Metagame NP: Stage 5 - Red Ruby Da Sleeze (DLC1 Movepool Updates)

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etern

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NU Leader

The long awaited 'Pokemon Home Shift' has finally hit NU! Here's what we got!

:arboliva: :articuno-galar: :coalossal: :copperajah: :decidueye: :delphox: :drednaw: :electrode-hisui: :flamigo: :glastrier: :hariyama: :heracross: :houndstone: :inteleon: :meloetta: :mismagius: :naclstack: :orthworm: :passimian: :primeape: :rotom-mow: :salazzle: :tauros-paldea-blaze: :toxtricity: :tsareena: :typhlosion: :uxie:

Barraskewda moved from RU to NUBL
Frosmoth moved from RU to NUBL
Goodra moved from RU to NUBL
Hoopa moved from RU to NUBL
Indeedee moved from RU to NUBL
Oricorio-Pom-Pom moved from RU to NUBL
Oricorio-Sensu moved from RU to NUBL
Tornadus moved from RU to NUBL
Arboliva moved from RU to NU
Articuno-Galar moved from RU to NU
Coalossal moved from RU to NU
Copperajah moved from RU to NU
Decidueye moved from RU to NU
Delphox moved from RU to NU
Drednaw moved from RU to NU
Electrode-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Flamigo moved from RU to NU
Glastrier moved from RU to NU
Hariyama moved from RU to NU
Heracross moved from RU to NU
Houndstone moved from RU to NU
Inteleon moved from RU to NU
Meloetta moved from RU to NU
Mismagius moved from RU to NU
Naclstack moved from RU to NU
Orthworm moved from RU to NU
Passimian moved from RU to NU
Primeape moved from RU to NU
Rotom-Mow moved from RU to NU
Salazzle moved from RU to NU
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze moved from RU to NU
Toxtricity moved from RU to NU
Tsareena moved from RU to NU
Typhlosion moved from RU to NU
Uxie moved from RU to NU


Go wild and discuss this essentially brand new tier, what mons do you think will dominate, will any previous NU mons survive this onslaught? Enjoy!​
 

etern

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NU Leader
Also before I unlock this, Rabia and myself have agreed that we want to take a less conservative approach with tiering going forward, in response to feedback from many community members. Therefore, any Pokemon that get quickbanned in future council slates throughout the next month will be re-examined by the council in approximately one to two months, to give the meta time to settle and ensure that everything gets a thorough chance to enter the meta without the chaos of a gargantuan shift.

Expect another announcement within the next few days as the NU Council votes on the entirety of NUBL to see which previously banned Pokemon will rejoin this new tier.

 

Aawin

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I am currently working on school shit so excuse the poor quality of this but these are my initial thoughts-

- Flamigo feels really fucking insane off the rip, as do the other fighters. Primeape with Rage Fist and able to run Eviolite feels crazy too
- Electrode Hisui feels pretty crazy as well, basically unwallable coverage and fast as fuck
- Bulkier builds got hella tools with Arboliva, Naclstack, and Houndstone feel pretty cool on stally-type builds Togkey go crazy
- Nasty Plotters and strong special mons like Mismag, Delphox, Inteleon, and Meloetta might feast
- Please keep Quiver Dancers banned I beg of you
 
I am very scared of Heracross and Drednaw tbh. More so Drednaw cuz Shell Smash + Tera is a hell of a drug, but SD Trailblaze Guts Tera Normal Heracross kinda scary. Looking forward to playing the tier once some bans are in. Anyways here's a few extra notes I wanna make.

- Rotom-Mow and Decidueye are great additions to the tier, and you could make an argument for Tsareena being healthy, but Arboliva and Electrode-Hisui are fucking scary as hell. Arboliva can just sit on everything and Electrode-Hisui is an Electric that can kill Sandaconda, so that's fun.
- Very interested in Articuno-Galar to be honest, could be pretty fun, but could also be kinda volatile.
-Besides Heracross, Primeape and Flamigo could be a threat and a half. Passimian will be great for the tier, and Hariyama can go either way.
- Copperajah being back is cool, I liked in Gen 8 NU, I always used it on my teams. Kinda sad it lose Power Whip and Heat Crash, but I think it will still be good.
- Toxtricity and Salazzle dropping to NU... can those be banned please?
- Worm...
 

Pokeslice

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Some quick thoughts looking at this list before I play around with everything and make a real post later.

:copperajah: / :orthworm: - We finally get the Steel-types that we’ve been searching everywhere for the last few months! Maybe a meta too late, but I think both of these Pokémon will cement themselves quickly as balance staples and will definitely hold everything together a bit.

:typhlosion: / :delphox: / :salazzle: / :tauros-paldea-blaze: - Ok so, in a tier where the past month has been ruled by a fast special attacking Fire-type because of our lack of bulky Water-types, we now have 4 more. All blazing fast, extremely strong, and with very little counterplay. There’s no way in my head most of these aren’t broken, but I guess Goodra will be freed and we have Coal now…

:inteleon: / :barraskewda: / :drednaw: - Yet another problem with a lack of bulky Water-types is that our offensive Water-types are going to be insanely difficult to handle. There’s no gastro, vap, mantine in the tier this gen to hold any of these back, and Drednaw got the Blastoise buff of Shell Smash, so it’ll be turbo busted.

