Er I edited my votes early this morning. I swapped Gardevoir and Latias, so Altaria didnt win anymore, Gardevoir did in its stead.
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Pet Mod Multiverse - Gen 9 - Slate 10 FINAL
- Thread starter RedwoodRogue
- Start date
bro openly admitting to vote manipulation
alr then
Altaria is out, congrats to OSP for winning with Gardevoir!
Altaria is out, congrats to OSP for winning with Gardevoir!
Pokémon: Gardevoir
Niche: [XY OU] Special Breaker
Stats: 88 HP / 65 Atk / 65 Def / 125 SpA / 115 SpD / 100 Spe | BST: 568 (+20 HP, + 20 Spe)
Type:
Fairy/Psychic
Abilities: Pixelgreat (Unnerfed Pixelate, 1.3x)/Trace
Based on XY movepool
Offers an extremely powerful breaker that can blast through quite a few of the current bulk of what we have, while losing to faster offensive mons like Gengar, Gastly, Rapidash and Magneton, as it did in XY.
Just to give a rundown of my own personal thoughts in each winner
Its defensive typing is very interesting in this meta game when Levitate is factored in, mainly in regards to the matchup versus major threat Ho-oh. Stunting on new Latias is huge as well. It will most likely have some serious 4MSS however, because how do you choose between Refresh, Wisp, Morning Sun and Rocks? Its gonna b very interesting to see how it shakes out, but I still think its gonna be good.
I don't know why this won tbh, esp since Solrock was also a clear winner. It feels heavily outclassed, particularly since it lacks Recovery and it's Rocks weak. I do commend just how much it can take on from mew two but outside of that not sure why I'd run this over Sol.
I think the nerfs lobbied against Latias are too steep. Without it's item its basically useless, and with its item it's only ok. Its a good check to Raikou, Starmie (but it kind of sucks anyway) and can bully versions of Gastly depending on the spread. Calming Soul seems obnoxious but most likely largely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Main problems is its too weak with shoddy coverage, so I think long-term it would warrant a stats change, an item buff or maybe both will be in order.
Not really feeling this mon, but not for the reasons similar to Regi and Lati. I just do not think a Pursuit user is necessary for the meta rn, esp since the actual mons most hurt by it (the Psychics) weren't even considered in the post. Its also just a buff for Mewtwo which is cringe. Outside of that it its technically a good Pokémon without broken elements.
Real cool, the winners this round haven't completely invalidated it like I assumed. It sets Spikes on Donphan for days, and can punish most switchins with Knock Off. Mixed sets will probably be common place due to what has won, and overall I just think its a cool mon. Strong Sucker Punch is also nice to have, barely any resists exist.
Another cool spiker. Really loves the existence of Latias and Regirock this slate, but as an -ate user it absolutely despises Gengar, basically demanding Earthquake on all sets to make any progress against it, which is pretty cool since it definitely wants Earthquake anyway for future Steels. It will be interesting to see how it develops later on.
Great potential wall breaker and Scarf user, Pixilgreat is such a funny ass name and Gen 6 Pick late is very based and balanced. Calm Mind, AoA and Scarf sets are all pretty good optiins, with Specs probably being decent at absolutely demolishing slow teams .
For new mons, biggest winners are definitely Magneton who hits every winner for SE damage, and Mewtwo, being able to pair with Pursuit and go crazy. Biggest losers are the Psychics who already kinda sucked in OU, basically got a death sentence with Absol and to a lesser extent Cacturne. Ho-oh also got slot of losses but its Ho-oh its gonna SacredRegen its way out of it.
I like the slate, I can't wait for Gen 5 (probably won't tap into Gen 4)!
Its defensive typing is very interesting in this meta game when Levitate is factored in, mainly in regards to the matchup versus major threat Ho-oh. Stunting on new Latias is huge as well. It will most likely have some serious 4MSS however, because how do you choose between Refresh, Wisp, Morning Sun and Rocks? Its gonna b very interesting to see how it shakes out, but I still think its gonna be good. I don't know why this won tbh, esp since Solrock was also a clear winner. It feels heavily outclassed, particularly since it lacks Recovery and it's Rocks weak. I do commend just how much it can take on from mew two but outside of that not sure why I'd run this over Sol. I think the nerfs lobbied against Latias are too steep. Without it's item its basically useless, and with its item it's only ok. Its a good check to Raikou, Starmie (but it kind of sucks anyway) and can bully versions of Gastly depending on the spread. Calming Soul seems obnoxious but most likely largely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Main problems is its too weak with shoddy coverage, so I think long-term it would warrant a stats change, an item buff or maybe both will be in order. Not really feeling this mon, but not for the reasons similar to Regi and Lati. I just do not think a Pursuit user is necessary for the meta rn, esp since the actual mons most hurt by it (the Psychics) weren't even considered in the post. Its also just a buff for Mewtwo which is cringe. Outside of that it its technically a good Pokémon without broken elements. Real cool, the winners this round haven't completely invalidated it like I assumed. It sets Spikes on Donphan for days, and can punish most switchins with Knock Off. Mixed sets will probably be common place due to what has won, and overall I just think its a cool mon. Strong Sucker Punch is also nice to have, barely any resists exist. Another cool spiker. Really loves the existence of Latias and Regirock this slate, but as an -ate user it absolutely despises Gengar, basically demanding Earthquake on all sets to make any progress against it, which is pretty cool since it definitely wants Earthquake anyway for future Steels. It will be interesting to see how it develops later on. Great potential wall breaker and Scarf user, Pixilgreat is such a funny ass name and Gen 6 Pick late is very based and balanced. Calm Mind, AoA and Scarf sets are all pretty good optiins, with Specs probably being decent at absolutely demolishing slow teams .For new mons, biggest winners are definitely Magneton who hits every winner for SE damage, and Mewtwo, being able to pair with Pursuit and go crazy. Biggest losers are the Psychics who already kinda sucked in OU, basically got a death sentence with Absol and to a lesser extent Cacturne. Ho-oh also got slot of losses but its Ho-oh its gonna SacredRegen its way out of it.
I like the slate, I can't wait for Gen 5 (probably won't tap into Gen 4)!
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My sub so obviously I think it's good. The idea behind Refresh was actually that it was a bit awkward to slot so you wouldn't completely shut down Ho-Oh effortlessly with every set, though it may not be that great of a rocker so it might not matter. STABs are still pretty easy clicks for offensive sets which seems nice. Yeah mostly outclassed unfortunately. Flying/Rock just kinda seems awkward defensively, you're just weak to too many relevant types and a Flying types that's neutral to Grass and Fighting also seems awkward. Agree with Luke here, a bit undertuned, still has some nice matchups though. Raikou seems pretty much statistically better though, so while Latias may be nice to slot as a Dragon type or Defogger, Raikou prob fulfills the niche of fast, bulky special attacker better. Looks kinda cracked imo, it's pretty fast and strong for a mon with an item slot, STAB Knock and very solid coverage. Steel typing affords it so many more opportunities than its bulk may imply and moves like Pursuit and Sucker Punch kinda just feel like icing on the cake. This has a really nice matchup into our removal between Knock, Grass STAB and Fighting coverage, seems really nice. You'll have to plan carefully around its weaknesses though cause those can catch up to it, especially with its speed stat. Really interesting winner though.
I'm not sure how this will perform tbh since it seems to me that a lot of the good mons don't fear Ice moves that much so it won't get that many opportunities to set Spikes. I also have a feeling nonstab EQ will just be awkwardly weak when it comes to breaking through stuff like Hitmontop or Lanturn. Might be better than I make it seem though.
This is like Lele focused on Fairy type damage which ig isn't that bad especially with Ho-Oh around, but we'll need more Steels to keep it in check cause it seems like it'll go crazy rn.Anyway we'll see how the meta deals with Mewtwo+Absol cores, I feel like both mons just kill everything around them and it's crazy how well they pair with eachother. I guess some buffs and nerfs are probably gonna be worth looking into after playtesting.
Thought I'd share my thoughts on the meta and give my initial VR (assumptions) on the meta
First off, when building I realised that you need a core of Regenerators. Ho-Oh is an offensive threat and deals with the likes of Cacturne, Venusaur, Hitmontop, Rapidash and, most importantly, Gardevoir. Donphan gives you a valuable Electric immunity, Ground STAB, Utility options in Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Stealth Rock and priority. Hitmontop gives you an Absol and Gardevoir check and frees Donphan of spin, allowing it to use Stealth Rock or Head Smash.
Donphan and Ho-Oh should be on every team in my opinion. Hitmontop is a solid option, but Intimidate is better in the Absol match-up and recovering in its face is better than relying on Regen to heal.
As far as offensive threats go, Raikou is solid. I don't think it is easily top 3 anymore but it is still good. It's an offensive Pokemon with amazing defensive utility. Checking Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Absol and Gardevoir to an extend is really nice but it is certainly flawed. First off, it needs Deep Sleep to check Ho-Oh but then it becomes a sitting duck. So, it needs Sleep Talk but then it only has 2 moveslots. Now it needs to run a STAB alongside one of Shadow Ball, Surf, Extrasensory, Aurora Beam and Calm Mind. If you remove SleepTalk, then you don't check anything anymore. You are a threatening offensive threat but checking something then threatening back is part of Raikou's appeal.
