Metagame NP: Stage 13: Free The Animal (Hoopa now RU)

[atomicllamas]

The drop of the mega base formes and the end of the Tyrantrum suspect test mean that it is time for a new NP thread! Given how new the meta is and the addition of some Pokemon which are likely to have a very large impact on the state of the meta game we will be starting with No Suspects. Instead, this thread will be serving a new purpose as a General Metagame Discussion. Sharing your knowledge of the (NEW) Metagame is a great way to get involved and help out the community, and this new thread is just the place to do that. Some things that could be discussed in this thread include:

• New Stage - If there are tier shifts, make some predictions on what the metagame will be like or comment on the changes (after a few days please try to talk about actual meta game experiences and keep theorymonning to a minimum).

• Suspect Testing - If you believe that anything is worthy of a suspect test, post about it and why you think it deserves a suspect test. (nothing will be chosen as a suspect until at least two weeks in though, if even that).

• Metagame trends - What are the most common or effective strategies? Are there any Pokemon that you think will rise in usage?

• Top threats - What should the main priorities be when considering a team for RU?

• Playstyles - Which are most effective? Are there any that cannot succeed?

• Cores - What are some popular or solid cores? Why do they work so well, and what can be used to beat them?

• Underrated Pokemon - Just because a Pokemon isn't used much doesn't mean its bad! There are plenty of hidden gems scattered throughout low RU, NU, PU, and possibly even Little Cup!

• New sets - If you have a unique set that you've had success with recently, share it!

Be sure to keep this discussion as civil as possible, as always.

And remember to enjoy this awesome tier and only think about current suspects if the meta turns out to really suck.

list of Mons new/returning to the meta

Absol
Aeordactyl
Aggron
Altaria
Ampharos
BEEDRILL
Blastoise
Medicham
Pinsir
Sceptile
Sharpedo

Bold are likely to be highly influential, while those with a strike through are pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Umen Berker]

The big question I keep having when building teams in this meta is choosing to use esca or aggron now when I'm looking for my slow heavy hitter (I often run trick room) and its made me examine their traits as pokemon just comparing them in general (as they fullfill reasonably similar rolls)

Aggron seems to do an offensive set just flat out better, bug is a better secondary typing defensively but offensively offers nothing that escavalier really needs, where as rock is an amazing offensive typing and now that ttrum is staying in the tier it means we have a steel type not named mlix that can take on ttrum's stabs and have the power to hit it back. Esca fails to stay in against ttrums most spamable move and has significantaly less physical bulk.

But defensively esca has a huge amount over aggron in just its typing. A x4 weakness to ground and fighting is really bad on a defensive mon and a water weakness just compounds this. Where as escas one weakness to fire is a fairly common coverage type its usually easy to predict when it's about to be used. Also with slightly better balanced defenses (70/105/105 for escavalier vs 70/180/60 for aggron) esca is far less specially frail and its ability to run a assault vest set effectively allows it a fair amount of special bulk. It also has the added bonus of getting knock off unlike aggron.

Neither has good recovery though or a good support movepool though so they aren't good at a passive roll and should usually be used as strong wallbreakers.

I suppose overall IMO aggron is the better mon for a wallbreaker due to its higher power stabs giving it more imediate power to do its job. Even if escavalier is better at taking hits it doesn't have the movepool it really would need to be as effective of a wallbreaker.

 

[g]

I have had a few battles against good players and definitely the drop that has been more interesting is Aerodactyl. RU is quite offensive at the moment and a Pokemon like Aerodactyl which is above pretty much anything in the tier aside from Choice Scarf users (and accelgor) of course has a lot of opportunities to do a lot of work. Life Orb is the item I have been using the most on bulky offensive team and 3 attacks + Stealth Rock or Roost is generally the set and damn if it works well. We have been missing a fast Stealth Rock user since Cobalion left and Aerodactyl brings it to another level, especially considering that it can easily stop Flygon with Taunt or Ice Fang and that even without Focus Sash it is pretty much guaranteed to get them up. It forces a lot of switches which are the best chance to set them up without dying since of course it has a lot of utility into the game (that's why I wouldn't run Focus Sash at all) and it has a ridiculous amount of coverage moves including Stone Edge, Aerial Ace, Aqua Tail, Earthquake, Ice Fang, (Fire Blast), Pursuit and a few more niche ones that let it take out stuff such as +1 Scrafty, Virizion, Durant (with Fire Blast or under 70% with Stone Edge), Delphox and Sigilyph (Pursuit as well) making it in general a great glue and supporter in a way.