:heracross: / :passimian: / :primeape: / :flamigo: / :hariyama: - Fighting-types are going to rule this meta, both at its start and as it all settles down. Some of these, Flamigo and Heracross, are insane breakers that I don’t really see lasting in the long run, but Pass / Primeape should be nice scarfers, with Primeape also running an insane Rage Fist BU set that I bet claims games. Yama probably end up being one of the better Pokémon in the tier, with Knock to make progress, Thick Fat + some bulk for a defensive presence, Tera Steel Bullet Punch with BD, and a Guts set. Who knows how many of these besides Pass will be balanced?

I’m personally also keeping an eye on the many special breakers in the tier. Mismagius, Toxtricity, Meloetta, etc etc all pose a massive threat and I’m curious to see how many are overwhelming in the next few days. It also seems we’re stuck with Sandaconda as the Ground-type again…
 
Heracross @ Salac Berry
Ability: Swarm
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat

I think this is going to be an under-appreciated set if this mon stays around. Everybody's brains are immediately going to go to choice items and guts, but this set might surprise some people. On paper it gets tons of opportunities to sub on passive mons. 0 SpA Hex drifblim doesn't break your sub most of the time so you can freely get into swarm at+6 and kill it, you also set up on any Rocks/Glare Sandacondas. Houndstone causes problems but if it comes in on a boost you can potentially get a positive situation with sub mindgames. You don't always need to be at +6; this set focuses on cleaning weakened teams with a speed boost rather than punching immediate holes. CC is theoretically changeable but that removes your unboosted damage. Pin Missile over Megahorn dodges any helmets, aftermath, rough skin(lol), breaks any random sashes or sturdies and generally nabs all the same kills when in Swarm and boosted. With decent 80/75/95 bulk and an ok defensive typing, it's even possible to absorb a resisted hit and SD as you go down into salac to clean.

It's not necessarily a better set than guts trailblaze/sd or choice item, but I think it's certainly a set worth keeping in mind when building.

 
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Corthius

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Haven't seen anyone talk about it, but I think for however long it's gonna stay in the tier, Toxtricity :Toxtricity: is going to be a really dangerous breaker or lategame sweeper.

The main benefit I think its gonna have, is abusing the many, potentially choiced, Fighting types with its typing, namely resisting both of Flamigo's STABs and potential U-turns from the others.
Choice Specs will enjoy the influx of VoltTurn the tier just received, as it fits in perfectly as the breaker thats supported by it.
Similary, Shift Gear + Throat Spray sets are going to be really strong lategame, especially considering tera for added strength, or additional setup opportunities.
Whatever its gonna be you're putting on your team, I believe that it will become, maybe after some time and bans, a truly strong addition to the tier, that might end up being broken.

-------‐-----‐-​

Just some short thoughts:

- Having 0 bulky waters is criminal, and the addition of a million offensive Fire and Water types sounds really scary.

- :Orthworm: Really excited for this drop too, might be a fake Steel type on the special side, but its physical bulk isn't slaking at all. Tera + Earth Eater sounds really fun.

- :Mismagius: :Tsareena: Just two pokemon I generally like aesthetically in our tier. Obviously another spin is going to be mental. Missy might be broken, 105 speed is just so fast and with NP and tera I'm unsure how well we can handle it.


That's it from me for now, just wanted to shine some light on Toxtricity :Toxtricity: because it is one of my favorite pokemon OAT and to use.
 

plznostep

Flittle Fanatic
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New Stall Threats

:sv/houndstone:

This tier is infested with Fighting-types and Houndstone is one of the best answers to them and other physical attackers in general. It is incredibly difficult to break; not even mons like Flamigo can break it effectively while it offers stall a spinblocker too for the new Tsareena. It's movepool is wonderful too, you can go Night Shade for consistent damage, Body Press to hit Ghost immunes, Will o Wisp to spread burns, Roar to phaze setup sweepers out, Yawn to spread sleep, Shadow Sneak to hit mons like Rotom and Delphox before they hit you, and Rest of course for recovery, otherwise you'll have to use with a Wish user like Umbreon and that can be a tiny bit hard to fit (although Houndstone does appreciate the Ghost resistance) and etc. Pretty damn good.

:sv/naclstack:

Naclstack is also a standout for stall, Salt Cure is as broken as ever and its stats are pretty good. It's ability lets it absorb status too while giving it a Ghost resistance as well and it can act as a wincon on stall with Iron Defense as well or just as a general rocker to enable something like Coil Sandaconda as well. It is a bit vulnerable to Knock Off however so watch out for that. Otherwise just generally good, probably

Honourable Mentions

:decidueye: - movepool is insane, has defog + recovery + u-turn + knock off, its just its bulk is average so its not great at taking too many hits.
:arboliva: - similar boat, a good movepool and its very threatening but its great bulk is kinda circumvented by its typing which is kinda bad rn lol


thats it just wanted to point out these lovely mons, they probably work outside of stall too but they definitely are at their best on these structures, so get ready to try breaking them all you ladder players okay?​
 
My opinions on 1) what I like, 2) what I should explore more, 3) what doesn't work and 4) what is still useable (among the old mons).

