Metagame NP: RU Stage 2 - Lights Out (September shifts, Heracross banned)

[Setendo]

Personally, I'm quite excited at the idea of Exploud dropping into the tier. It's always been a personal favorite of mine, even if last gen it was explicitly outclassed by Swellow. A Scrappy Boomburst hit a bunch of the tier for big damage, and it has the coverage to hit its resists for big damage. Surf/Hydro Pump for Rock-types, Fire Blast for Steel-types, and Focus Blast if you like missing if you don't want to waste a move slot. You could even run a mixed or a physical set to catch some of its checks off-guard.

I think an element that could be explored is the fact that it has a free move slot (or two if you opt for Focus Miss) Most people just opt for Sleep Talk, but I think there are some other options that could be worth exploring, especially if you're willing to forgo Choice Specs. Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, and more are all at its disposal. Fake Tears cuts the opponents Special Defense Stat in half, turning that switch-in into a very vulnerable target. These are more niche options, to be sure, but I still think they might be worth exploring. I wish it got some kind of good set-up move, though. At the moment he has... Work Up and Power-Up Punch (It doesn't even get Flame Charge ;-;). I think the Specs set will still probably be best, but I still want to experiment with other options.

It could very well turn out that Exploud is gonna stay UU and this entire post was for naught, but I felt like typing it up anyways.

 

[Just_Aaron]

Galarian Tank (Slowbro-Galar) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 240 HP / 224 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Sludge Bomb
- Grass Knot
- Fire Blast / Focus Blast

Theorycrafting I little bit about this mon. While not on the same levels as his Kantonian cousins, Galarianbro's typing and Regenerator could make it a good user of Assault Vest imo.

Defensive Calcs

252 SpA Salazzle Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 144-171 (36.8 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Rotom-Mow Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 114-135 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Flamethrower vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 141-166 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 304-358 (77.7 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Psychic Fangs vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Slowbro-Galar: 156-184 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 113-134 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Ribombee Bug Buzz vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 159-187 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Slowbro-Galar: 273-322 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 164-194 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Mudsdale Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Slowbro-Galar: 272-324 (69.5 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Frosmoth Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 127-151 (32.4 - 38.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 144-169 (36.8 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Duraludon Flash Cannon vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro-Galar: 166-196 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Offensive Calcs

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salazzle: 396-468 (142.9 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Mow: 248-294 (102.9 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Exeggutor-Alola: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 664-784 (254.4 - 300.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ribombee: 354-416 (135.6 - 159.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonlee: 242-288 (100.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 288-342 (81.3 - 96.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 276-328 (64.7 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Ice Scales Frosmoth: 158-186 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Vanilluxe: 250-296 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Vanilluxe: 272-322 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 488-576 (139 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

224+ SpA Slowbro-Galar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Duraludon: 404-476 (143.7 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However I'm aware that the new drops would likely shift the entire metagame, so the calcs may be irrelevant lol. But I still think this could find a good defensive niche.

 

[atomicllamas]

shifts

Araquanid moved from UU to RU
Arcanine moved from UU to RU
Blastoise moved from UU to RU
Bronzong moved from UU to RU
Clawitzer moved from UU to RU
Comfey moved from UU to RU
Copperajah moved from UU to RU
Dragalge moved from UU to RU
Druddigon moved from UU to RU
Escavalier moved from UU to RU
Exploud moved from UU to RU
Gardevoir moved from UU to RU
Gigalith moved from UU to RU
Golisopod moved from UU to RU
Klefki moved from UU to RU
Lucario moved from UU to RU
Lycanroc moved from UU to RU
Mamoswine moved from UU to RU ?
Mantine moved from UU to RU
Milotic moved from UU to RU
Poliwrath moved from UU to RU
Reuniclus moved from UU to RU
Rhyperior moved from UU to RU
Seismitoad moved from UU to RU
Sharpedo moved from UU to RU
Sirfetch’d moved from UU to RU
Slowbro-Galar moved from UU to RU
Snorlax moved from UU to RU
Steelix moved from UU to RU
Umbreon moved from UU to RU
Zoroark moved from UU to RU

Torkoal moved from RU to OU

Or for those that prefer visuals:

The tier is essentially unrecognizable but we got several new Water types, new steel types, several rockers. I personally think a lot of BL mons could be free too rn (speaking for me not the council). I assume Mamoswine and Diggersby will not be dropped bc it was recently unbanned. Looking forward to the ladder though :pepesub:

 

[Feliburn]

 

[HailFall]

One answer to a lot of threatening mons from that list: bulky Poliwrath.