Another one i am very quite excited about is Absol just because of its raw power. It is probably something that is better on paper but indeed 400 attack Knock Off and Sucker Punch with amazing coverage moves (superpower 2HKOs Steelix easily, there is Play Rough and Iron Tail as well along with mixed options) and Pursuit can make it terrorizing for slower teams (similar to Pangoro but less bulky and with more use vs offense) whose only good answer is really a Defensive Alomomola or Hitmontop (outside of fairies I guess), which are both scared of a potential SD (which won't be exceedingly good but has potential). Haven't tried Sharpedo but that definitely looks amazing (unlike Aggron lol why would I).
Altaria is also emboar full counter so that can have a slight bit of usefulness?

 

[Mr James Grey]

Ive been playing around with a team consisting of both rock head choice band Aggron and Rock Head Choice Scarf Tyrantrum in a sort of "Head Smash" spam kind of way a l'a bird spam in OU. Even though the particular team Im using still needs heavy fleshing out, from what I have done in my limited ladder experience with it seems promising. Baring the odd resist, both mons can 2hko pretty much the whole tier (which Im sure we know by now) and the effectiveness of using both to weaken eachother's checks has been quite high. I'd like what could be done with this Aggron/Tyrantrum Rock Head Smash core in the hands of players with more experience than myself.

 

[Cheryl.]

PoliGod (Poliwrath) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Circle Throw
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

So I've been using Poliwrath lately, and it's really good right now. It's a great check to the new drops like Absol and Aggron and non Zen Headbutt Sharpedo, and it has great bulk and survivalbility thanks to Resttalk. Fighting types in general are really good this meta, as we just got a Rock and Steel type, a couple of Dark types, and Tyrantrum isn't banned! Poliwrath can also wall Waters with Water Absorb, and Circle Throw + hazard stack is pretty deadly if used correctly, as it can wear down mons pretty efficiently. While poliwrath still has it's issues, like Grass types being prominent, and two of the new drops, Ampharos and Aerodactyl, can give it trouble, it's still a great glue for teams that have trouble with Dark types, Water types, and Rock and Steel types like MegaLix and I hope you all try it out!

Calcs showing Wrath's bulk

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 133-157 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- 59.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 142-168 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery If anyone runs DEdge Aggron

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 143-168 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 87-102 (22.6 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery Walls CS Rantrum like a boss

96+ Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 117-138 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 139-165 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 208-247 (54.1 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Okay so maybe Wrath isn't that good of a switchin to Play Rough Sol
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 278-328 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 133-156 (34.6 - 40.6%) -- 45.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 49-58 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 166-198 (43.2 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And to show you what Wrath can do to these things..

Wrath's power

0 SpA Poliwrath Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 108-128 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Poliwrath Scald vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Mega Steelix: 126-150 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Poliwrath Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 194-230 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 148-180 (52.6 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 254-300 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Absol: 186-222 (68.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So basically, while Wrath's moves seem a bit weak on paper, with stuff like hazard support or Scald burns, Wrath can rack up damage really easily.

[/hide

 

[Kableye]

Title should be "ban the animal"...

Anyway some things I like:

cb spiritomb

Spiritomb @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Return / Will-O-Wisp
- Trick

There is nothing new about this set. I've only been using it a lot recently because i realized many spiritomb "checks" depend a lot of their ability to use certain moves, such as Houndoom, Tangrowth, every fairy type bar CB Granbull (who fears wisp), Fletchinder to an extent and so much more. Overall I think Trick in itself is a really underrated move.

dark spam

Absol @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail / Pursuit

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Zen Headbutt (change evs obviously)
- Dark Pulse / Crunch
- Protect

Love this core so much, the combination of Absol and Sharpedo pressures so much of this tier. I really think Absol is the most underrated of all the drops, base 130 attack with perfect coverage is insane. And once Absol is done wrecking with its sheer power and coverage, Sharpedo can easily sweep once fairies, grass types (specifically virizion) and others of its checks are weakened by Absol.

