No Guards. I think Mega Mewtwo X is an obscure enough No Guard for it to fill into that gap, however that wasn't the point. People have always said Deoxys Speed was the best No Guard Pokémon in Gen 6 because it is the fastest one. However, I am breaking the mold here to explain the reality of Deoxys-Speed. In all my 9 years seeing its face on Showdown, it has never actually been consistently great at its job in Gen 6 Hackmons. Every team has to hardcore prepare for Deoxys-Speed and the average team does it so well that in each high ladder game, Deoxys-Speed next to useless. The most it can do more often than not is force hazards up. That's about it. Very many random Pokemon can run No Guard out of nowhere and perform a better job at making progress, especially if they're bulkier Pokemon. I've recently brought a Zygarde to 1700s on ladder for example and it was actually not a bad No Guard at all. In fact I felt it was better than Deoxys-Speed even. Not that Zygarde is a top tier No Guard, but the standards for Deoxys-Speed should be really low. Random No Guards rank should return, because there's technically a bunch of Pokemon you can use with the ability to throw your opponents off, and if done right they'll get the job done more consistently than Deoxys-Speed ever can, because not many if any people would know it's a No Guard ahead of time. Not only that, because Deoxys-Speed is frail, it can be revenge killed a lot more easily, unlike a bulky No Guard. I think the idea of Deoxys-Speed being top notch was for if ever a game came down to No Guard Deoxys-Speed vs another No Guard, but this is where reality comes to play. Games just about never come down to this because of how well average teams can handle Deoxys-Speed. Deoxys finds it incredibly difficult to put in much progress against any good player more often than not. Aside from that, I've placed Mega Lopunny in the same rank because it performs a similar role as Deoxys-Speed, has similar flaws, and is a Pokemon one should always generally expect to be a No Guard.

Not gonna get super detailed because people will probably see where I'm coming from.

I think No Guard is better in Gen 6 EX Hackmons (all the 3DS metas) than everyone thinks. The issue is that the almost every single player who uses No Guard either doesn't use it properly or otherwise just doesn't utilize it past minimal potential. This is understandable when you also consider that almost no great player usually ever decides to use No Guard, unless they are trying to meme. To elaborate, Focus Sash Deoxys-Speed is far too overused as a No Guard user for what it's worth, and there are a significant chunk of Pokémon who will likely do the job of landing OHKOs better than it ever will.

The mentality behind using Deoxys-Speed is that it's the fastest No Guard, meaning it's supposed to be way better than everything else because it can outspeed everything and not get outsped by other No Guards right? On paper, yes, and this is even how it worked in Gen 5 due to the sleep counter reset and the lack of good hazard removal. In practice, there's a low chance No Guards worry about getting outsped by another No Guard in 6 EX, many alternative No Guard users run Choice Scarf if they feel their speed is too low, and others can even run set-up moves to mitigate around their speed issues. What average No Guards have to worry about instead is getting walled by dual Wonder Guards or otherwise getting fakespeeded and pursuit trapped. Deoxys-Speed has nothing around any of these, since it's frail and unable to hit hard. Bulkier Pokemon, such as Slaking, Arceus, and Cresselia can take advantage of this by eating up the attacks of revenge killers, and Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Rayquaza can sneak in coverage moves to attack certain Wonder Guards, then spam OHKO moves to win the game.

No Guard is underexplored right now because the majority of its users resort to the same No Guard Focus Sash Deoxys-Speed set that has been spammed since Gen 5, with Gastro Acid + Sheer Cold + Stealth Rock. Sets such as Choice Scarf Trick + Sheer Cold, Spider Web + Gastro Acid + Sheer Cold, or even Sheer Cold + 2 coverage moves can potentially be used on Pokemon to fish for successful KOs with this ability. Another thing alternate Pokemon have over Deoxys-Speed is the sheer surprise factor. Deoxys-Speed is the easiest Pokemon to play around in high level Gen 6 EX matches because once great players see it, they immediately know what to expect, and there's almost nothing the standardized Deoxys-Speed set has to answer dual Wonder Guards switching between each other. Almost any other given Pokemon with No Guard would be able to trip the player over and have them decide to switch over to a Pokemon they don't know can't answer the No Guard at first. For example, let's say you have a No Guard Xerneas on your team. Most upper ladder players will look at it and think it's Wonder Guard. Usually the play here is for the upper ladder player to switch into Primal Groudon if they have one, since Primal Groudon is a great switch-in for the standard Wonder Guard Xerneas set. Players with No Guard Xerneas could use this as an opportunity to hit Sheer Cold when they predict a Primal Groudon switch-in, then KO what was likely an important win-con for the opposing team.

the tl;dr here is that Focus Sash Deoxys-Speed is far too overused as a No Guard, and exploring other No Guard users with different sets may prove more consistent for the ability overall.

 

[berry]

Hope everyone is doing well.

I will be stepping down from Pure Hackmons room owner. My endless gratitude to Ransei for reviving my favorite format I have ever played and building such a robust community around such a niche set of tiers. My contributions to the Pure Hackmons community have dwindled immensely and, while I look forward to revisiting and playing more in the future, I can't (and haven't been able to) dedicate the time I need to the room.

To the newer players, thank you for keeping my and Ransei's passion project alive. It means more to me than you will ever know.

 

[lag=bad]

Hope everyone is doing well.

I will be stepping down from Pure Hackmons room owner. My endless gratitude to Ransei for reviving my favorite format I have ever played and building such a robust community around such a niche set of tiers. My contributions to the Pure Hackmons community have dwindled immensely and, while I look forward to revisiting and playing more in the future, I can't (and haven't been able to) dedicate the time I need to the room.

To the newer players, thank you for keeping my and Ransei's passion project alive. It means more to me than you will ever know.

As someone who is newer, I didn't spend as much time with you as a room leader. However, what little time I did have was great. You were always passionate about older gens, and clearly knew quite well what you were doing and talking about. You will absolutely be missed.

 

[Eyeos]

Hey guys I’m pretty new to hackmons and stuck at 1100 I want to know if you have any ways of improving this team besides saying something along the lines of “I think spore spam is bad cus googles”
https://pokepast.es/bdb51937fb738fff
I’d put a fancy moving pokemon here but idk how it works

 

[aerobee]

MY PERSONAL ORAS PH VIABILITY RANKINGS


I felt like making my own Viability Rankings since I haven't built for ORAS in a while now and, at this point, believe that there's little of note to explore (the metagame is essentially solved). While there may be changes in what works against the archetypes people are spamming at the moment, with this post I aim to express my opinion on what the VR should look like, from the effectiveness, splashability, and consistency of the Pokemon listed. I might revise this later if I feel like what I have now doesn't adequately reflect my thoughts.


S Rank
S+

Wonder Guard

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

Top Viability

Audino-Mega

Beedrill-Mega

Blissey

Kyogre-Primal

Slaking

Xerneas

Explanation

The tried and true top dogs. Good Wonder Guard typings as well as significant defensive utility against Mold Breaker users, offensive presence (Xerneas), and a combination of Speed and STAB U-turn (Mega Beedrill). Should be pretty obvious to people who've played Gen 6 PH extensively.

High Viability

Arceus

Deoxys-Attack

Escavalier

Gardevoir-Mega

Gengar-Mega

Manectric-Mega

Mewtwo-Mega-X

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Sableye-Mega

Scizor-Mega

Explanation

Most picks here should make sense as well. MMX is here because dual MMX structures really like running one Wonder Guard MMX in my opinion (since it provides unparalleled role compression – two passive Wonder Guard users isn't worth it, a Substitute + Baton Pass Wonder Guard means you forgo Imposter or Magic Bounce, and a Mold Breaker doesn't really provide value since you already depend on the Mewtwos to break. Skuntank, Mega Swampert, and maybe Cresselia could rise to here but I don't think they're worth running on as many teams as the Pokemon listed.

Medium Viability

Cresselia

Deoxys-Speed

Dusclops

Ferrothorn

Groudon-Primal

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Landorus

Landorus-Therian

Lucario-Mega

Ludicolo

Rotom-Fan

Skuntank

Swampert-Mega

Thundurus

Explanation

These are Pokemon that you either won't often have reasons to run specifically or require heavy concessions in the builder to fit into teams. I rate Ice-weak Wonder Guards (Landorus(-T)/Thundurus/Rotom-S) higher than most players since I also rate dual MMX higher, though they really do only fit on specific team structures if you want safety against No Guard users. As mentioned earlier, Mega Swampert, Cresselia, and Skuntank could be argued to be one step higher, though I think the former is the only one that's distinctly better than the other Wonder Guards here.

Lower-Middle Viability

Ho-Oh

Hoopa-Unbound

Kyurem-White

Mismagius

Sableye @ Sablenite

Shuckle

Talonflame

Thundurus-Therian

Volcarona

Explanation

Some Pokemon you'd have trouble justifying over something listed higher, though they do have distinct theoretical niches. The main difference from the actual VR is Kyurem-W/Sablenite Sableye being slightly higher (the latter's probably about as good as Level 100 WG Mega Sableye) – everything else is around the same. Talonflame's better than the other Pokemon here but is closer to them in viability than to the ones listed in Medium Viability in my opinion.