Poliwrath @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Circle Throw
- Liquidation
- Darkest Lariat / Ice Punch

(You probably run some speed, I just havent closely looked into how much.)

This serves as a nice check to Sharpedo, Blastoise, Clawitzer, Zoroark, Araquanid, and Lycanroc thanks to its typing, water absorb, and decent bulk. It can come in on scalds and liquidations to heal up, or sustain itself with Drain Punch. I'm excited to give it a try when the new ladder is up.

Calcs

252+ Atk Sharpedo Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 141-167 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 156-184 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Zoroark Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 117-138 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 148-175 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Just_Aaron]

One answer to a lot of threatening mons from that list: bulky Poliwrath.

Poliwrath @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Circle Throw
- Liquidation
- Darkest Lariat / Ice Punch

(You probably run some speed, I just havent closely looked into how much.)

This serves as a nice check to Sharpedo, Blastoise, Clawitzer, Zoroark, Araquanid, and Lycanroc thanks to its typing, water absorb, and decent bulk. It can come in on scalds and liquidations to heal up, or sustain itself with Drain Punch. I'm excited to give it a try when the new ladder is up.

Calcs

252+ Atk Sharpedo Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 141-167 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 156-184 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Zoroark Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 117-138 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Poliwrath: 148-175 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I actually had this set in the making lol:

Substitute + Bulk Up (Poliwrath) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Liquidation / Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Poliwrath: 79-94 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Subs up, Bulk Up, profit. You can go with either Drain Punch or Liquidation for STABs, but Darkest Lariat is most to not get walled by Jellicent and Dhelmise.

 

[Gekokeso]

One mon I thought of talking about:

Without Z-moves this guy might finally be able to see the light of day in RU. Good spk + decent coverage + nasty plot could make this a powerful and scary sweeper in the hands of a skillful player. As for mons that it could ilusion itself into I’m not entirely sure but a good candidate for it to disguise itself into might be drapion, who can lure in steel types in order for Zoruark to set up nasty plot and hit with flamethrower or focus miss.

+2 252 SpA Zoroark Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 464-548 (131 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 350-412 (98.8 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Zoroark Focus Blast vs. 172 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 448-528 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Klefki: 320-378 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 320-380 (94.6 - 112.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This is just timid by the way

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Free the Shift

View attachment 265768

Mons straight ass

Hmm, I actually think that it should be freed alongside Ninetales, because Drought was apparently what made this thing broken back in the day. We have Gigalith to somewhat balance Sun itself now, but Gigalith IIRC was there was Shiftry was initially banned. Is Ninetales Sun that much worse than Torkoal Sun?

 

[Denial]

Hello, i played one game so i thougth ill speculate a bit and talk about the new mons.

Previous viable RU Pokemon from previous gen / meta

I dont think a lot has changed for those honestly. Araquanid still prefers Lefties over Boots, Arca and Golisopod are prob gonna abuse well the boots (also Arcanine now gets Teleport, it migth be abusable in some defensive set but who knows). Specs Dragalge and Band Rhyperior are prob gonna be more common now, and Gardevoir is gonna be a bitch with Mystical Fire. Also Offensive Seismitoad migth be usable now with Power Whip? Idk.

Previous non viable RU Pokemon from previous gen / meta

Im very confused about Blastoise, defensive sets are prob gonna be meh and offensive sets may be wack, maybe it can use something like Terrain Pulse + Pincurchin? Same goes for Clawitzer. Comfey unfortunately dropped with all the Steels, i really doubt it can be good. Some kind of Leech Seed set migth be annoying to deal with tho. Druddigon can be interesting both offensivelly and defensivelly, it can setup rocks vs Xatu which is p cool if that mon stays relevant (hopefully not). Exploud may or not be good, the meta is kinda slow so it shouldnt have too many problems clicking Boomburst. Lycanrock is gonna be a decent Lycanrock-Dusk replacement, especially now with Close Combat. Poliwrath has an interesting defensive typing, but i dont know how much its gonna work.

Previous banned RU Pokemon

Of all those Pokemon, im only interested in testing Zoroark. Lucario has no counters with both special and physical being amazing sets, Reuni can do everything while being amazing at it, Cmind + 2 Attacks / Acid Armor, Trick Room, AV, Sharpedo is just hard to switch into while getting a boost in speed every turn (very balanced). I dont think Zoroark is gonna be balanced at all with Boots + U-turn, but i wouldnt mind giving it a try.

New ever RU Pokemon

Klefki is a cool addition, good defensive typing, prio Twave and Spikes and good bulk. I cant see this Pokemon being remotely bad. Sirfecthd is Pangoro but if a lil faster and with First Impression. Bye bye. Slowbro-Galar is kinda wack, the bulk is still good but not as good as the Kanto form, and the typing works only in some matchups. Definetly a viable Pokèmon but i dont know if im ready to call it good.

Pokemon i would retest from RUBL

Not gonna talk too much in this section, but i believe most of those Pokemon could be worth retesting within the new meta. Barraskewda, Indeedee-F, Linoone and Ninetales are no brainer unbans imo, with all the new bulky waters, steel types and Gigalith dropping back, i believe all of those would be healthy and not near problematic. Everything else is just theorymonning, but i believe giving them a chance is more than fair.

 

[Just_Aaron]

Comfey unfortunately dropped with all the Steels, i really doubt it can be good. Some kind of Leech Seed set migth be annoying to deal with tho.

Pretty sure Leech Seed doesn't get priority from Triage (or at least I think I read that the other day on Bulbapedia)

 

[Monky25]

RU got absolutely nuked, but in the good way. Nearly every drop, if not every drop, will become solid parts of the tier and likely edge out all the previous tier staples hanging around the 10% usage mark. Instead of giving a run down on every drop, I instead want to talk about potential retests since I enjoy talking about which mons could fit in the metagame. Some RUBLs would still be too much, even thought i think we should retest all of them. (Btw mamowsine and diggersby dont count due to an error since diggersby was UUBL and mamoswine was only released halfway through the month. Thank goodness we dont get absolutely creamed by mamo)

Drampa- Drama was banned due lack of dragon resists and sheer wallbreaking potential. However, we were returned steelix, copperajah, and snorlax as pokemon that can take it's stabs and force out choice locked variants. In addition, we get more specially defensive pokemon like milotic, araquanid, umbreon, reuniculus, and bronzong who can all take it's stabs and force it out. Moreover, we get fighters with machamp, lucario, and sirfetch'd, steels like escavalier, and fairies like comfey, klefki, and gardevoir all beat it due to it's low speed. Drampa should definitely be retested and I believe it will be fine for the tier now.

Barbaracle- Prolly still ban worthy, shell smash + water, rock, and fighting coverage smashes everything. We got some things that make it a bit more manageable but this is one of the few mons I would be chill with not being retested.

Goodra- One I'm unsure of. There are more steels and specially defensive mons to take dracos, but it's colorful coverage and neutral dragon typing let's it live lots of neutral stab attacks. Physical attackers like machamp, pangoro, sirfetch'd, and rhyperior take advantage of it's base 70 defense stat but i still feel like it'll be strong. This is one of those mons where even thought they are banworthy, considering it's been months since this thing was first banned, we should still see how it does in the tier, so retest.

Indeede (M &F)- Like Drampa, there are many specially defensive mons in the tier now that can take their hits. However, specs expanding force is dumb. Indeede Male I feel is too much, umbreon cucks it but it can easily be a problem still. Indeede F could work though due to it's lack of an offensive presence compared to her male counterpart. I'd retest both, but I think Indeede M may be too much while I could go either way with Indeede F.

Inteleon- Another mon that is more on the banworthy side but may or may not be re testable. We get lots of bulk waters in araquanid, milotic, seismitoad, and poliwrath (kinda) alongside mons like gastrodon and jellicent to block it. Howevr, the metagame is much slower, allowing inteleon to fire off specs hydros like it's nothing. Its 70/65/65 bulk is pretty crappy, but not much can revenge it or survive a hit from it to KO back. Could be retested or not, still would likely end up in RUBL again.

Linoone- With the return on mons like copperajah and steelix alongside new stuff like bronzong, escavalier, and rhypeiror, I can see linnone being manageable. Much more mons can stomach a +6 extreme speed and beat it back due to it's frailty. Also, this thing suffers from 4MSS, wanting stomping tantrum, seed bomb, gunk shot, and throat chop, but can only fit 2 of these in it's set. One of the most manageable ones in my opinion.

Other retests- Ninetales is a no brainer here, more specially defensive mons and gigalith returning make it much more easier. Not much to say.
Another is Machamp, the new fairies and stronger epsciall attackers in the tier, it would be much more easy to check. Balance has gotten stronger with new drops that can take blows from machamp. A definite retest and a likely unban. Barraskweda should be retested due to more bulky waters means barraskweda has a harder time sweeping. Lastly, the tier is ever present with fire and flying types, alongside new steels dropping, that we should retest virizion as well.

 

[phantom]

ok, it’s time to cool it with the one liners. I get that everyone is excited over the tier shifts, but please make sure your posts are constructive and actually contribute to this thread. Joke posts are fine in moderation, but clearly this thread has gone a bit off the rails.

As far as tiering updates are concerned: the council is currently voting on two of the current drops. Expect the results to be announced later today. The council is also discussing the RUBL mons and will take a vote on the entire banlist after the first vote concludes. Expect those results sometime on sunday.

 

[HailFall]

My current musings on the biggest problem mons:

Sirfetch'd definitely needs to go. The wallbreaking power it brings to the tier is above and beyond with essentially perfect coverage and crazy power in addition to 80 BP priority.

Sharpedo is pretty crazy, but doesnt seem as unmanageable as sirfetchd as it can be at least partially checked. It probably deserves a quickban, but i wouldnt mind if it got another day or so just to be 100% sure.

Zoroark is another mon that a lot of people talk about. However, its NP sets lack priority and its SD sets lack a way to hit fairy types. It certainly has the potential to be broken, but I'd like to give it a few days to see if we can find ways to adapt. Its quite skill intensive to fully take advantage of Illusion, managing your party's positions and everything beyond the initial ordering of your party. I think its cool to have complicated mechanics like that for a skilled player to take advantage of. It isn't all that bad to build for all things said and done, but I can see it becoming problematic. I guess this is just a long winded way of saying "give it more time"

Lucario was something a lot of people thought would be broken. I cant deny its a super good pokemon, but i would actually go out on a limb here and say lucario is fine for now. Sets like band are reasonable to check, and SD has a serious case of 4mss. You either miss espeed for revenge killers, crunch for ghosts, or meteor mash for fairies. While it certainly still manages to function like this, I'd say it doesnt feel super overwhelming to deal with to me. I could see it getting suspect tested in the future, but I dont feel its a pressing enough issue to deserve an outright quickban.

 

[Setendo]

Man, I can't wait to completely relearn the tier.

In all seriousness, I'm pretty excited and terrified for these tier shifts. I guess I'll give my thoughts on some of the recent drops.

Snorlax is back. Yay.

Steelix is also here again. Can't wait to get blindsided by Iron Defense + Body Press even though it's the only set I ever run into

Sirfetch'd is definitely going to get banned. It's literally just a stronger and faster Pangoro, trading a Dark STAB and a stronger Poison move for more powerful priority and better stats. I don't see this thing lasting.

Arcanine seems like a pretty cool addition to the tier. Heavy Duty Boots definitely alleviates its main weakness, and having another Teleport Pokemon is pretty cool, especially one with recovery.

Speaking of Teleport, Slowbro-G is a pretty nice addition since it gets Regenerator. Its bulk is less than its Kantonian brethren, but it'll probably still be enough to make good use of Regenerator and Teleport.

The previous king of RU, Gigalith, is back, and will probably do the same thing it did before. I hated it while it was here, but honestly, it's kinda cool to have it again. We may actually see Sand Teams become a legitimate threat with Lycanroc's Sand Rush and newfound access to Close Combat.

On the topic of weather, I've seen people throwing around the idea of retesting Ninetales and/or Shfitry, along with a slew of the Pokemon. For the time being, I only wanna talk about those two. I honestly can only see one or the other re-entering the tier. Ninetales has a pretty good check in the form of Gigalith (although we'll have to see if Scorching Sand and its burn chance may be a bit too much) and Shiftry is pretty middling without Sun support. But Ninetales + Shiftry is probably too much for the tier to handle even with all these drops. Personally, I'd rather see Shiftry re-enter the tier (and probably drop to NU) than Ninetales, but that's my own bias. Point is, I doubt we'd be getting both.

This tier shift really shook up the metagame a ton, and it'll be interesting to see how things develop from here. It's definitely going to look like a completely different ball game.

 

[phantom]

Following a council vote, Lucario, Reuniclus, and Sirfetchd are now banned from SS RU!

reasoning

ban: ajna, atomicllamas, averardo, bebo, evigaro, feliburn, mraldo, odr, phantom
no ban: n/a

Lucario possesses insane sweeping potential with its SD set. Between its STABs and Extreme Speed, Lucario is capable of breaking through every mon bar Jellicent, allowing it to destroy defensive teams while clean sweeping offense. Its amazing typing and passable bulk enables it to set up on passive defensive mons and exploit choice-locked attackers to get a free SD boost. Outside of conventional SD sets, Lucario can run Nasty Plot sets that are capable of muscling through the few mons that can handle SD. The severe lack of defensive counter play combined with the amazing sweeping potential of boosted Exteme Speeds makes Lucario far too much for the tier to handle.

reasoning

ban: ajna, atomicllamas, averardo, bebo, feliburn, mraldo, odr, phantom
no ban: evigaro

Reuniclus’s Calm Mind set remains difficult for defensive teams to hold down. With access to Stored Power and nearly any coverage move it could possibly need, defensive counterplay for Reuniclus is extremely limited. Many of the Dark-types in the tier simply lack the strength to overpower it while haze users can fall depending on the coverage Reuniclus runs. Between Magic Guard, high defenses, and a near-boundless movepool, Reuniclus simply demands too much to be reasonably dealt with.

reasoning

ban: ajna, atomicllamas, averardo, bebo, evigaro, feliburn, mraldo, odr, phantom
no ban: n/a

Sirfetch'd brings way too much to the table offensively for the council to keep it in the RU tier. Scrappy is insanely good for it, letting it spam CC relatively freely especially with a strong Knock Off in the back. If it wasn't enough though, the fact that it has Brave Bird in its arsenal is a pretty big deal in a tier where Vileplume is considered a fine response to most fighting types, and access to a strong First Impression makes it also a surprisingly problematic revenge killer, especially if you are forced in a position where you can lose a key mon to it but also cannot afford to lose that prediction. AND it also has Swords Dance and Poison Jab to kill fairies, with a fairly decent speed tier that lets it outpace most of our slower fighting types. All in all, there's realistically no RU tier for now where we think Sirfetch'd isn't too much.

tagging Marty and The Immortal to ban Lucario, Reuniclus, and Sirfetchd from RU. Thanks!

 

[gglrg]

Lol that was fast

 

[MayaKkaruna]

RU council had no chile

 

[ringtomb]

I think it goes without saying that some RUBL mons should be re-evaluated, personally, Drampa seems to be enough for the tier now that Steelix and Copperajah are back, and with the increased power level of the tier exceeding Drampa's capabilities of dominating.

 

[okispokis]

And so the DLC cascade makes its way to RU. With a bunch of brand new mons to choose from, here are some initial impressions I had.

DLC
Clawitzer: While thoroughly outclassed as a Special wallbreaker in UU, RU provides the freedom for Claw to perform as a devastating Specs user. With boosted Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere, Ice Beam and momentum in slow U- turn or the new Flip Turn, I can see this guy making a fairly big impact. I don’t think it will be overwhelming since its moves all have switch ins, but that power is nothing to sneeze at.

Comfey: The lei appreciates not being as hard- pressed by competition, but its inability to hit Steel means that even in RU it might be better suited to support than offense.

Dragalge: Definitely excited to see how this one does. I honestly think Alge is a solid UU mon, but in RU its Adapted power, TSpikes and slow Flip Turn look poised to make this a staple.

Druddigon: Drud will likely repeat his gimmicky but good role as a Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet Rocks lead, heaping punishment on physical menaces, but the lower power level may also let him use Mold Breaker to bypass Xatu. Add good utility in Glare and D Tail, and I honestly hope Drud is RU material.

Exploud: Speaker go boom lol. Pretty self-explanatory.

Klefki: And just like that, Prankster Screens have come to RU. This alone carries huge potential for HO in RU. Although Key has more than just screens; Spikes and Prankster status provide diverse utility, while Play Rough ensures Dark types can’t just go “no u”.

Lycanroc: The rocky wolf seems poised to repeat what lets its little brother see sizable success in UU. Good potential as a Bander, all out attacker, late game win con with SD or suicide Rocks lead.

Poliwrath: I’ve already seen some posts on the frog, so I’ll keep it brief. Wrath looks to be a solid answer to other strong Water types that just dropped, and can be a bulky attacker or set up with BU.

Sharpedo: This thing looks no less scary than the last two gens. Wouldn’t be surprised if it gets banned next.

G. Slowbro: Yet another mon that will largely prosper due to no longer having to compete (vs Slowking). This thing will probably default to Regen + Teleport, as three attacks + NP are often all that’s needed to make it threatening.

Zoroark: I think the loss of Z moves will finally allow the fox to not be broken in RU. Definitely a strong attacker, but no one set will ever have everything Zoro wants (see previous post), which may be enough to keep it down.

Pushed Down
Araquanid: Probably will be solid, although Webs aren’t as potentially game changing as in UU since a lot of the meta is much slower.

Arcanine: A solid pivot with Boots, good bulk and recovery. Not much more to say.

Blastoise: Toise largely lost its UU thunder when Cloyster got knocked down and completely outclassed it as a Smasher. As such, Blast will likely try to stick to its newfound tricks in RU. It can also be used as a Spinner thanks to FT, but it’s probably outclassed at removal due to no recovery.

Bronzong: Hell yeah Zong’s gonna be good. Its defenses are great by RU standards, with the bulk to function as a game- long defensive mon and be a damn good Rock setter.

Gardevoir: A fast Scarfer in a tier largely lacking speed, Gar looks to be a key face on offensive teams. Gar possesses a solid attacking core between its STABS and Mystical Fire or Focus Miss for Steel, along with either Trick to cripple walls or Healing Wish to support a teammate more directly. However, I’m not sure she’ll last; not because Gar is too much for RU, but because should Rachi get banned from UU, Gar would likely rise back up to take over as a Scarfed revenge killer.

Golisopod: A strong attacker with Spikes, Boots will allow Pod to be even better than last Gen.

Milotic: The new face of defensive waters in RU. MS allows Milo to fend off some scary attackers, will also not being too hard to wear down. The bonus threat of Comp Milo will probably be enough to make most teams choose Spin over Defog.

Rhyperior: Rhydon+

Seismotoad: An alternative Water absorber, and with Rocks, Knock Off and STAB EQ. What’s not to like?

Umbreon: Another good balanced defensive mon. It would probably like more utility to work with, but that bulk alone will make it a fine RU mon.

Every other drop is a return, so you can just look up their previous performances to get how they work. Not sure which mons should see a retest. I’m happy to see that all the drops (except maybe Comfey) are looking at least decent in RU.

 

[Just_Aaron]

and a new momentum tool in slow Flip Turn

Just wanted to mention that I think U-Turn is still prefered on Clawitzer, since many of your switch-ins are immune to water (Jellicent, Vaporeon, Gastrodon, and the new Seismitoad and Poliwrath)

 

[TheTraininator]

Speaking of Teleport, Slowbro-G is a pretty nice addition since it gets Regenerator. Its bulk is less than its Kantonian brethren, but it'll probably still be enough to make good use of Regenerator and Teleport.

G. Slowbro: Yet another mon that will largely prosper due to no longer having to compete (vs Slowking). This thing will probably default to Regen + Teleport, as three attacks are often all that’s needed to make it threatening.

Unfortunately, Galarian Slowbro doesn’t learn Teleport; that’s part of the major reason Kantonian Slowbro and Slowking are better. The Kantonian Slowpoke line only learns Teleport through Gen 1 VC and LGPE, and Galarian Slowpoke/Slowbro don’t exist in those games.

 

[Kevun]

Toxicroak was already really good, but it is one of the biggest winners of the tier shift. Toxicroak can easily take advantage of the new and returning bulky waters like Milotic and Mantine (without flying coverage), and is one of the best offensive switch ins to Golisopod. This gives Toxicroak a ton of opportunities to either set up or just start throwing out attacks; either way, it's incredibly threatening to common defensive mons/cores like Vileplume, Mantine, Bronzong (with either some chip or dark type coverage), Snorlax, Gigalith, etc. as most standard fighting type checks can't stop it.