1) What I think it's good
- Arboliva :arboliva: is a very powerful and quite bulky grass type that works with AV and Choice Specs: its grassy terrain can also be useful for Belly Drum users (passive recovery) or to weaken :sandaconda: Sandaconda's EQ, so you can set up more easily with some sub mons. Having Earth Power is also amazing and harvest sets are annoying.
- I heavily stan Coalossal :coalossal: as a utility special wall with spikes/rocks and rapid spin. It is a fire type so you pressure :houndstone: Houndstone when it tries to spin block you and you prevent :typhlosion: Typhlosion, :salazzle: Salazzle or :Delphox: Delphox from spamming fire moves. The biggest selling point is flame body though, which can be a saving grace against the fighting types or :drednaw: Drednaw even when you're almost dead.
- Copperajah :copperajah: is still the old steel type we craved with stealth rock and possibly whirlwind for set up mons. Not exactly vital in teambuilding if I have to be honest though.
- Decidueye :decidueye: is one of my favourite (non-broken) drops: it has a good utility profile (Uturn, Defog, Knock Off...), it can be physical with SD or Special with NP which is huge, as lots of people use Houndstone as their defensive wall, so a strong Shadow Ball can really pressure the opponent: the special set is more effective against Sandaconda :sandaconda: as well. Additionally it walls non-snarl Toxtricity, it can't be burned by flame body or poison point and, being a grass type, it pairs well with Coalossal (more in general, I think that this type is generally useful in this meta for volt switch, water or grass moves and the usual snake's EQ).
- Drednaw :drednaw: might be the first ban-worthy mon: Tera Dark Strong Jaw Crunch/Shell Smash is hard to deal with (you can't Encore it with :sableye: Sableye) and you need a Scarf Inteleon :inteleon: or Orthworm :orthworm: to stop it: I think it's very team-restricting.
- Flamigo :flamigo: is like Drednaw: Houndstone :houndstone: is the main check, but its Scrappy CC (especially when banded) is insane. Not unconterable, but it heavily restricts team-building too.
- Hariyama :hariyama: is very powerful and we should keep an eye on it. It's not always easy to set up Belly Drum but, when it does, Tera-Steel Bullet Punch with a Flame Orb has crazy multipliers and it becomes stronger than a Tera Normal Extreme Speed Dragonite after 3 Dragon Dances. In late game, this mon laughs at your resists: you need Queenly Majesty/Dazzling, wear it down with your priority moves or stall its burn (despite the memes, Sitrus Berry is more standard though).
- Heracross :heracross: is another powerful Fighting type with scary Guts or Moxie Trailblaze sets (or the old scarf). Throat Chop is good for :mismagius: Mismagius or :toxtricity: Toxtricity. It has also Spikes in case.
- Houndstone :houndstone: is in a weird spot, because I think that right now it's vital to deal with the Figthing types, especially Flamigo :flamigo:, but after some bans everything might change. In any case defensive sets are good (especially in stall) with mandatory Will-O-Wisp.
Body Press, Night Shade and Roar are generally the other moves I see.
- Inteleon :inteleon: is an incredible mon that it saves you from everything (when it's scarfed), but it might also be broken with its high speed and sp.atk. It has Ice Beam for grass mons, Tera-electric makes this mon tougher to deal with and it can pivot against Blissey :blissey: enabling your sweepers. Scope Lens is honestly not bad.
- Meloetta :meloetta: has lots of sets (scarfed, specs, av, cm...) and I find it very annoying to understand its role. The special bulk can save you against Toxtricity :toxtricity:
- Mismagius :mismagius: is a very reliable and scary CM user (with tera-fairy and Draining Kiss). Definitely "staple-worthy".
- Little Naci :naclstack: is very good in my opinion (especially in stall) as Salt Cure is one of the most broken moves ever invented, which works even when you die. Other than that, it has Iron Defense, Body Press, Curse, Stealth Rock and reliable recovery in Recover. Being immune to status is amazing against Glare, WoW or TWave.
- Orthworm :orthworm: looks one of the few checks to Drednaw :drednaw:. Not stellar, but it might be better if Flamigo :flamigo: leaves.
- Rotom-Mow :rotom-mow: is a good grass type that pairs well with Coalossal :coalossal: and it's a very nice pivot that can threaten Sandaconda :sandaconda:. I prefer it over :electrode-hisui: H-Electrode, because it's stronger and can trick a scarf, but unfortunately it's slower than Flamigo :flamigo:.
-Salazzle :salazzle: is my favourite fire type and, thanks to its high sp.atk and speed, it's still good as Gen 8. NP or Choice specs sets are standard, but it's worth noting that she outspeeds +2 Drednaw :drednaw: when scarfed (it might be too exotic though...).
- Toxtricity :toxtricity: is another mon to keep an eye on: specs is powerful, but Shift Gear/Throat Spray Tera Normal Boomburst is scary too, even if it's not always easy to set up. Other moves include Overdrive, Snarl, Sludge Bomb or even Drain Punch for Blissey :blissey: but the opponents will definitely tera-ghost then.
- Tsareena :tsareena: is another good grass type with rapid spin: uturn makes it a good pivot. It can be a staple, definitely.
- Typhlosion :typhlosion: does what it does: it spams Specs Eruption and you need a Coalossal :coalossal: to take it. Now that we have good hazard control, this mon can be scary.

2) Stuff I should test more
- Guno :articuno-galar: looks very interesting and threatening as a CM user but maybe with lots of competition. As special sweepers, we still have some QD mons, Meloetta :meloetta:, Mesprit :mesprit:, Mismagius :mismagius: (which generally always keeps two immunities) or Toxtricity :toxtricity:. I need more time to fully understand its potential
- Delphox :delphox: is definitely a good mon with nice coverage, but maybe I prefer Salazzle :salazzle: or Typhlosion :typhlosion:. Its special bulk can be vital sometimes, but I'm not completely happy about its speed which is still slower than some old stuff like :Scyther: Scyther.
- I still have to find a purpose for :electrode-hisui: H-Electrode: it's fast, as I said I like grass types now, it has Soundproof for Toxtricity :toxtricity: (Tox has the type advantage though), but I don't think it reaches :jolteon: Jolteon's levels. I have to test it more: maybe the Leech Seed set.
- Primeape :primeape: looks good to me (with its Rage Fist/BU set), but I haven't seen it much (maybe the reason is Fighting type competition). It has lots of margin for improvement. And it has SR for some reason.
- Pauros (Blaze) :tauros-paldea-fire: suffers from figthing competion too, I think. The defensive sets might not be a good idea when Flamigo :flamigo: is around (Intimidate doesn't even work). I need to explore the offensive sets though.
- Uxie :uxie: is like Guno, with lots of CM competition. Still a nice utility mon with SR and Uturn. I'm also afraid we can see a :cresselia: Cresselia wannabe in the near future.

3) Bad stuff
- Simply, I don't think there's a reason to use Passimian :passimian: over the bird.
- Glastrier :glastrier: might be better with tera and can be scary in some situation, but I think that, ignoring weird niches, this mon is never vital in your teambuilding.

4) Old stuff that I think it's still useable
:sandaconda: Sandaconda is still the best ground type which can wear down Flamigo :flamigo: with rocky helmet. Coil sets still look popular.
:appletun: Despite the competition, Appletun looks fine as a grass type, with a resistance to fire. It's still the main dragon, but maybe things will change with a freed :goodra: Goodra.
:blissey: Blissey is mandatory in current stall and it checks the new special sweepers.
:bombirdier: Right now the old sets are not very effective in my opinion, but Parting Shot/Memento can be very good for your set-up sweepers.
:braviary: I've seen BU Braviary in some semi-stall teams and it's scary.
:bruxish: Bruxish looks actually good to me: maybe people find it hard to build a team that checks both Inteleon (special) and Bruxish (physical).
:cryogonal: Cryogonal kinda improved to me: you can afford a full sp.def set now and it can deal with Inteleon (you need 12 EVs in speed to be faster after a rapid spin)
:ditto: Ditto-stall is evil (with new tools additions like Salt Cure). Of course it's the emergency button of this current situation, but still...
:drifblim: Weirdly Drifblim is a Flamigo :flamigo: answer as it resists CC and, thanks to its high HPs, Brave Bird is not exactly safe (recoil+aftermath)
:froslass: Froslass is just very standard in hyper-offense (ghost+spikes)
:qwilfish-hisui: Both Qwilfish have still their spikes role imho. Maybe the eviolite one is better. Moreover there's always rain with Floatzel.
:toxicroak: Toxicroak faces the same fighting competition, but as usual its water immunity is valuable and, like Decidueye :decidueye:, its special set can be explored , especially with a Houndstone :houndstone: that thinks you're physical. Vacuum Wave is also nice for Drednaw :drednaw: (also for tera-dark)

Finally I don't think that the old kings are useless: Eelektross, Mesprit, Muk, Rotom (1 base-point faster than Flamigo though), Scyther and H-Sneasel.
Simply they might be overshadowed by better stuff
 
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Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
:sv/meloetta:
Haven't seen much talk of Meloetta but want to!!! Meloetta is one of the more insane of the drops with how versatile it is. You really can't go wrong with Choice items, Calm Mind, or even just Relic Song shenanigans. Defensive counterplay is pretty absent too given your coverage is great, and the Steel-types we have aren't holding up well against Focus Blast. Cool special bulk too---you can take some stray attacks in a pinch from attackers like Rotom-C and Salazzle.
 
Not much point in talking about stuff like Drednaw, Inteleon, etc..; they're broken and going to be quickbanned within a ~week**.

I think something much more interesting is the variety of defensive Pokemon we got in these shifts.

:arboliva:
Arboliva is absurdly bulky and its longevity is improved even further by both of its abilities. Beyond its walling potential which lets it take on threats like Inteleon and Toxtricity, Arboliva has a very high natural damage output thanks to its Terrain-boosted Grass moves and fantastic complementary coverage in Earth Power, hitting Poison-types like Toxtricity and Salazzle and Steel-types like Copperajah. Arboliva's well-rounded stats makes it adhere to any team it finds itself on, while able to rock a variety of different sets ranging from Choice Specs, Assault Vest, Sitrus Berry + Harvest, and defensive Leech Seed sets. In my eyes Arboliva is already a top-tier Pokemon, sitting around the A+ area, we'll see how it goes as the metagame develops.

