Metagame NP: RU Stage 12: Summertime [Darmanitan Quickbanned]

[Guidorealmsmc]

Well, I guess you RU players haven't been so nice this year, a lot of fairly likely Christmas presents to UU this year. Probably should have stopped using Jolteon.^^

On a more serious note, what are your thoughts regarding the potential losses?


| 34 | Gligar | 6.008% |
| 41 | Chesnaught | 5.335% |
| 49 | Doublade | 3.872% |
| 51 | Froslass | 3.621% |
| 52 | Steelix-Mega | 3.491% |
| 55 | Rotom-Mow | 3.264% |
| 56 | Quagsire | 3.238% |
| 57 | Blastoise-Mega | 2.906% |

Gligar

This loss is going to be the biggest one as gligar is the best defensive mon in the tier as well as our best remover and a strong stealth rocker. Without it hazards will be even harder to remove as its the only remover to beat registeel. In addition many physical threats will be much harder to contain such as zygarde which loses one of its best check, and lycanroc won't be forced to use its z move against gligar and use it against something like a milotic or a bronzong below 75% health.

Chesnaught

Not as catastrophic a loss but, losing a wall that halts prominent physical threats such as zygarde, tyrantrum, lycanroc which is rising now due to meta traits favoring it, barbaracle(which needs aerial ace), and gatr. Not to mention virizion which is very good. Teams will resort to seismitoed as an alternative means to check some of the following mons excluding virizion.

Doublade

Losing doublade I feel will impact the meta in a very significant way. Teams will be more reliant on stuff like seismitoad to deal with toxicroak, fighting types will be much harder to reliably deal with, with stuff like cresselia being too passive to fit on offense easily teams are gonna rely on noivern to revenge kill them and stuff like sigilyph, necrozma, gardevoir, and offensive psychic types will be more depended on to deal with fighting types. Slurpuff also loves this because it loses its hard counter(although it still needs a lot of support, it loses 2 prominent counters/checks in steelix and doublade).

Steelix

Most of the stuff that applies to gligar and doublade in terms of checking a ton of stuff also applies to this so I'll keep it brief here. Tyrantrum is gonna see a sharp spike in usage as the best check to it is now gone, stuff like rhyperior and seismitoed will likely as rockers that check stuff that don't forfeit offensive presence like registeel and are much sturdier than queen and bronzong.

Rotom Mow

Not too sure about this but I don't think it will be a major loss for us. Just a okay mon has good role compression nothing too impressive

Losing blastoise

Losing this would cause chaos in the meta. By losing this and gligar hazard control would be way too unreliable and we'd be forced to resort to subpar removers like buzz or try to rely on magic bounce as a way to control them because the tier has 2 good removers.

 

[JustoonSmitts]

Finally, RU has a fast Electric-type that's actually good! If it's anything like Gen 6 OU, then Raikou will have a couple of sets it can run from Specs to Assault Vest, Calm Mind Z-Move, and Sub CM. The fact that Gligar and Chesnaught moved up to UU is a good thing for it since that's two less stops to Raikou's sweep.

 

[WMAR]

Gligar and Chesnaught are still ru, quick rises no longer exist so we keep these, Raikou for me might end up being too much since it has alot to beat this tier. we dont' really know since the ladder hasn't updated but hey im glad raikou dropped. lets see how raikou does

 

[MrAldo]

Hey guys, lets talk RAIKOU

For anyone who doesnt know, we got Raikou on recent tier shifts and we have been giving it a try to see how it fares in the metagame. Lets being with the main set that belongs been talking about all around and go with the other options that seem more viable atm.

Raikou @ Psychium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Extrasensory / Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt

CM + 3 Attacks set is the set that has been the center of attention and the one that gives Raikou the edge of a solid win condition. The extra slot of coverage hits Raikou the ability to bop many of its switch-ins since boltbeam coverage is simply not enough. No brainer really: Calm Mind to boost its SpA, the coverage move which will change the counterplay. Shattered Psyche mauls Virizion, Nidoqueen, Roserade, Dragalge and can hit neutral targets like Mega Ampharos and Seismitoad pretty hard. Aura Sphere forgoes the amazing speed stat (and gives you a bad nature) but provides you with Aura Sphere which is great to demolish other ground types like Mega Steelix and Rhyperior, and other steel types like Registeel. The boltbeam coverage is self explanatory and has been a classic for a couple of years now. Pretty cool setup (reminder that the rash raikou has to be shiny so prepare for an extra layer of mind games)

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Extrasensory / whatever coverage you may use here
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt

Assault Vest in general is considered a mediocre item to put in mons with no way of reliable recovery or that can take advantage of status somehow (ex: Guts Machamp) but Raikou can be a small exception to the rule. Good special sponge against stuff like Mega Blastoise, Noivern, and some Roserade sets that can provide momentum for offense which can be rather valuable in many teams. Pair it with Gardevoir or a Healing Wish user and the thing can be a valuable asset for a good amount of offenses despite its lack of self sustain. Use wisely.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

And last but not least important... this. Taking a page from the infamous Vincune (Protect Calm Mind Leftovers, just missing the sub but y'know Electric is an ass stab to have by itself) this set aims to primarly scout for moves and potentially pp stall the use of some moves with rather low pp. Electric is far more vulnerable typing defensively than water but given Raikou speed and calm mind boosting a spdef stat the possibility of pp stalling a special attacker is there. Protect also provides a way to see what choiced users decide to press and to get some extra recovery which is always nice.

Raikou is shaping to be good, but not super duper good as expected so maybe there is a chance Raikou can stay doing its thing. We will see so for now stay tuned.

Cheers!

 

[CryoGyro]

Raikou isn't striking me as an unreasonable addition in the slightest. The prevalence of the Stealth Rockin' Steels (regi zong lix) means Aura Sphere Fightinium is basically mandatory if it wants to wallbreak with any consistency, and that means it has to get outsped by Virizion and Zygarde-10%, which KO with ease and are commonplace. Other sets are consistently beaten one-on-one by those Steel-types (except for zong's gyro ball getting pressure stalled but that mon's not great anyway lol), and any Raikou set is plenty vulnerable to well-established revenge killing methods. Scarf Gardevoir's Psyshock is a 2HKO, all priority but Bullet Punch is neutral and uses Raikou's meh physical bulk, Zygarde-10% can risk the Speed tie and that's no fun, etc. It also needs at least two boosts to be a real offensive threat; the aforementioned Gardevoir, Grass-types, and broken AV Machamp can take most if not any +1 hit and deal solid damage back. Raikou's shaping up to be yet another solid offensive option that doesn't mandate anything silly in terms of counterplay.

 

[Nat]

I largely avoid posting in this subforum anymore, though feel this is a discussion that should be brought up ahead of time. Simply put, we're absolutely losing gligar & chesnaught with the coming shifts. Doublade is more than likely leaving too, if the trends from previous months continue. Subsequently, I've noticed discussion about whether virizion or zygarde-10% will require bans in the very different meta awaiting us. I'll tackle zydoge first. While ches hasn't exactly seen high usage in recent times, it does exist as one of the zydoge counters in the meta. More importantly, gligar leaving is a huge blow to defending against zydoge, as it was obviously the most used physically defensive glue in the tier. That being said, I don't think a quickban here is warranted. We still have defensive walls such as p2, cress, torterra, and mandi that can handle it. If anything it could be cool to see more usage out of p2. Golisopod/Milotic/Toad are all fair counters in certain scenarios too, though I'd say less so than p2/cress. I'd likely consider z-dd the more threatening of the two premier sets to counter, though this is arguably the case in the current meta too. Banded can often get interrupted by grass switch-ins to thousand arrows, or even an opponent sacking something to outrage and then trading with zydoge. There's a ton of plain old priority/scarfers/faster mons that still annoy zydoge, too. Moving on to viriz, it definitely becomes murkier waters as to whether a ban is warranted or not. Doublade leaving is massive for viriz, as it was easily the best counter in the meta. Cress is still a great counter, and golisopod also counters viriz decidedly well. Mandibuzz works well with brave bird, though you need it relatively healthy if viriz gets to +2. A few others to name off include uxie, whimsicott (it's decent atm i'd argue), dragalge, and intimidate arcanine. While the counters listed above I feel are more fringe, I think viriz is still a mon that's able to be dealt with by most teams. This isn't to mention everything that still offensively pressures it ofc. I could see it running a lot more fight-z if it stays, seeing as gligar/doublade won't exist anymore.

tldr: viriz and zydoge look scary with the coming tier changes. Zygarde absolutely won't need to be banned. Virizion is a lot more debatable, though I think we'll still be ok keeping it around. The offensive pressure within the tier combined with the still relevant walls should ultimately keep them both in check.

EDIT: I think it is worth mentioning since this convo is picking up steam that I support a Meloetta ban if anything. Too punishing late game, too many viable coverage moves, sets up on an annoying amount of stuff, etc. I hope to see this go or at least be considered if anything.

 

[KW]

After much inward deliberation I find myself compelled to make a most respectfully disagreeing with the conclusion drawn by Nat's above post in regards to Zygarde in the metagame. I believe that with the inevitable departure of Gligar impending, Zygarde should be considered as a candidate for a variety of reasons which I will attempt to outline my thinking on below. I am providing copious spacing in between short paragraphs not to lengthen the post unnecessarily but to make the separate points of my thinking more clear and quick for readers to follow.

The metagame has unquestionably changed in the little over a year it's been since Zygarde went through its first testing to be introduced to the tier. The meta back then was vastly different, centering around bulky spikestacking cores, with Miloitc Chesnaught and Gligar all being common sights. The metagame has thus shifted drastically, towards more offensive spikes builds being centered around Roserade, and Chesnaught has been all but dropped from usage and Gligar is now leaving. This significantly reduces the risk of using Zygarde, as teams with common choices that hard wall it are now extremely rare, and the nature of an offensive spikes meta is naturally beneficial to a fast offensive threat of a Pokemon like Zygarde.

Zygarde is not truly best defined as a versatile Pokemon since it can only truly pull off Choice Banded and Dragon Dance sets with little variation. The ability for Zygarde to Dragon Dance, however, is greatly beneficial to the CB set, as it can force the player opposing the Zygarde to stay in for fear of risking letting the Zygarde get a free Dragon Dance up, and ending the game or dealing too much damage for a winning position to be recovered. This means that in addition to weighing what coverage the Zygarde might click, the player must also weigh the chance of a Dragon Dance being set up (ex. in on a 60% Registeel) and must make the difficult choice between risking a free and often game losing DD or staying in on a CB attack and dying.

Of the relative hard checks remaining in the metagame, I would identify Porygon2, Cresselia, and Donphan. These are not completely bad or unviable Pokemon at all, but they do require a significant amount of team support and specialization and are far from ideal choices to be incorporated on any build. Furthermore CB Zygarde has the option of running Toxic as a last move to punish these switchins, though Cresselia and Porygon2's natural passivity renders this far from necessary for the Zygarde player to take advantage of their switchin and make progress. Softer checks I would classify among the likes of Golisopod, Milotic, and Mandibuzz which can switch into Thousand arrows but fold to the right coverage moves and certaintly don't want to switch in with rocks up or even minor chip damage. While they are all useful Pokemon in their own right they can be worn down by clever play, and allow the Zygarde user to still make progress nontheless, without having to endeavor to make a significant amount of prediction. The other way teams generally attempt to control Zygarde is by including an offensive Thousand arrows resist, like Shaymin, and having a Fairy-type, say Scarf Gardevoir, waiting in back to revenge KO it. This is ok verus CB builds, although not entirely disadvantageous to the Zygarde user who is at least guranteed of a trade, but can prove disastrous versus the aforementioned DD sets, and thus I think is not an adequate teambuilding solution revealing the problem of Zygarde.

Why now? I would say that the growing offensiveness of the meta trends in general has slowly elevated Zygarde and that the loss of a very consistent, very common, very usable counter in Gligar gives a boost to Zygarde that pushes it over the edge, especially with secondary options to check it like Chesnaught leaving in the upcoming shift as well. Zygarde is too consistent in its ability to provide value and too imposing in the teambuilder. The metagame has felt crowded with threats for a while now, and I think this is an opportunity to eliminate one of them.

I hope other council members will read this and decide to chime in on the debate. As Nat aluded to there are many other possibly consequnces of the metagame shifts which deserve to be considered as well like Virizion, but to me, Zygarde is the foremost threat which should be addressed.

 

[lighthouses]

Just a little thing id like to add since my english is nowhere near good enough to where i feel comfortable arguing over this stuff.
I think people sometimes focus too much on judging whether something is potentially broken based on the amount of deffensive checks it has, you see this kinda thing in discussions all the time and i honestly think that the matter is, generally, a bit more complicated than that.
Zygarde has quite a decent amount of offensive counterplay regardless of gligars departure from the tier, and by that i dont mean just mons that can outspeed it at +1(scarf noiv and scarf lazzle basically as far as i know) but also the fact that zygarde has both:
-a hard time setting up due to its really poor bulk, unlike gatr or barb for example
-very low power unboosted, meaning its not all that uncommon for the opponent to just be able to stay in on it as it sets up
Which in turn means that offensive teams dont have that hard a time keeping up with it; it usually gets damage on 1 mon and dies or kills something as it eats a hit and then is picked off by priority.(hell, just having a golisopod in your offensive team basically makes you dd zygarde proof)
I dont mean to say that zygarde(DD specifically) is easy to deal with by all means, i think its one of the best pokemon in the tier. But i also believe that people blow the strenghts of the set way out of proportion mostly due to confirmation bias.
Even deffensively stuff like mandibuzz, umbreon, cress and p2(even more underated options like tangela and slowbro) are able to just stop it pretty reliably given the user plays well.
Gligar was never the tiers premier zygarde answer, it was just a very good mon that happened to deal with it pretty well(not even THAT well id argue, anyone whos played more than 3 games of ru can tell you that keeping gligar at high health and mantain your eviolite all the while keeping rocks up/defogging is a very tall task) so It leaving shouldn't be the thing that pushes zygarde over the edge, given that all the other answers are still available and not all that affected by the tier changes(mandibuzz only got better for example).

 

[EviGaro]

I tend to side more with Diogo's perspective, in the sense that unlike its OU counterpart, Zydog's bulk problem is a fairly significant hindrance in its ability to spam attacks as freely as you'd like, and while you mentioned the low power unboosted, I would also add that CB has similar problems: if you don't kill, you get killed. And that makes the trade itself so much less favourable, to the point where it's not uncommon to see the Zydog user back out of scoring a 60 to 70% hit in order to preserve itself, which can result in severe loss of offensive momentum. I find my circuit playoffs game against KW a good example of that, as he was forced out turn one by a MegaLix and really never was able to get anything going after that. I also agree that the love Gligar gets as a way to get past Zydog is interestingly odd, as it certainly has the potential to lose to it / get punished by common offensive partners, and there's really a reason why people legitimately started using other mons, like Slowbro and Cress, despite its continuous availability: it's not consistent enough and relies way too much on conditions being perfect for it. So I'm certainly not ready to sound the alarm because a mon I've seen lose multiple times to Zydog is leaving tbh.

Other points are probably a mash of what Nat and Diogo said too, but defensive counterplay that can erase Zygarde is fairly popular, and doesn't really require you to give it free turns. Slowbro / Cress / P2 / Milotic all commonly carry Ice Beam, so Zydog doesn't really make as much progress as you'd argue. Classic BO mons like Blastoise, Machamp, Shaymin, Golisopod all shrug off a hit and retaliate, whereas a Noivern just clean outspeeds. HO struggles to carry consistent switchins obviously, but even your Abomasnow, Gatr, things like that take a hit or just mash it with priority. Basically, almost all options are still viable in taking care of Zydog, because it doesn't make any matchup against a team prepared entirely lopsided. It has insecurities coming in on defensive mons, it struggles to deal with all the priority in the tier, and you have to consistently worry about not cleanly taking out your opponent's mon in order to adequately pressure them, and while fast it's not by any means the fastest unboosted threat.