Low Viability

Alomomola

Ampharos @ Ampharosite

Blaziken-Mega

Cofagrigus

Dialga

Ditto

Galvantula

Genesect

Gengar @ Gengarite

Gyarados

Heatran

Lopunny-Mega

Mantine

Metagross-Mega

Ninjask

Palkia

Registeel

Reshiram

Slowbro-Mega

Skarmory

Venusaur-Mega

Volcanion

Wobbuffet

Explanation

Here we have a few more changes from the VR:

- Alomomola: Good Wish support and bulkier than Primal Kyogre on the physical side
- Ampharos @ Ampharosite: Not as bad as people make it out to be, besides Choice Scarf Primal Groudon/MMX, No Guard, and some fast Wonder Guards fast unboosted Pokemon aren't easy to justify and as a Mega stone user you have significantly less competition than most Wonder Guard users, which differentiate themselves with typing or significantly better stats for the role they try to play. Ampharos also has a pretty good Wonder Guard typing pre-Mega and a decent offensive typing afterwards.
- Cofagrigus: Dusclops but it can run an item. You'd only really run this over Cresselia for Ghost Curse and the lack of a Bug-type weakness – not to mention you need to make the right plays against Mega Gyarados, though Dusclops is similar in that regard.
- Heatran: Borderline UR but it gets STAB Lava Plume/Searing Shot and hits harder when compared to Registeel, and Steel STAB and a Flying resistance compared to Primal Groudon.
- Mantine: Better (non-stone) Gyarados if you don't care about pressuring frailer stuff with attacks.
- Ninjask: Outspeeds Mega Beedrill and Choice Scarf Primal Groudon. Also immune to Spikes (though that comes with being 4x weak to Stealth Rock).
- Slowbro-Mega: For all its faults Primal Groudon struggles to break through it without 3 turn sleep or something and it's a very slow pivot.
- Venusaur-Mega: Immune to Spore, absorbs Toxic Spikes, defensively checks Mold Breaker Xerneas/Mega Diancie, and has an okay Wonder Guard typing outside of No Guard.

At this point you're realistically never going to have a reason to run a Pokemon in particular over something else, but these are theoretically useful and some may even be the best Pokemon for a hyper-specific job. I might've missed a few so this section could be edited in the future.

Note

While the above list encompasses Pokemon I think are worth using (perform particular roles better than any other Pokemon to an appreciable degree), it does not include Pokemon that hold the same or similar set of weaknesses as an individual Pokemon on my VR. They're either fully outclassed or do not have strong enough merits to warrant me ranking them – while players may find success with them, they bring minimal to no value above the Pokémon ranked higher on these rankings, whether it's because of overall inferior typing for a Wonder Guard user or worse stats for the intended role. It's also worth noting that some Pokemon cannot run Wonder Guard effectively at all, even if no Pokemon directly outclasses them in every aspect.

Examples of Wonder Guard Pokemon with too minor a theoretical niche

Drapion (Better physical bulk than Skuntank, but is a worse slow pivot and Wish passer)

Houndoom-Mega (Will-O-Wisp-immune Shell Smash Wonder Guard, mostly outclassed by Xerneas, Mega Lucario, Mega Gardevoir, Primal Groudon, etc.)

Tentacruel (Toxic Spikes-absorbing Electric-weak Wonder Guard, mostly outclassed by Skuntank)

Examples of outclassed Wonder Guard Pokemon

Furret (Outclassed by Arceus and many other pure Normal-types)

Floette-Eternal (Outclassed by Xerneas & Audino-Mega)

Seismitoad (Outclassed by Swampert-Mega)

Surskit (Outclassed by Gyarados @ Gyaradosite)

Examples of ineffective Wonder Guard Pokemon

Giratina (Weak to Sheer Cold, Pursuit, and nearly every Huge Power Pokemon due to its Ghost/Dark/Fairy-type weaknesses. Lacks agency against Mold Breaker users without Prankster)

Rhyperior (Weak to Sheer Cold and nearly every Huge Power Pokemon due to its Fighting/Ground/Grass-type weaknesses. Lacks defensive utility against nearly every Mold Breaker sweeper)

Tyranitar-Mega (Weak to Fissure and nearly every Huge Power Pokemon due to its Fighting/Ground/Fairy/Steel/Grass/Bug-type weaknesses, Lacks defensive utility against nearly every Mold Breaker sweeper)

S

Giratina

Explanation

Best 'mon in the game.

S-
None!

A Rank
A+

Mewtwo-Mega-X

Rayquaza-Mega

Gyarados-Mega

Groudon-Primal

Chansey

Explanation

I still maintain that, when well played/built, Dual MMX is the most consistent archetype in the game – though it certainly has tougher matchups (Pixilate Diancie, Imposter, Choice item Shadow Tag, Level 2 Sableye, Wonder Guard Ground/Electric + Flying-types), these are either threats you can outplay and prepare for, or force you to relinquish matchups against Mold Breaker users. IMO the best dual MMX archetype is Huge Power MMX with Mach Punch/Wonder Guard MMX with Spikes/Eviolite Imposter/support Wonder Guard not weak to Huge Power MMX's moves/Magic Bounce Giratina or Aegislash (the latter beats most -ate users, soft checks Mold Breaker Mega Rayquaza, and can outspeed most Mega Gyarados)/Huge Power Mega Gyarados, due to these 6 supporting each other against as wide a variety of teams as possible. Shadow Tag MMX is also underrated these days, as it possesses less defensive utility than Primal Groudon, but it can outspeed a greater variety of foes with Choice Scarf and has much greater freedom to run Choice Band (which helps with a significant amount of KOs). 1 Huge Power MMX on its own is bad, please commit to dual MMX or 1~2 Mold Breaker structures.

