/me is totally for sure not at all bandwagoning with him. That thing is, IMO, abler to wall a significant portion of the metagame without due risk to itself. To BL2 wit' ya!
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np: RU Stage 1 - Welcome to the Jungle!
- Thread starter Nails
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I was talking about using it to counter Sableye, because once you've got foresight activated against sableye, close combat is super effective against him. Are you sure hitmonlee hits harder than guts boosted hariyama?
This. I run both Entei and a Guts attacker and I STILL have trouble with Sableye because of its priority Taunts and that bulk. When I am, in utter seriousness, considering using Rawst Berry over Eviolite on my Rhydon...yeah. And let's not forget priority instant recovery and priority subs. And this is before we even start talking about the potential of a CM set.
Sableye needs to GTFO.
If you wanna get REALLY creative and cool with Sableye, you can do shit like Iron Ball with Trick so if there's ever some really fast Pokemon you wanna screw over completely or a flying type that you wanna be able to hit with earthquake...you can.
(I used this for a while. Screws over Moltres SOOOOOOOO hard)
I've also tried using some priority Torment and having both Toxic and Will-O-Wisp on the same set. No matter what you use, you can basically screw over any Pokemon you feel like it. You just need to edit the set marginally. It's too good.
(I used this for a while. Screws over Moltres SOOOOOOOO hard)
I've also tried using some priority Torment and having both Toxic and Will-O-Wisp on the same set. No matter what you use, you can basically screw over any Pokemon you feel like it. You just need to edit the set marginally. It's too good.
Overcentralizing is a bullshit argument that was floating around for a while last generation but I had thought it had mostly been dispelled. The only thing that you ban something for is if it's "too good" or as we like to call it "broken". If something is just too good that it's unreasonably (subjective to each player) hard to beat.
Is it too hard to prepare for or are you just not preparing for it? I actually think Sableye is at least worthy of suspect discussion, but not for overcentralization (what a yucky word), for reasons I listed.
That doesn't mean it's not good, Blissey screws over a lot of special attackers in OU,but they're still usable.
Either way, what are you guys using as a Spinblocker? I really think that hazards play a huge role in RU, due to the amount of viable Spikers, so having a good Spinblock is vital. I'm using Cofagrigus, mainly because he doubles as a Hazer, and gets Will O Wisp, although Dusknoir performs nicely, as well.
Sableye, i feel bad using something so obviously broken but he gets the job done.
I used to use Sub Rotom, alternating between will-o-wisp or charge beam as his 4th move, depending on the team, and he was incredibly effective.
But now I've stopped resisting using cheap pokemon and just switched to Sableye
Thats the problem right? Why shouldn't you use it? I feel bad too. It's just a bit too overpowered for this tier. The amount of pro's for running it in a team completely blow the con's away.
It need to get nominated for suspect discussion, so we can start using different physical sweepers again.
Has anyone been having problems with Kabutops? He's a menace to my team with his dual stabs and huge attack.
It's the kind of thing you can build a team around but can't just put randomly somewhere. Obviously, it's all about keeping stealth rock away, then trying to deal with the counters and revenge killers. It's kind of risky these days since sableye is one of (if not the) the best spin blockers the tier has ever known, and he's basically everywhere.
I haven't tested it out yet, but a combination of munchlax and sableye got to be ridicoulus hard to break down. Sableye beating any physical attacker except entei and guts ones and munchlax walling the hell out of special attackers + sableye is immune to fighting which munchlax is weak too
RestTalk + Mirror Coat seems a bit iffy but chuck in maybe a different move (Coverage move/Toxic) and it might work. I guess if you go with 2 offensive moves you might as well be using Mantine. Is this really the best Bulky Water we got down here?
After Blastoise left I tried using him as a offensive stealth rocker and rapid spinner, but he never stayed around long enough. The only thing I ever found him doing well was switching into Entei's Flare blitz thanks to his x4 resist.
If you are having trouble dealing with him try one of these counters. Tangrowth eats him for breakfast. Ferroseed walls him completely and Sableye spin blocks him and get the priority burn on him.
No. Slowking, with nice stats and resists, nice movepool (scald, psychic, slackoff, fire blast) and regenerator is much better than mantyke.
Although I currently play RU the most, I'm not going to say I'm very good at it.
But, here is my opinion on Sableye:
You practically need powerful sp. attackers. Sableye always messed me up, so I threw a specs Typhlosion on my team.
Majority (as in must be nearly 100%) of Sableye can't touch him without facing instant death:
100% specs eruption is just overkill, and hits even 4x resists (relatively) hard. Over 30% to most Omastars I see.
Flamethrower (without Blaze) is also almost a positive OHKO.
Obviously there are a few problems.
Munchlax -.- being the biggest...
However, prediction can still power your way through Kabutops, Omastar, and (kind of) Munchlax... Erupt the first time you counter Sableye, and then Focus Blast the second time (if expecting the 4x resist) or double switch for your Munchlax killer.
other (usually lesser) problems being hazards and a smart Sableye using NS on the switch
Perhaps Sableye can be considered Overpowered in RU because a powerful sp. attacker is practically required to counter him, but I always find myself having problems with other things far more often XD
But, here is my opinion on Sableye:
You practically need powerful sp. attackers. Sableye always messed me up, so I threw a specs Typhlosion on my team.