Also I barely talked about DD Zydog... but well, is it even all that good anymore? It was quite incredible for a time since Zydog was trending down and DD solved the issues at the time, but it's been a while since I've seen a high level game decided by a DD Zydog sweep. I might be missing out on something here, but when I played and prepped DD came into mind less and less, it's way easier to deal with than you'd like, and still requires you to get the read since most of the things Zydog sets up on are fairly frail. Of course that also means they're generally offensive mons and can clean bop you which makes me unsure of the set's brokenness.

Don't get me wrong though, I think Zydog is still an amazing offensive mon, probably the most valuable for an offensive team, an opinion I've had for like a year now, due to its freedom of spammability, decent typing, and access to strong priority. I just don't see how in all my time playing this tier this is a clearly broken threat, and I can't help but think there's some reaction due to the changes this tier will inevitably go through, which is at this time impossible to define with any certainty honestly. Anyway, if I had to talk about something broken, I'd much, much rather consider Celebrate Meloetta, which strikes me as a much more stupidly insufferable threat to prepare for than Zydog, due to ridiculous versatility, bulk, ease of setting up, and even potential cheese through ability and movepool. Passive steels might get better in the next meta but they're owned by Meloetta's other crazy good sets and consistent offensive pressure. In my mind that threat is far more punishing in building / as a late game wincon.

 

[Swagodile]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-jan-2019.3645743/

Gains:

Stakataka
Darmanitan
Metagross

Losses:

Gligar
Steelix-Mega
Chesnaught
Doublade

 

[snorlax142857]

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Just about nothing in the tier (bar pyuk) can avoid the 2hko from cb darm's Flare Blitz. In addition, Adamant still reaches 289 speed, which is not bad at all as it only misses out on rose, melo, rotom, and croak compared to Jolly. While darm is easily revenge killed and it quickly dies to recoil + sr damage, that doesn't solve the problem of it having basically no switchins at all. Chance that it'll get banned soon?

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Stakataka and Roserade seems like a really neat core. Roserade handles bulky waters like MegaStoise and can set up Spikes, while Stakataka murders the Fire-types and special walls that give Roserade trouble. I tested this out on Showdown, and it seemed to work pretty well (when I didn't make any stupid mistakes like putting Stealth Rock over Stone Edge on Staka... oops). Roserade can also act as an emergency Fighting resist, albeit not a very good one thanks to its low defense.

 

[ceal]

RIP RU, here's some first impressions

I've been secretly excited for Meta to drop for a long time now because I was convinced it had an honest chance of not being broken. Since rises are a terrible idea, however, that chance is pretty much gone, as Gross drops down just as soon as 3 very good answers to it just left. This leaves it's Choice Band set with very few reliable answers:

calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 306-362 (79.8 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (ignores intimidate thanks to clear body)
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 199-235 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 76+ Def Mandibuzz: 202-238 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And those mons that can take its hits, like Slowbro, Bronzong, and Forretress, are heavily crippled by Trick. This makes Band Gross a massive headache for Bulkier teams, as they have to be really good at predicting or have a Z-crystal Slowbro in order to combat it. And that's not even discounting having to prepare for the ton of other sets Gross has: Mixed Lure sets can circumvent the answers to Meta's band set without the need for as much prediction, Rocks sets pressure almost any remover thanks to Explosion, and Agility sets can set up and sweep thanks to its great speed tier while boosted and defensive typing, functioning like a weaker but harder to kill Barbaracle. With such raw power and versatility (and UU robbing all of its other answers that could have made it more bearable) I can't fathom Metagross staying RU for long.

Darmanitan is the RU equivalent of an atom bomb, blowing away pretty much anything with its CB Flare Blitz. The fact that it at least has a chance to 2hko every popular bulky water after rocks with blitz is insane, and for those few mons that can stomach one, it has edgequake coverage to blow them away too. It suffers a lot from Staraptor syndrome, being very easy to wear down thanks to recoil and a staggering weakness to hazards, but it makes good use of the few turns it has to pretty much claim a kill with very little support. It also makes for a solid revenge killer with Scarf that compensates for its weaker power with U-Turn. Very broken.