Mold Breaker Mega Rayquaza uniquely exerts pressure in the builder, both because it's strong on its own and takes advantage of checks to other Mold Breaker users. Gale Wings sets are broken but, in return, leaves you struggling against prepared teams (or, in a tight spot, if Chatter RNG doesn't go your way). Mold Breaker Primal Groudon, while formidable, is less so than Mega Rayquaza at this point, and faces more competition than Huge Power Mega Gyarados does. Additionally, Shadow Tag sets are similar to Gale Wings Mega Rayquaza in that, while simple to use, they struggle against the likes of Magic Bounce Giratina, opposing Huge Power Mega Gyarados, and most Shell Smash Mold Breaker users in general. Both Choice item Mega Rayquaza/Primal Groudon are inherently risky due to the possibility of getting removed by Shadow Tag users.

Imposter is last because it should've been much lower than it has been ranked for a very long time. I actually think it's better than most other players do, but it's quite hard to fit, not playing the same role in most games, and can be prepped for by running Imposter-proofed Pokemon (even in PH, this usually doesn't entail making your team significantly worse into other threats).

A

Diancie-Mega

Slaking

Regigigas

Explanation

Mega Gengar is far less consistent than Mega Diancie and also faces more competition in the role it tries to play. No Guard is just less consistent than Huge Power users and, in my opinion, is mostly viable because one can afford to run Choice Scarf No Guard in a way that Huge Power users cannot emulate. Slaking and Regigigas are less splashable than Mega Diancie, with Huge Power sets also being prediction-reliant and missing out on Ghost-types, but they're closer in viability to Diancie than to Mega Latios in my opinion.

A-

Latios-Mega

No Guard

No Guard Viability Rankings

S Rank
Good

Aerodactyl-Mega

Deoxys-Speed

Mewtwo-Mega-X

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Niche

Alakazam-Mega

Arceus

Gengar-Mega

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Lopunny-Mega

Sceptile-Mega

Note

The above Pokemon are ranked with only their theoretical merits taken into consideration – in other words, ease of disguising/faking out isn't a factor. One can use No Guard Mega Manectric or Deoxys-Attack, as examples, to bait in answers to their respective Wonder Guard sets, though they don't possess strengths that warrant using them over other No Guard users for any other reason. These are called "random No Guards."

Explanation

Separated into two categories, Good and Niche, since I felt any further categorization wasn't necessary. Placements should be fairly obvious.

Explanation

Protean MMY is basically a faster, less bulky version of Protean Mega Latios, with a few differences – it needs to either run Life Orb for the same power or run a Plate to Imposter-proof (Mega Latios can run Hidden Power Fire/Ground without its breaking prowess hampered). In other words, Mega Latios is pretty much better unless you want the speed (you usually don't). Shell Smash Mold Breaker sets KO one mon then risk getting revenged, and have trouble with MMY's offensive typing, and Choice Specs gets revenged by Huge Power Mega Gyarados and Choice Scarf Shadow Tag users too easily – and doesn't KO everything it wants to from full to be consistent. Shadow Tag sets are also generally outdone by Primal Groudon or MMX. One could make the case that Mega Latios could drop to B+ rank, though.

No Guard's broken in theory, but struggles with -ate users and Shadow Tag Slaking/Regigigas; additionally, you can't reliably rely on Focus Sash No Guard users as speed control, and even Choice Scarf variants have to revenge kill since pivots can get slept by Dark Void/Spore. Huge Power users threaten Wonder Guard foes and does the whole KOing opponents thing nearly as well, while priority revenge killers are more effective speed control overall. Still good and honestly underrated though.

A reminder that after this point Pokemon are ranked alphabetically.

B Rank
B+

Aegislash

Explanation

Aegislash should be used on many, if not most dual MMX teams thanks to its ability to wall most -ate users while soft-checking Mold Breaker Mega Rayquaza, all while dissuading passive or Substitute + Baton Pass Pokemon from trying to set up. I know Aegislash isn't bulky enough to reliably come and stay in on what it wants to, but it's just bulky enough that it's a good temporary stopgap for faster-paced teams that can forgo Prankster Giratina, namely dual MMX. I originally had it at B rank, but realistically Aegislash has a better shot at being used since it lacks competition for the role it excels in (there are Magic Bounce Giratina and Registeel but -ate resistance/Shadow Tag immunity and Ghost Curse make Aegislash slightly better than the former and significantly better than the latter on dual MMX structures, in my opinion.

Arceus drops because, besides a Mold Breaker set comparable to the other B-ranks listed as well as an alright Shadow Tag set, it doesn't do anything of note to warrant use over Pokemon higher on the VR.

B

Arceus

Gengar-Mega

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Xerneas

Explanation

Arceus can theoretically do everything to an okay degree, but you don't really want to unless you want a bulky Imposter-proof(ed by Giratina) sweeper or Shadow Tag Perish Song trapper on your team. Mega Mewtwo Y's in the same boat, with Protean, Choice Specs Mold Breaker, and Shadow Tag the only sets you'd realistically want to run; Protean and Shadow Tag variants are mostly outdone by Pokemon higher on the VR, and Mold Breaker sets have trouble with opposing Pursuit trappers and struggle to KO common defensive Pokemon from full.