Gardevoir is pretty much what necessitates Ho-Oh. I've seen some sets that try to use it defensively, but honestly, just click buttons. Wish is a nice option, since it forces switches so you can potentially get a valuable Wish off. However, Specs, Scarf and Calm Mind are its bread and butter. You don't need to get creative with it. You just need STABs and Thunderbolt, mainly for Ho-Oh, so the last move can be whatever you want. Focus Blast for Magneton, Shadow Ball for Gengar and opposing Gardevoir or Healing Wish or Trick.
Gonna group Mewtwo with Absol, cause they are great teammates for eachother. Mewtwo was already a really strong Pokemon. It punches massive holes into a teama and could sweep with Trailblaze, however it a few Pokemon like Starmie, Hypno and Gastly keeping it in check. Yeah, Absol removes that. STAB Knock and Pursuit on a fast Pokemon makes it similar to Mewtwo in a sense. Can either punch holes or sweep. Either way, Absol removes Mewtwos checks and Mewtwo breaks through the Pokemon that check Absol, mainly Donphan and Hitmontop. These two require each others presence to be absolutely broken, but they are really good even solo, especially Absol.
Venusaur certainly fell off, it still works as a solid check to Special Attackers and generally annoying presence with its STABs and Leech Seed, but it has a hard time where Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Gardevoir and Absol are as good as they are. It can check Donphan and Raikou, forcing Extrasensory in the latters case, and Leech Seed is really valuable especially since oppossing Venusaur and Cacturne are the only ones to absorb it.
Gengar, while having weak Boo and Kaboom due to a bug, is still solid. I had it ranked way lower but looking at its toolkit made me reevaluate its effectivenss. Neutralizing Gas is great against the Regenerators and Raikou, while being able to troll Gardevoir is funny. It can Giga Drain for Donphan and Thunderjolt for Ho-Oh, and Boo and Kaboom (once fixed) can deal Raikou (sadly has no Nightmare, that'd be sick) and Sleep Powder is great. Its utility movepool is also great but it has a serious movepool issue, but it can fulfill any role that its user wants and it will do that job greatly.
Solrock is the best Ho-Oh check you will get, but it needs a very specific moveset to do so. Requiring Rock STAB, recovery and Refresh. Meaning that it is either passive or giving some Pokemon a free entry. Toxic does not allow Donphan to switch in, but Absol and Hitmontop deal with it easily. Will-O-Wisp deals with all of them, but Ursaring and Gardevoir do not mind that as much. And Deep Sleep Raikou completely sits on it. Tank sets are probably the best to use, since they don't have coverage issues, but they struggle to check Ho-Oh and its hits can bounce off bulkier Pokemon like Hitmontop and Donphan.
Quagsire is the best check to Raikou you will get and it can annoy Donphan and other physical attackers with Scald. It's main issue is that it is passive. Donphan is a rocker that can force progress with Knock and stronger Earthquakes and Solrock checks Ho-Oh or is a hard hitter when invested into attack. Quagsire still hits hard, but its defensive utility is tied to Electric immunity, Recover and Water Absorb which is less useful than the other two's defensive utility.
Magneton has become slightly better in this meta. First off, it is fast. It does not need to fully invest into speed to outrun Absol (the next fastet Pokemon) thus it can run a little bulk and a modest nature. Ice Beam and Flamethrower are great moves against Cacturne, Donphan, Absol and Hitmontop. It gets checked by Raikou and Donphan is not one-sided, so it can struggle but its speed and power is valuable enough to use.
Dragonite's mixed sets are solid in the tier. Draco Meteor makes Donphan regret not running AV or Special Defense, while EQ is great for Raikou, Absol and Hitmontop. ESpeed helps it out against Mewtwo and Gardevoir. Its problem is Ho-Oh who is only threatened by Stone Edge and it wants Roost to stay healthy when running Life Orb but that removes one of its valuable moves. Dragon Dance can also work, but they are done for when facing Donphan.
Cacturnes Spikes and Knock Off are amazing utility options and they can free some teammates like Donphan or make it really hard for other Pokemon to keep their item, when both run it. Leech Seed (as mentioned in the Venusaur section) is a really annoying move to switch into and with Spiky Shield and Rought Skin, Cacturne is able to accumalte the chip damage on the opponent.
My final verdict of the meta, there is a balance in all the broken, but before moving onto Slate 5, we need to identify the issues and remove them. I find that the most effective way to build a team is:
+ + 
+ Wallbreaker + Cleaner/Sweeper + Filler/Support
Nerfing some of the more oppressive elements like Ho-Oh, Absol, Mewtwo, Gardevoir and Raikou will put this meta in a more balanced state, but we need some testing before we get to that point.
The meta is playable on the new server, so be sure to play some games
Also there's a VR: https://tiermaker.com/create/gen-9-multiverse-1352723
That's it for now, cya!
First off, when building I realised that you need a core of Regenerators. Ho-Oh is an offensive threat and deals with the likes of Cacturne, Venusaur, Hitmontop, Rapidash and, most importantly, Gardevoir. Donphan gives you a valuable Electric immunity, Ground STAB, Utility options in Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Stealth Rock and priority. Hitmontop gives you an Absol and Gardevoir check and frees Donphan of spin, allowing it to use Stealth Rock or Head Smash.
Donphan and Ho-Oh should be on every team in my opinion. Hitmontop is a solid option, but Intimidate is better in the Absol match-up and recovering in its face is better than relying on Regen to heal.
As far as offensive threats go, Raikou is solid. I don't think it is easily top 3 anymore but it is still good. It's an offensive Pokemon with amazing defensive utility. Checking Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Absol and Gardevoir to an extend is really nice but it is certainly flawed. First off, it needs Deep Sleep to check Ho-Oh but then it becomes a sitting duck. So, it needs Sleep Talk but then it only has 2 moveslots. Now it needs to run a STAB alongside one of Shadow Ball, Surf, Extrasensory, Aurora Beam and Calm Mind. If you remove SleepTalk, then you don't check anything anymore. You are a threatening offensive threat but checking something then threatening back is part of Raikou's appeal.
Gardevoir is pretty much what necessitates Ho-Oh. I've seen some sets that try to use it defensively, but honestly, just click buttons. Wish is a nice option, since it forces switches so you can potentially get a valuable Wish off. However, Specs, Scarf and Calm Mind are its bread and butter. You don't need to get creative with it. You just need STABs and Thunderbolt, mainly for Ho-Oh, so the last move can be whatever you want. Focus Blast for Magneton, Shadow Ball for Gengar and opposing Gardevoir or Healing Wish or Trick.
Gonna group Mewtwo with Absol, cause they are great teammates for eachother. Mewtwo was already a really strong Pokemon. It punches massive holes into a teama and could sweep with Trailblaze, however it a few Pokemon like Starmie, Hypno and Gastly keeping it in check. Yeah, Absol removes that. STAB Knock and Pursuit on a fast Pokemon makes it similar to Mewtwo in a sense. Can either punch holes or sweep. Either way, Absol removes Mewtwos checks and Mewtwo breaks through the Pokemon that check Absol, mainly Donphan and Hitmontop. These two require each others presence to be absolutely broken, but they are really good even solo, especially Absol.
Venusaur certainly fell off, it still works as a solid check to Special Attackers and generally annoying presence with its STABs and Leech Seed, but it has a hard time where Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Gardevoir and Absol are as good as they are. It can check Donphan and Raikou, forcing Extrasensory in the latters case, and Leech Seed is really valuable especially since oppossing Venusaur and Cacturne are the only ones to absorb it.
Gengar, while having weak Boo and Kaboom due to a bug, is still solid. I had it ranked way lower but looking at its toolkit made me reevaluate its effectivenss. Neutralizing Gas is great against the Regenerators and Raikou, while being able to troll Gardevoir is funny. It can Giga Drain for Donphan and Thunderjolt for Ho-Oh, and Boo and Kaboom (once fixed) can deal Raikou (sadly has no Nightmare, that'd be sick) and Sleep Powder is great. Its utility movepool is also great but it has a serious movepool issue, but it can fulfill any role that its user wants and it will do that job greatly.
Solrock is the best Ho-Oh check you will get, but it needs a very specific moveset to do so. Requiring Rock STAB, recovery and Refresh. Meaning that it is either passive or giving some Pokemon a free entry. Toxic does not allow Donphan to switch in, but Absol and Hitmontop deal with it easily. Will-O-Wisp deals with all of them, but Ursaring and Gardevoir do not mind that as much. And Deep Sleep Raikou completely sits on it. Tank sets are probably the best to use, since they don't have coverage issues, but they struggle to check Ho-Oh and its hits can bounce off bulkier Pokemon like Hitmontop and Donphan.
Quagsire is the best check to Raikou you will get and it can annoy Donphan and other physical attackers with Scald. It's main issue is that it is passive. Donphan is a rocker that can force progress with Knock and stronger Earthquakes and Solrock checks Ho-Oh or is a hard hitter when invested into attack. Quagsire still hits hard, but its defensive utility is tied to Electric immunity, Recover and Water Absorb which is less useful than the other two's defensive utility.
Magneton has become slightly better in this meta. First off, it is fast. It does not need to fully invest into speed to outrun Absol (the next fastet Pokemon) thus it can run a little bulk and a modest nature. Ice Beam and Flamethrower are great moves against Cacturne, Donphan, Absol and Hitmontop. It gets checked by Raikou and Donphan is not one-sided, so it can struggle but its speed and power is valuable enough to use.
Dragonite's mixed sets are solid in the tier. Draco Meteor makes Donphan regret not running AV or Special Defense, while EQ is great for Raikou, Absol and Hitmontop. ESpeed helps it out against Mewtwo and Gardevoir. Its problem is Ho-Oh who is only threatened by Stone Edge and it wants Roost to stay healthy when running Life Orb but that removes one of its valuable moves. Dragon Dance can also work, but they are done for when facing Donphan.
Cacturnes Spikes and Knock Off are amazing utility options and they can free some teammates like Donphan or make it really hard for other Pokemon to keep their item, when both run it. Leech Seed (as mentioned in the Venusaur section) is a really annoying move to switch into and with Spiky Shield and Rought Skin, Cacturne is able to accumalte the chip damage on the opponent.
My final verdict of the meta, there is a balance in all the broken, but before moving onto Slate 5, we need to identify the issues and remove them. I find that the most effective way to build a team is:
+ + + Wallbreaker + Cleaner/Sweeper + Filler/SupportNerfing some of the more oppressive elements like Ho-Oh, Absol, Mewtwo, Gardevoir and Raikou will put this meta in a more balanced state, but we need some testing before we get to that point.
The meta is playable on the new server, so be sure to play some games
Also there's a VR: https://tiermaker.com/create/gen-9-multiverse-1352723
That's it for now, cya!
Servus!
I'd like to talk about two important things here. First being the tournament, its usage stats and standout Pokemon, and the state of the meta and its balance. Before I start, all of the proposals in the Balance Change section are my proposals. I'm not speaking for the council but giving my suggestions as a tour host and player based on Replays, Battles and discussions with other people.
1. Tournament
1.1 Stats and Takeaways
Gen 9 Multiverse
My main takeaways from the tournament are that Regenerator cores are too fat and obnoxious to deal with. Offensive threats can gang up to eliminate their checks and most games have a stall phase where your defensive Pokemon try to outlast the opponents defensive Pokemon. Afterwards you try to end the game quickly with your Wallbreaker/Sweeper of choice.
As far as roles and typings go, Hazard Game is really restrictive. Spinners are usually Donphan and Hitmontop and the setters are Cacturne, Donphan, Solrock or Quagsire. We need more removal options and setting options and more types to cover these roles, not just Steels, Rocks and Grounds. Speaking of which, Ground inheritly broken here. Cacturne is the only resist and Ho-Oh and Solrock have the only immunities. Well, the only two that are relevant, sorry Regirock.
I cannot guarantee anything, but I will talk with the council about Restrictions in the next slate in order to focus more on roles and typings that the meta needs overall, rather than checks to Pokemon in the meta.
1.2 The Pokemon and their Traits
King of the CloudsHo-Oh is easily the best and most centralizing Pokemon in the tier. Its phenominal bulk allows it to check 80% of the metagame with half of them not being able to do anything to Ho-Oh in return. Its high Attack also makes it hard to deal with due to Sacred Fires and Brave Birds great offensive coverage and power. Burns from Sacred Fire or Toxic remove the need for Earthquake, although this move is still good against Pokemon like Lanturn and Raikou. Ho-Ohs set versatility is also amazing. Defensive sets with Toxic and Defog are great and consistant Hazard removers, Offensive sets with a utility move in the last slot are extremely difficult to switch into without a Solrock or Regirock. But you wanna know what's more difficult? CB Ho-Oh which could afford to run CB because of Regenerator and the Spinning of other Regenerators in Donphan and Hitmontop. CB is nightmarish to check, even Solrock fearing an Iron Head that Ho-Oh could run because the last move was just filler at this point. And it could do all that while checking Donphan, Hitmontop, Cacturne and Gardevoir. Easily the best Pokemon and the one most need of a nerf.
Staying AliveDonphan and Hitmontop are clearly Top 5, even Top 3 in my opinion, and it is easy to see why. They both work really well with Ho-Oh and can even cripple it with Knock Off, Toxic and in Donphans case, Head Smash. Donphan is an effective Pokemon, game in and game out with set consisting of Earthquake, Rapid Spin, Knock Off and a filler move of Choice. The aforementioned Head Smash for Ho-Oh, Ice Shard for priority against Cacturne and Gardevoir, Steath Rock and other moves like Encore and Roar can have their uses. Donphan will most likely be on top of the meta for a long time. I don't believe it's a centralizing force, just a good Pokemon to have around. Hitmontop does similar things as Donphan. Intimidate was a fun idea but it looks like Regenerator is the best set you can use. U-turn, Bullet Punch, Close Combat, Rapid Spin, Recover and Toxic are common moves it runs and with its Absol and Cacturne checking abilities, it builds a fantastic core with Donphan and Ho-Oh. Running it alongside Donphan frees it from Rapid Spin and it is a worse spinner than Donphan, because Donphan deals with Gengar and Gastly better. These two are are phenominal and you cannot do anything wrong by putting them onto your team.
Little Dark AgeThese are the most prominant offensive threats. Mewtwo has been raising eyebrows since its introduction. Sword of Ruin is a disgustingly good ability on it and pair that with the high Basepower of STAB Close Combat and the speed boost of Trailblaze and you have one of the most threatening Wallbreakers/Sweepers in the meta. It has very few checks and those checks are basically non-existant with the presence of Absols Blitzkrieg. Speaking of which, Absol is another threatening Wallbreaker. It has high Attack and Speed, which allows it not only to outrun almost the entire metagame but also smack them hard with STAB Knock Off Blitzkrieg is also useful for assuring a KO on a key target like Ho-Oh, Gardevoir or Gengar. Magic Bounce and Steel-type gives it some opportunities to switch in but it is still extremely frail, thus a pivoting teammate is great for it, like Hitmontop. Gardevoir is a Special Attacker in this constellation. Pixelgreat makes Hyper Voice a pretty strong STAB option and combine that with Thunderbolt and Psyshock for coverage and you hit everything in the meta pretty hard. Well, outside of Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh eats Hyper Voices for days. Psyshocks and Thunderbolts becomes more problematic but as long as they are not Specs, Ho-Oh can take them. If they are Specs, then Ho-Oh scouts, switches off and heals off the damage in the process and switches into Absol, Cacturne, Lanturn or Donphan to eat those hits. Cacturne is a recent addition to this group. It was discovered that, similar to Absol, STAB Knock Off is a really strong weapon. If you wanna be technical about it, since Cacturne isn't too reliant on its speed, it can run Adamant thus outdamaging Absols Knock Off. Add in Taunt, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Leech Seed and Switcheroo as utility options and you have a Wallbreaker that support its team even if hard walled by Hitmontop.
Electric AvennueRaikou is an extremely gifted Pokemon. Tablets of Ruin and Vessel of Ruin in one ability? Gen 2 Rest mechanics? Good attacking moves and Calm Mind? This must be extremely strong, isn't it? Yeah duh, it is good, however it is flawed given that it cannot utilise everything in its arsenal. The ability makes it a fast, strong and bulky attacker, so you want to run attacks. Thunderbolt, Surf, Aurora Beam and Extrasensory provide the coverage to hit everything in the meta. However, there's an issue. If you don't think as hard as you want to. With Specs you have to rely on prediction and with Life Orb you're limiting your defensive utility. So maybe Calm Mind? Good option, but now you lack the coverage to hit one or two key Pokemon. Okay, maybe I don't Raikou as my Set-Up Sweeper or Wallbreaker, so I can use it as my Tank? Yes, you can! Deep Sleep and Sleep Talk give it phenominal longevity but now it is passive and lacks coverage. Raikou is by no means bad, it is really good but it can be inconsistant since certain sets match up better or worse into certain opponents. But it remains phenominal and you don't do anything wrong by using it. Lanturn is new to the list of relevant Pokemon. Being a Water-type being able to resist Fire, Water and being immune to Electric is really nice and it means that you hard wall almost all of Raikous sets. Ho-Oh without EQ is also a great match up for it due to Heal Bell being able to counteract burns and Toxic. It is rather passive against many Pokemon since it cannot set-up or do a lot of damage, but Scald, Volt Switch and Toxic are spammable moves and Wish and Heal Bell provide great utility.
You Win AgainThese Pokemon are underrated in my opinion. Venusaur has amazing defensive utility with it only having 2 weaknesses in Flying and Psychic. Now, yes. These types are common with Ho-Oh and Gardevoir being everywhere. Loosing to Ho-Oh is hardly shameful though, since it is Ho-Oh. Being able to switch into Hyper Voice or Thunderbolt from Gardevoir is pretty nice, since you don't have to rely solely on Ho-Oh to check it. Sludge Bomb poison, Leech Seed, Knock Off and Sleep Powder are hard moves to switch into and it is able to check common Pokemon like Hitmontop, Cacturne, Raikou, Lanturn and Gengar. Speaking of which, Gengar is phenominal. It is specially bulky, nullifies abilities and threatens every Regenerator Pokemon out with its moves. Sleep Powder and Giga Drain threaten Donphan, Thunderjolt annoys Ho-Oh and Hitmontop gets destroyed by Gengar. Neutralizing Gas also allows you to switch into Hyper Voice from Gardevoir even at low health since you are immune to Normal. Magic Bounce and Legendary Beast getting nullified also make Absol and Raikou not want to switch in. It is really threatening on its own with the power of Thunderjolt, Kaboom and Boo and the potential of Nasty Plot can end games in many cases.
