The GravSleep clause has been reinstated some time ago.Is Gravsleep banned or not? On Showdown it won't let me use it and the rules on this thread list it under the clauses. But this thread says it was unbanned by the council and would be revisited if need be, which it so far hasn't been so far as I can tell. So....??
I feel like the big difference comes down to opportunity cost: on one hand you have a strategy that requires you to commit your whole team to it, run at least 2 tr setters and a bunch of mons that pretty much need specific conditions to do their job properly and will most likely fall apart if your opponent manages to prevent trick room from going up; on the other hand a strategy that has similar sweeping potential but only forces you to invest two slots, one of which is a tier 1 mon and the other is a not-great-but-still-viable-I-guess one, which doesn't become immediately dead weight if your opponent prevents you from boosting it. Having such a powerful strategy that requires so little investment allows you to buid a team with 4 perfectly good mons and then just be likeI wouldn't quickban Beat Up btw, if things got banned for being too cheesy and requiring 0 skill, fullrooom also should have gotten banned when they turned from a checkmater meme strat that preys on players who lack fundamentals in Gen 6 into a full fledged legitimate (but brainless & cheesy ladder staple for people who overestimate their creativity and skill) archetype in Gen 7.
I definately agree with you in how OP Melmetal is, nobody can deny that, but it is much less punishing than terrak, and perhaps more importantly, one of the few non dedicated checks and counters as long as the beat up user is faked out (dragapult is immune but whim is more common, and you can incorporate sucker punch to certain mons), or trick room has been set up. It's also not unbeatable since he is very slow without trick room, somewhat frail on the special side without assault vest, which is further compounded by the rise of sun and vulnerable to burns without lum berry, safeguard or aromatherapy/heal bell. What I am trying to say is that I support a suspect test, but, quoting you, banning Melmetal now would have as a consequence, a further strengthening of beat up, which would further unbalance the meta, and thus the suspect should only be performed after beat up is gone.Beat up is only a "problem" because you guys banned Marshadow and Jirachi. This is on you. We could really use Marshadow to steal beat up boosts and redirection from the perfect typing steel/psychic going against Terrakion. Shit even op Melmetal would be useless. Beat up and Melmetal/shadow tag Gothitelle would not even exist, it would not even be viable at all, but thinks to your premature bans here we are now. Bans have consequences that only lead to a floodgate of more bans. With Melmetal on every team Kyurum would even be balanced.
With that said I'm in favor of no bans altogether, but since you guys have already opened that box. Beat up is not that hard to deal with, but it forces you to always run a Blastoise or Indee. It limits team building is my only problem with it, not its power. Speaking of team building there is a worse problem.
Now the real problem is Melmetal. That should be the first suspect. And once you guys ban beat up taking away the only good viable fighting type its really going to run wild. Melmatal is even more centralizing than beat up in team building. You need 2-3 checks for the thing because when it is max it does not die. It can kill keldo with max lighting, kill fire/ground types with max ground, boosts its attack back up with max fighting after intimidate from incin and than kill incin. And the gmax version is not even out yet. Its only going to get worse. How the hell you dictators miss this? You can just slap this thing on any team it does not matter. It makes running a different steel type retarded because none of them measure up to this so why run the other ones? Most brain dead mon ever created. Best max mon in the game. Oh yeah it can boosts its already insane defensive stats making it more unkillable.
Thats what i'm saying, once beat up is gone melmetal is about to get a lot worse. And teams are running screens with melmetal now making its special defense a void argument. And it can boosts its special defense anyways making it a none issue. after 1-2 turns it can tank special attacks. it really doesn't have low special defense. low number, but that is not its actual number in live gameplay. melmetal maxes 90% of the time. It can tank a special hit in max form turn 1 and just boost tell the point it shurgs them off after. It can survive a max hp eruption from torkal if its boost is special defense before torkal gets on the field and kill it with max ground.I definately agree with you in how OP Melmetal is, nobody can deny that, but it is much less punishing than terrak, and perhaps more importantly, one of the few non dedicated checks and counters as long as the beat up user is faked out (dragapult is immune but whim is more common, and you can incorporate sucker punch to certain mons), or trick room has been set up. It's also not unbeatable since he is very slow without trick room, somewhat frail on the special side without assault vest, which is further compounded by the rise of sun and vulnerable to burns without lum berry, safeguard or aromatherapy/heal bell. What I am trying to say is that I support a suspect test, but, quoting you, banning Melmetal now would have as a consequence, a further strengthening of beat up, which would further unbalance the meta, and thus the suspect should only be performed after beat up is gone.
