NU Stats - May 2013

[Punchshroom]

Trust me, Carracosta is a much better sweeper in paper than it is in theory. Any half decent player won't let you Smash without having you pay dearly for it, and Costa can't really safely Smash against much of anything. If you Smash, you've half crippled yourself, if the opponent hasn't already done that for you, and exposed yourself to priority (You can get a sweep going if you've played well / survived); if you don't Smash, you're stuck with a slow as molasses sweeper with exploitable defensive typing. The only reason I consider it a threat is that it can guarantee at least one kill in the right circumstances (usually costing Costa though), so there's that.

 

[tennisace]

Trust me,

I don't


Anyway: once again I feel that the 1850 vs standard stats are the most telling about the state of our metagame. In particular, Wartortle, Miltank, and Ninjask (mons that are generally looked upon as bad by higher level players) are some of the largest drops, while Golurk, Scolipede, and Kangaskhan (all S-rank threats) are the largest gains.

However, a couple interesting ones:

| Garbodor | +4.31578% |
| Roselia | +4.03971% |

It's interesting that these two mons in particular (both Poison-type Spikers) have such large gains in usage, while Scolipede has been dominating in that sort of role for 2 months now. I can see why though: Garbodor can rack up passive damage quite quickly with Rocky Helmet and Aftermath along with Spikes, while Roselia gets recovery in Rest / Giga Drain, good bulk with Eviolite, and can take on the bulky Water-types that Scolipede struggles with.

 

[Punchshroom]

I don't

Each to his own, I guess. I've already admitted that Carra can be threatening, just not to the degree you guys keep going on about.

| Eelektross | -0.25389% |
It's a pity really. You'd think no weaknesses, acceptable bulk and gigantic movepool would be enough, but that speed hurts it so much. It can beat many threats one-on-one yes, but it usually fails to beat another since it only has pseudo-recovery which is nowhere near enough to continue taking the numerous attacks it will have to weather before going for its own.

| Charizard | -0.33145% |
People should really try to look past the SR weakness and see Charizard for the beast that it is. Fire STAB is crazy good in this meta, with Flying STAB being icing on the cake for Primeape and whatnot. Charizard's power and coverage should never be underestimated as it dismantles defensive and offensive cores alike if given the chance, even with SR on the field. Roost helps too.

| Riolu | -0.24338% |
I should really start using this again :P

| Sawsbuck | -1.48740% |
| Victreebel | -0.39784% |
Sawsbuck is arguably the biggest case of 'hero to zero' I've witnessed so far. Its coverage is neat, but for some reason it still lacks some sort of punch. Perhaps people didn't like how LO recoil stacks up quickly with Double-Edge. Perhaps they don't like how Horn Leech can fail to KO Golurks or Samurotts while getting KOed in return. Its speed tier is now the norm as opposed to above average, and it doesn't fare too well against the new arrivals either.

However, Victreebel's comparatively lower drop may indicate most Sawsbuck players haven't tried Sawsbuck in Sun. Sun teams are super dangerous right now (still don't get how Victreebel fell) and Sawsbuck offers the best balance between power and speed in Sun (Jumpluff wants to set up to be threatening, and that wastes Sun turns).

I can't seem to find Exeggutor in 1850 stats. Is it forgotten, or has it really fallen that far? :I

| Armaldo | -1.76610% |
Finally.

 

[Infernis]

I don't.

Anyway: once again I feel that the 1850 vs standard stats are the most telling about the state of our metagame. In particular, Wartortle, Miltank, and Ninjask (mons that are generally looked upon as bad by higher level players) are some of the largest drops, while Golurk, Scolipede, and Kangaskhan (all S-rank threats) are the largest gains.

Another interesting thing I noticed: the fast new drops like Scolipede, Jynx, and Primeape are used more in the 1850 stats. That's pretty obviously going to happen, but it's also dragging the usage stats for the higher ranks into a much more offensive configuration. Zebstrika went down in usage this month, but not nearly so much in the 1850 stats. Kangaskhan, Piloswine, Gurdurr, Samurott, and Skuntank are some of the best priority users in the tier. They got huge boosts in usage. Generally fast stuff like Drifblim (presuming Acroblimp) and Swellow got smaller usage bumps. At the bottom end of the 1850 +- list you'll find loads of Pokemon that are fast, but can't pull off scarf sets effectively anymore or aren't quite fast enough to beat base 95. (Rapidash, Sawsbuck, Jumpluff, etc.) I don't even know why Ninjask got such a huge drop. The thing doesn't have much power, but it can outrun and beat most of the huge offensive threats in the metagame. With seven of the top 11 being easy prey, I've found it to almost always get one, two, or even three kills in a match. Tough luck if the enemy has loads of bulky Pokemon that aren't weak to one of its STABs, but the reliability of just writing off such huge threats in some matchups is great for laddering. I can't tell you how many times I've seen that thing tear through a Jynx/Primeape/Scolipede trio in the middle rankings. (1600-1750) And higher up, where people use actual teambuilding instead of just piling up goodstuffs, it's still easy momentum with baton pass or racking up some kills against many of the most-used offensive Pokemon in the tier.