Yuck.I paired these Pokemon here because of their inability to damage the Regenerator cores or being checked by offensive Pokemon in the metagame. Latias relies on its item and without it, it is bad and gets checked by Ho-Oh and Gardevoir. Rapidash does nothing against Ho-Oh. Yeah, that's it. Bad. Dragonite struggles against all of the Regenerator Pokemon. Its damage gets nullified pretty easily. Glalie might be a good Lead and it annoys Rapid Spin Donphan but it is hard checked by Venusaur, Ho-Oh and Rapid Spin Hitmontop.
Rock BottomSolrock is probably the best Stealth Rock setter and the only consistant Ho-Oh check, but still gets annoyed by common options like Sacred Fire and Toxic. Solrock has its way around those with Lum Berry, Refresh and Covert Cloak in the formers case. Play Rough and Rock Slide/Stone Edge are great offensive moves and Kaboom always forces progress onto the opponent. It has a similar issue to Raikou where it has a serious 4MSS. It is your Ho-Oh check but getting burned ruins it, so you either have to use Lanturn alongside it or if you want to be self sufficient, you can run Refresh. In longer games you want Morning Sun and more offensive teams you want Kaboom. Now you have to choose between Stealth Rock, Earthquake and STABs. It is still a good Pokemon and being the only good Ho-Oh check really restricts its options. This is moreso Ho-Ohs fault though.
2. Balance Changes
Remember these are my proposals. Nothing is set in stone and I want to include the playerbase for these balance changes.
Nerf Proposals:
: -20 Atk, -10 Def, -Recover & Roost
This makes Ho-Oh less threatening overall and greatly reduces its longevity. You are no longer able to 1v1 a lot of Pokemon with the removal of Recover and Roost. Ho-Oh still has its great Special Defense and Regenerator, which allows it to check Gardevoir and Rapidash, but it is overall less obnixious to take down and eating its hits has become easier.
-Swords of Ruin, +10 Spe
I decided to remove the ability that makes it so hard to deal with and as a compensation buff I gave it +10 Speed. That allows it to somewhat retain a niche as a fast Fighting-type without outclassing Machamp.
-Recover, -10 Def, -10 SpD
U-turn and Rapid Spin on a Regenerator was just too much, since it can maintain momentum and remove the passive damage that reduces its longevity. The Recover removal, like Ho-Oh, removes a lot of 1v1 potential and the defense nerfs make passsive damage stick more and overwhelm it more easily.
-Blitzkrieg, -Iron Head, -Steel
The addition of Blitzkrieg and Steel were quite unnecessary and therefore they are removed. Blitzkrieg removed any viability that Starmie, Gastly, Hypno and to an extend Gengar might've had. The removal of Steel also make Solrock and Ursaring better options against it since it now has to rely on Iron Tail to hit them effectively.
Pokemon that I didn't include:
- Donphan does not have any standout thing about it that is broken. It is simply versatile and pretty good at its job. With the nerf of Ho-Oh, it might become better but I'm not convinced that it would be too much.
- The raise of Lanturn showed me that a lot of Pokemon that check it defensively and offensively. Ho-Oh is still as good as checking it as it was before.
- I think that the 4MSS seriously holds it back enough not to get nerfed. Also the nerfs listed above are not changes that make it better. However, the buffs below might keep it more in check.
Potential Buffs:
+Recover, +Stealth Rock
With a nerf to Absol and these moves, Hypno becomes a lot better and can now support its team. It can now check Gardevoir, Raikou and Mewtwo way better.
Soul Dew: 1.3x -> 1.5x boost, +5 SpA, +SpD
Saying that this Pokemon had a soft landing is an understatement. I seriously overestimate the power of a 1.3x boost. With these changes, Latias' SpA goes from 349 to 418 with max EVs and its SpD goes from 362 to 433 with max EVs. This is a big buff but it is reliant on its item and gets revenge-killed.
+Rock Head, +Brave Bird, +Bulk Up
I seriously didn't how to buff these, but my idea was to make it a bulky Set-Up sweeper whose bulk allows it to run Rest without relying on Sleep Talk. Now it can turn Ho-Oh presence into offense.
Eviolite Compatible, +10 SpD
Now it is a bulky RestTalker that can tank Special hits easier or a slow bulky Wallbreaker. It generally likes to switch into Ho-Oh and does not need Flame Orb so it can run Eviolite.
These are my ideas however and I really like to hear the thoughts of the players. Please fill out this poll for the balance changes that take place after the tour or in the finals (if both the finalists are fine with it). I also want to add that active players of this mod and people who made it further into the tournament have their votes weight more.
https://forms.gle/xhwLtHDDsqwzU8o38
That's it for now. Hopefully, this meta will be in a more balanced state before moving onto Slate 4, which should hopefully introduce more unique Pokemon instead of trying to check the meta.
I'd like to talk about two important things here. First being the tournament, its usage stats and standout Pokemon, and the state of the meta and its balance. Before I start, all of the proposals in the Balance Change section are my proposals. I'm not speaking for the council but giving my suggestions as a tour host and player based on Replays, Battles and discussions with other people.
1. Tournament
1.1 Stats and Takeaways
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Ho-Oh | 15 | 75.00% | 40.00% |
| 2 | Mewtwo | 13 | 65.00% | 30.77% |
| 2 | Donphan | 13 | 65.00% | 38.46% |
| 4 | Gardevoir | 12 | 60.00% | 58.33% |
| 4 | Hitmontop | 12 | 60.00% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Absol | 11 | 55.00% | 54.55% |
| 7 | Solrock | 9 | 45.00% | 66.67% |
| 8 | Lanturn | 6 | 30.00% | 50.00% |
| 9 | Starmie | 4 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 9 | Raikou | 4 | 20.00% | 75.00% |
| 9 | Cacturne | 4 | 20.00% | 75.00% |
| 12 | Rapidash | 3 | 15.00% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Gastly | 3 | 15.00% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Gengar | 2 | 10.00% | 100.00% |
| 14 | Latias | 2 | 10.00% | 50.00% |
| 14 | Magneton | 2 | 10.00% | 0.00% |
| 14 | Venusaur | 2 | 10.00% | 100.00% |
| 18 | Dragonite | 1 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Glalie | 1 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Quagsire | 1 | 5.00% | 0.00% |My main takeaways from the tournament are that Regenerator cores are too fat and obnoxious to deal with. Offensive threats can gang up to eliminate their checks and most games have a stall phase where your defensive Pokemon try to outlast the opponents defensive Pokemon. Afterwards you try to end the game quickly with your Wallbreaker/Sweeper of choice.
As far as roles and typings go, Hazard Game is really restrictive. Spinners are usually Donphan and Hitmontop and the setters are Cacturne, Donphan, Solrock or Quagsire. We need more removal options and setting options and more types to cover these roles, not just Steels, Rocks and Grounds. Speaking of which, Ground inheritly broken here. Cacturne is the only resist and Ho-Oh and Solrock have the only immunities. Well, the only two that are relevant, sorry Regirock.
I cannot guarantee anything, but I will talk with the council about Restrictions in the next slate in order to focus more on roles and typings that the meta needs overall, rather than checks to Pokemon in the meta.
1.2 The Pokemon and their Traits
King of the Clouds
Staying Alive
Little Dark Age
Electric Avennue
You Win Again
Yuck.
Rock Bottom
2. Balance Changes
Remember these are my proposals. Nothing is set in stone and I want to include the playerbase for these balance changes.
Nerf Proposals:
: -20 Atk, -10 Def, -Recover & RoostThis makes Ho-Oh less threatening overall and greatly reduces its longevity. You are no longer able to 1v1 a lot of Pokemon with the removal of Recover and Roost. Ho-Oh still has its great Special Defense and Regenerator, which allows it to check Gardevoir and Rapidash, but it is overall less obnixious to take down and eating its hits has become easier.
-Swords of Ruin, +10 SpeI decided to remove the ability that makes it so hard to deal with and as a compensation buff I gave it +10 Speed. That allows it to somewhat retain a niche as a fast Fighting-type without outclassing Machamp.
-Recover, -10 Def, -10 SpDU-turn and Rapid Spin on a Regenerator was just too much, since it can maintain momentum and remove the passive damage that reduces its longevity. The Recover removal, like Ho-Oh, removes a lot of 1v1 potential and the defense nerfs make passsive damage stick more and overwhelm it more easily.
-Blitzkrieg, -Iron Head, -SteelThe addition of Blitzkrieg and Steel were quite unnecessary and therefore they are removed. Blitzkrieg removed any viability that Starmie, Gastly, Hypno and to an extend Gengar might've had. The removal of Steel also make Solrock and Ursaring better options against it since it now has to rely on Iron Tail to hit them effectively.
