I just wanna point out that Poison Touch's chance is considered separate from the attack's existing Poison Chance, with the other chance taking effect should the first one fail (70% chance). So it's not stacked as 60% and more (0.3) + (0.7 * 0.3) = 51% chance.you got the 60% CHANCE TO POISON THE OPPONENT THAT'S MORE THAN SACRED FIRE
Btw, this set seems mighty fun and all, but don't you think V-Create > Icicle Spear and Bullet Seed > Bonemerang would be a better option? V-Create gives you consistency against the bulky Grasses while covering Steel-types and Dusknoir at the same time, and the stat drops shouldn't matter too much when you're clicking ESpeed against nearly everything else. This allows you to replace Bonemerang with Bullet Seed, which covers Solrock, smacks Golem + Relicanth harder, and still boasts better accuracy against things like Stunfisk.
Smeargle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Bonemerang
- Icicle Spear
- Belly Drum
+6 252+ Atk Smeargle V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 290-342 (86.8 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKOI just wanna point out that Poison Touch's chance is considered separate from the attack's existing Poison Chance, with the other chance taking effect should the first one fail (70% chance). So it's not stacked as 60% and more (0.3) + (0.7 * 0.3) = 51% chance.
Btw, this set seems mighty fun and all, but don't you think V-Create > Icicle Spear and Bullet Seed > Bonemerang would be a better option? V-Create gives you consistency against the bulky Grasses while covering Steel-types and Dusknoir at the same time, and the stat drops shouldn't matter too much when you're clicking ESpeed against nearly everything else. This allows you to replace Bonemerang with Bullet Seed, which covers Solrock, smacks Golem + Relicanth harder, and still boasts better accuracy against things like Stunfisk.
I just wanna point out that Poison Touch's chance is considered separate from the attack's existing Poison Chance, with the other chance taking effect should the first one fail (70% chance). So it's not stacked as 60% and more (0.3) + (0.7 * 0.3) = 51% chance.
Well to be fair, the chance of poison is more than Sacred Fire's chance of burn.60% CHANCE TO POISON THE OPPONENT THAT'S MORE THAN SACRED FIRE
hi why isn't floatzel banned yet here's a list of shit that makes it broken
- zebstrika is only really relevant non-scarfer that outspeeds and kills and it's less omnipresent than before
- no reliable counters
- switching into it is a roulette because of how many great sets it has (roselia dies to physical, vullaby dies to special, mixed sets are fantastic atm so basically you're free to pick which of the few floatzel checks you can obliterate)
- stab priority so forget about an easy rk with monferno or a scarfer once they're weakened
- yes we got new checks but who really gives a shit this thing has no business being in this tier what are your arguments against a ban there are none
- bye
Disregarding how I feel about a cacturne suspect, I would like to contribute that we do have a handful of rag-tag yet viable mons that can be used to check cacturne on offense. Rotom-Frost/Fan both serve as ways of checking Cacturne with Will-O/Blizzard or Air Slash if you wanna play some 50/50s. Pawniard checks Cacturne as well if it's slightly damaged as pawniard has enough bulk to take a sucker punch while doing 58 - 68.6% with Iron head. Vullaby can check physical or non-Nasty Plot Mixed cacturne with u-turn. Lumineon can force Cacturne into some 50/50s with the combination of uturn and toxic and can check it easily with just uturn if cact doesn't carry a +2 adamant max sucker punch. Lastly, gourgeist-super and Def mawile can take on fully physical cacturne with ease if that's what your opponent is running.hi
I am here to talk to you about 2 mons today that are very here in the metagame!!!
OK so cacturne really wasn't broken in NU. It had a ton of checks, and most offensive teams had multiple options to check and counter it. But here in this meta where it's offense or bust there are basically 2 options: AV Muk or Monferno. As a result, I feel forced to run Monferno on literally every team because Muk needs more support.
Apparently I'm not alone.
PU Open Round 1:
| 1 | Monferno | 162 | 36.99% | 52.47% |
PU Open Round 2:
| 1 | Monferno | 94 | 40.17% | 51.06% |
PU Open Round 3:
| 1 | Monferno | 49 | 34.51% | 42.86% |
PU Open Round 4:
| 1 | Monferno | 29 | 30.85% | 55.17% |
Monferno is #1 every round. But this post isn't really about Monferno. This post is about Cacturne.
Cacturne is not used NEARLY as much as Monferno, as it requires a little more team support.
However, Cacturne DESTROYS offense and balance, and stall is bad in this meta. Over a 3rd of the meta running Monferno is proof of the fact that you basically have to run Monferno or lose to Cacturne.