Stakataka appears to be a worse Metagross at first glance, but it most definitely has its own niche and should not be underestimated. While its CB set is very strong, it's too slow to really capitalize on that damage before it gets forced out. The main set that differentiates itself from Gross is OTR, which can't be outsped under TR and can snowball incredibly easily with Beast Boost. Shrugging off every common form of priority in the tier and being able to blow past weakened walls with Continental Crush are also big bonuses. Extremely scary mon that can clean sweep vs offense with almost no effort.

It's also kinda worth noting that Gastrodon is legal now that it's dropped to PU, and that it can serve as a situational check to all of these mons while having reliable recovery, but the overall lack of utility really hurts, and all of these mons can easily blow away Gastro with the right move/sheer force of power anyways, make it overall worse compared to Seismitoed.

 

[Hot N Cold]

- Gligar - Chesnaught => ++ Zygarde-10% => + Slowbro + Cresselia + Porygon-2
+ Metagross + Darmanitan + Stakataka => +++ Slowbro
- Gligar - Doublade => + Fighting types => + Slowbro

- Slowbro become great in this metagame because Zygarde-10% after Gligar and Chesnaught rise will become even better, and to deal with threats such Darmanitan, Stakataka, Metagross, Machamp, Arcanine, etc will key. Slowbro will be a solid option as physical tank over traditional Gligarl
- Registeel is getting better, this same thing happened in ORAS; great news for Regi the lost of Gligar, Doublade and Mega-Steelix.
- Darmanitan Choice Band will become such a good wallbreaker in the tier. CB Darmanitan 2HKO bulky waters like Milotic after Rocks, EQ 2HKO Rhyperior and Diancie, Rock Slide 2HKO Intimidate Defensive Arcanine. Only solid counter its Slowbro and U-turn min its 41% which means that is easy to pressure with Spikes or something like dual CB Darma + CB Sneasel. Defog Flygon actually might be usable again with a set like this to check Darmanitan:

Flygon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 28 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn

 

[phantom]

Feel free to continue discussing the tier shifts. However, avoid discussion on bans or suspects for the time being. Council is set to vote on drops very soon and discussing potential suspects, so stayed tuned.

 

[tmacbalanced]

With this past shift, I really see Toxicroak just getting better. Sucker Punch + SD is really good. Nasty Plot is pretty good too (Vacuum Wave to hit TR Staka). Gligar leaving really did help croak get better, doesn't have to run ice punch anymore. Doublade leaving also helped it quite a bit.

Tyrantrum and Raikou also appreciated Gligar, Doublade, and Chesnaught leaving respectively. Banded Tantrum is even better and Raikou can now run hp grass freely for any water/ground types.

 

[Martinique Jason]

With this past shift, I really see Toxicroak just getting better. Sucker Punch + SD is really good. Nasty Plot is pretty good too (Vacuum Wave to hit TR Staka). Gligar leaving really did help croak get better, doesn't have to run ice punch anymore. Doublade leaving also helped it quite a bit.

Tyrantrum and Raikou also appreciated Gligar, Doublade, and Chesnaught leaving respectively. Banded Tantrum is even better and Raikou can now run hp grass freely for any water/ground types.

Dont forget about linoone, it lost 4 answers to it.

 

[feen]

The RU Council has unanimously decided to quickban Darmanitan.
No more CBDARM memes

Reasoning

Darmanitan's wallbreaking potential is too much for the RU tier, as Flare Blitz requires very little conditions to be met in order to pick 2hkos on even bulky resists. Additionally, its above average speed tier for the tier and its pivoting potential makes it near impossible to play around. While it kills itself with its main stab, it's way too easy to break apart a team for potential teammates and thus cannot viably be healthy for the tier

Tagging The Immortal to implement on the sim

 

[dhelmise]

The RU Council has unanimously decided to quickban Darmanitan.
No more CBDARM memes

Reasoning

Darmanitan's wallbreaking potential is too much for the RU tier, as Flare Blitz requires very little conditions to be met in order to pick 2hkos on even bulky resists. Additionally, its above average speed tier for the tier and its pivoting potential makes it near impossible to play around. While it kills itself with its main stab, it's way too easy to break apart a team for potential teammates and thus cannot viably be healthy for the tier

Tagging The Immortal to implement on the sim

done, will be up asap

 

[Pepeduce]

Now that Darm is finally QB I can give my thought about the actual metagame.