I'm not going to post the set because everyone knows it but I've found myself using Granbull on just about every team. It's really good vs the expanse of dark types and fighting types that are storming this team rn.

So far I think this tier could definitely be better if a few things were banned but for right now it is at least fun to mess around with the new drops. Sharpedo I can definitely see being suspected, Absol possibly as well. I think in time people will realize just how destructive Absol is as a wall breaker. Aggron has Exploud syndrome and for now is outclassed by Tyrantrum other than resisting fairy. Aerodactyl is great because of the speed and coverage, Pursuit is my favorite set, messed around with a spdef set and it was decent. Blastoise is the best spinner right now. Tyrantrum I hope gets a retest and people stop thinking that "without it we'd have only bad dragons" and realize how stupid of an argument that is. Originally I was pro-keeping Tyrantrum until I found out Aggron and Aerodactyl might drop; and now have; making Fletchinder not as much of a nuance (even though it still is lol). Also I think Ampharos should at least be D but I'm not going to join that argument. I am a god.

 

[Take Azelfie]

So with dark-spam being super powerful ATM, strong and fast fighting types gain a huge buff.

Gurdurr is something that I absolutely love seeing in RU thanks to it punishing stall with Guts and Bulk Up. It does require some good healing support from pokemon like Mega Audino and Alomomola yes but it still great none of the less. But the thing that caught my the most was the powerful Mach Punch it holds which can dismantle some of the new threats that dropped.

So with a lot of people talking about Aerodactyl being a great lead in all I decided to look upon its feathered rival Archeops. If everyone is saying Aerodactyl is such a great lead then why aren't we using Archeops? Aerodactyl has a speed tier that ties with Jolteon while Archeops has enough to barely outspeed Durant and Virizion but is slower than Ambi and Cinno. Aerodactyl has 5 more base HP and 10 more SpD but if we are using it as a suicide lead then that doesn't really matter. Archeops has one better lead tool than Aero to which is Endeavor. Archeops ability is a hinderence making it not as strong to abuse that base 140 attack which can make it less effective at half health. Honestly I still think Archeops is better.

Just some things I thought I'd bring up.

 

[TheMasterOP]

No one talked about Blastoise but it seems quite interesting and at least a decent water type for rapid spin. the defenses are decent and could make it a surprisingly effective spinner.

Possible Set:

Classic Blastoise Utility
Blastoise @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Roar/Dragon Tail
- Foresight/Toxic

Aggron is pretty dangerous in every way with its combination of rock head + head smash and decent amount of attack make it a dangerous pokemon. choice band sets and the RP set will be very common in this metagame but it is in strong competition with tyrantrum which is more interesting and has different coverage moves.

Possible Set:

Aggron @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Aqua Tail/Fire Punch

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

There's a couple of mons I've been testing on ladder, and I feel both of them could be pretty useful, specially now with all these drops

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave/Healing Wish

Clefairy gets access to SR, Magic Guard and reliable recovery on Soft-Boiled unlike all others mono-Fairy types. Its decent bulk+Eviolite allows it to check and beat 1v1 Flygon, the best hazard removal in the tier, on the bulky set and the LO special set. Sp.Def investment+Magic Guard makes it a great Scald absorber, and a great special wall, taking hits on most of the special attackers (Exploud 2OHKOs). T-Wave and Healing Wish seems the better options as 4th move, but Clefairy can get Heal Bell too

252 SpA Life Orb Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 87-105 (25.2 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 130-153 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 127-151 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 136-162 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Another fight mon please

Ernie (Throh) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Circle Throw
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

First off, yes, Poliwrath seems to outclass it 100%. He's a better defensive mon being able to spam Scald and burn everything. Although, it's a little bit bulkier (120/85/85 vs 90/95/90), Guts+RestSleepTalk gives more offensive pressure, and it gets Knock Off. All these factors can make Throh deserves a teamslot on any Spikes stacking team. Bulk Up could be an option over Knock Off but there too many Ghost and Psychic types (imo) to be an option.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

