np: RU Stage 5 - Dark Side of the Moon

[lars]

Not to downplay the benefits of keeping that extra 10% hp every turn, but basically CB is a good option when you either have bulk that you need to keep intact so you can tank a hit and retaliate (Aggron, Golurk) or have high speed and want to do max damage in one turn (Aerodactyl). Honchkrow really doesn't have either.

If there were a few extra OHKOs from CB pursuit over LO pursuit I could certainly see a little more niche value.

 

[alexwolf]

SubWisp Rotom and Sub Rotom with Shadow Ball, WoW and Tbolt are both fantastic in this meta! Both with max HP and Speed and Lefties.

The first one almost always counters Honchkrow if you manage to keep it with high enough health and checks a myriad other threats like most fighters except Gallade, bulky waters, and anything that hates being burned, while also having a somewhat reliable recovery move that also damages the opponent.

The second set just takes Rotom's best qualities into one set. Most of the times the opponent tries to figure out if the Rotom is offensive or defensive. When they see Lefties they tend to think that it doesn't run Shadow Ball, which just leads to their demise. It also never hurts to have a more reliable spin-blocker than 4 HP Rotom (which is so damn frail), that can 2hko Claydol, neuter Hitmonchan with WoW and ohko Kabutops while easily taking anything from defensive Kabutops. Just use this fella with Wish support, because without Pain Split he will be going down really quickly.

And the funny thing is that these 2 sets are the rarer, while imo they are the best!

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

The problem is that there arent good Wish-Passers in the tier. Lickilicky/Lickitung are really the best ones, and they don't have any offensive presence. They are really annoying to face though....

Anyway, If i were to use a spinblocker, I would use SubPunch Golurk, as nothing in the tier would wanna face Golurk behind a Sub. Also gives you a huge Electric immunity, which is really crucial when every support mon in the tier is running Thunder Wave.

 

[alexwolf]

The problem is that there arent good Wish-Passers in the tier. Lickilicky/Lickitung are really the best ones, and they don't have any offensive presence. They are really annoying to face though....

Anyway, If i were to use a spinblocker, I would use SubPunch Golurk, as nothing in the tier would wanna face Golurk behind a Sub. Also gives you a huge Electric immunity, which is really crucial when every support mon in the tier is running Thunder Wave.

Clefable is a fine Wish-Passer!
Give it a Toxic Orb, Facade, Grass Knot and Protect with a specially defensive spread and you are set!

Golurk is good but far from unwallable. Taunt Gligar walls it to hell and back, while only fearing Toxic on the switch. Tangrowth is in a similar boat, taking everything from it and only fearing Toxic. Finally Mandibuzz takes also everything easily and Taunts any attempts of Toxicing it.

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

Ok, I totally forgot about Clefable, so i guess that could work, my apologies. JW though, what does GK hit? Lanturn/Slowking? And I always ran Ice Punch on Golurk, so I would be able to hit both of those pokes. Fighting/Ground is shitty offensive coverage, so Earthquake isnt really needed.

 

[alexwolf]

Ok, I totally forgot about Clefable, so i guess that could work, my apologies. JW though, what does GK hit? Lanturn/Slowking? And I always ran Ice Punch on Golurk, so I would be able to hit both of those pokes. Fighting/Ground is shitty offensive coverage, so Earthquake isnt really needed.

Grass Knot is mainly for killing Omastar which most of the time you can wall at +2. The only Omastar which has a chance to ohko you is the LO Hydro Pump variant, which is quite rare, seeing as almost anyone is running the White Herb variant and those that run LO prefer Surf for the reliablity.
But aside from that it helps against Claydol, Golurk, Steelix, Kabutops, Poliwrath, Feraligatr, Rhydon, Regirock and some more that i may forget. I didn't mention Slowking and Lanturn because they take more from Facade than from Grass Knot.

Golurk doesn't get Ice Punch and i find EQ to be very good since it hits many pokes 2x weak to it or resistant to Focus Punch and neutral to Shadow Punch very hard like Galvantula, Entei, Qwilfish, Lanturn, Drapion, Klinklang (which can just break the Sub with Gear Grind's first hit, and with the second hit damage you disabling Focus Punch) and Roselia in addition to giving you one strong attack when you don't have a Sub up...

 

[lars]

Golurk really can't do much to Tangrowth period. In fact his best chance is probably to use Ice Beam (uninvested does about 5% less than F. Punch) as sad as that is.