"I have discovered the art of Faking Out and then nuking a Whimsicott right out of the gate to prevent it from getting any ideas. You would not believe how many Beat Up-based teams crumble when Whim doesn't get the chance to use it. "I'll go ahead and put my two cents in about the current meta:
Melmetal - I've got mixed thoughts on this one. I've never personally felt like I had to go out of my way to find something specifically to deal with it (like I did in standard OU), but I also can't deny that it is stupidly strong and kind of brainless. If we could do complex bans, I'd probably suggest preventing it from Dynamaxing, which I think would at least keep it from being too overpowering.
Shadow Tag - I never argue against banning a trapping Ability. Even though Goth is far from invincible on its own, Shadow Tag is an outright cancer that has no business being anywhere outside of Ubers or AG (especially when paired with Cosmic Power and Rest for PP draining).
Beat Up - I have discovered the art of Faking Out and then nuking a Whimsicott right out of the gate to prevent it from getting any ideas. You would not believe how many Beat Up-based teams crumble when Whim doesn't get the chance to use it. Not trying to push for or against a ban here, just offering a suggestion to make it more manageable. I'm honestly indifferent and wouldn't care either way if it does or doesn't get banned.
Also, I would be remiss not to end this post with a "Don't sleep on _____" plug, so allow me to introduce:
View attachment 225782
Beartic @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
As I was walkin' down Icirrus Street,
To me way aye, blow the Dragapult down,
A pretty young Cubchoo I chanced to meet,
Give me some time, to blow the Dragapult down.
That's right, ye scurvy dogs! Yer not gonna sleep so easily on a polar bear wearin' pirate garb, are ye? Especially when it be wieldin' Slush Rush and some coverage in its movepool. If Hail be up, Beartic be faster than a Dragapult. Ayecicle Crash be Beartic's main STAB attack, sendin' the dead fish back to whar it came from. Suparrpowarr be anotharr useful attack, hittin' Rock- and Steel-types like a cannonball rippin' a hole in the poopdeck of an enemy ship. Liquidation and Play Rough also be thar for additional coverage against Fire- and Fighting-types, although the former be of less effective use when Dynamaxed. Speakin' of Dynamax, Beartic be bulky enough that it can take some occasional hits when Dynamaxed, which be why Weakness Policy be the item of choice.
Beartic be best paired with Alolan Ninetales to set up Hail, as well as Aurora Veil. It also be appreciative of additional support when dealin' with Trick Room, Conkeldurr, and Sandstorm-based teams. Here be some replays showin' Beartic in action alongside some more established mons of this meta (and a few less-established ones, too):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1072026411
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1072030330
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1072034558
Do you realise that Dragapult learns Beat up? Fake out isn't working against Dragapult + Dynamaxing Terrakion, Dragapult has incredible support movepool to support Terrakion. You should watch Kiichi vs Kaori game that Ezrael highlight that game, it's full of fucking trash with random Ally Switch and random Thunder Wave. We don't want to play in the shit metagame like that.Beat Up - I have discovered the art of Faking Out and then nuking a Whimsicott right out of the gate to prevent it from getting any ideas. You would not believe how many Beat Up-based teams crumble when Whim doesn't get the chance to use it. Not trying to push for or against a ban here, just offering a suggestion to make it more manageable. I'm honestly indifferent and wouldn't care either way if it does or doesn't get banned.