I don't think Blastoise will have much of an impact as a Rapid Spinner as everyone else is saying. First of all, what does Blastoise even wall? A few bulky Water-types, Mega Steelix, and maybe a single switch-in to one of the Fire-types? The fact that Blastoise has very little defensive utility synergy-wise raises some concerns. Blastoise might be able to tank a hit and retaliate back once, but next turn it's most likely going down. Second, Blastoise is very easy to wear down, with no reliable recovery and a susceptibility to all entry hazards AND status effects. Although Blastoise looks at first to be able to tank a few powerful hits from full health or 87.5%, between pivoting moves, multiple switch-ins, possible status effects, and ESPECIALLY HP lost from switching into actual damaging moves, it's not difficult for offensive teams to knock Blastoise into KO range or to find a suitable switch-in. Finally, Blastoise is rather passive, as he has the same Special Attack as Jellicent but is usually going to go for Rapid Spin at some point, which means he basically won't be attacking for one turn.

Now, with his decent support movepool and good all-around stats, I can't write off Blastoise just yet. Although Rapid Spin and Scald are pretty much given moves for any set, the last two moves and even his EV spread is rather customizable (think Foresight, Toxic, Ice Beam, Roar, Dragon Tail, Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, or even Whirlpool), and could make for some interesting lure sets, or just whatever fits your team. Still, Blastoise's struggle with Jellicent and Trevenant, two of RU's main spinblockers, and its generally short life-span makes him not as great in my book. I think Blastoise will probably end up in B rank in the viability rankings, maybe even C+. I might be downplaying Blastoise a bit too much, though; I'll have to play with it a bit more and see.

 

[Kableye]

Blastoise has its flaws. There is not doubt about it. But in comparison to every other Rapid Spinner, Blastoise stands out in actually being able to Rapid Spin on spin blockers. Hitmontop's major flaw was that on every relevant spin blocker (Trevanant is not one of RU's main spin blockers lol) its forced to take a burn in order to rapid spin on them, crippling it offensively. Blastoise does not care about the attack drop at all, it only hates the chip damage, and thanks to toxic can even 1v1 some spin blockers like Cofagrigus. Just look at every relevant spin blocker. Jellicent and Cofagrigus each fear toxic and have no way to actually stop it from spinning, Spiritomb risks a burn by switching in, Mismagius is ok actually and can kind of use Blastoise as set up fodder, Rotom-N scares it out and Gourgeist while adorable has the same issue as Spiritomb. That's two poor matchup's vs 2 spin blockers that aren't even that common/great. The lack of recovery and average bulk is a certainly nuance to Blastoise don't get me wrong, but as a rapid spinner it is definitely way better than what we are used to in this tier. Having a spinner that is actually decent has opened up the opportunity for a more hazard based balanced style to become prevalent since before this was impossible with a lack of a good defensive spinner. If anything I see Blastoise being at B+. It shares traits with Flygon with being bad but the best we have.

 

[Hopeee]

Since the new drops, it is near impossible to run stall. Ofc, this does not mean that there aren't some stall teams that are extremely good, it's just now that there are so many threats in the tier (Sharp, M-Aboma, Aggron, Tyrantrum, etc.), there are just so many extremely powerful threats that it's extremely hard to cover all of them

The playstyles that got better after the drops IMO are BO and HO. BO has the plus of getting Aggron, which is now one of the biggest threats in the tier, w/ Bandgron doing over half with at least one of it's moves to every single wall in the tier. Also a mon that got a good buff was Hariyama, as it can wall so many things now w/ Thick Fat + Assault Vest. However HO definitely got the biggest buff of all. Here are just some of the mons that HO now has to spam, and some mons that are even more spammable: Absol, Medicham, Tyrantrum, Sharpedo, Durant, Aerodactyl, etc. Even for BO it's hard to wall some of these threats

Waiting for the upcoming suspect

 

[Umen Berker]