Mold Breaker Mega Gengar is scary if you don't prepare for it, but many offensively oriented teams innately do so and Gengar is a very matchup-heavy Pokemon – Pursuit and strong priority are common, and so are Wonder Guard Mega Audino and Blissey. In the matchups Mega Gengar finds favorable it rips through like almost nothing else, but the risk is great enough that I'd realistically never run it on ladder and rarely in a tour setting. Magic Bounce sets are usable on faster-paced teams but niche.

Xerneas isn't really worse than is currently portrayed on the VR, but I place it lower here due to Pokemon dropping in general from the metagame being centralized.

B-

Dialga

Kyurem-Black

Metagross-Mega

Tyranitar-Mega

Zekrom

Explanation

At this point, Abomasnow's overall worse than Kyurem-B since Mold Breaker Primal Groudon and Spore (relative to Dark Void) on Pokemon that commonly run sleep aren't common enough to warrant running it. Safety Goggles/Shed Shell Kyurem-B still hits harder than Icicle Plate Abomasnow and Pursuit on -ate users is better than Boomburst in my opinion since you can put frailer Dark-weak Pokemon (Mega Latias, Mega Gengar, MMY) in a bind that way. Kyurem-B can also run Mold Breaker Belly Drum + Ice Shard, which OHKOes Giratina with Icicle Plate after boosting and Extreme Speeds/outspeeds most other foes. Dialga's not really worse than the current VR suggests, but Pokemon are generally ranked slightly lower here. Two miscellaneous things: Dark Void/Spore + Gear Grind Dialga goes hard and if you think boosted Zekrom can't break you haven't tried it with max SpA investment.

C Rank
C+

Abomasnow-Mega

Giratina-Origin

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Explanation

What makes Mega Abomasnow worthwhile over Kyurem-B (Spore/mono-Thousand Arrows Primal Groudon) are less common now, and Kyurem-B has better enough stats that in my opinion Abomasnow's positives (previously implied Spore immunity/Thousand Arrows resistance as well as slow pivoting against opposing passive Pokemon) generally aren't worth it. These merits are still real, however. Stone Gyarados sucks if you want to be consistent but Magic Bounce and Prankster in particular are pretty cool starting Abilities that have completely different answers from Wonder Guard Gyarados; you still struggle in miscellaneous matchups (good pivoting + a revenge killer, Wonder Guard sweepers, Imposter, Shadow Tag Slaking/Regigigas), though. Lugia's outclassed by Arceus as a Shadow Tag trapper besides the Spikes immunity. Yveltal isn't really worthwhile in general since it loses to boosted Mega Latios without RegenVest or Sucker Punch vs non-Substitute, and exists to check non-MMX Psychic-types and Mega Gengar, which are in turn rarely worthwhile picks.

C

Latias-Mega

Lugia

Kyogre-Primal

Registeel

Sceptile-Mega

Yveltal

Explanation

I personally opted to rank Mega Latias based on bulkier boosting sets, since in my experience Latias is more effective at that role than Mega Latios. Lugia's mostly outclassed by Arceus as a Shadow Tag user, save for its Spikes immunity. Registeel checks Mega Rayquaza (might need Prankster for that though), and can come in on pretty much all -ate users with Magic Bounce; still not something you're realistically using unless you're running really bulky balance or experimenting with semistall. Yveltal checks Mega Latios/Mega Gengar/MMY, of which the former OHKOes with +2 Spacial Rend, and the latter two are either running support Wonder Guard sets or shouldn't be ran often. I'm sorry but Pidgeot sucks, there's a Pokemon with 75% more bulk and almost the same SpA/Speed right there.

C-

Garchomp-Mega

Ho-Oh

Kyurem-White

Umbreon

Venusaur-Mega

Explanation

Registeel has actual uses (checking Mega Rayquaza/bouncing hazards against -ate users), though it does struggle against almost everything else. I'm not sure if Ho-Oh belongs in C or C- rank, especially given the increased prevalence of Spikes relative to Stealth Rock recently, but non-Magic Guard sets strongly dislike Stealth Rock anyway and you only really check rarer Mold Breaker users in Mega Gengar/Dialga/Giratina-O/Mega Sceptile anyway. Mega Garchomp can Choice Band Dragon Rush/Dragon Claw Giratina, doesn't fear Huge Power Mega Gyarados as much as Primal Groudon does, and can outspeed random 307 Speed Pokemon if you really want to. Umbreon's a good alternative to Poison Heal Mega Gyarados/Yveltal that can opt to survive +2 Bolt Strike from standard Zekrom and surviving MMX's Low Kick at the cost of dying to boosted/Choice Band V-create from Primal Groudon.

D Rank

Yep, I think a D rank's warranted now that the metagame's close to solved and I don't foresee any more non-temporary metagame developments.

