Due to this thread having very little activity in the last month in tandem with my own boredom, I have decided to make a VR post. I'll be commenting on my own nominations, and then following through with my opinions on the above nominations. I'd also like to furthermore encourage more people to post their opinions on respective ranks, as it's always great to have added input. Most of my nominations are pertaining to the bottom of the VR, and some Pokemon in lower placements I see as being unnecessary inclusions.
My Own Nominations
(Electric) | D to UR
Arceus-Electric is an odd case for an Arceus forme. While I believe it is still a potent Calm Mind set-up sweeper, and believe Electric is an underaccounted for offensive type, I very frequently when trying to build with this Pokemon just go screw it and run Calm Mind Water Arceus instead. I believe that Arceus-Water almost definitively outclasses Arceus-Electric. Water is a much better defensive typing, it can set up against the majority of the metagame, coming in on Ho-Oh and Necrozma-DM effortlessly. It has one viable immunity (Primal Groudon) in comparison to Electric's three common ones (Zygarde-C, Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground). Electric requires substantial coverage to hit these three Pokemon and generally lacks any longevity due to this. Arceus-Water is simply wearing down the Primal Groudon prior to sending it in. With Arceus-Electric, you're forced to play mind games with your coverage, you can't remove status and you're generally a lot worse offensively and defensively. The advantages it has come from its defensive ability, being a competent Behemoth Blade switch-in, walling Dragon Ascent from Rayquaza, but this is underwhelming when you consider other coverage on these Pokemon 2HKO Arceus-Electric anyway. It can be run as a defensive Defog user that can wall non-Swords Dance, non-Play Rough Zacian-C, but is this the niche that can and should define its placement on the VR. I don't think so.
(Ground) | A- to A
Probably the most controversial nomination here, but regardless of metagame trends being particularly unfavourable towards Arceus-Ground, I still see it as a top-tier threat. One capable of being in the same comparable rank as behemoths such as Eternatus. Defensive Arceus-Ground is still something you can throw on any team without much worry. I was against the initial demotion of this Pokemon, as I still feel that its defensive utility is incredibly beneficial. The ability to check Primal Groudon, Zygarde-C, Necrozma-DM, Ho-Oh (once inflicted with Toxic) is too good to ignore. The main and prominent reason for the demotion of this Pokemon was passivity, which I do agree with, but in the same way defensive Necrozma-DM could be considered passive. I don't think it's a fair slight on this Pokemon to argue that it allows Calm Mind Kyogre or Nasty Plot Mewtwo-Mega-Y to set up, when many other common passive threats don't face this same criticism. This Pokemon switches into many common potent threats with ease. Its passivity, while an issue for sure, isn't enough to demote it to A- when what it does do is amazing enough to justify A. While I'm sure this isn't a major point for any contention, I'm unsure why Mega Rayquaza was mentioned at all in the VR post. Was anyone considering Arceus-Ground a prominent check to Mega Rayquaza prior? Overall, Arceus-Ground deserves A in my eyes.
| B- to C
While I am a fan of this Pokemon under the right conditions, it is just increasingly hard to justify. If the opponent doesn't have Yveltal, this Pokemon is borderline useless. I don't mean in the same way Encore Nasty Plot Mega Gengar is "useless" against offense, I mean like pouring water over a plastic plant useless. Dynamax Yveltal is such a prominent threat that it's not a terrible idea to run this Pokemon if your team is incredibly weak to it, but I'd rather use Specially Defensive Arceus-Dark/Fairy with their shortcomings or attempt to stall out Dynamax turns with Ho-Oh. Those Pokemon at least have substantial utility in non-Yveltal matchups. C suits this Pokemon better honestly. It's not worth it to run this 90% of the time.
| C to D / UR
Groudon (the regular one) is a Pokemon I've always had a soft spot for, after seeing thelinearcurve pilot it well as a Stealth Rock lead in ORAS. Ever since then it's continued to bounce around the lower ranks of the VR, as a Pokemon with enough defensive utility to justify being a lead but one that many people don't find justifiable. With the start of SwSh coming, it was a hotly debated topic on whether to include this Pokemon on the ranking. Eventually we decided that its Dynamax utility (which I still believe is underrated and underutilised) was enough to include ranking it this time around. That being said, since Week 1 of NatDex, who has used this Pokemon? It can't function well as a hyper offense lead due to being outclassed by other common leads (see Deoxys-S and Smeargle), it can't function well as a Dynamax target due to other more prevalent ones wallbreaking better (see Yveltal, Xerneas, and Kyogre). I see very little use for this Pokemon in the current metagame. I even tried to make it work as a sun-setter, which might see use come our reversion to Galar Dex, but for now it's just not worth it.