Not sure how long Zoroark and Sharpedo, two of the biggest offensive threats in the tier, will stay in the tier, but for as long as they remain, Toxicroak is a solid check with priority vacuum wave. In fact, it is basically the only offensive check to Sharpedo other than Mach Punch Hitmonlee. It's also a good check situationally to a bunch of new and returning threats like Lycanroc and Snorlax. Scarf also still seems good, though I haven't personally tried it. A lot of meta trends are likely to be favorable to it as well, with good checks like Charizard decreasing in usage.

It still has the issues its always has, being blessed with great defensive typing but cursed with poor bulk, and having to make substantial trade offs between SD/NP sets and running either priority or coverage so it can be pretty matchup dependent, but the shift definitely helped it a ton. The tier is likely going to look very different soon if stuff from RUBL is retested, but for now Toxicroak is looking pretty good.

 

[EviGaro]

For the second part of this very fun weekend, we voted on what RUBL mons should be unbanned and what should stay in the banlist! Here are the results of this vote:

Of all the mons, Barraskewda, Drampa, Goodra, Indeedee-F, Inteleon, Linoone, Ninetales, Sigilyph and Virizion are the ones with enough unban votes, therefore they all drop back to RU. Tagging The Immortal and Marty to make this happen, thank you!

Worth noting also that like we said before, these mons are currently RU, not RUBL as retests. Therefore, they will be allowed in whatever tour is played this week. This doesn't mean however that we won't vote on them if Council members raise them as a potential issue in the coming weeks, and as always, opinions on their impact from the community is welcome!

 

[Monky25]

So two questions for whoever is able to answer them

1. For the RUBL unbans, just to make sure, they're just straight up unbans and no retest-like voting a week later right? However, any of the unbans can still be voted on should they be problematic, just not all of them?

2. Are these the only RUBL unbans taking place or could there possibly be more depending on how the metagame develops in the coming weeks?Most of the ones that stayed banned were pretty obvious, the only 2 I could see being retested is shiftry, which reopens the drought debate, and machamp, who could be fine for the tier due to the amount of special attackers in the tier that could curb it, not to mention 2 of it's best counters in indeede-F and sigilyph got unbanned. Thanks to whoever is able to answer these questions

Just for this post not be questions, I'll give my stance on the top pokemon in the meta. Rhyperior, bronzong, druddigon, and seismitoad all breather defensive life in the tier, giving solid alternates to rockers like rune, steelix, duralduon, and copperjah. Zoroark looks to be a strong threat. but not too broken due to having drawbacks whether going physical or special. It also needs a boost to put in solid work, plus the lack of Z-moves means zoroark has a good chance of seeing the light of day in Ru after all. I'm enjoying the return of escavalier, snorlax, gigalith, and mantine who will all be solid team options in the tier. Sharpedo is still stupid, it can rack up boosts, go wither physical or special, and proceeds to sweep your team. To me it's the only really banworthy pokemon in the tier at the moment.

Really loving the new RU tier, its basically pre-DLC UU (which i enjoyed) mixed in with the top dogs of RU. It's nice to see the pokemon separated by usage interact with each other in this brand new tier.

 

[phantom]

So two questions for whoever is able to answer them

1. For the RUBL unbans, just to make sure, they're just straight up unbans and no retest-like voting a week later right? However, any of the unbans can still be voted on should they be problematic, just not all of them?

2. Are these the only RUBL unbans taking place or could there possibly be more depending on how the metagame develops in the coming weeks?Most of the ones that stayed banned were pretty obvious, the only 2 I could see being retested is shiftry, which reopens the drought debate, and machamp, who could be fine for the tier due to the amount of special attackers in the tier that could curb it, not to mention 2 of it's best counters in indeede-F and sigilyph got unbanned. Thanks to whoever is able to answer these questions

Yeah they’re just unbans. We won’t be automatically revoting on them. If the council deems any of the unbans to still be problematic, someone can just nominate them to be voted on in the slate next week along with whatever else that needs to be looked at. There isn’t a hard limit as to how many can be revoted on next week. It really depends on how well they fit into the new meta.

Our foreseeable plans are to make sure the tier is balanced and ban anything that’s a problem for the tier. Beyond this vote, retests are not going to be a priority, but once the tier settles enough we may reconsider retesting one or two mons in RUBL. We likely won’t have another massive voting block like this again until DLC2, though.