Pokemon that I didn't include:
- Donphan does not have any standout thing about it that is broken. It is simply versatile and pretty good at its job. With the nerf of Ho-Oh, it might become better but I'm not convinced that it would be too much. - The raise of Lanturn showed me that a lot of Pokemon that check it defensively and offensively. Ho-Oh is still as good as checking it as it was before. - I think that the 4MSS seriously holds it back enough not to get nerfed. Also the nerfs listed above are not changes that make it better. However, the buffs below might keep it more in check.Potential Buffs:
+Recover, +Stealth RockWith a nerf to Absol and these moves, Hypno becomes a lot better and can now support its team. It can now check Gardevoir, Raikou and Mewtwo way better.
Soul Dew: 1.3x -> 1.5x boost, +5 SpA, +SpDSaying that this Pokemon had a soft landing is an understatement. I seriously overestimate the power of a 1.3x boost. With these changes, Latias' SpA goes from 349 to 418 with max EVs and its SpD goes from 362 to 433 with max EVs. This is a big buff but it is reliant on its item and gets revenge-killed.
+Rock Head, +Brave Bird, +Bulk UpI seriously didn't how to buff these, but my idea was to make it a bulky Set-Up sweeper whose bulk allows it to run Rest without relying on Sleep Talk. Now it can turn Ho-Oh presence into offense.
Eviolite Compatible, +10 SpDNow it is a bulky RestTalker that can tank Special hits easier or a slow bulky Wallbreaker. It generally likes to switch into Ho-Oh and does not need Flame Orb so it can run Eviolite.
These are my ideas however and I really like to hear the thoughts of the players. Please fill out this poll for the balance changes that take place after the tour or in the finals (if both the finalists are fine with it). I also want to add that active players of this mod and people who made it further into the tournament have their votes weight more.
https://forms.gle/xhwLtHDDsqwzU8o38
That's it for now. Hopefully, this meta will be in a more balanced state before moving onto Slate 4, which should hopefully introduce more unique Pokemon instead of trying to check the meta.
Hopefully, after the tour we can get more detailed usage stats, like what is the common moves being run on each Pokémon and items and teammates and what not, will be important to be able to fully gauge what to do. The metagame feels a little weird but I genuinely think a part of it has to do with it feeling really small - mainly because of so many dead slot options in an already small metagame. Ho-Oh imo is the only thing I THINK right now needs a nerf, with Mewtwo being a possible follow up. Ho-Oh is just too good at more or less everything, and while Mewtwo itself isn't performing as well as I think, I think it's a bit wack to check long term. I think for right now most other stuff needs buffs regardless and anything else that's problematic may fall in line by Gen 4.
I agree with ViZ, I think we need some more diversity not only in options for roles, but in our existing team structures. Hopefully, some important buffs and key additions will set the meta on the right track by Gen 4. I'll reserve my full thoughts on specific Pokémon until the culmination of the tour + a few extra battles on my side.
I'd like to hear the thoughts of other players and what they think about the other Pokemon in the meta.
I was genuinely confused when ViZar mentioned Regirock as if it was in the metagame but turns out it does?!? Goddamn, what a Mon.
I agree with ViZ, I think we need some more diversity not only in options for roles, but in our existing team structures. Hopefully, some important buffs and key additions will set the meta on the right track by Gen 4. I'll reserve my full thoughts on specific Pokémon until the culmination of the tour + a few extra battles on my side.
I'd like to hear the thoughts of other players and what they think about the other Pokemon in the meta.
I was genuinely confused when ViZar mentioned Regirock as if it was in the metagame but turns out it does?!? Goddamn, what a Mon.
Might as well post this before I push it back again.
Here are the Usage Stats for Round 2 of the tour.
Gen 9 Multiverse
Gen 9 Multiverse
I don't want to focus much on the usage stats since the meta will be seing a lof of change hint hint
However, I'd like to focus on some Standouts.
- Solrock has taken its spot as the number 1 most used Pokemon, dethroning Ho-Oh. Although, it is number 1 because of Ho-Oh so interpret what you want into it.
- Gastly has seen so much usage. I wish I could tell you what it does but I haven't watched the replays so sorry about that.
- Donphan isn't high up which is surprising but it makes sense since Ho-Oh and Hitmontop are the Regen mons you need the most.
- Bro fucking sucks lmao
Okay now onto the meat of this discussion. This meta needs a lot of work to be done. Therefore, I decided to do discussions in the discord server, look through replays and asked for feedbacks from the players. Now we have a poll for the Final Balance Changes. There are multiple choices for the nerfs based multiple Wishes of the people who filled out the previous poll. Remember only one of these changes can be selected.
-10 HP, -10 Atk
In addition to one of these:
Regenerator -> Natural Cure
-Sacred Fire, -Toxic
-10 Atk, -Recover, -Roost
-Regenerator, +Recover
No Changes
-Regenerator, +10 Atk
-10 Def, -10 SpD, +20 Atk
Pixelgreat -> Pixilate
No Changes
-Blitzkrieg
-10 Atk, -10 Spe
-Steel, -Iron Head
-Swords of Ruin, +10 Spe, +Swords Dance
-10 HP
No Changes
+10 HP, +5 Spe
+Bitter Blade, +Thunderbolt, +Power Gem
In addition to one of these:
+15 Def, +10 SpD
+10 Atk, +10 SpA
+15 SpA, +10 SpD, +Aura Sphere
+5 SpA, +5 SpD, Soul Dew: 1.3x -> 1.5x, +Aura Sphere
+Brave Bird, +Bulk Up, +Roost, +Rock Head, +Spikes, +Defog
+10 Def, +10 SpD
In addition to:
+Poison Heal
Type Change (Type is not defined yet. Considerations are: Dark, Ground or Fighting)
+Eviolite
+Recover, +Poison, +Sludge Bomb, +Stealth Rock, +Toxic Spikes
+10 Atk
+High Jump Kick, +Bullet Punch, +Knock Off
+10 SpA, +Calm Mind
+Recover
+Synthesis
Here is the survey: https://forms.gle/jvUNq572R4EY54pc9
Thanks for participating to the mod and metagame thus far! Have a good one.
Here are the Usage Stats for Round 2 of the tour.
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Solrock | 12 | 66.67% | 41.67% |
| 1 | Gardevoir | 12 | 66.67% | 58.33% |
| 3 | Ho-Oh | 11 | 61.11% | 54.55% |
| 4 | Hitmontop | 10 | 55.56% | 50.00% |
| 5 | Absol | 9 | 50.00% | 55.56% |
| 6 | Gastly | 8 | 44.44% | 37.50% |
| 6 | Donphan | 8 | 44.44% | 62.50% |
| 8 | Raikou | 6 | 33.33% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Cacturne | 6 | 33.33% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Venusaur | 5 | 27.78% | 60.00% |
| 10 | Mewtwo | 5 | 27.78% | 20.00% |
| 10 | Lanturn | 5 | 27.78% | 80.00% |
| 13 | Starmie | 3 | 16.67% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Gengar | 3 | 16.67% | 100.00% |
| 13 | Magneton | 3 | 16.67% | 33.33% |
| 16 | Rapidash | 1 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
| 16 | Dragonite | 1 | 5.56% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Ho-Oh | 26 | 68.42% | 46.15% |
| 2 | Gardevoir | 24 | 63.16% | 58.33% |
| 3 | Hitmontop | 22 | 57.89% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Solrock | 21 | 55.26% | 52.38% |
| 4 | Donphan | 21 | 55.26% | 47.62% |
| 6 | Absol | 20 | 52.63% | 55.00% |
| 7 | Mewtwo | 18 | 47.37% | 27.78% |
| 8 | Lanturn | 11 | 28.95% | 63.64% |
| 8 | Gastly | 11 | 28.95% | 45.45% |
| 10 | Raikou | 10 | 26.32% | 60.00% |
| 10 | Cacturne | 10 | 26.32% | 60.00% |
| 12 | Venusaur | 7 | 18.42% | 71.43% |
| 12 | Starmie | 7 | 18.42% | 57.14% |
| 14 | Gengar | 5 | 13.16% | 100.00% |
| 14 | Magneton | 5 | 13.16% | 20.00% |
| 16 | Rapidash | 4 | 10.53% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Latias | 2 | 5.26% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Dragonite | 2 | 5.26% | 0.00% |
| 19 | Glalie | 1 | 2.63% | 0.00% |
| 19 | Quagsire | 1 | 2.63% | 0.00% |I don't want to focus much on the usage stats since the meta will be seing a lof of change hint hint
However, I'd like to focus on some Standouts.
- Solrock has taken its spot as the number 1 most used Pokemon, dethroning Ho-Oh. Although, it is number 1 because of Ho-Oh so interpret what you want into it. - Gastly has seen so much usage. I wish I could tell you what it does but I haven't watched the replays so sorry about that. - Donphan isn't high up which is surprising but it makes sense since Ho-Oh and Hitmontop are the Regen mons you need the most. - Bro fucking sucks lmaoOkay now onto the meat of this discussion. This meta needs a lot of work to be done. Therefore, I decided to do discussions in the discord server, look through replays and asked for feedbacks from the players. Now we have a poll for the Final Balance Changes. There are multiple choices for the nerfs based multiple Wishes of the people who filled out the previous poll. Remember only one of these changes can be selected.
