Thank god.
I couldn't have been more satisfied.
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Metagame np: SV Ubers Stage 1 - Ghost Train
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I couldn't have been more satisfied.
Yes thank you everyone who voted to ban it, that thing was so cheap. Didn’t have time to ladder sadly, hopefully we can move away from HO spam now
Move away from ho spam? With tera? funny. But at least teams wont be forced into running arceus normal at the risk of not having a reliable caly check.
I mean even if i think that this meta will pretty much always be HO oriented as long as tera existscaly being gone means that mons like skeledirge and toxapex that serve as more reliable checks to koraidon and zacian may be able to be used more outside of that lovely stall team me and some others i saw used for reqs lol
I mean even if i think that this meta will pretty much always be HO oriented as long as tera existscaly being gone means that mons like skeledirge and toxapex that serve as more reliable checks to koraidon and zacian may be able to be used more outside of that lovely stall team me and some others i saw used for reqs lol
Well, we made it. That stupid horse thingy is banned, thank goodness. All of this being said, however, even Calyrex-Shadow couldn’t manage to warrant a 5 out of 5 rating on how I personally grade broken Pokémon. The highest rating I could give this thing was only a 4, since I still feel like it’s frail by Ubers/AG standards and created discussion on if Terastalization was the problem as opposed to Calyrex-Shadow itself (so much so that this thread’s OP even had a section on why Terastalizing wasn’t being tested yet). In the current metagame, I don’t imagine anything else coming close to what could be considered a true 5 out of 5.
Maybe one of these days I’ll make a publicly viewable list of my criteria to see in the off chance anyone is interested, but for now, I say we focus on developing the post-Calyrex HOME metagame into the most enjoyable tier it can be. Offense and balance should remain in a good position, while stall both benefits and gets worse, now being slightly harder for offense teams to break through while compensating for the loss of the tier’s best spinblocker (on top of the already existing loss of Aromatherapy Calyrex this generation).
Maybe one of these days I’ll make a publicly viewable list of my criteria to see in the off chance anyone is interested, but for now, I say we focus on developing the post-Calyrex HOME metagame into the most enjoyable tier it can be. Offense and balance should remain in a good position, while stall both benefits and gets worse, now being slightly harder for offense teams to break through while compensating for the loss of the tier’s best spinblocker (on top of the already existing loss of Aromatherapy Calyrex this generation).
SV Caly was the most broken mon to exist by far.
I can both agree and disagree with this statement. On one hand, we haven’t gotten to see within an official format (so no National Dex Ubers, unfortunately) how, say, Mega Ray or pre-nerf Zacian would perform in a metagame with Terastalizing in it. Because that’s the last thing those Pokémon need, is to be able to change their type like that. Plus, there’s last generation’s Calyrex-Shadow to compare this generation’s to- if Gen 8 Caly could Terastalize, would it be even better than this one was? What about Tera Calyrex in a tier that does have, say, Yveltal or bulky Ho-Oh in it? Is Calyrex-Shadow, at the end of the day, a truly perfect Pokémon? Heck, does a truly perfect Pokémon exist at all?SV Caly was the most broken mon to exist by far.
Those are the kinds of questions that either don’t have an answer to them or whose answers are left entirely up to opinion. What makes something broken varies from person to person, after all. Not to mention, the more people vote in a suspect test, the harder it gets for a 100% ban vote to happen (from what I recall, this one was about a 90% or so with 46 eligible voters).
On the other hand, one has to consider the level of parity in the metagame during various suspect tests and/or quickbans. This post-HOME Ubers tier was so chaotic it even managed to catch my attention after having cared less about Gen 9 Ubers up until that point. In this way, Calyrex-Shadow managed to do something not even pre-nerf Zacian could do last generation, and was banned much faster to boot. The question becomes “how much of this post-HOME Ubers’s craziness was solely because of Calyrex-Shadow being a perfect Pokémon and not because of other metagame factors?”