:houndstone:
Houndstone is a very welcome physical wall in a meta now dominated by Fighting-types like Flamigo, Heracross, and Hariyama. Although it's offensive movepool is a bit lacking, Night Shade and Body Press typically get the job done, with other utility options like Roar and Will-O-Wisp rounding it out nicely. Fluffy lets Houndstone take hits from a myriad of physical attackers, making it a reliable wall. I do think it's general passivity will leave it relegated to more defensive teams, but the variance in physical walls not named Sandaconda is more than welcome in the tier.

:coalossal:
Coalossal is the Fire resistance this tier was really looking for last month, and it did not disappoint. With access to dual hazards, Rapid Spin, Will-O-Wisp and good offensive coverage for a passive Pokemon, Coalossal makes itself very splashable on many teams. Flame Body punishes the U-turn spam in the tier, and its offensive STAB combination means hazard removers like Lurantis, Drifblim, Cryogonal, etc.. really struggle to even remove hazards that it sets up.

:orthworm:
Completely walling Sandaconda is one thing, but Orthworm has Steelix-level defenses with access to Spikes and Body Press, making it a supreme wall in the tier. Unlike other physical walls, Orthworm very rarely gets overwhelmed in the face of physical boosters thanks to its ability to boost its defense alongside them, with either Coil or Iron Defense (or Harden!). Coil works well with Iron Tail, something neat I saw zS using.

That's all for now, I need to play more. Expect a council slate up by next weekend at the latest, and maybe some preemptive quickbans depending on how things go '-'
 
I know I'm basically copying Perla's post but fuck it I'm doing it myself anyway.

Welcome to I Sort Every New Pokemon Into 1 of 4 Tiers, Those Being Bannable, Great, Good, and Iffy!


:arboliva: 2.5. Arboliva has quite a bit of potential as a defensive mon, with a swanky ability, good spdef, and various good moves. I can see it becoming very annoying in the future.
:articuno-galar: 2.5. We got quite a bit of Psychics in the drop, and Articuno-Galar seems like a pretty scary sweeper with Stored Power. Unfortunately there are quite a lot of Psychics in the tier so Articuno-Galar's not really a particular standout. Also I can put him at 2.5 I can do whatever the fuck I want
:coalossal: 3. Yeah I don't really see anything great about Coalossal. It can set up rocks and spin but it's too slow and not powerful enough to do much else. Flame Body could be supremely annoying tho.
:copperajah: 3. It's surprisingly non-bulky for a Pokemon that looks like it could take a lot of hits. I used it as a rocker for a while before realizing that it was never doing that much damage to opposing Pokemon, but he sure is one of the tier's best Steels. (even though copper isn't steel)
:decidueye: 2.5. It just doesn't have great stats or a great typing. It can do some cool mixed sets or setup but it's just not bulky enough. It does have priority and Defog, though!
:delphox: 2. I can see Delphox REALLY doing something here. It's specially bulky enough to end up getting scary if it finds the right switch-in, and it's on the faster end of Pokemon here.
:drednaw: 1. I HATE SHELL SMASH! I HATE SHELL SMASH! I HATE SHELL SMASH! If you let it set up once it will poop all over your team. People in the NU room have genuinely talked about using SCARF ELECTRODE-H just to counter this menace.
:electrode-hisui: 2. He's very fast, and he can Chloroblast! Not that he really wants to, Leaf Storm's better. A Specs Leaf Storm is very good at denting into unsuspecting mons, but unfortunately opposing Grasses kinda counter it completely. It also has Static for hax.
:flamigo: 1. How the FUCK did this end up in the tier. It is not okay at all. It's pretty much guaranteed to rock your shit if you're unprepared. I've mostly been using a double dance set with Agility and Swords Dance, and if I get them both set up without getting paralyzed or something, I win like 95% of the time. And Scarf sets are equally terrifying.
:glastrier: 3. It could be good with Trick Room, but I really don't see it making a dent in the tier with how slow it is and how there aren't really any more good Trick Room abusers.
:hariyama: 3. We got quite a bit of Fighting-types here, so I don't think this will end up shining until Flamigo inevitably gets banned.
:heracross: 2. Not as crazy as it could be now, but Guts+Trailblaze and Moxie could both potentially be crazy, and I could see this getting banned in a potential second wave.
:houndstone: 2. A great physical wall with Fluffy, and could probably form a very annoying stall core with Blissey.
:inteleon: 1.5. 252 SpA Choice Specs Sniper Tera Water Inteleon Snipe Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey on a critical hit: 441-522 (61.7 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
:meloetta: 2. Also seems like a great mon with its whole Aria/Pirouette shtick, and I've seen a Choice Scarf set on it do great.
:mismagius: 2.5. Could end up being better later down the line, but Delphox just seems better in every way except typing and design.
:naclstack: 3.5. Probably a pretty controversial opinion, but Naclstack has sucked in every game I've seen it in. It's probably better on highladder.
:orthworm: 2. The best Steel-type in the tier, and a great physical wall too! Not much else to say about it, it's just very good.
:passimian: 2.5. So far I've seen it be a great lategame cleaner with a Choice Scarf set and a lot of powerful moves, and I think it will significantly jump up in viability once Flamigo inevitably gets banned.
:primeape: 3. Kinda outclassed by all the other Fighting-types that have joined the tier lately. Rage Fist still does Rage Fist things, which boosts it up a couple notches.
:rotom-mow: 3. If this didn't have Trick it would be mostly outclassed by Electrode-Hisui, but thankfully it does, and I think Electrode-Hisui and Rotom-Mow will both be good in their own separate ways.
:salazzle: 3. Unfortunately, Delphox not only beats it 1v1, but also is better at it in most things except for speed and design. Also Salazzle learns Thunder Wave?? I only just now learned this, but hey it could work
:tauros-paldea-blaze: 2.5. The tier's fastest Fighting-type that won't drop! Intimidate's a great tool to help it succeed, and it's in general pretty good!
:toxtricity: 1.5. Let it set up Shift Gear once and your team is FUCKED
:tsareena: 3. In the same boat as every other pokemon that should be lower but was burdened with Rapid Spin and now is forced to be used as just removal and nothing else.
:typhlosion: 3.5. typhlosion when the clandestine cobblestones: (dead) Most of the Typhlosion stuff I've seen involve making teams just to support it, and while there are unfortunately not that many bulky waters, Typhlosion is quite the one-trick pony that you can probably easily quell.
:uxie: 2.5. A pretty good neat little bulky Psychic that can set up rocks, set up sweeps with Calm Mind, and could probably work pretty well as a lead!