| D to UR
"Chloe, you nutcase, what are you doing? Why are you pushing for the demotion of your own previous nomination?" Well, voice inside my head, I've come to a realisation that truthfully virtually any offensive Dynamax special Water-type Pokemon breaks common defensive cores with ease. Omastar, Manaphy, Gigantamax Inteleon, Ash Greninja, and so on and so forth are all examples of Pokemon that can theoretically break through common defensive cores. Omastar is probably significantly better than the rest of these, but even then it faces substantial competition from Dynamax Kyogre, and then additionally just Xerneas and Yveltal which wallbreak fine enough already. It's viable and you can definitely build around it. but most of the time, saying why bother and running Kyogre or Yveltal instead would be the wise move. I'll continue to run it, I just think it's not worth it. In terms of Dynamax targets I see as justifiable: Yveltal, Xerneas and Kyogre clearly. Kartana and Thundurus-T also have a sufficient niche in my eyes. Otherwise, I don't believe any other Pokemon ranked solely on the reason of Dynamax should keep its spot. That being said it's incredibly fun to use other Dynamax targets so please try more and experiment instead of running the same cookie cutter garbage.
| D to UR
While being a sufficient hazard setter and phazer, this Pokemon very rarely sees any usage and for good reason. Why would I run this? If I wanted to set Spikes, I'd run Ferrothorn or Deoxys-S or even Cloyster. It doesn't wall enough in the current metagame, and even then it's just outclassed. I really have trouble justifying using this or Corviknight or Celesteela ever. It will always have a special place in my heart but unfortunately I just don't think it deserves its placement on the Viability Ranking in the current metagame.
| D to UR
I think on paper this thing looks kinda cool. You can run Groundium Z Dig and call it a day. Just don't bother. Zacian-C virtually outclasses and the added niche regular has over its older sister is not enough to justify ever running. It's not worth it. I'd be willing to hear viable counter arguments to stopping this thing sitting here on the VR, but I just can't see it happening. Maybe if someone used it in a tournament game successfully that I didn't know about? No one ever wants to run regular Zacian, it just sucks.
I'll be ignoring WolfishOne's initial post, following the last shift as it relied on the assumption that the Dynamax Hidden Power/Judgment nerf would be happening, which we've since realised it's not.
A+ -> S
Imo a top 3 (arguably 2) consistent mon in the tier, this mon is probably the single most reliable way to make progress, often being even more effective at that than zacian-c. Ray + Zac was easily one of the most consistent cores across all of agpl and for good reason: both pretty much dont have counters and both are REALLY good at either forcing a kill, forcing a dynamax, or both, setting up for the other to go to town. Offensively, Ray has the versatility to make the opponent respect LO mixed, LO DD, and banded attacks, while defensively, it's one of the best checks to the ORAS legendaries and is capable of eating hits from just about every defensive mon in the meta and 2hkoing or ohkoing back. In a dmax centric meta (look at xern in S- and yvel in S), being able to force defensive dmax or kills without dmaxing yourself often sways games in the ray user's favor.
I agree with a promotion for Mega Rayquaza, its shown over time that even in National Dex AG it is such an offensive presence. I still think that for its potency, the Swords Dance set doesn't get enough credit. In a metagame where it barely misses the OHKO at +1, and where the majority of the pool of usable mons is slow. I agree with this nomination overall and have no substantial complaints. Agree
A+ -> S-
Something I realized was that you can be facing a team where all 6 mons have counterplay for Ho-oh, the rocker beats Ho-oh, and somehow Ho-oh will still be useful. It's really just regen being an incredible ability - having a Ho-oh in the back (that can also potentially dmax) gives rise to a far greater range of plays for the Ho-oh user both that the user can draw from and that the opponent must respect. Its utility is insane, letting you fit fog and phasing on every team. Ho-oh + NDM was such a common and effective defensive core this agpl that it feels a little weird seeing Ho-oh in a tier below DM.
I was initially very unsure about this, but this literally has 50% usage in tournaments. It's something I chuck onto almost every team without thinking. It's such an effective glue Pokemon that makes matchup versus against virtually everything so much better. There was discussion about this losing its prominence a month or two ago but I believe we're at a point where it would be outlandish not to even consider a promotion for Ho-Oh. I'm supportive of it. Agree
A- -> A (but actually A+) (Water)
| 6 | Arceus-Water | 39 | 28.26% | 64.10% |
To be clear, the main set I'm talking about is the CM set (CM + surf+recover +ice beam/refresh/earth power), but surf/tox/filler/recover is also worth a mention. Erupdon and regular ogre came onto everyone's radar in agpl and this set is one of the best at stopping them. It's also just an incredible defensive mon and a wincon in general. Extremely consistent, very easy to fit onto teams (6th in usage!), reliable dmax wincon that also does work w/o dmax, idk what else youd want (In my opinion it's more consistently good than etern and even zyg).