Absol-Mega

Aerodactyl-Mega

Arceus-Ghost

Audino-Mega

Banette-Mega

Bastiodon

Chesnaught

Deoxys-Attack

Ferrothorn

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite

Probopass

Salamence @ Salamencite

Swampert-Mega

Explanation

Absol-Mega: Choice Scarf Huge Power Knock Off/Foul Play/Pursuit user that outspeeds some boosted Mold Breaker users, as well as Deoxys-A/S.
Aerodactyl-Mega: Choice Band Mold Breaker user that hits slightly harder than Choice Scarf Mega Rayquaza (can't run Dragon STAB or mixed though) and resists Extreme Speed.
Arceus-Ghost: Multitype on Arceus spam teams to bait Fighting-type moves and hit hard with Spooky Plate Judgment.
Audino-Mega: Good switch-in to Mega Beedrill with Magic Bounce, can be made immune to Trick, doesn't lose to common Shadow Tag sets, very good non-Poison STAB Mega Gengar switch-in if you care about that. Does compete with Wonder Guard Mega Audino though, which is why it's not ranked higher.
Banette-Mega: Usable Belly Drum Mold Breaker user, as it OHKOes Giratina with +6 Spooky Plate/Expert Belt Shadow Sneak. Immune to Normal-type Extreme Speed. You can Huge Power Shadow Sneak Mewtwos/Deoxys formes/Mega Latios/Mega Gengar but I don't think that set is worth it.
Bastiodon: Mold Breaker Shell Smash Mega Rayquaza hardcounter if outplaying isn't your thing, loses to Ground/Fighting coverage but those are awful for consistency so you're probably fine. Probopass has better special bulk but this can slow pivot slightly better.
Chesnaught: Primal Groudon/Huge Power Mega Gyarados switch-in. Shadow Tag/Magic Bounce are alright if you're good with Chesnaught losing to V-create but Primordial Sea also exists if you're worried about the move.
Deoxys-Attack: Outspeeds Mega Beedrill and murks opposing Imposter users, though you're OHKOed by basically everything.
Ferrothorn: Spore-immune soft-check to select special Mold Breaker users (Mega Latios/Xerneas/Mega Diancie/Dialga/some MMY) as well as Pixilate users and non-Knock Off/Beat Up Huge Power Mega Gyarados.
Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite: Shadow Tag into No Guard's pretty cool, Illusion works well in theory too. This is a huge matchup fish but has relatively little competition by virtue of being a megastone user so I think it's good enough to include.
Probopass: See Bastiodon. You're slightly bulkier on the special side but are a little less slow.
Salamence @ Salamencite: Shadow Tag (Encore/Spikes are my favorite 3rd/4th moves) into Aerilate revenge killer. Better than Pinsir because you're faster, can take hits more easily, and still get the KOs you want against MMX and Mega Gyarados if you factor in Fake Out.
Swampert-Mega: Choice Band Mold Breaker with Thousand Arrows and Water Shuriken. Worse than Primal Groudon apart from matchups against opposing Primal Groudon and Mega Gyarados though.

And here are some honorary mentions that I'd consider if I wanted a larger D rank, though I don't know when I'd realistically want to use any of these – they're either near fully outclassed by Pokemon on the VR or perform roles that I don't find valuable in the metagame.

Deoxys-Speed – Fast leads don't really exist in Gen 6 PH

Gardevoir-Mega – Usable Mold Breaker with strong Moonblasts/Pixie Plate Judgments/Psystrikes/Psycho Boosts but you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to run this over Xerneas/Mega Diancie/MMY

Gengar @ Gengarite – Really funny when you can pull Shadow Tag shenanigans off but far too inconsistent and struggles to actually trap most Pokemon

Houndoom-Mega – Primal Groudon exists and is also a little weak as a Mold Breaker user; also struggles to hit Mega Gyarados and wants King's Shield if you don't want revenge killers to immediately force you out

Pikachu – Light Ball Imposter's really funny but in a Wonder Guard metagame (Light Ball Imposter still cannot break through Imposter-proofing Wonder Guards), running an Imposter user with significantly less (-74%!) HP for double damage against Mold Breaker users is simply not worth it. You'd need a ton of paralysis support to get full value out of Light Ball Imposter anyway.

Scizor-Mega – You'd be using this as a Mold Breaker or Huge Power (I think? Or Magic Bounce if you want to disguise yourself as a Wonder Guard) and I'd rather run Mega Metagross due to all-around better stats.

Shedinja – Wonder Guard Electric/Ground + Flying-types are pretty much always better to hardcounter Huge Power teams since you don't instantly faint to hazards and Shedinja loses to multiple Sacred Fire burns anyway.

Slowbro-Mega – Probably not this low in isolation, but the best reason people could give to run Mega Slowbro over Giratina was that it walls non-Boomburst -ates. In return, you can't threaten Wonder Guards and Magic Bounce users as effectively (no Ghost Curse) and have a harder time coming in on special Mold Breaker users and U-turn Primal Groudon. Its physical bulk is slightly better, though that doesn't matter much.