-10 HP, -10 AtkIn addition to one of these:
Regenerator -> Natural Cure -Sacred Fire, -Toxic -10 Atk, -Recover, -Roost -Regenerator, +Recover No Changes -Regenerator, +10 Atk -10 Def, -10 SpD, +20 Atk Pixelgreat -> Pixilate No Changes -Blitzkrieg -10 Atk, -10 Spe -Steel, -Iron Head -Swords of Ruin, +10 Spe, +Swords Dance -10 HP No Changes +10 HP, +5 Spe +Bitter Blade, +Thunderbolt, +Power GemIn addition to one of these:
+15 Def, +10 SpD +10 Atk, +10 SpA +15 SpA, +10 SpD, +Aura Sphere +5 SpA, +5 SpD, Soul Dew: 1.3x -> 1.5x, +Aura Sphere +Brave Bird, +Bulk Up, +Roost, +Rock Head, +Spikes, +Defog +10 Def, +10 SpDIn addition to:
+Poison Heal Type Change (Type is not defined yet. Considerations are: Dark, Ground or Fighting) +Eviolite +Recover, +Poison, +Sludge Bomb, +Stealth Rock, +Toxic Spikes +10 Atk +High Jump Kick, +Bullet Punch, +Knock Off +10 SpA, +Calm Mind +Recover+SynthesisThanks for participating to the mod and metagame thus far! Have a good one.
Aight sorry for the long wait. There's also a lot to discuss.
First off, the usage stats. I won't go indepth on them since I would repeat things you've heard a 1000 times.
Also congrats to Orangesodapop for winning the tournament and thanks to everyone who participated. I hope that y'all had fun especially in an unbalanced meta like this.
Now onto the most exciting part of this post. Balance Changes! The poll has ended and quite a large number of people participated in them. I will also put my personal thoughts underneath them, if you are interested in my opinion that no one asked for, it will be in a spoiler.
-20 Atk, -10 HP, -Recover, -Roost
-Regenerator, +10 Atk
-Steel & Iron Head
-Swords of Ruin, +10 Spe, +Swords Dance
+Bitter Blade, +Thunderbolt, +Power Gem, +10 Atk, +10 SpA
+15 SpA, +10 SpD, +Aura Sphere
+Brave Bird, +Bulk Up, +Roost, +Rock Head, +Spikes, +Defog
+10 Def, +10 SpD, +Eviolite
+Poison, +Recover, Sludge Bomb, +Stealth Rock, +Toxic Spikes
+10 Atk
+High Jump Kick, +Knock Off, +Bullet Punch
+10 SpA, +Calm Mind
The following Pokemon receive no changes:
These are a lot of impactful changes and will definitively allow for more creativity in team choices, especially with Slate 5 soon, which should hopefully fill these holes. Other than that, I believe that the meta will be on a good path after this balance slate.
- I believe that Ho-Oh got the lightest nerf eventhough it should realistically get the biggest one. It is way safer to switch into and the loss of recovery is huge, especially in 1v1 situations. However, Sacred Fire and Toxic will keep it close to Top 3, if not it will remain the single best Pokemon. I think it should've gotten Sacred Fire and Toxic axed instead, so that Regirock can also be a solid answer to it.
- Honestly, I think this Pokemon is dead. It is stronger and still has Recover, but Regenerator made it so good and being forced to recover actively, instead of passively, will be a huge blow to it.
- Not my favourite idea for it but it works. Relying on Iron Tail to fit Solrock will be annoying and making it less useful defensively really necessitates more momentum to get it in.
- While I do believe that Machamp will be the better offensive Fighting-type, I would've discount Mewtwo since it is faster now and can sweep with Trailblaze and Swords Dance. It isn't easily the best offensive Fighting-type anymore.
- Nice buff. Definitively more useful but still has solid checks if it misses a move on a certain set, but now won't feel like dead weight.
- Probably the best buff for it. Not having to rely on Soul Dew makes it a lot more flexible. Now it can still use Soul Dew but using Leftovers or Choice Scarf is also great.
- This should hopefully provide a unique niche alongside Solrock. Since it is so bulky, I can see it using Rest in one of its slots to check Ho-Oh and stay healthy to sweep late game.
- Not my favourite buff for it but it will work wonders honestly. RestTalk can also function well as status absorption and as a tank.
- The type change is great and it helps check Gardevoir, so you don't have to rely on Ho-Oh. Not much else to say but overall a solid buff.
- It's good. Was pretty hard to find a way to buff it without going overboard. It is good and with the nerf to Ho-Oh and Hitmontop, its damage definitively sticks more.
This Pokemon will be good. Probably the best wallbreaker we will have. Relying on inaccurate moves, especially HJK, will makes it somewhat of a high risk high reward Pokemon. Knock and Bullet Punch are also great additions for it.
- Starmie always had potential but it needed something to really give it that punch to make it worth using and this is definitively the buff for it.
Second to last thing. Thanks to the submissions of Orangesodapop Mossy Sandwich Gaboswampert G-Luke BOTW Enjoyer and myself, we have a Viability Ranking for the Hoenn Metagame (yes I'm calling it that)
And last but certaintly not least, Slate 5 will arrive soon. You can discuss potential submissions and get ideas for set submissions. I highly encourage people to create Pokemon that will change the meta in a way that benefits teambuilding rather than the meta itself. I think we can all agree that "countering the meta" isn't a fun formunla for creating Pokemon, especially since we have a lot of these in the meta rn. I think Pokemon that compress more roles and create new offensive or defensive cores is something that will make the meta more diverse and fun to build with. Hopefully, we will see new and unique traits for Pokemon.
That's it for now, cya!
First off, the usage stats. I won't go indepth on them since I would repeat things you've heard a 1000 times.
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Ho-Oh | 4 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 1 | Gardevoir | 4 | 100.00% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Lanturn | 3 | 75.00% | 33.33% |
| 3 | Hitmontop | 3 | 75.00% | 33.33% |
| 5 | Donphan | 2 | 50.00% | 100.00% |
| 5 | Gengar | 2 | 50.00% | 50.00% |
| 5 | Cacturne | 2 | 50.00% | 0.00% |
| 8 | Magneton | 1 | 25.00% | 100.00% |
| 8 | Raikou | 1 | 25.00% | 100.00% |
| 8 | Solrock | 1 | 25.00% | 100.00% |
| 8 | Dragonite | 1 | 25.00% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Ho-Oh | 30 | 71.43% | 46.67% |
| 2 | Gardevoir | 28 | 66.67% | 57.14% |
| 3 | Hitmontop | 25 | 59.52% | 48.00% |
| 4 | Donphan | 23 | 54.76% | 52.17% |
| 5 | Solrock | 22 | 52.38% | 54.55% |
| 6 | Absol | 20 | 47.62% | 55.00% |
| 7 | Mewtwo | 18 | 42.86% | 27.78% |
| 8 | Lanturn | 14 | 33.33% | 57.14% |
| 9 | Cacturne | 12 | 28.57% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Raikou | 11 | 26.19% | 63.64% |
| 10 | Gastly | 11 | 26.19% | 45.45% |
| 12 | Gengar | 7 | 16.67% | 85.71% |
| 12 | Venusaur | 7 | 16.67% | 71.43% |
| 12 | Starmie | 7 | 16.67% | 57.14% |
| 15 | Magneton | 6 | 14.29% | 33.33% |
| 16 | Rapidash | 4 | 9.52% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Dragonite | 3 | 7.14% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Latias | 2 | 4.76% | 50.00% |
| 19 | Glalie | 1 | 2.38% | 0.00% |
| 19 | Quagsire | 1 | 2.38% | 0.00% |Also congrats to Orangesodapop for winning the tournament and thanks to everyone who participated. I hope that y'all had fun especially in an unbalanced meta like this.
Now onto the most exciting part of this post. Balance Changes! The poll has ended and quite a large number of people participated in them. I will also put my personal thoughts underneath them, if you are interested in my opinion that no one asked for, it will be in a spoiler.
-20 Atk, -10 HP, -Recover, -Roost
-Regenerator, +10 Atk
-Steel & Iron Head
-Swords of Ruin, +10 Spe, +Swords Dance
+Bitter Blade, +Thunderbolt, +Power Gem, +10 Atk, +10 SpA
+15 SpA, +10 SpD, +Aura Sphere
+Brave Bird, +Bulk Up, +Roost, +Rock Head, +Spikes, +Defog
+10 Def, +10 SpD, +Eviolite
+Poison, +Recover, Sludge Bomb, +Stealth Rock, +Toxic Spikes
+10 Atk
+High Jump Kick, +Knock Off, +Bullet Punch
+10 SpA, +Calm Mind
The following Pokemon receive no changes:
These are a lot of impactful changes and will definitively allow for more creativity in team choices, especially with Slate 5 soon, which should hopefully fill these holes. Other than that, I believe that the meta will be on a good path after this balance slate.