The only SubPunch users that Tangrowth can't completely wall are max power Hitmonchan, the unheard of Guts SubPunch Hariyama, and the rare Muk (using Gunk Shot behind the Sub)

I certainly agree that Clefable can provide a better offensive presence, but Lickilicki doesn't have to be 100% defensive. With the typical extensive Normal movepool including Power Whip, Earthquake, Explosion, etc, he can provide at least an average offense by wall standards

 

[alexwolf]

Golurk really can't do much to Tangrowth period. In fact his best chance is probably to use Ice Beam (uninvested does about 5% less than F. Punch) as sad as that is.

The only SubPunch users that Tangrowth can't completely wall are max power Hitmonchan, the unheard of Guts SubPunch Hariyama, and the rare Muk (using Gunk Shot behind the Sub)

I certainly agree that Clefable can provide a better offensive presence, but Lickilicki doesn't have to be 100% defensive. With the typical extensive Normal movepool including Power Whip, Earthquake, Explosion, etc, he can provide at least an average offense by wall standards

Lickylicky has ok power for a wall. Clefable outclasses Lickylicky for one and only reason : the godlike Magic Gurad. With it Clefable has better walling potential since it ignores any passive damage, which we all know that make walling more difficult, while also having better offensive pressence since Clefable can use moves like Facade(with a Toxic Orb) or Double Edge, which both hit harder than Lickylicky's Return.
If Lickylicky had Magic Guuard i would believe that Santa exists since it would be able to actually wall any Shell Smash Omastar variant but i guess that the world isn't perfect...

 

[Molk]

i havent played RU much, this round but from what ive seen in the 20 or so matches ive played, durant seems to be on every other team. durant is a very underrated pokemon in general, but it has its checks like cofag, steelix, and qwilfish, not to mention that shitty SPdef i expect durant to shoot up in usage in the next few months. its really incredible in this meta. All durant users comment now.

(btw durant is a good honch check for HO teams, revenging it cause +1 SP doesnt KO =D)


ive actually been using durant myself for a while, its a monster behind screens, bieng able to set up on physical threats more easily and destroy entire teams.

 

[sheniqua]

Durant is good, but I just can't stand the 80% accuracy. I know that mathwise hustle is an amazing ability but its soo rage inducing!

Also I just want to note how ridiculously simple it is to ladder with HO teams. Smeargle + 5 random offensive pokemon does pretty good. A team with Torterra, Kadabra, and Haunter got to sixth at one point. (Wait maybe it was ninth...). Anyways has anyone been able to make a really good balanced/defensive team in this metagame yet?

 

[MegaKick]

claw sharpen durant is pretty good but walled by steel types and faster fire types make it cry since they can come in on 3/4 of it's moves. But with it decent physical bulk and good typing it can often avoid being revenge killed by priority which makes him excellent against offensive teams. I prefer hone claws aero though, stone edge + eathquake + recoil free double edge (fuck off claydol) or roost, and enough speed to outspeed even some slow scarfers makes him so awesome

 

[lars]

I consider my team to be pretty good and it certainly isn't HO. I would say its more of an offensive balance, but RU teams in general tend to bias towards the offensive end of things. Manectric, Kabutops, Tangrowth, Muk, Sharpedo, Honchkrow. I haven't made a push to get to the top of the ladder because I am currently testing Muk sets, but it really wasn't hard to get a few alts into the top 40s range.

i havent played RU much, this round but from what ive seen in the 20 or so matches ive played, durant seems to be on every other team. durant is a very underrated pokemon in general, but it has its checks like cofag, steelix, and qwilfish, not to mention that shitty SPdef i expect durant to shoot up in usage in the next few months. its really incredible in this meta. All durant users comment now.

(btw durant is a good honch check for HO teams, revenging it cause +1 SP doesnt KO =D)


ive actually been using durant myself for a while, its a monster behind screens, bieng able to set up on physical threats more easily and destroy entire teams.