Steelix-Mega – Almost every physical attacker has some way to threaten Mega Steelix – MMX and Primal Groudon hit it with their STAB moves and Choice Band Mega Rayquaza frequently runs Precipice Blades. On the special side, Registeel's just better. Just the metagame not working in Mega Steelix's favor.

 

[sussyamongusdrip]

Hey guys I’m pretty new to hackmons and stuck at 1100 I want to know if you have any ways of improving this team besides saying something along the lines of “I think spore spam is bad cus googles”
https://pokepast.es/bdb51937fb738fff
I’d put a fancy moving pokemon here but idk how it works

 

[Eyeos]

View attachment 588000

That’s fake don’t believe everything you see on the internet

 

[Bahamut]

Here is my personal VR. This is going to be a bit different from Aerobee's. While I think Aerobees and the current VR are both good my list aims to be more on the side of theoretical tour usage and the very peak player battles. I still have to take into account ladder as no real forum tours have been played and even if tour games did happen ladder is still where the majority of games take place but I am treating ladder as a secondary priority. I am going to rank out every single Pokemon in ONLY regular ranks and no guard ranks and leave WG actually in bigger groups as well as have it fully alphabetical for just WG. This is due to the fact WG is just so heavily volatile and WG meta does change.

Some explanations:

WG explanations

I only separate S and S- as there's just barely enough of a gap to separate.

Ice-weak wonder guards being in A rank: This is because Huge power MMX teams and coverage teams in general are massive for one thing and they hard block a lot of that. The other is that No guard isn't used very much and as such I place it a lot lower in regular Viability rankings. Thus this also helps Ice-Weak Wonder guards get a lot higher up.

Mewtwo-Mega-X: Mewtwo-Mega-X teams are by far one of the top archetypes and even without huge power it can run lots of coverage and fake out quite a few sets while also still providing solid Wonder Guard support.

C rank: Ultimately most of Aerobee's C and D is IMO not viable enough to bring to a tournament. These C-tier pokemon I have listed barely qualify as well but there a lot better than current VR and most of what's considered for that list.

Regular Rank explainations

Regular rank:
WG and Giratina being number 1 and 2 as per usual nothing really to say about that. As for the gap theres enough of a gap I find that theres no S- rank.

A rank: A+ and A are normal not much to say here. A- has Latios-Mega here as its harder to fit on teams. Latios-Mega has item-locked issues as well as not as versatile as Rayquaza-Mega or Groudon-Primal.

B Rank:

No Guard: No Guard is placed in B+ because its usage is nearly nonexistent at the very top of the ladder and I expect it to not be used very much in a tournament setting either. No Guard is still extremely strong and can force all sorts of mind games and I think anything below B+ is a little much and anything below B is out of the question but it's for sure an ability that's IMO only gotten weaker over the years of metagame development. It has had ups and downs but ultimately has shown to be weaker in this current "solved" meta state.

Gengar-Mega: As of the update on 4/6/2024 I recently decided to drop Gengar due to the fact that ultimately because its a counter pick its not a first-tier choice. Its strong and keeps its place at the top of B+ but due to its somewhat situationalness it can't really be considered in the true best mons or A tier for this reasoning.

Aegislash: The only reason this isn't B+ is because No Guard is placed there. This is starting to get close to my end of regular rank picks but I think it's still a very nice pick. Its utility is something unique and in a metagame where Mewtwo-Mega-X huge power coverage teams are some of the best, it really shines on those archetypes. Perhaps this one is a lot more specific in usage but we are now in B tier and ultimately your picks are gonna be more specific or tuned to secondary options. Aegislash fits this secondary option group for me very nicely. Read Aerobee's takes on it and other posts in the thread about it for more information.

B- Rank: These are the last of my secondary picks. Arceus has not just Mold breaker sets but also has very niche spam sets, prankster sets, or even the most fringe of multitype sets but together it helps it be something I think is "good enough" to at least consider. Xerneas is in a similar boat with weaker ate and mold sets compared to Diancie and even huge power it "competes" sort to speak with both Diancie and Mewtwo-Mega-X. But it has all of these sets and THE ALL MIGHTY DEER SQUAD has shown more than enough of its power that spam is really good for it. Mega-Mewtwo-Y also again has a lot of the same traits between its specs and smash mold sets, specs stag sets, huge power sets, and can also work well as a spam mon. This mon can run almost anything really in terms of stag, mold, or huge power sets but it's a little bit weaker and its defense is also a bit weaker than say Mewtwo-Mega-X. Lacking fighting type hurts as well considering the Normal type Wonder guards and Gyarados. But all that being said the ability to run so many options makes it a nice pick. While I do have a gap between Aegislash and these it's actually really small perhaps even smaller then A+ vs A.