- I believe that Ho-Oh got the lightest nerf eventhough it should realistically get the biggest one. It is way safer to switch into and the loss of recovery is huge, especially in 1v1 situations. However, Sacred Fire and Toxic will keep it close to Top 3, if not it will remain the single best Pokemon. I think it should've gotten Sacred Fire and Toxic axed instead, so that Regirock can also be a solid answer to it. - Honestly, I think this Pokemon is dead. It is stronger and still has Recover, but Regenerator made it so good and being forced to recover actively, instead of passively, will be a huge blow to it. - Not my favourite idea for it but it works. Relying on Iron Tail to fit Solrock will be annoying and making it less useful defensively really necessitates more momentum to get it in. - While I do believe that Machamp will be the better offensive Fighting-type, I would've discount Mewtwo since it is faster now and can sweep with Trailblaze and Swords Dance. It isn't easily the best offensive Fighting-type anymore. - Nice buff. Definitively more useful but still has solid checks if it misses a move on a certain set, but now won't feel like dead weight. - Probably the best buff for it. Not having to rely on Soul Dew makes it a lot more flexible. Now it can still use Soul Dew but using Leftovers or Choice Scarf is also great. - This should hopefully provide a unique niche alongside Solrock. Since it is so bulky, I can see it using Rest in one of its slots to check Ho-Oh and stay healthy to sweep late game. - Not my favourite buff for it but it will work wonders honestly. RestTalk can also function well as status absorption and as a tank. - The type change is great and it helps check Gardevoir, so you don't have to rely on Ho-Oh. Not much else to say but overall a solid buff. - It's good. Was pretty hard to find a way to buff it without going overboard. It is good and with the nerf to Ho-Oh and Hitmontop, its damage definitively sticks more. This Pokemon will be good. Probably the best wallbreaker we will have. Relying on inaccurate moves, especially HJK, will makes it somewhat of a high risk high reward Pokemon. Knock and Bullet Punch are also great additions for it. - Starmie always had potential but it needed something to really give it that punch to make it worth using and this is definitively the buff for it.Second to last thing. Thanks to the submissions of Orangesodapop Mossy Sandwich Gaboswampert G-Luke BOTW Enjoyer and myself, we have a Viability Ranking for the Hoenn Metagame (yes I'm calling it that)
And last but certaintly not least, Slate 5 will arrive soon. You can discuss potential submissions and get ideas for set submissions. I highly encourage people to create Pokemon that will change the meta in a way that benefits teambuilding rather than the meta itself. I think we can all agree that "countering the meta" isn't a fun formunla for creating Pokemon, especially since we have a lot of these in the meta rn. I think Pokemon that compress more roles and create new offensive or defensive cores is something that will make the meta more diverse and fun to build with. Hopefully, we will see new and unique traits for Pokemon.
That's it for now, cya!
legitimately kinda bad, without recovery and that HUGE attack nerf, banded sets will underperform with 100 attack, and no recovery outside of regen with an only ok 96/95/104. It will definitely see use but it got hit really hard it’s ok, regen does hit it pretty hard, but it’s other set options and access to recovery keep it viable kinda mid without a secondary stab, but it still holds a good speed tier me seeing another 100 speed psychic. It’s aight, but slotting it vs having garde is a bit hard to do. bitter blade is huge for this, as missing out on a 2HKO with flare blitz on venusaur was sad. But now it can just click bitter blade. Oh and ho-oh can’t wall it ig finally good, it can now actually hit the recently nerfed hitmon. Still doesn’t touch fairies but that’s whatev me seeing bulky spiker. It’s way better than it was before, but as solrock stands unnerfed, it still has competition. Infact with absol losing steel solrock is indirectly buffed:ursarang: 90/105/90 with eviolite would make anything good
great gardevoir check and toxic spikes are notoriously really good when there is like 1 poison type using them still a 100 speed tie, but with hitmon and hooh getting a nerf, this allows glalie to punch through solrock easier this probably hits REALLY hard but there still is too many mons that are hostile to it. Move buffs are great however legitimately did not need a buff and should not of received one. This makes it hit harder, and have a cm that pretty much makes it impossible to switch into huge win
Slate 5: Back on Track
In this slate, you can submit and vote for up to seven Pokémon.
Also, as stated in my update post, I highly encourage to sub Pokemon that fill niches and roles that don't exist yet. Hopefully we will have better teambuilding potential with this slate.
Good Luck and Have Fun!
In this slate, you can submit and vote for up to seven Pokémon.
Also, as stated in my update post, I highly encourage to sub Pokemon that fill niches and roles that don't exist yet. Hopefully we will have better teambuilding potential with this slate.
Good Luck and Have Fun!
OU
Ubers
UU
RU
NU
PU
LC
Ubers
UU
RU
NU
PU
LC
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Pokémon: Azelf
Niche: everyone's favorite suicide lead (DPP OU)
Stats: 75 / 125 / 70 / 125 / 70 / 115
Type: Psychic
Abilities: Levitate / Sturdy
New Moves: +Kaboom, Spikes
Removed Moves: none (Based off DPP movepool)
Descriptions: put up your hazards and kill them
Pokémon: Electivire
Niche: Mixed Attacker (DPP OU)
Stats: 75 / 115 / 70 / 115 / 85 / 98
Type: Electric
Abilities: Transformer
When this Pokemon uses a move, its type changes to the type of the move. (Old Protean)
Removed Moves: none (Based off DPP movepool)
Descriptions: the protean (reference to electivire's reputation as a pokemon with good coverage and horrible everything else)
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Pokémon: Yanmega
Niche: [DPP OU] Offensive Lead/Cleaner / Specs Breaker
Stats: 96 HP / 76 Atk / 96 Def / 126 SpA / 66 SpD / 95 Spe | BST: 555 (+10 in hp def spa and spd)
Type:
Bug/Flying
Abilities: Speed Boost | HA: Tinted Lens
New Moves: Aeroblast, Earth Power
Based off of gen 4 movepool
Yanmega was a very potent offensive pokemon in DPP OU which was an unfortunate victim of stealth rocks. With no true wall barring blissey, this behemoth of a special breaker clicked bug buzz and air slash and won the game, simple as that. When gen 5 released, it wasn’t a receiver of hurricane, which is a move it definitely deserved. So I gave it some stats and aeroblast, and now it is extremely potent offensively, while losing to stealth rock still, as it was in DPP OU. Both abilities have their own uses on offensive styles of teams, and overall yanmega provides a great option to both styles.
Pokémon: Heatran
Niche: BWOU the GOAT
Stats: 86/110/101/125/101/77 (-5 hp, def, spa, spd, +20 attack)
Type: Fire/Steel
Abilities: Divine Idol / Flash Fire / Flame Body
New Moves: +Aurora Beam, Magical Leaf
Removed Moves: none (Based off BW movepool)
Effect: Halves damage taken from Ghost or Dark - Type moves
Descriptions: A Pokémon defined by its typing, this unique typing made it one of the most threatening Pokémon in this gen. Gives an exellent check to gardevoir that makes it slot focus blast on it. Since steel originally resisted ghost and dark, this does too. Helps vs gastly, cacturne and absol. It recieves an all stats down for this tho, exept attack because it also very rarely but used flame charge, and flame charge is funny
Pokémon: Lopunny
Niche: Revenge Killer (SM OU)
Stats: 65 / 106 / 94 / 54 / 96 / 130 (+ 30 Attack, +10 defense + 25 speed)
Type: Normal/Fighting
Abilities: Scrappy/Klutz/Limber(HA)
New Moves: Deadly Fury
Removed Moves: none (Based off SM movepool)
BP: 110
PP: 10 (16 Max)
Type: Normal
Category: Physical
Flags: Contact
PP: 10 (16 Max)
Type: Normal
Category: Physical
Flags: Contact
Descriptions: I would (encourages magneton to run timid instead of it being just pure modest , and adds another great tier in 130 base speed. Also to keep true to the SM OU lopunny, it doesn’t have close combat or U-Turn, a set only seen in National Dex Tiers. We also have the return replacement move, Deadly Fury, a SMT reference. It’s good vs our weaker more offensive mons while suffering vs bulky mons like solrock donphan and suprisingly gengar due to ngas
Pokémon: Mamoswine
Niche: SMUU Breaker/Lead
Stats: 120 / 130 / 80 / 115 / 60 / 80 (+10 HP +45 SpA)
Type: Ice/Ground
Abilities: Oblivious / No Guard / Thick Fat
New Moves: Focus Blast
Removed Moves: none (Based off SM movepool)
Descriptions: there have been instances of mamoswine running special sets and it’s awesome. This in particular allows mamoswine to beat very physically bulky waters with freeze dry on its life orb sets, while still being able to click it’s threatening physical stabs. No Guard gives it the ability to click powerful not accurate special moves because why not, icicle crash is an inaccurate physical move that mamo used that benifits from this, now buffed to 100 bp via mountain gale. These buffs would push mamoswine to become a much better Pokémon imo if they were introduced earlier
Pokémon: Drifloon
Niche: DPP LC Unburden Sweeper
Stats: 130/80/60/90/70/103 (+30 hp + 30attack + 26 defense, + 30 spa, + 26 spd, +33 spa)
Type: Ghost/Flying
Abilities: Berry Fast / Aftermath (HA)
Effect: Doubles speed while losing an item, and activates berries at half hp regardless of the berry
New Moves: Aura Sphere
Removed Moves: none (Based off DPP movepool)
Descriptions: the funny Mon, pinch berry + cm is a usable set, along with support aets
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Pokémon: Roserade
Niche: BW UU (Semi-Bulky Spikes Setter)
Stats: 80/60/65/115/115/80 (+20 HP, +10 SpDef, -10 Attack, -10 SpAtk, -10 Speed) (515 BST)
Type: Grass/Steel
Abilities: Natural Cure/Iron Barbs/(Poison Point)
New Moves: Bullet Punch, Flash Cannon, Iron Head, Smart Strike, Steel Beam, Taunt, Thunder Wave
Removed Moves: Poison Jab, Poison Sting, Sleep Powder, Sludge Bomb, Venom Drench, Venoshock
Descriptions: Our previous Spikers were kinda underwhelming, so here's another attempt at one. Grass/Steel is pretty interesting as a SpDef type rn, being able to answer Starmie, Gardevoir and Raikou pretty well. It should also be able to keep Spikes up consistently against Regirock and Donphan. However, it can't do much against Fire and Steel type and, as such, will struggle against Ho-Oh and Hitmontop when it comes to keeping Spikes up, so it will require support on that end.