So uhhh yeah that's my take on things. Sorry if these turn out to be wrong, I was born with a rare medical condition that makes me shit at competitive Pokemon, so these are all pretty much experienced from 1200-1300 ladder.
 
I think that toxtricity Is capable of great things. Its good defensive typing can let it setup pretty often, mostly against some fighting type that dropped and Is choice locked on close combat and suffit. I Don't see why would We run throat spray over life orb in a tier where lo toxtricity can severely damage most special tanks with drain Punch. blissey, chansey, cryogonal, none of them like to take a +1 lo drain Punch from toxtri. Reminder: it has more attack stat than qwilfish, basculin, Even sneasel hisui.
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Toxtricity Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Cryogonal: 354-419 (97.5 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Where boomburst only does ~60%
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Toxtricity Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 377-445 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
isn't it nice?
+2 4 Atk Life Orb Toxtricity Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 367-432 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And i'm pretty sure chansey won't beat you up before two shift gear. Life orb Is great on mixed set involving drain Punch, since drain Punch Is recovery. with All that recovery, i'm pretty sure you Will win The duel.
What about soundproof electrode?
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Toxtricity Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode-Hisui: 139-164 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
You outspeed electrode after only one shift gear when 252 neutral speed, and leaf storm decreases The electrode's spa.

again, shift gear toxtri Is pretty fast after only one shift gear: for a 252 neutral speed, at +2, you reach The All mighty 498 speed, faster than scarfed pretty much everything.

Still, toxtri Is pretty frail. What about sandaconda, The main Ground type of The meta?
252+ SpA Life Orb Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandaconda: 346-407 (99.4 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Firstly, tera normal ohko, and if u dont ohko w/o it Will officially be haxx, and haxx Is part of The game. toxtri Is insane, it kills pretty much everything that does not resist its hits, and may i remind you it stayed rubl for 2-3 months? Like hariyama.
 
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Coalossal Is a solid pokemon tho. Its bulk Is comparable to great tusk's, but more balanced. It has 7 resistances in bug, fairy, fire, flying, normal, poison and Ice. Flame body punishes uturn and rapid spin on it, and Is able to punish a close combat or any physical pokémon using a contact move.
0 Atk Sandaconda Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coalossal: 292-348 (68.8 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nice to resist from the main eq of the tier no?
coalossal Cant win a 1v1 against sandaconda, but spin against it and maybe momentally burn it. Plus, it Is more of a supporter for a team. Like burning a braviary So An eventual toxtricity can setup easely against it.
Here are some sets,

Lead one (Coalossal) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Hazard control (Coalossal) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press

support (Coalossal) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin


Set one: lead, puts in sr and/or spikes, eventually burns, then explodes to open the way for its allies. It has problems with taunt like every slow suicide lead has, but i can barely anticipate a coalossal to be a lead.

Set two: that's the set i use the most. It spins and set rocks Just like tusk does. It burns Just like moltres does. It body presses almost as hard as the worm. And It teras as often as skeledirge. Tera water on all sets because it's the best tera for that big coal block.can try tera norm on set one.

Set three: that is a genetic type of coalossal. With flamethrower to punish when the spinner shows up, sr spikes and rapid spin for some good hazard control and

8 SpA Coalossal Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 126-150 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Coalossal Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tsareena: 168-198 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coalossal: 188-222 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO

Which is nice.