Majority (as in must be nearly 100%) of Sableye can't touch him without facing instant death:
100% specs eruption is just overkill, and hits even 4x resists (relatively) hard. Over 30% to most Omastars I see.
Flamethrower (without Blaze) is also almost a positive OHKO.
Obviously there are a few problems.
Munchlax -.- being the biggest...
However, prediction can still power your way through Kabutops, Omastar, and (kind of) Munchlax... Erupt the first time you counter Sableye, and then Focus Blast the second time (if expecting the 4x resist) or double switch for your Munchlax killer.
other (usually lesser) problems being hazards and a smart Sableye using NS on the switch
Perhaps Sableye can be considered Overpowered in RU because a powerful sp. attacker is practically required to counter him, but I always find myself having problems with other things far more often XD
Here's a suggestion for a Rapid Spinner - attach Lum Berry. Swords Dancers such as Sandslash, Armaldo, and Kabutops can SD up on the switch to Sableye, absorb a priority Wisp, and kill Sableye with their respective STAB. The Hitmons can Foresight on the switch, absorb priority Wisp, and annihilate Sableye with Hi Jump Kick / Close Combat.
Except they'll use a second priority will-o-wisp. Really, a physical attacker with substitute is the only physical attacker that can do much versus sableye, and even then, only if they substitute on the switch in. Still, I don't think sableye is overpowered personally, it just needs to be played around. Magic guard alakazam (so long as it runs a coverage move not named focus blast) and most special attackers will force it out. Trick rotom can get a choice item on it (or deal decent damage using special attack in anticipation of taunt). I just treat sableye the same way I treat chansey or blissey - you can't use the type of attacker it is designed to beat. No-one complains that blissey stops special attackers from doing anything, you need to use a physical attacker.
Sableye is ridiculously good, but Yanmega and Venomoth were worse.
I put together a stall team composed by only NU pokemon and it works extremely well even in RU, The anti-spinner Sableye that i use has max HP/Sdef and can take some hits from special attacker and, if him burns them, even from physiscal ones, and recover in answer.
It's a damn good poke.
Anyway, i notice some warturtle running around as spinner, what do you think about that ? Personally i can beat him very easly with my roselia's gigadrain and he is not a really good spinner
It's a damn good poke.
Anyway, i notice some warturtle running around as spinner, what do you think about that ? Personally i can beat him very easly with my roselia's gigadrain and he is not a really good spinner
No they won't. You Foresight on the switch, Sableye eats your Lum Berry, and Sableye dies. Adamant Hitmonchan's Drain Punch vs 252 HP / 120 Def Sableye is a guaranteed OHKO. Same for +2 Sandslash's Earthquake. Same for +2 Kabutops Stone Edge. If you carry a Lum Berry and use Foresight or SD on the switch, Sableye is dead.
Sableye doesn't make physical attackers unviable at all. If for some reason you refuse to carry Lum Berry on anything (and refusing to adapt to a threat is not a good reason to ban the threat) then you can still beat it by hitting it hard on the switch. If it's coming in after a KO, you can beat it by having a Substitute up. If you can't fit Substitute or Lum Berry on your team, then you should have a Will-O-Wisp absorber, like Entei or Moltres or Hariyama or Alakazam or Swellow (all of which are perfectly viable Pokemon anyway) or a cleric, like Uxie or Leafeon or Clefable or Lanturn (all of which are also perfectly viable Pokemon). If you refuse to use Lum Berry or Substitute or a status absorber or a cleric and don't have any attackers strong enough to do 70% on the switch to a Pokemon with defenses worse than Pidgeot, then yeah, Sableye is gonna fuck you up. That doesn't mean Sableye is overpowered, it means your team is bad.
If I see a fighting type use foresight on the switch, i'm not going to leave my sableye in on a super effective Close combat/HJK/Drain Punch, I'd be switching it out straight away into a physical wall like claydol to tank the problem.
This statement is entirely accurate.
Let's say there is a "Standard" Sableye set that exists and it is something to the effect of:
Sableye (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Confuse Ray / Mean Look
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
(personally I prefer Bold with 164/92/252 but that isn't really the point)
Let's look at some common physical attackers that Sableye really doesn't want to switch into: NOTE these are all the pokemon pulled from the RU threat list that can (probably) guarantee a 2HKO AFTER BEING BURNED by that priority W-o-W
I am leaving out obvious things like Entei, Swellow, Luxray, etc that either don't mind being burnt or can't be burnt.
Honchkrow
252 Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 97.04% - 114.47%
81.25% chance to OHKO
Sharpedo:
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 63.16% - 74.01%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Waterfall does identical damage
Krookodile
252 Atk Krookodile Crunch vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 61.51% - 73.03%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Electivire
252 Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 72.04% - 84.87%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Aggron
252 Atk Life Orb Aggron Head Smash vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 110.86% - 130.59%
100% chance to OHKO (life orb)
252 Atk Aggron Head Smash vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 85.2% - 100.66%
6.25% chance to OHKO (leftovers)
I'm sure there are others but if you can't find a place for any of them I reiterate the point brought by Honko
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