As a result I am suggesting a Cacturne suspect. It's not a mon used much in the meta, but it makes it really hard to teambuild in a meta where you lose to one threat or another unless you have a very specific team. With SuMo coming out so soon, the oppressive teambuilding that Cacturne causes does not make us look back at a meta and say "that was a good meta." That is the goal, isn't it?
This is super controversial so please post opinions!
Using those usage stats to aide your argument is very flawed. Firstly, Cacturne wasn't even legal in round 1 of open, and the average usage of Monferno for rounds 2-4 was 35%, lower than in round 1, and its usage has been falling from round 2. Additionally, those stats do not accurately represent the metagame, for example they are weighted heavily in favour Teddeh's favourite mons. I cannot say whether or not Cacturne has effected Monferno's usage, as firstly we don't have the stats to see, and second its multi factorial (for example Pawniards popularity has gone up).hi
I am here to talk to you about 2 mons today that are very here in the metagame!!!
OK so cacturne really wasn't broken in NU. It had a ton of checks, and most offensive teams had multiple options to check and counter it. But here in this meta where it's offense or bust there are basically 2 options: AV Muk or Monferno. As a result, I feel forced to run Monferno on literally every team because Muk needs more support.
Apparently I'm not alone.
PU Open Round 1:
| 1 | Monferno | 162 | 36.99% | 52.47% |
PU Open Round 2:
| 1 | Monferno | 94 | 40.17% | 51.06% |
PU Open Round 3:
| 1 | Monferno | 49 | 34.51% | 42.86% |
PU Open Round 4:
| 1 | Monferno | 29 | 30.85% | 55.17% |
Monferno is #1 every round. But this post isn't really about Monferno. This post is about Cacturne.
Cacturne is not used NEARLY as much as Monferno, as it requires a little more team support.
However, Cacturne DESTROYS offense and balance, and stall is bad in this meta. Over a 3rd of the meta running Monferno is proof of the fact that you basically have to run Monferno or lose to Cacturne.
As a result I am suggesting a Cacturne suspect. It's not a mon used much in the meta, but it makes it really hard to teambuild in a meta where you lose to one threat or another unless you have a very specific team. With SuMo coming out so soon, the oppressive teambuilding that Cacturne causes does not make us look back at a meta and say "that was a good meta." That is the goal, isn't it?
This is super controversial so please post opinions!
I feel like this bolded part is really important. I would really like to see Cacturne gone, I hate playing against it's Sucker Punch 50-50s and everything, however I don't really think it's broken enough (or even good enough) to warrant a suspect test. Cacturne doesn't really DESTROY offense, it depends completely how you play with Cacturne. If you don't predict right with Sucker Punch, Cacturne can be almost useless in a match up, and just be an easy way for the opponent to bring threats like Monferno into play for free. If you predict right you obviously get a kill, if you don't you die. Everything is kill or be killed with Cacturne and depends entirely on how good the player is at predicting, because it dies in one hit to nearly anything offensive, unlike mawile and pawniard for example. People don't realize it but there's many more ways of dealing with Sucker Punch than just Will-O-Wisp or Mach Punch. You have Toxic, Protect, using setup moves, substitute, switching out, etc....and Sucker only has 8 PP. Not saying that this is healthy but Cacturne is so reliant on it vs faster pokemon that it's hardly something that just destroys teams.Disregarding how I feel about a cacturne suspect, I would like to contribute that we do have a handful of rag-tag yet viable mons that can be used to check cacturne on offense. Rotom-Frost/Fan both serve as ways of checking Cacturne with Will-O/Blizzard or Air Slash if you wanna play some 50/50s. Pawniard checks Cacturne as well if it's slightly damaged as pawniard has enough bulk to take a sucker punch while doing 58 - 68.6% with Iron head. Vullaby can check physical or non-Nasty Plot Mixed cacturne with u-turn. Lumineon can force Cacturne into some 50/50s with the combination of uturn and toxic and can check it easily with just uturn if cact doesn't carry a +2 adamant max sucker punch. Lastly, gourgeist-super and Def mawile can take on fully physical cacturne with ease if that's what your opponent is running.
That being said, Cacturne has the ability to run a bunch of sets, kill rain and special waters attackers, and sweep unsuspecting teams with its mixed movepool. It is certainly a huge threat in the tier and I think I understand the argument on both sides of this potential suspect. Overall, I think we should keep in mind that it's not whether we like cacturne in the tier but whether we really feel as though it limits teambuilder or is broken here.
Keep this in mind and I look forward to seeing some good discussion.