I was hoping someone would bring this up so I could edit my post. RBY Mewtwo has always been seen as the gold standard for what an overpowered and overcentralizing Pokémon is. The fact that RBY only had two true Ubers is testament to the disparity between OU and Ubers in that generation compared to nowadays- part of that’s because of the smaller PokéDex, sure, but it’s also because the gap in power between OU and Ubers used to be much smaller, meaning it took a special kind of Pokémon to be considered banworthy, as evident by the fact something like RBY Tauros or GSC Snorlax was never banned.
I don’t mean for this post to be so long and all over the place, but nowadays when so many Pokémon are being sent to Ubers left and right, I can’t help but feel like Ubers is becoming the new OU while Anything Goes becomes the new Ubers in its place.
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Respectfully this is too many words abut theoretics compared to what I've seen and played, I think SS Caly is still quite broken despite it dodging the ban last gen too. Caly and the various teras you had to cover along with along with team compositions cause it mandated a Tera Normal and specific scarfers that didnt just autolose to specific teras/sets. A 90% banrate is crazy even for ubers standards lol. You're understating its warping effect in the builder and playing that Caly did and the discussions prior.
And for what it's worth I'd welcome a Tera discussion/ban not because Tera necessarily but because it makes Arceus and the different variations feel impossible to cover in the builder outside of using the fattest of stalls.
You may have a point there.
I do want to apologize for all of my theoretical statements (I believe the word is “theorymonning”?) in retrospect. I couldn’t tell you why, but I’ve always had this weird interest in studying what makes OP metagame assets OP to begin with. I just find the analytics of such a topic incredibly fascinating, and can’t help but use Past Gens as a reference point every now and then. We good? :)
I dont know about you but I have seen 0 stall teams running caly s as a spinblocker, skeledirge and giritina (though I dont think gira is very good on stall rn however it make get better with caly gone) and stall using caly was really just through ditto. I honestly think stall might get better because it was just at risk as every other team for just losing to the wrong caly s set in one go if you didnt get the predicts right (for the most part) if you dot have a healthy ting lu or blissey it was nigh impossible to check so having it gone is very nice.
As long as tera exists I dont know how well balance will thrive because a lot more tera mons that we didnt see as much during caly are gonna be a lot more widespread, Tera kyogre will only get more dominant, tera miraidon i stupid, tera koraidon is equally stupid, not to mention all the arceus forms that you can run because you dont need a caly s check.
dominant doesnt necessarily mean broken, try banning snorlax from gsc and watch the tier just fall into chaosWait till you hear about GSC Snorlax
Thank you SV Ubers community for doing the right decision, now lets travel back in time and do the same for the SS Ubers suspect!
I know this was a joke, but for the sake of Past Gens tournaments, I am curious about how many people who still play Gen 8 Ubers would support a Calyrex-Shadow recount.
The fact that Snorlax is busted, but maintains the health of a metagame is super impressive. It would be interesting to see something like that happen again.
Primal Groudon S+ Rank does that count?
edit: send reply to early
I think the tier will be in a much better shape now. I never tried uber but I was always curious how op Last Respects is. Gonna wait for some replays after some time passed.
Wish it was a joke, as none of my friends that played gen 8 AG argued that it should stay unbanned. I really don't know what kept it in the tier..
People seemed to think that since Yveltal was a good check, it was OK. They didn’t seem to realise that having to run a Dark type on every team you make to not get swept 6-0 by this thing was a problem. When I was trying to get reqs back in SwSh I kept running into this team that had 3 sash users.
Not entirely true, a lot of good stall teams didn't use any Dark-types. Also, Marshadow and Ho-Oh existed, so even if Yveltal is overwhelmed, you can hardly get 6-0d by it.
Ho-Oh got 2HKOed by a +2 Psyshock and hated losing its heavy duty boots to trick. Marshadow couldn’t switch in at all and lost to sets with Sub if it subbed on the switch. It also lost if Calyrex had an intact sash.
Anyway that’s by the by, it’s gone now. I Already like this meta better than the one before. Has anyone tried Calm Mind Arcues yet? Been running a team with CM Electrius, been very happy with the results so far. While they don’t pack as much power as SD, the extra bulk makes them way harder to revenge kill. Going to try CM Steel next I think.
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