The tier shift has definitely buff every physical attacker specially Fight, Normal and Rock because we lost 4 strong physical defensive mon (Ches, Mega Lix, Gligar, Doublade) and VoltTurn core.
I hope the return of our ORAS Fighting type (Medicham, Sawk, Gallade, Scrafty), Toxicroak seems stronger indeed. (P.S. I forgot Passimian.)
For normal type, I see Snorlax like a bigger threat now. Banded Lax can fit well in offensive teams and easily weaken or break stuff and Curse Lax is always painful to handle with without ghost type in your side. Braviary is another ORAS mon who can make his return thanks to ability to check Shaymin among other things. Choice Band Bewear is a set which can rise as well.
How cannot I talk about Tyrantrum, it just lost 4 (and just gain 1) strong check to its Scarf set which is better set to check Fire mons (Sala and Ninetales). Choice Band set is more efficient than previously. Lycanroc-Dusk Band can be a thing too and Aerial Ace Barbaracle is not more useful.

The fact to 2 ground type leave the meta mainly Steelix Mega buffs the VoltTurn. Ampharos Mega, the Fabio set is the one which can become way better than before.

A lot of people talk about Zydog and how it will become a big threat in this meta. I think it definitely better ofc like every physical pokemon. We'll see how the meta will fix itself. But I think Blastoise Mega still the biggest threat and the thing which deserve the next suspect test. There are few things who can handle this big turtle and it's still tough for offensive teams to check it well because its sheer force which 2HKO everything and thanks to its bulk and its good defensive type can survive barely any attacks.

I don't think Gastro will stuck in RU but I think it can fit in some teams. It can check Blastoise (w some Spe Def investment) more efficiently than Seismi and check physical Rock type, Fire type, non HP Grass electric type. It can also check the new offensive steel type which are Stakataka and Metagross.

First, i didn't think it will be so good in this tier because in my mind we still had Mega Lix, Gligar, Doublade, Chesnaught... lol. I can see that the Stak fled them from UU.
It seems good finally because it gets a strooong Steel STAB, a good Ability to sweep in late game and the tier lack of priority move which can blew it in TR unlikely to UU. It can setup as well vs some dragon type like Noivern.
A Defensive rocker set can be useful to check fairy type like non focus blast Gardevoir or check special Dragon type like Noivern.

Metagross can be good in this tier. Choice Band set hits everything hard and can be the main reason to see Slowbro rising in usages. I don't have much to say different that what it has already said.

 

[Katy]

With the recent shifts I want to give my thoughts on Gastrodon, Metagross and Stakataka.


First of all Gastrodon, I think this is a really good addition to the tier, with checking Mega Blastoise, checking Salazzle, Ninetales and Raikou as well.
Gastrodon has some nice tools in Toxic and Recover, meanwhile able to run Earthquake / Earth Power, Scald maybe some will run Ice Beam to check Noivern
to hit it super effectively. I can see that Gastrodon will be a nice and welcomed addition to the RU tier.


Metagross Choice Band set is probably the best / most used set, but I can also see some Agility Gross work with some cool Items,
Metagross is an additional check to mons like Registeel, Roserade, Gardevoir and Florges with its well rounded typing being Steel / Psychic.


With mons like Mega Lix, Chesnaught, Doublade and Gligar gone I can see Stakataka will pose a threat to the RU-tier, under Trick Room and with Z-Crystal very dangerous to face,
I can see Bronzong rise alot more as a check to it, since it has Levitate to nullify the EQs, and the two respectable STABs in Rock and Steel are resisted by too.
I think the addition of Stakataka makes TR teams a notable factor in the RU-Metagame again, since it by itself can setup a Trick Room or just abuse it with the help of Uxie / Cresselia / your own Bronzong as setters and also
abusers like Alola Marowak (which already was a staple at UU / OU TR teams) and maybe Mega Camerupt, which can both help to break through Stakas check in Bronzong.
Due to the decent bulk Stakataka offers I can see it find its way on some teams as a pure Stealth Rocks setter as well.