I haven't really had problems with Durant this round (although his play style is the same as other rounds and he's given me some trouble then when my team was different), but I have noticed an increase in usage as well. He has counters, but I think some teams are just more Durant weak. That's kind of what I noticed when I used him a little a couple rounds ago. He would be so much better if he could successfully run a different set. On the topic of Aerodactyl, Tangrowth walls Aero pretty well because the strongest Flying move he can offer is Aerial Ace or (lol ) I suppose Sky Attack and a +1 LO Stone Edge is a 3HKO


Anyways, speaking of Muk, I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on him (or even uses him for that matter) because I've been testing his SubPunch, Curse, Choice Band, etc sets in RU and they all actually seem to do well. He has excellent Special bulk, respectable physical bulk, absorbs Toxic Spikes, has an extensive move pool, and has only 2 weaknesses. I've found the Choice Band to be particularly good. CB STAB Gunk Shot is no laughing matter if the opponent has no steels left.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah Durant is a very good poke, and i am seeing him more often these days. He has some hard counters but if you manage to weaken them he can easily sweep late game, since he does't particulary care about priority.
I have even seen a CB Durant which totally destroyed my slow stallish team with just X-Scissor. Yeah i was stupid enough to not have even a single bug resistor but whatever...

 

[Heysup]

Durant is pretty good in this metagame because of the huge amount of people relying on ExtremeSpeed and Sucker Punch as their revenge killing tools. He's still weak as balls but Bug is proving to be a pretty good type in this round at least.

Accelgor should be used more, but not as a spiker.

 

[alexwolf]

Durant is pretty good in this metagame because of the huge amount of people relying on ExtremeSpeed and Sucker Punch as their revenge killing tools. He's still weak as balls but Bug is proving to be a pretty good type in this round at least.

Accelgor should be used more, but not as a spiker.

I don't get you. Is 475 attack unboosted and 713 attack after a Hone Claw, both without factoring LO, weak as balls to you?

Also about Accelgor. The set i love more of his is Spikes, Final Gambit, Bug Buzz and Focus Blast with max speed and HP. This, imo, is the single best spiker for offensive teams. Most of the times you manage to get 1-2 layers of spikes up and often 1 kill, while at the same time preventing any spinner from spinning through the use of Final Gmabit.

 

[zdrup15]

Durant is pretty good in this metagame because of the huge amount of people relying on ExtremeSpeed and Sucker Punch as their revenge killing tools. He's still weak as balls but Bug is proving to be a pretty good type in this round at least.

Accelgor should be used more, but not as a spiker.

I agree with this, especially with the bolded part. I've used both Scolipede and Durant and they are both very good Pokemon due to their STABs hitting most Pokemon on stall teams such as Tangrowth, Slowking, Claydol, and Uxie for super effective damage. Their coverage is very good too, and if you pair them with something to take the few threats they can't outspeed (Aerodactyl, Sharpedo, some Sceptile versions, and Choice Scarfers) you have very powerful sweepers on your hands. Scolipede can even use a Spikes + 3 attacks set with Life Orb that works well against almost every playstyle.

 

[Heysup]

I don't get you. Is 475 attack unboosted and 713 attack after a Hone Claw, both without factoring LO, weak as balls to you?

Also about Accelgor. The set i love more of his is Spikes, Final Gambit, Bug Buzz and Focus Blast with max speed and HP. This, imo, is the single best spiker for offensive teams. Most of the times you manage to get 1-2 layers of spikes up and often 1 kill, while at the same time preventing any spinner from spinning through the use of Final Gmabit.

Just because he has 260 unboosted defense doesn't mean he's taking any hits with his 257 HP. He's good at taking Sucker Punches and ExtremeSpeeds but that's it. Even like Exeggutor's Psychic destroys him.

 

[Molk]

If you are really concered about its defenses just use it witth screens durant has no issue setting up in my experience especially due to that steel typing, which grants it good resistances to set up on

 

[LuckOverSkill]

Except Eggy can't switch into Durant, since it's slower, unless there's Sun up. And Durant shouldn't switch into Eggy, for obvious reasons (base 58 HP and 48 SDef strong).

How can Durant be weak as balls when there are...2 pokes that wall it?

I haven't played RU yet this round, because I honestly cba to build a team and ladder with it, but I have some ideas in mind.

 

[Blue_Star]

I think when hey heysup said "weak as balls" he probably meant durant is frail, since it has like 60 hp/50 spdef.

Btw, how do you counter sigilyph?

 

[Saria]

Btw, how do you counter sigilyph?