Blastoise has its flaws. There is not doubt about it. But in comparison to every other Rapid Spinner, Blastoise stands out in actually being able to Rapid Spin on spin blockers. Hitmontop's major flaw was that on every relevant spin blocker (Trevanant is not one of RU's main spin blockers lol) its forced to take a burn in order to rapid spin on them, crippling it offensively. Blastoise does not care about the attack drop at all, it only hates the chip damage, and thanks to toxic can even 1v1 some spin blockers like Cofagrigus. Just look at every relevant spin blocker. Jellicent and Cofagrigus each fear toxic and have no way to actually stop it from spinning, Spiritomb risks a burn by switching in, Mismagius is ok actually and can kind of use Blastoise as set up fodder, Rotom-N scares it out and Gourgeist while adorable has the same issue as Spiritomb. That's two poor matchup's vs 2 spin blockers that aren't even that common/great. The lack of recovery and average bulk is a certainly nuance to Blastoise don't get me wrong, but as a rapid spinner it is definitely way better than what we are used to in this tier. Having a spinner that is actually decent has opened up the opportunity for a more hazard based balanced style to become prevalent since before this was impossible with a lack of a good defensive spinner. If anything I see Blastoise being at B+. It shares traits with Flygon with being bad but the best we have.

Gourgiest doesn't really have an issue with blast due to blast loosing to it 1v1 as most all gourgiest carry synthesis or leech seed and lefties to heal off burn and scald damage. Plus even while burned seed bomb will beast blast as it has no reliable recovery. Which is the big issue with blast in the longrun. It can't beat many stall mons 1v1 as it lacks the power and is too susceptible to all status and has no reliable recovery at all. Anything with a status move or any reliable recovery and enough damage to beat leftovers (most everything) beats it

 

[phantom]

Blastoise is getting a ton of undeserved flak. You don't explicitly build teams using spinblockers in mind unless you're using hazard stack HO, so I have no idea why people are talking about Ghosts being such a huge con for Blastoise when they're hardly used; this isn't gen 5, and in addition, Ghost-types aren't used as often because many are mediocre to not good in this meta given how Dark-types are everywhere and as a result of the intrinsic flaws most Ghosts have in RU. Blastoise does its job consistently and almost always gets a spin off due to its raw bulk, and if you're that scared of Ghosts, it does get Foresight anyway. As a bonus, it can even check certain Fire-types and weaker physical attackers when need be. Calling it "bad" or "mediocre" is wrong. So many of you are underestimate just how big it is having a Pokemon that can help swing the hazard game in your favor (and do it rather easily as well). Blastoise beats nearly every single Stealth Rock user (in addition to Spikes Qwilfish/Mega Glalie) and has many opportunities to keep rocks off the field; it is a good Pokemon.

 

[lighthouses]

Has anyone tried Sceptile yet?
I've seen no discussion on it whatsoever

 

[Oddish is the best]

Has anyone tried Sceptile yet?
I've seen no discussion on it whatsoever

I know I haven't tried it because idk why I would use it over Virizion tbh :(

 

[Take Azelfie]

I know I haven't tried it because idk why I would use it over Virizion tbh :(

Well is can launch a Focus Blast or Gia Drain for physical walls sometimes

 

[Cheryl.]

Well is can launch a Focus Blast or Gia Drain for physical walls sometimes

Doesn't this set of Virizion also do that

Virizion @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Fire

Virizion may have less Special Attack than Sceptile, but it has STAB Focus Blast as well. Also, this set is also more splashable than Sceptile thanks to Virizion being very good this meta thanks to it checking the influx of Dark types and Water types. This set in particular is pretty popular right now thanks to the number of stuff it can set up on: Mola, Blastoise, etc. While it still struggles by having to rely on Focus Blast as a Fighting move, it's still a really cool sweeper and Virizion is overall a very good mon in the meta.

tl;dr: I still don't see a reason to use Sceptile over Viriz except 120 speed, and Viriz is a god this meta.

 

[atomicllamas]

I know I haven't tried it because idk why I would use it over Virizion tbh :(

Extra 15 base special attack + Leaf Storm, extra 12 base speed (gets past durant, opposing virizion, ties dugtrio if no HP fire, and ambigod), unique coverage if you decide to go physical, unburden on physical/mixed sets and overgrow for special sets. Virizion is much better against balanced teams, but Sceptiles speed and more powerful Special Grass STAB means it's much more potent against offense.