However, Victreebel's comparatively lower drop may indicate most Sawsbuck players haven't tried Sawsbuck in Sun. Sun teams are super dangerous right now (still don't get how Victreebel fell) and Sawsbuck offers the best balance between power and speed in Sun (Jumpluff wants to set up to be threatening, and that wastes Sun turns)

Ninjask can outrun and OHKO all the grass type sun sweepers except Leafeon, and that can be managed with some chip damage. Just sayin'. :naughty:

EDIT: Found Eggy. It's not in the comparison though, which is weird.
| 31 | Exeggutor | 6.79704% | 14622 | 7.345% | 11623 | 7.197% |

 

[Punchshroom]

Ninjask rant

Chlorophyll Jumpluff owns Ninjask, just sayin'. :/

I find your Ninjask to be very similar to Sneasel. Both are fast, both are super frail, both have average power, both have STABs that strike most of the top threats SE, they even have an annoying SR weakness! The major differences are that Sneasel can trap and has priority, whereas Ninjask can Pass the boosts away to evade threats and speed up your own dudes.

 

[atomicllamas]

EDIT: Found Eggy. It's not in the comparison though, which is weird.
| 31 | Exeggutor | 6.79704% | 14622 | 7.345% | 11623 | 7.197% |

It doesn't show up in the comparison because the difference in usage is less than +/- 0.1% (in this case +.05%). It happens every so often when the ladder and the 1850+ are in agreement.

 

[tennisace]

It doesn't show up in the comparison because the difference in usage is less than +/- 0.1% (in this case +.05%). It happens every so often when the ladder and the 1850+ are in agreement.

To build on this, most of the Pokemon Punchshroom listed are <1% difference, which is kinda missing the point of the 1850 vs standard list. When a mon has that little difference between the two stats, it shows pretty clearly that the general perception of the mon is consistent across all players, and that the usage stat is "accurate" to the true standing of the Pokemon. I really only consider differences of 1-2% as "significant" discrepancies between the two stat sets. Anything less than that could just be random error.

edit: ty infernis for the statistical analysis!

 

[Infernis]

Chlorophyll Jumpluff owns Ninjask, just sayin'. :/

Well, not if it sets up sun itself. If it does, it dies that turn. If the sun is already up, Ninjask has had at least one speed boost. Protect for one more and you're good. Pretty good odds on a double-switch in sun, though.

Pseudo-Edit: I actually just ran an ANOVA (Analysis of Variance) test with resampling on the table after parsing, and it turns out that differences of 1.514% or greater are statistically significant. (According to what equates to back-of-the-envelope undergraduate statistics.) Basically, it resampled the data set and the odds of any given person having each Pokemon are equal to its usage percent. You can generate a thousand extra months of May with similar user counts and find the differences from there. (I eyeballed the percentage of users in the 1850+ range to about 12.5%, but the actual number would make this more accurate.)

 

[Punchshroom]

So Eggy, who isn't shown on the 'Standard vs 1850' comparison, is considered solid Top 25-30~ material? Works for me.

Well, not if it sets up sun itself. If it does, it dies that turn. If the sun is already up, Ninjask has had at least one speed boost. Protect for one more and you're good. Pretty good odds on a double-switch in sun, though.

This is assuming Ninjask comes in after Pluff KOes/sleeps something or switched into a Sunny Day. Jask would have to stay in for 2 turns to outspeed Pluff, and if Pluff has Substitute those Protects will backfire.

 

[kniteowl]

I wonder why people are complain about Armaldo's high usage when it's one of the few viable rapid spinners in the tier, your other viable options are Torkoal and Wartortle. Sure it has problems against Misdrevus, but so do Torkoal and Wartortle,. Well Smash Torkoal could probably take Misdrevus if you predict correctly. I remember the bad old days when Claydol was Number 1 in RU lol and people complained then too, I guess people just don't like rapid spinning support pokemon high on the list.

Armaldo
| Moves
| Rapid Spin 83.678%

What are the other 17% smoking? I'd like some :-P lol

I'd figure Rapid Spin would be higher then 83%, 90% at the very least although I was expect more along the lines of 95-99%. Is there some special Troll set without rapid spin?