Depends of the set it is running, but some of its counters / checks for Sigilyph to main sets are:

- Manectric
252 SpAtk Life Orb Manectric Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 +1 SpDef Sigilyph: 80.17% - 94.83%

- Galvantula
252 SpAtk Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs 252 HP/0 +1 SpDef Sigilyph: 96.55% - 113.79%

- Rotom
252 SpAtk Life Orb Rotom Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 +1 SpDef Sigilyph: 75.86% -

- Cryogonal
252 SpAtk Cryogonal Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 +1 SpDef Sigilyph: 58.62% - 68.97%

You can also run Haze and Ice Breath to deal with Sigilyph better

- Calm Mind Spiritomb

No need for calcs here

- Scarf Aggron (I know it is uncommon, but I also now it is really good)
252 Atk Aggron Head Smash vs 252 HP/0 +1 Def Sigilyph: 100.86% - 118.97%

Just some random examples, there are other mons capable of beating Sigilyph.

 

[lars]

Btw, how do you counter sigilyph?

What sets do you specifically mean?

I personally think LO Roost, Air slash, Psychic, coverage is his best (and the one I see more often) which would mean no defensive boosts.

In which case, Durant and Sharpedo to revenge or Honchkrow (if you can predict decently) and Drapion work well.

For the Stored Power varients, the counters listed by Bad Romance are excellent and I can add LO Aerodactyl as well as Munchlax (phazing). There really are a decent amount of choices.

Jolly LO 252 Aerodactyl vs 252/0 +1 Sigilyph = 85.3 - 101%

 

[complete legitimacy]

I know I may have overreacted in my assault on Sigilyph, but I find that one of the best counters to its best set is Slowking with Dragon Tail. I've also found that a bulky Water combo of Slowking and Kabutops checks a lot of threats in the metagame while also having good offensive presence. Here are the sets:

Slowking (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 196 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Slack Off
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic


Kabutops (M) @ Splash Plate
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 192 HP / 132 Atk / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet

Slowking used to have the standard on-site spread, but then I found this more effective spread. Max HP with enough Special Attack to always break standard Gallade's Substitute. The rest is placed in Defense, and with a Bold nature has the same stat as the on-site spread. You may think this leaves more open to things like Moltres, but it really doesn't, as LO Timid Moltres will most of the time just fail to 2HKO with HP Grass.

Kabutops's set is even more original, if I do say so myself. Enough speed is run to outspeed max Speed Adamant Honchkrow and other things below it. With a Splash Plate and 132 Attack EVs boosted by a positive nature, Aqua Jet will always KO 0/4 Moltres after Stealth Rock. Subsequently, Waterfall will always OHKO. Kabutops is great for being an offensive spinner that can also use Stealth Rock. Thus, those are the final two slots, with the remaining EVs thrown into HP.

 

[Rakan]

The problem with Dragon Tail Slowking is that it is ridiculously weak, and is set up on by half the tier, which is probably why no one uses it. What I've really been enjoying this round is Jynx. A simple set with Lovely Kiss / Substitute / Nasty Plot / Ice Beam can rip through the majority of the tier, given Jynx's fairly good Speed and excellent Special Attack. If given screens support, with opponent Scarfers removed, Jynx can easily blow past nearly any team. The only true counters are RestTalkers such as Munchlax.

I'm also enjoying Aerodactyl quite a bit. Everyone uses the Stealth Rock variant, but I have more recently opted for the Hone Claws variant, which can do some serious damage. Aerodactyl outspeeds the entire tier bar Accelgor, who doesn't OHKO with Hidden Power Rock / Ice, while Aerodactyl OHKOs in return with Stone Edge. The EdgeQuake combo when used in conjunction with Aqua Tail, gives Aerodactyl fantastic coverage, as a +1 LO Aqua Tail 2HKOs Claydol :o

Then again Claydol is literally the shittiest mon in RU right now........

One more lovely underrated mon is Sandslash. Sandslash is one of the few mons that can both set up Stealth Rock and use Rapid Spin. It has a great Defense stat as well as an above average Attack stat, so it isn't exactly useless outside of spinning. Claydol is wayy to weak and pathetic for my liking, and Sandslash seemed to fit the bill perfectly.

 

[Molk]

a pokemon i find to be underrated is kangaskhan, i mean cause of scrappy it can easily spam STAB Double-Edge along with hazards spam to be very hard to wall, in the end a combination of decent bulk, pretty good attack, and STAB Double edge makes it very good offensively