 

[EonX]

Agreeing with Spirit on Blastoise. Blastoise is best used on balance and bulky offense teams as it doesn't completely kill momentum. Not only that, but Blastoise can work as a nice status platform mon outside of clearing hazards through the use of Scald and Toxic, which is obviously something that most people don't like about Alomomola. (just Mola has Wish and Regen to live much longer) Blastoise may not be the best of the drops (hello Aerodactyl, Sharpedo, and Absol) but it does its job well and very efficiently. I've probably mentioned this in the RU Room on Showdown, but I don't think you realize the value of a reliable spinner that doesn't auto-kill momentum on balance teams. Now these teams can utilize Spikes (hi Roselia) and Toxic Spikes if they wish to without the need to worry about using a Defogger (Flygon) or a super defensive spinner (Hitmontop) to keep from getting destroyed by opposing Spike stack teams. While many may see Blastoise and Hitmontop as similar spinners, they are very different. Thanks to Intimidate, Hitmontop is able to check / counter opposing physical attackers much more reliably which is very useful for Stall teams, but Blastoise is able to act as a very underrated status platformer to make it hard for opponents to reliably take advantage of it which is something balance and bulky offense teams value. Blastoise also has access to Roar if you choose to use Spikes with it, which can easily replace Foresight if you don't fear Ghosts (which aren't very common) So something like this probably works best for Blastoise in the current meta imo:

Blastoise @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Foresight / Roar / Ice Beam

Note that Protect is also a viable option in the last slot if none of the given options really appeal to what your team needs so Blastoise can stall for burn or Toxic damage while also scouting Choice item users and getting extra Leftovers recovery. I would really only use Ice Beam on bulky offense teams as it's more likely these teams will lack durable switch-ins for the likes of Tangrowth and Virizion.

Stepping away from the new drops for a moment, I'd like to point out a couple of Pokemon that I feel got a lot better with the recent meta shift: Aromatisse and Hariyama.
Hariyama started rising a bit in popularity toward the end of stage 12, but it's even better in the current meta. All of the powerful Dark-types makes Ghost- and Psychic-types a lot less common and Hariyama does a good job of checking most of the new Dark-types. It still has the niche of being one of very few Pokemon capable of outright countering Houndoom and checking Mega Glalie and (Mega) Abomasnow. It's a complete godsend for balance teams as a catch-all answer to the aforementioned Fire- and Ice-types as well as Sharpedo (w/o Zen Headbutt) and Absol (w/o Play Rough) As for Aromatisse, it's still not as good as it was in XY with Mega Steelix taking a complete dump on it, but it is a pretty sturdy answer to the powerful Dark-types roaming the tier. It also happens to check the Fighting-types that tend to accompany these Dark-types. Aromatisse also has newfound-use on balance teams over Alomomola as a Wish passer. Previously, balance teams would almost always use Alomomola as a Wish passer, but with Blastoise being a fantastic spin option on balance teams, using Alomomola alongside it is very redundant defensively, which isn't a good thing. However, Blastoise is able to check Mega Steelix rather reliably and its presence on a balance team means that Aromatisse is the prime choice for Wish support for such teams. Blastoise is able to handle one of Aromatisse's biggest weaknesses quite reliably while Aromatisse gives Blastoise the help it needs in living longer to ensure hazards are kept off the field via Wish and Aromatherapy. Between Blastoise, Aromatisse, and Hariyama, a balance team has a very strong backbone to work with that can cover many of the tier's top threats (but not all obviously)

 

[g]

Extra 15 base special attack + Leaf Storm, extra 12 base speed (gets past durant, opposing virizion, ties dugtrio if no HP fire, and ambigod), unique coverage if you decide to go physical, unburden on physical/mixed sets and overgrow for special sets. Virizion is much better against balanced teams, but Sceptiles speed and more powerful Special Grass STAB means it's much more potent against offense.

The issue with using sceptile is also that unlike Virizion it leaves you a bit more open to Sharpedo, which is really hard to offensively check atm

 

[atomicllamas]

The issue with using sceptile is also that unlike Virizion it leaves you a bit more open to Sharpedo, which is really hard to offensively check atm

I agree but the point of my post is that, "I know I haven't tried it because idk why I would use it over Virizion tbh :(," is pretty unfair to Sceptile. Obviously Virizion is still better (probably will remain A+ rank), while Sceptile probably won't be higher than C+ or B, but its not like Sceptile is Typhlosion or something that actually has no niche, it has enough distinguishing features to justify its use on certain builds.

