ok hello everyone it's been a while since my last post but today i'd like to talk about a potentially broken pokemon that's residing in RU right now, thundurus.
(pillar men intensifies)
jokes aside, thundurus entered the tier post-dlc 2 in november along with a slew of previous-UUs and managed to reclaim it's spot as a decent offensive presence even among these behemoths. now that the tier has settled down, it can finally flex its muscles and really do some damage.
what makes thundurus so good?
thundurus is one of the best wallbreakers/sweepers currently due to a variety of tools. it has a great setup move in nasty plot, a good movepool consisting of moves such as focus blast, psychic,dark pulse, knock off, grass knot and so on along with a great speed tier of which allows it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame including pokemon like zarude, cobalion, and so on. heavy duty boots is a further buff which enables bringing it in much easier because it doesn't lose a quarter of its health everytime it switches in just because stealth rocks are up.
why is thundurus problematic?
the problem with thundurus is that it's not limited to one set alone and has multiple viable sets, each with a different purpose. the infamous nasty plot set will remain infamous for blowing through teams at will after a single nasty plot but that's not all there is to it.
knock off+ 3 attacks has established itself as a great alternative, knocking off the item from most mons that come in to check it and function as a great cleaner in endgames as well.
a possible 3rd alternative has also appeared which uses knock off + u-turn(not volt switch hear me out) + 2 attacks to function as a pivot by using u-turn to heavily dent zarude and not lose momentum vs ground types that would like to come in on an electric move.
(some people have tried using bulk up thundurus to use that 115 base attack but because the strategy is still in its infancy i will not comment on it, just saying that bulk up thundurus exists)
now all the traits i've listed just correspond with the features of a good offensive mon- strength, versatility and heavy duty boots. so you might ask, "blitz, why the hell are you rambling about this?" and my answer would be- its movepool.
it's no secret that thundurus has a great movepool but what makes it a problem is how it manages to beat most of its checks just by using a certain coverage move. for example, ground types such as Seismitoad fold to grass knot, steelix dies to a +2 focus blast and the specially defensive behemoth that is registeel takes 75-89% from focus blast after one nasty plot.
even among the various grass types that usually check electrics, no one is safe.
tier king zarude is OHKOed by focus blast after thundurus sets up nasty plot and is 2HKOed by U-turn,
dhelmise is a 2HKO from dark pulse if running colbur berry and is an OHKO if not,
offensive roserade is 2HKOed by thundurus before nasty plot and is an OHKO after nasty plot
while max specially defensive assault vest reuniclus can stomach any hit from nasty plot thundurus, knock off sets exploit it greatly by knocking off assault vest and opening up the game for its teammates.
of course, there are only 4 moveslots on a pokemon which means not all of these moves can be run, but they give thundurus a big advantage in the fact that it can pick what checks it and what doesn't.
thundurus also gets a variety of openings to enter the match as it can come in on pokemon like togekiss and bulky waters such as seismitoad, etc.
it's immunity to stealth rocks due to heavy duty boots further augments this by making switching in even easier.
however, i believe thundurus does not deserve to be quickbanned for the following reasons.
-it has middling bulk of 79/70/80 which, while not terrible, still means it is 2HKOed by many offensive pokemon that also dominate the meta.
-while 111 base speed is great, it leaves thundurus outsped by threats such as zygarde 10%,and raikou, the former of which can OHKO it with banded outrage.
- it is also outsped by scarfers who can revenge kill it even if they are unable to switch in to thundurus.
- lastly, even though it can bypass its checks using a coverage move, it can only accomodate up to 4 moves, leaving it in a state of 4 moveslot syndrome.
after all of this information has been laid out, i believe that thundurus, while not obviously broken, is problematic enough to warrant a suspect test in the near future and more discussion on its effect on the meta should occur.
thanks for reading and if you differ from my opinion, feel free to voice it!