You wanted a bulky water in the tier? Try coalossal terawater, it is efficient. coalossal can check p much every flying pokemon in the tier, except if it uses a water or ground move. Braviary and scyther aren't menaces even with close combat
252 Atk Braviary Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coalossal: 160-190 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Well that birb gonna get burned, let it have fun tasting flame body/will-o-wisp. Scyther having less attack than braviary makes it even less a threat. terawater coalossal has to worry about electrode, arboliva, maybe some tbolt mismagius. Still, with a nice support from the team, like some rotom mow and magneton, the coal block can be deadly efficient in a game.
 

etern

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NU Leader
Hi everyone, over the weekend the NU Council voted on which previously banned Pokemon residing in NUBL should be allowed to re-enter this new meta. As two of our members were unable to vote in time for this slate, we've enlisted the help of some temporary rotating council members for this slate, so shoutouts to Kiyo poh Axrtix Elias PSY and DugZa for giving their input and allowing us to have a varied pool for our first vote of the new meta! As a reminder, a minimum of 8/12 votes in favor of unbanning are needed for a Pokemon to move from NUBL back into the tier.


Therefore, Goodra :Goodra:, Hoopa :Hoopa:, Indeedee :Indeedee:, Dudunsparce :Dudunsparce:, Grimmsnarl :Grimmsnarl:, Jolteon :Jolteon:, and Zoroark :Zoroark: have all been unbanned from NUBL.

Furthermore, myself and Rabia have taken on early feedback from the community and agreed to quickban Drednaw :drednaw:, Inteleon :inteleon:, and Toxtricity :toxtricity:. Drednaw's ability to break and sweep teams after a Shell Smash is near impossible to stop with practically no effort required to get going. Inteleon's insane speed coupled with the lack of Water resists in the tier make it a nightmare for any teams not packing a Blissey, while Toxtricity is able to blast past every wall in the tier and threaten late-game sweeps with Shift Gear, making it incredibly difficult to manage. As I mentioned previously, we will revisit any Pokemon that get quickbanned during this early stage of the meta at a later date.

Tagging Marty and Kris to implement these changes. Thanks.

Finally, you can expect the first council slate of the month within the next week and a half, which I will post in this thread beforehand for the community to discuss. Until then, let us know what you think of the newly unbanned mons from NUBL! See you soon.
 
Good riddance Drednaw & Toxtricity! Hated both of those, they forced so much strain on teambuilding and weird ass sets like Scarf Hisuian Electrode. Inteleon being banned is also really nice. With that said, I am pretty ok with some of the unbans, but there are three I have issues with, so I hope to see them on the Council Slate. I'll go over my issues with them real quick (I am gonna shorten them to a more broad view).

:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl: With how offense heavy the meta is right now with all the new drops, including the two Fighting Types Flamigo and Heracross, I do see why this was unbanned, but I wish it wasn't. Screens teams are insane now since we got a reliable Screens user.

:hoopa: Hoopa: Yes Psychic/Dark typing ain't the best in the world, that 4x Bug weakness and few resistances kinda wack, but in exchange... 150 SpAtk with 130 SpDef and 80 HP. Yes its Defense and Speed aren't the best (60 & 70 respectively) but those can be shored up with either Scarf or Screens. So, I am not looking forward to it being back.

:indeedee: Indeedee-M: Ok this might be the one that I am more lenient with, but I still think it needs to be monitored. My main issue is that the only things that can handle STAB Psychic from 252 Jolly Indeedee-M is Blissey and Defensive Uxie/Mesprit. Yes there are Pokemon that are faster like Scyther or Floatzel, but once again, this circles back around to Grimmsnarl. Screens can help Indeedee live these hits from faster Pokemon and swing back hard with STAB Psychic in Psychic Surge.

In short, ban Grimmsnarl and Hoopa and keep an eye on Indeedee-M. Also Heracross and Flamigo need to be watched a fuck ton.
 
Great... With Goodra unbanned, Typhlosion is... officially a PU mon. Delphox might be a little bit better because it has Psyshock at least: unfortunately we have the old dark types too (Zoroark is also faster). And concerning the last fire type, at least Salazzle is fast and can Knock Off Goodra if you need it
 
:hoopa: Hoopa: Yes Psychic/Dark typing ain't the best in the world, that 4x Bug weakness and few resistances kinda wack
I do quickly want to say that this form of Hoopa is Psychic/Ghost. So no 4x bug weakness, it's actually a neutrality. However, it is 4x weak to dark and ghost type moves. It will be a really nice option for handling the many fighting types in the tier, however it has some exploitable weaknesses from the dark and ghost type threats (I'm looking at you Zoroark disguised as a fighting type).
 
Council, y’all forgot one: :flamigo:

:hoopa: I don’t care if it was brought back because it’d check all the Fighting-types, but this will dominate now. Sure, they have Knock Off or Throat Chop, but Tera Fairy Blast beats the Dark-types. Also, with Zoroark, now, Hoopa has a partner to take Dark- and Ghost-type attacks, to cripple Hisuian Qwilfish, Eelektross, and Blissey with Knock Off, and to overwhelm Dark-types. This will be broken or at the very least top tier.

:zoroark: The Fighting-types seem like they can help the tier deal with it, but Knock Off + U-turn will always be hellish. Grimmsnarl and Indeedee, alongside Hoopa, will also be helped way to much by this dude. There’s also the fact that other than intuition, and the healthbar/status, you have no idea if it’s Zoroark or not.

:grimmsnarl: HO will actually be good again, unfortunately. Ignoring that, I still feel that this will be demonic. Bulk Up will be annoying as before, Choice Band, or meme-y Specs, will be harder to switch in to now that every team is for sure running a Fighting-type and a Fighting-type resist. Boots Pivot, however, seems the best, at the moment, due to Parting Shot helping against the Fighting-types. Also, why is every unbanned Pokemon helped by this thing setting Screens on HO.

:goodra: definitely balanced in this meta. the ton of ice-types and grimm will check it and all the fights will nuke it—great av mon that we rly needed.

:jolteon::dudunsparce: Both of these, were Pokemon I went back on forth on if they were broken or not. It’s easy to see why Dudunsparce was unbanned with all the Fighting-types, but Jolteon seems confusing to me. Seems more like a, “well it was borderline—might as well see how it is now”. Now that I’ve been in a Jolteon-less meta, I feel like it will make the tier insufferable again—it seems just a bit too centralizing and commanding.

:indeedee: “We need another Calm Mind Psychic-type that can now get a free Life Orb on its Psychic STAB moves whenever it comes out, abuse Scarf to become a dumb cleaner, and that can beat Fighting-types that you’ll see on every team!” said [redacted].
 
My Thoughts On New Drops Just By Looking At Them:

:goodra: I'm very happy with Goodra's addition to the tier! He seems like he'll be very healthy and not broken. If only he was here when Inteleon was going crazy...
:hoopa: I haven't seen Hoopa in action yet (or any other drops because they haven't been implemented), but I can see Hoopa going absolutely crazy. I'm not really sure how a Pokemon with that high special attack and special defense could be healthy.
:indeedee: We have quite a lot of Psychics in the tier, but I'm not sure if this is good or bad for it. On one hand, Meloetta and Delphox seem to maybe outclass it. On the other hand, Psychic Terrain could make for some psyspam shenanigans, and Indeedee will probably strengthen those aforementioned two's power, and I could see this getting rebanned.
:dudunsparce: Honestly, I'm not really sure what to think about Dudunsparce. It'll probably be good, will probably do more Zygarde-Complete stuff but for NU, and will probably be a better Sandaconda. This is the one I'm least sure about.
:grimmsnarl: Hehe no Light Clay. It's probably going to be a good bulky attacker with the Band stuff it was banned for, but I don't see it being all too insane unless HO gets better.
:jolteon: Electrode-HIsui stocks are probably gonna plummet, because Jolteon just seems better. It's got Calm Mind and can tank some hits, and I can see Tera Ice Bolt-Beam being a bit of a yikes moment
:zoroark: Yet another fast frail special attacker. We have so many of them that it could actually be pretty hard to distinguish whether that fast Nasty Plot/Calm Mind user is actually a Jolteon/Delphox/Salazzle/Indeedee/Mismagius or just a Zoroark.

Also, the changes haven't been implemented yet, so.....
:flamigo:
it's not too late to ban him.


for the record i have 0 experience with NU before all the drops
 
PLS stop asking to ban :flamigo: pls

Also :Goodra: gonna be amazing with all the broken fire types outside of Psyshock Delphox but i am afraid of this thing being broken again with the lack of true Steel types (Rajah and Worm have 0 spdef). Also many grass type like Arboliva and H-Electrode gonna hate seing Goodra again

Also September come with NFE in the DLC so more mons to play around.....
 
:jolteon: Electrode-HIsui stocks are probably gonna plummet, because Jolteon just seems better. It's got Calm Mind and can tank some hits, and I can see Tera Ice Bolt-Beam being a bit of a yikes moment
I don't think that Electrode-Hisui stocks are gonna fall off the face of the Earth because Jolteon has Coverage issues without Tera, meaning that if you want to use Jolteon, Terastallizing it into an Ice Type would be the only way to break past shit like Sandaconda. Electrode-Hisui has Grass STAB, allowing it to beat Ground Types without Tera'ing. Jolteon is a better Offensive Threat, but Hisuian Electrode is better as a support Mon using Volt Switch pivots along with Leaf Storm for burst damage.
 
I don't think that Electrode-Hisui stocks are gonna fall off the face of the Earth because Jolteon has Coverage issues without Tera, meaning that if you want to use Jolteon, Terastallizing it into an Ice Type would be the only way to break past shit like Sandaconda. Electrode-Hisui has Grass STAB, allowing it to beat Ground Types without Tera'ing. Jolteon is a better Offensive Threat, but Hisuian Electrode is better as a support Mon using Volt Switch pivots along with Leaf Storm for burst damage.
fair, but they’re probs gonna fall at least a bit
 

Finchinator

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OU Leader
:Flamigo: is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion. There are probably a handful of things that should go and I am still sorting through it all, but a Scrappy Fighting type with Flying dual STAB, good speed, and good attack is a bit much for the power levels of NU, especially with how saturated the speed tiers slightly below it are.

There is counterplay to Flamigo, but it forces less easy team compositions in this exploratory phase of the metagame. I see a lot of 2-for-1 type of situations and it’s not like losing it as a revenge killing option will hurt the tier in any way as there are a myriad of options now.

I’m also thinking :Zoroark: is unlikely to remain a healthy presence in NU, but at least this offensive metagame trajectory offers limited openings for it. Similarly worried about :Hoopa: but both may need a few more days.
 
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