C Rank: These are the VERY last of my picks. These pokemon have utility or surprise factors that can help in some specific games but generally aren't something I would generally bring or are very hard to place on teams.
Starting with Gyarados @ Gyaradosite at the top here. Gyarados can run illusion, prankster, or magic bounce. Discounting WG and No Guard as those are ranked separately. These abilities while they seem nice are really hard to place or use. When it does manage to get off a smash and transform it can only do so once and loses its other ability. It's dangerous but a bit hard to pull off and requires specific circumstances to work in. Not bad but for sure a 3rd pick or a very team-specific pick for me.
Kyurem-Black and Abomasnow-Mega depend on match up as well as to which you wanna bring. While I believe that the niche in dealing with Primal-Groudon is a decent bit lower, Boomburst power isn't needed and not really able to run the Belly Drum Extreme Speed sets that Kyurem-Black has put it quite a step lower so it's instead in C- instead of C.
Metagross is Metagross. It has one set but it does it like a champ and that's about it. Go read any post with it in it from Aerobee to explain more about it. The last of the mold breakers down here are pretty meh usually but they can sometimes pair with other molds or do ok in specific types of match-ups but generally, you really don't consider using them all that much if at all.

D Rank: Everything in D is stuff I would not actually bring to a game but you sure as heck can and do ok with. The utility provided by a lot of the Pokemon down here isn't that bad or that awful but it's not worth using over stuff above it in the majority of cases. This also goes for the last of the mold breakers. Latias-mega and Pidgeot-mega do about as good as Latios-Mega or Arceus but not much real reason to use them except for super fringe bulk cases or flying niche from Pidgeot. The best of these is giratina-origin and is borderline c-. It can do a lot of what Gengar-mega can except it trades off almost all of the power for a lot of bulk not the best trade-off. Sure it can run low kick but secret sword literally exists. Not much else to really say besides I could add a funny meme E rank like RBY G rank or something with the remaining D rank mons in Aerobee's post.

S Rank
S+
1.

Wonder Guard

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

EVERYTHING HERE IS RANKED ALPHABETICALLY

S Rank
S

Audino-Mega

Kyogre-Primal

Xerneas

S-

Arceus

Beedrill-Mega

Blissey

Slaking

A Rank
A

Deoxys-Attack

Escavalier

Gardevoir-Mega

Gengar-Mega

Landorus

Landorus-Therian

Manectric-Mega

Mewtwo-Mega-X

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Sableye-Mega

Scizor-Mega

Thundurus

Thundurus-Therian

B Rank
B

Cresselia

Deoxys-Speed

Drapion

Dusclops

Ferrothorn

Groudon-Primal

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Ho-Oh

Lucario-Mega

Ludicolo

Rotom-Fan

Skuntank

Swampert-Mega

Talonflame

Volcarona

C Rank

Ditto

Gyarados

Lopunny-Mega

S
2.

Giratina

S-
None!

A Rank

A+
3.

Mewtwo-Mega-X
4.

Gyarados-Mega
5.

Chansey
6.

Rayquaza-Mega
7.

Groudon-Primal

A
8.

Slaking
9.

Regigigas
10.

Diancie-Mega

A-
11.

Latios-Mega

B Rank
B+
12.

Gengar-Mega
13.

No Guard

No Guard Viability Rankings

S Rank
S+
1 .

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

S
2.

Mewtwo-Mega-X


A
3.

Gengar-Mega
4.

Arceus
5.

Mega-Aerodactyl

B+
6.

Lopunny-Mega
7.

Deoxys-Speed

B
8.

Deoxys-Attack
9.

Beedrill-Mega
10.

Alakazam-Mega
11.

Manectric-Mega
12.

Sceptile-Mega

C
13.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
14.

Latios-Mega

B
14.

Aegislash

B-
15.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y
16.

Xerneas
17.

Arceus

C Rank
C+
18.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
19.

Metagross-Mega

C
20.

Kyurem-Black

C-
21.

Abomasnow-Mega
22.

Dialga
23.

Tyranitar-Mega
24.

Zekrom

D
D+
25.

Giratina-Origin

D
26.

Sceptile-Mega
27.

Lugia
28.

Yveltal
29.

Kyogre-Primal
30.

Ho-Oh
31.

Venusaur-Mega
32.

Registeel

D-
33.

Umbreon
34.

Kyurem-White
35.

Pidgeot-Mega
36.

Steelix-Mega
37.

Aerodactyl-Mega
38.

Latias-Mega


Edit 4/5/2024 - 4/6/2024:
Added Umbreon, Steelix-Mega and Aerodactyl-Mega to D-
Gengar Mega Dropped to B+
Revamped No Guard VR

Old No Guard Viability Rankings

S Rank
S
1 .

Mewtwo-Mega-Y
2.

Mewtwo-Mega-X

s-
3.

Mega-Aerodactyl
4.

Deoxys-Speed

A
5.

Arceus
6.

Gengar-Mega
7.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
8.

Lopunny-Mega

B
9.

Deoxys-Attack
10.

Beedrill-Mega
11.

Alakazam-Mega
12.

Manectric-Mega
13.

Sceptile-Mega
14.

Latios-Mega