CALCS
(kek give likes now ty)
(pillar men intensifies)
jokes aside, thundurus entered the tier post-dlc 2 in november along with a slew of previous-UUs and managed to reclaim it's spot as a decent offensive presence even among these behemoths. now that the tier has settled down, it can finally flex its muscles and really do some damage.
what makes thundurus so good?
thundurus is one of the best wallbreakers/sweepers currently due to a variety of tools. it has a great setup move in nasty plot, a good movepool consisting of moves such as focus blast, psychic,dark pulse, knock off, grass knot and so on along with a great speed tier of which allows it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame including pokemon like zarude, cobalion, and so on. heavy duty boots is a further buff which enables bringing it in much easier because it doesn't lose a quarter of its health everytime it switches in just because stealth rocks are up.
why is thundurus problematic?
the problem with thundurus is that it's not limited to one set alone and has multiple viable sets, each with a different purpose. the infamous nasty plot set will remain infamous for blowing through teams at will after a single nasty plot but that's not all there is to it.
knock off+ 3 attacks has established itself as a great alternative, knocking off the item from most mons that come in to check it and function as a great cleaner in endgames as well.
a possible 3rd alternative has also appeared which uses knock off + u-turn(not volt switch hear me out) + 2 attacks to function as a pivot by using u-turn to heavily dent zarude and not lose momentum vs ground types that would like to come in on an electric move.
(some people have tried using bulk up thundurus to use that 115 base attack but because the strategy is still in its infancy i will not comment on it, just saying that bulk up thundurus exists)
now all the traits i've listed just correspond with the features of a good offensive mon- strength, versatility and heavy duty boots. so you might ask, "blitz, why the hell are you rambling about this?" and my answer would be- its movepool.
it's no secret that thundurus has a great movepool but what makes it a problem is how it manages to beat most of its checks just by using a certain coverage move. for example, ground types such as Seismitoad fold to grass knot, steelix dies to a +2 focus blast and the specially defensive behemoth that is registeel takes 75-89% from focus blast after one nasty plot.
even among the various grass types that usually check electrics, no one is safe.
tier king zarude is OHKOed by focus blast after thundurus sets up nasty plot and is 2HKOed by U-turn,
dhelmise is a 2HKO from dark pulse if running colbur berry and is an OHKO if not,
offensive roserade is 2HKOed by thundurus before nasty plot and is an OHKO after nasty plot
while max specially defensive assault vest reuniclus can stomach any hit from nasty plot thundurus, knock off sets exploit it greatly by knocking off assault vest and opening up the game for its teammates.
of course, there are only 4 moveslots on a pokemon which means not all of these moves can be run, but they give thundurus a big advantage in the fact that it can pick what checks it and what doesn't.
thundurus also gets a variety of openings to enter the match as it can come in on pokemon like togekiss and bulky waters such as seismitoad, etc.
it's immunity to stealth rocks due to heavy duty boots further augments this by making switching in even easier.
however, i believe thundurus does not deserve to be quickbanned for the following reasons.
-it has middling bulk of 79/70/80 which, while not terrible, still means it is 2HKOed by many offensive pokemon that also dominate the meta.
-while 111 base speed is great, it leaves thundurus outsped by threats such as zygarde 10%,and raikou, the former of which can OHKO it with banded outrage.
- it is also outsped by scarfers who can revenge kill it even if they are unable to switch in to thundurus.
- lastly, even though it can bypass its checks using a coverage move, it can only accomodate up to 4 moves, leaving it in a state of 4 moveslot syndrome.
after all of this information has been laid out, i believe that thundurus, while not obviously broken, is problematic enough to warrant a suspect test in the near future and more discussion on its effect on the meta should occur.
thanks for reading and if you differ from my opinion, feel free to voice it!
CALCS
at +2
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 364-430 (139.4 - 164.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 528-622 (150.4 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Dhelmise: 186-219 (57.4 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Dhelmise: 372-438 (114.8 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 532-626 (150.2 - 176.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 274-324 (75.2 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 153-181 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 364-430 (139.4 - 164.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 528-622 (150.4 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Dhelmise: 186-219 (57.4 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Dhelmise: 372-438 (114.8 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Steelix: 532-626 (150.2 - 176.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 274-324 (75.2 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 153-181 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
normal
252 SpA Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 182-216 (69.7 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Thundurus Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 428-508 (103.3 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 264-312 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Reuniclus: 200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 182-216 (69.7 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Thundurus Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 428-508 (103.3 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 264-312 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Reuniclus: 200-236 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
defensive calcs
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 328-387 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Zarude Darkest Lariat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 177-208 (59.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 172-204 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 141-166 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
note: these are not all the relevant defensive calcs in relation to thundurus, they are only here to give one an idea of thundurus's bulk
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 328-387 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Zarude Darkest Lariat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 177-208 (59.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 172-204 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 141-166 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
note: these are not all the relevant defensive calcs in relation to thundurus, they are only here to give one an idea of thundurus's bulk
(kek give likes now ty)
Last edited: