atomicllamas; On that OTR Reuniclus set maybe TR+Sub+2 attacks? that way it can ignore shuckle Knock Off and be ready for the next threat. You'll be at threat from Encore, but honestly I doubt anyone would expect Sub there.
Losing to just about every Special Attacker isn't preferable, especially since you're so slo.I never said Doublade can break everything. That's like saying Scizor is 'manageable' in RU because it can't break Moltres. The calculations I chose were just to show how it fares against Special Attackers, who supposedly check it. And the 'fifth move' wasn't even necessary, because at +2, it can 2HKO all offensive mons with Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak/Iron Head. That was just to show a possibility.
Doublade can simply threaten a lot of things, far more capable than any single Pokémon in the tier. And once again, maybe I am over-estimating Doublade because of Spikes and SR, since it tends to force switches. Let's wait and see how it pans out after Froslass/Shuckle are gone.
I think it's just easier to bring shuckle back in to the battle. It's incredidum defenses means you pretty much need a Spec/LO water type to KO it handily. In my experience, Defoggers usually activate Defiant on Braviary which becomes an automatic nuke. It's nice to know you can find an opportunity later in the game to bring shuckle in on something that needs to 2/3hko it from 50-75% (like most physical attackers without a SE STAB). Froslass. Plus, Encoring something into a set-up/even a damaging move usually lets you bring in a resist and nuke something.dont understand how you think shuckle > frosslass. sure sticky web is an amazing hazard, but not being able to do anything to set up sweepers turn 1 is pretty miserable. you can encore but its less than 50% chance that you'll encore the right move as some set up mons may just be choiced or go for an attack that may 2hko (or have a secondary effect like doublade/coba head flinch).
I agree with what you said. Its just that, if one can predict the destiny bond from froslass and sets up instead, than a sweep can easily come in. Also, despite Shuckle's horrible HP stats, it still has sturdy. So no matter what the best an opposing Pokemon can do is 2HKO it. Also, Shuckle can carry Encore, which can also disrupt the opposing team, especially since opening Pokemon usually/sometimes set up hazards.imo despite its superior defenses, shuckle is not as sturdy as frosslass. Shuckle has no offensive prowess and literally just sets up hazards and switches. it may have base 230 defenses, but don't forget about its miserable hp. Additionally you have to invest in speed to ensure that you can set up more hazards on slower pokemon like escav/slowking. Because of frosslass's decent attack and amazing ghost/ice coverage, a lot of pokemon that could take it out are unable to because frosslass outspeeds them and weakens them/ takes them out. there's also the never ending fear of destiny bond.
With shuckle you play around just hazards, but frosslass forces you to play around the actual pokemon. It's ghost typing supports the team by limiting HJK's, spins, and other fighting attacks which helps pokemon like rhyperior significantly. I can't tell you how many times I stayed in on a hitmonlee knocking off a pokemon fearing a ghost type switch in.
also must be nice having braviary whenever they defog.
Ya you make some good points. Shuckle has definitely fallen dead weight in a bunch of battles. But I've also found it convenient having a total Knock Off sponge. Also sorry, I didn't mean to imply braviary is always easy to bring in on a defog, but it's sorta the same game as being afraid to hjk.With shuckle you play around just hazards, but frosslass forces you to play around the actual pokemon. It's ghost typing supports the team by limiting HJK's, spins, and other fighting attacks which helps pokemon like rhyperior significantly. I can't tell you how many times I stayed in on a hitmonlee knocking off a pokemon fearing a ghost type switch in.
also must be nice having braviary whenever they defog.
I think that statement alone goes to show how you view the whole thing. Froslass and Shuckle are both too powerful for RU and they will be suspected.(unless you're like, using Xatu or magic bounce, and let's be honest, that's not a good idea)
When the council chose a suspect web teams were not all that common, and although they have always been solid, the standard web team you see on the ladder hadn't been figured out, so they were much easier to deal with. Sticky web also creates faster games (10-15 turns), which is one of the reasons why people are using it so much, because people want to get done with reqs as fast as possible. It has already been stated multiple times throughout this thread (which your post makes pretty clear you've read exactly none of) that Shuckle / a variant of web setters / webs will be the suspect for the next round. If you are curious as to why Froslass is being suspected, there is literally a paragraph in the OP detailing what makes Froslass a suspect worthy Pokemon, I also suggest you take the last couple of battles you need to try out Froslass for yourself, as you have stated you haven't seen it much, here is an example of a team.Laddering RU suspect was one of the worst experiences of my life lol. I have no idea why Froslass is being suspected at all. I haven't seen it used much at all, and it pales to the setter that is Shuckle. Shuckle can set up web or rocks without fail unless you either have hax on your side or are using choice band rhyperior with rock blast that gets 5 hits. What? You want to set up on Shuckle? Say hello to encore. Between herb and sturdy, you really cannot prevent web getting up (unless you're like, using Xatu or magic bounce, and let's be honest, that's not a good idea). There's a surprising lack of good spinners and defoggers in RU, and shuckle also carries utility role in that it can knock off and encore.
I'm still 100 COIL short of reqs at this moment, but I just wanted to post this. I have no idea why Froslass is being suspected. Also, Shuckle is terrible. Bleh, laddering this was torture.
Hey, hey temp, hey there.Laddering RU suspect was one of the worst experiences of my life
It took over because of Froslass. That's how overcentralizing it is.I am finding Froslass relatively underwhelming considering that is being suspected. I know it's amazing but the whole Shuckle thing really took over. I think Shuckle should be suspected immediately after Froslass. Additionally, if Froslass is not banned and we decide to suspect (and ban) Shuckle, I think Froslass deserves another suspect test.
Also, 800 posts aww yee
8 timesedit: jesus, how many times did I say "Froslass Offense" or "Froslass HO" in this post? lol