Speaking of shark though, I really need to try it atm, I think special is the way to go at the moment because the meta is just so much more physically bulky, however this comes at the cost of using Aqua Jet which leaves you vulnerable to Fletch (uninvested Aqua Jet is bad :/). It also doesn't help shark that the meta is super saturated with Dark-types right now as fighting spam is pretty potent at the moment, Poliwrath, Virizion, Sawk, and Gurdurr are all pretty decent at the moment which is unfortunate for shark (Hydro also bops Gurdurr for a lot more). Not only because they check shark decently, but also because they make Fletchinder that much more potent, which kind of forces shark to be physical and forgo coverage on Virizion / Poliwrath (Zen Headbutt), and without special moves it struggles with Tangrowth. I thought shark was gonna be a huge issue, but I think the way things turned out, it just doesn't have the move slots / EVs to be more than a decent cleaner on offense, thank god it beats Mega Steelix though, we needed more Pokemon that do that.

 

[lighthouses]

I find absol to be much more of an issue than shark is x_x
Rocky helmet druddigon is really good at the moment btw(especially alongise sharpedo and virizion), it provides great support for any mon that is gonna get revenge killed by either emboar or fletchinder, while also kind of trying to put durant in check which is pretty cool.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Absol is pretty insane right now since nothing can really switch in to it because of it's coverage and it's knock off hits VERY hard. It also has sucker punch to kill off faster offensive threats and is just pretty much all around very annoying.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Sharpedo is crazy, especially special sharpedo. Aqua Jet isn't really badly needed and I'd rather have the insane coverage than ease a matchup versus three mons who can't even switch into you. I don't know if it's suspect worthy right now but I do think it's being really undersold, and sometimes it reveals a weird coverage move or destiny bond and I just get bopped. It's especially crazy with toxic spikes because it's so good at stalling turns.

Blastoise hasn't done anything exceptional in a match I've played or observed, though quite a few times I've seen it do miserably because people were carrying Dark Pulse over Foresight (don't do that to yourself). It has almost all the same problems Hitmontop has, except it does better versus some common SR setters, very slightly better versus spikes mons, and spins on different stuff. I also think stall/balance spikes stack is really weak in the tier right now and that those are where Toise's main niche lies. It's a little overhyped for just being alright, but it's not like bad. Also, the times you need a spin the most is against hazard stack HO imo, so use foresight and save yourself the headache. Roar is cool when you lose to Scrafty right there I guess.

Aggron is a heat mon for punishing the opponent for using Aromatisse or Togetic.

I really do think Aromatisse got even worse with these drops and I really feel that Tisse sucks momentum even when it does beat stuff. Absol bops it, the wrong ev spread and it loses to Sharpedo, Aggron comes in for free, etc. I think this thing is crazy overrated.

Meanwhile, I want to call attention to a set I've used a few times and have seen other people use a few times, which I honestly think is better than Tisse - Mixed bulk Togetic without defog. It does better vs Sharpedo, still checks most of the same things, has thunder wave OR flamethrower to punish switch ins. The only time it's really worse is vs teams with a knock off user + Sharpedo, which is a lot, but Tisse *loses* to those team comps as well. It can't pass wishes but I haven't seen an Aromatisse pass a wish against offense without essentially killing itself in the process in months. I think they're both really vulnerable to rocks as well, honestly. Tisse checks SD Virizion much better but does worse against CM sets, which I'm suddenly seeing a massive influx of - Togetic PP stalls out CM sets with Sub/Synthesis and wears down sets with HP Ice/Rock.

calcs

Togetic252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 240 Def Eviolite Togetic: 140-166 (44.7 - 53%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 133-156 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 121-142 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Togetic: 185-218 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO+6 252 SpA Life Orb Virizion Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 304-359 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Aromatisse252+ SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse: 227-269 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 208-247 (51.2 - 60.8%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 276-325 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Virizion Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse: 204-242 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 110-132 (33.9 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Final thoughts;

Clefairy is fun but sort of requires a perfect team match up to do anything but use healing wish after switching in on super passive mons, because it's bulk is just sort of bad (I think it's just under where Aromatisse is, plus no lefties). I remember hyping it up back when knock off was less common in XY and it was honestly just alright at the time - now it outright loses to Scrafty, for example. Throh is a little outclassed by Wrath and Hariyama because they resist fire which is a big deal with Doom in the tier but it does have crazy bulk. All tomb sets are heat. All gurdurr sets are heat.