This is a nomination I definitely disagree with however. While I find its Calm Mind sets to be quite good and defensive sets are as good as they've ever been, it's not good enough to jump to A in my honest opinion. Even comparing this to Eternatus and Zygarde-C feels wrong. It isn't as splashable (haha) or as easy to justify in my eyes as Eternatus or Ditto, I'd consider Water Arceus having such high usage abnormal and unrepresentative of its viability. I wouldn't feel comfortable having this in A or even higher like you suggested. Disagree
B -> A-
Set Ive been liking is Roost/Twave/Moongeist/Defog. Being a fogger that forces out ndm/defensive don is nice, and the luxury of having a pretty reliable ray/noncrunch zac switchin is invaluable. Also the best MMY check. Just a rly nice alternative or even supplement to ndm.
This just isn't good enough, it really isn't worth running the majority of the time, might as well run Defog support Arceus-Ground if you want removal that forces out Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM. Being able to check Mega Mewtwo Y is nice but I wouldn't count it as substantial enough to justify moving it up a rank. B+ maybe I could see, but A- is way too high for Lunala, even in the current metagame. A metagame where Arceus-Dark has risen in usage substantially since this Pokemon moved down. Disagree
UR -> B
(Arc grass) the sd set is unironically really good, might even be better than ground- try it out!! Works the same as groundy but better vs some grounds/waters and smashes most cheese.
B is way too high for a Pokemon that for the most part is outclassed by Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, misses out on hitting many relevant threats depending on what coverage it opts to run. I think you can justify using it, but it really doesn't stand out as something worth ranking based on this reasoning in tandem with the lack of successful usage I've seen. I think this is in general an underexplored Arceus forme, but that being said Swords Dance sets don't really have enough going for them, in my eyes, to see ranking. Disagree
B- to B
Scarfs great at trading vs broken setup, and one of the best speed control ur gonna get in ag. Also got buffed w DLC because now banded poltergeist 2hkoing all its former checks is a thing
I like the idea of Marshadow moving up, I honestly think Choice Band Poltergeist is really solid from my experience using it and I think its previous sets are also not too bad. I'd definitely support this all things considered. Agree
to A. It's still a very potent Dynamax abuser but chansey + ndm is on every team now and Xern in S- is a relic of the past. It also now gets walled by shedinja.
I strongly disagree with this nomination. For one, excluding the point about Shedinja since well, you know. Defensive Necrozma-DM does not wall Xerneas well anymore due to the majority running max HP and Defense, which Max Flare into Dynamax + HP Fire into non-Dynamax removes it or alternatively two Max Flares if it opts not to Max Guard. Chansey is not on every team, in fact it's still quite rare even with its buff in viability and usefulness in the current metagame. You should also consider how well it removes Necrozma-DM for teammates like Zacian-C, Mega Rayquaza. This nomination, while I understand the point it's making, desperately misjudges how well it does against common builds. Xerneas is still incredibly potent, and in my eyes justifies its placement in S-. Disagree
to C. This mon is still kinda bad but due to hidden power / judgement nerf it can wall a few more things like xerneas, cm ogre as well as what it walled before like non dark coverage ZaCian, pogre, arceus that don't carry SE coverage, zygarde etc. Edit : Imo this should be in a theoretical D+ But that doesn't exist so....
I'm pretty sure we're probably in agreement that this shouldn't move up, given the nerf not happening, but its ability to wall non-Hidden Power Flying Kyogre and non-Toxic Zygarde is pretty solid and honestly it's a good Pokemon. I think D suits it well for now, but I'd be willing to sway towards agree in the future maybe. Disagree
to B-. This mon has always just kinda been there. However in AG while it's bulk is decent in OU, it just doesn't cut it in AG. Idt being immune to toxic and walling non eruptio//HP ice p Don and ndm is worthy of B+. The rise of kyogre is also really bad for it. I could see it in B but idk
This completely misses what Gliscor does. I implore you to read previous posts on the matter within the thread. These are the few that come to mind:
That being said I don't necessarily disagree with movement to B (not B-). There are a lot of moving parts within the metagame at the moment and I'm really unsure how to measure how they interact with Gliscor. I'd need to see a lot more of it in the current metagame, I need to do my own testing following this post. I really don't feel strongly enough about it at this current point in time. I'm going to abstain
here but I felt like I needed to point out how this just misses the mark.
Thank you to everyone for reading my arguments and I look forward to reading your future posts :)!