Well I guess if you're gonna complain, complain about the 17% who are trolling around with Armaldos without rapid spin lol

 

[skylight]

I wonder why people are complain about Armaldo's high usage when it's one of the few viable rapid spinners in the tier, your other viable options are Torkoal and Wartortle. Sure it has problems against Misdrevus, but so do Torkoal and Wartortle,. Well Smash Torkoal could probably take Misdrevus if you predict correctly. I remember the bad old days when Claydol was Number 1 in RU lol and people complained then too, I guess people just don't like rapid spinning support pokemon high on the list.

Armaldo
| Moves
| Rapid Spin 83.678%

What are the other 17% smoking? I'd like some :-P lol

I'd figure Rapid Spin would be higher then 83%, 90% at the very least although I was expect more along the lines of 95-99%. Is there some special Troll set without rapid spin?

Well I guess if you're gonna complain, complain about the 17% who are trolling around with Armaldos without rapid spin lol

I assume it's something like SD/X-Scissor/Rock Blast or Stone Edge/EQ for the extra coverage, or just SR in that place. Keep in mind that people also try out new things on the ladder, too, so the rest could just be... experimenting I guess. As for spinning it isn't extremely necessary, and offensive teams can afford to drop SR support if they put enough pressure on the opponents. For example CB Sawk is very offensive and can remove the issue of SR and multiple Spikes layers thanks to Mold Breaker assuming the opponent doesn't have anything that can easily switch into Sawk. There's other Taunt users, too. Other teams just deal with hazards and are just as threatening even with one SR or one layer of spikes up. But really the slot for a spinner isn't that necessary now since offensive teams can't really afford the extra slot and would rather just pack something else in that position.

 

[ihatesmogan]

Gardevoir being #4 surprises me. It belongs in PU, it is that bad in the current meta.

I think that's going a bit too far. While Jynx is the better psychic type, gardevoir has one niche over it: trace. It's ability allows it to stop weather teams immediately. While this isn't enough to justify it's use on teams, it is a niche and an option for people who are weather weak.

 

[Punchshroom]

Garde also runs a mean Dual Screens + Memento set, which really helps the influx of setup sweepers, most notably Linoone and Carracosta, do their thing.

 

[Axa]

I wonder why people are complain about Armaldo's high usage when it's one of the few viable rapid spinners in the tier, your other viable options are Torkoal and Wartortle. Sure it has problems against Misdrevus, but so do Torkoal and Wartortle,. Well Smash Torkoal could probably take Misdrevus if you predict correctly. I remember the bad old days when Claydol was Number 1 in RU lol and people complained then too, I guess people just don't like rapid spinning support pokemon high on the list.

Armaldo
| Moves
| Rapid Spin 83.678%

What are the other 17% smoking? I'd like some :-P lol

I'd figure Rapid Spin would be higher then 83%, 90% at the very least although I was expect more along the lines of 95-99%. Is there some special Troll set without rapid spin?

Well I guess if you're gonna complain, complain about the 17% who are trolling around with Armaldos without rapid spin lol

I've seen a couple Rain Dance teams around with Swift Swim Armaldo too. A Bug and Rock STAB are nice to take out Flyers and Jynx, and unlike Relicanth Armaldo doesn't double up on a Grass weakness.

 

[Magnegun]

Garde also runs a mean Dual Screens + Memento set, which really helps the influx of setup sweepers, most notably Linoone and Carracosta, do their thing.

Oh definitely, considering garde's workable bulk and how many pokemon actually benefit from such a bonus, I beg to disagree with people who think garde is pure crap. It's just had a purpose outclassed by jinx, Not all of them.

 

[Aasgier]

Oh definitely, considering garde's workable bulk and how many pokemon actually benefit from such a bonus, I beg to disagree with people who think garde is pure crap. It's just had a purpose outclassed by jinx, Not all of them.

All offensive sets are outclassed unless you are desperate for Thunderbolt on your Psychic-type.

Garde still has good defensive sets, and Dual Screens + Memento is very dangerous as it can ensure something like Carracosta or Linoone gets to do its destructive magic.

But what rank does a Pokémon deserve if it's main niche is to die so another Pokémon can set up?

 

[Infernis]

That depends on how much you need that Pokemon to set up and how reliably the enabler can do that. Gardevoir is easily the most reliable that I've used. Ranking is probably more relevant to the viability ranking thread, though.

 

[Johnathan]

| 6 | Skuntank | 11.75606% | 17847 | 8.965% | 14051 | 8.700%

Not surprising at all with the amount of Psychic and Ghost types so high up

| 111 | Simisear | 1.32835% | 2910 | 1.462% | 2266 | 1.403% |

Been using a Specsear recently and its awesome, no idea why its so low. Needs a dedicated core to operate at its best but not much in the tier appreciates a specs blaze boosted overheat/fire blast. Deserves to be in top 40.

 

[wiithepeople]

Golurk seems to be the next Heracross to me.

I fully expect a GenVI bump up to RU for the whackbot.