Pokémon: Rotom-Mow
Niche: DPP OU (Spinblocker)
Stats: 65/65/107/105/107/86 (+15 HP) (535 BST)
Type: Electric/Ghost
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: Toxic
Removed Moves: Nasty Plot
Descriptions: Our ghosts have good defensive utility rn, but lack the bulk to back it up. Rotom-Mow can be a sturdier spinblocker, being able to handle Donphan and Hitmontop with ease by burning them. However, it is rather weak to Knock Off due to its reliance on Leftovers. It can also act as a decent check to our current Fighting types. Its Electric typing is also valuable defensively to let it act as a pivot against pokemon such as Magneton and Raikou. Its Electric STAB threatens common Defoggers and its access to Leaf Storm lets it hits common Volt-Blockers such as Lanturn, Quagsire and Donphan. It also has access to Trick or Toxic, both of which badly cripple Latias, the last hazard removal option. In short, a great pivot for teams that aim to stack hazards.
Pokémon: Infernape
Niche: SM UU (Wallbreaker, Choice Scarf)
Stats: 76/94/71/94/71/108 (-10 Attack, -10 SpAtk) (514 BST)
Type: Fire/Fighting
Abilities: Blaze/(Magic Guard)
New Moves: No
Removed Moves: No
Descriptions: Magic Guard Infernape goes crazy. Residual damage is one of Infernape's greatest weaknesses as it enjoys using Life Orb and Flare Blitz whose recoil just makes it die when added to hazards and other forms of chip. With this big weakness completely invalidated, Infernape is able to use its great typing, good speed and phenomenal movepool to do whatever you need it to do. Most appealing are wallbreaking sets with Life Orb to make use of its great coverage and it can go both physical or special, both with great setup options to choose from. However, with its somewhat low offensive stats and multiple different pokemon to work around its coverage options, it may not break as consistently as you'd expect. You could tweak this set by incorporating utility such as Stealth Rock and Slack Off as it can find opportunities to switch in with resistances to types such as Grass, Ice, Dark and Bug and can also scare out opponents with its STAB combo. It can also use this opportunity to force switches in order to act as a pivot with U-Turn which also makes it a great Choiced Attacker. I think you get it, it is incredibly versatile in its offensive output, though I feel its lowered offensive stats will hold it back a bit.
Pokémon: Drapion
Niche: DPP UU (Swords Dance Wallbreaker, Bulky Swords Dance, SpDef Tank)
Stats: 70/110/110/60/75/95 (+20 Attack) (520 BST)
Type: Poison/Dark
Abilities: Battle Armor/Sniper/(Vessel of Ruin)
New Moves: Ruination, Superpower, Switcheroo, U-Turn
Removed Moves: No
Descriptions: Quite good bulk alongside a useful defensive typing lets Drapion setup Swords Dance easily and wallbreak. However, its low Speed and lack of reliable recovery makes it more of a short term threat that breaks a hole in the opponent's team and gets revenge-killed. It can run more offensive investment or can use its bulk to outright wall mons trying to kill it. However, it also has some versatility besides breaking with Swords Dance. With moves like Knock Off, U-Turn, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Ruination and Whirlwind, it can run bulkier utility sets, though once again, those lack recovery so it act more like a buffer. Speaking of its defensive utility though, Drapion's typing is pretty decent at handling our current offensive Dark types, Gastly, Absol and Cacturne and it can also use its typing to take advantage of defensive pokemon such as Hypno and Venusaur. Besides that, it's just generally bulky, but has to be careful around Ground types and mons that can burn it. Aside from that, it has a pretty good movepool to make use of sets like Choice Band, Choice Scarf or Assault Vest, but those might end up being more niche.
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Pokémon: Garchomp
Niche: SM OU
Stats: 98 / 110 / 105 / 88 / 85 / 114 [600 BST]
Type:
Abilities: Rough Skin / Sand Force
New Moves: Toxic
Removed Moves: Scale Shot, Spikes
Descriptions: a fast rocker that this meta seems to lack. can also use sd as a sweeper/wallbreaker
Pokémon: Wormadam
Niche: SM PU
Stats: 80 / 59 / 75 / 104 / 115 / 36 [469 BST]
Type:
Abilities: Formidable Cover / Overcoat
New Moves: Earth Power
Removed Moves:
Formidable Cover - The user takes 1/2x damage from Fire and Flying moves, but 4/3x damage from Water moves.
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Name: Skuntank
Niche: SM PU (Physically Offensive, Choiced Attacker, Special Attacker)
Stats: 103/93/87/91/71/84 (529)
Type:
Abilities: Stench / Aftermath | Keen Eye (HA)
Move Additions: Blitzkrieg, Grass Pledge, Jealous Wrath, Defog
Move Removals: -
Name: Jealous Wrath
Power: -
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 5/8
Category:
Type:
Effect: 60 power +20 for each of the target's stat boosts.
Priority: 0
Flags: Protect, Mirror
Power: -
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 5/8
Category:
Type:
Effect: 60 power +20 for each of the target's stat boosts.
Priority: 0
Flags: Protect, Mirror
Name: Skunkium Z
Effect: If holder is Skuntank, this item allows it to use a Dark Z-Move.
Can Be Knocked Off: No
Ignored by Klutz: No
Fling Power & Effect: -
Effect: If holder is Skuntank, this item allows it to use a Dark Z-Move.
Can Be Knocked Off: No
Ignored by Klutz: No
Fling Power & Effect: -
Physically Offensive
Skuntank @ Rocky Helmet / Black Sludge / Black Glasses / Skunkium Z
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Blitzkrieg
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Defog / Taunt / Memento
Choice BandSkuntank @ Choice Band
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Blitzkrieg
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Crunch
Choice ScarfSkuntank @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Blitzkrieg
- Defog / Jealous Wrath
- Poison Jab
- Crunch
Special AttackerSkuntank @ Skunkium Z / Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb / Acid Spray
- Fire Blast / Taunt
- Nasty Plot / Defog
Description:
is another Dark-type next to and . All of these are stronger and faster than , however it is way more useful defensively. It might not be as effective as in Pursuit trapping, but it can switch into Pokemon like and and it can actually threaten stuff like and thanks to its typing and higher bulk. is stronger and has great defensive utility, however it struggles with its common weaknesses like Fire, Flying, Fighting and Bug, while only has to worry about Earthquake. It also has better damage potential with its own Z-Move. Said Z-Moves also gives its Taunt and Memento useful secondary effects. Speaking of which, it can use utility moves like Jealous Wrath (Punishment clone), Acid Spray, Defog, Taunt and Toxic Spikes. Rocky Helmet and Aftermath makes it effective against and even if it does not do anything in a game and does not realistically check them. The chip is just that good, especially on something like Machamp, Ho-Oh and Rapidash who use moves with recoil. As a defogger, it struggles against and , but it can ruin them with Toxic or boost with Nasty Plot and ruin them. Overall, it is a jack of all trades, that can achieve one thing if you dedicated your resources into it, but it doesn't do everything perfectly, which hopefully does not make it too strong.
Name: Torterra
Niche: DPP UU (Tank, Choice Band, Set-up Sweeper)
Stats: 105/109/105/75/85/56 (535)
Type:
Abilities: Overgrow
Move Additions: -
Move Removals: -
Shell Smash Sweeper
Torterra @ Life Orb / Mental Herb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Headlong Rush
- Stone Edge
- Shell Smash
TankTorterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Headlong Rush
- Synthesis / Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock / Roar
3 Attacks + SynthesisTorterra @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 32 HP / 236 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Headlong Rush / Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Synthesis
Choice BandTorterra @ Choice Band
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Headlong Rush
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
Specially DefensiveTorterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed / Stealth Rock / Roar
3 Attacks + SubstituteTorterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Headlong Rush
- Stone Edge
- Substitute
Description:
actually gives a defensively oriented Ground resist that can keep Rocks in the face of and actually threaten it, unlike . Its a good fit for offensive teams thanks to its high BP STAB moves and solid attack. It has other utility in Roar and Leech Seed, that help it rack up damage even more. Shell Smash is also a threatening sweeper that can get out of control quickly, but it can be revenge-killed by common Scarfers like and or priority with 's Ice Shard, 's Espeed, 's Sucker Punch and 's Fake Out/Ice Shard. It struggles with and since they are immune to Ground STAB and resists its other STAB. Stone Edge threatens them but it isn't too reliable. Overall, its physical bulk and unique set of resistances make it really useful against Pokemon like , without Aurora Beam, , not locked into Ice Beam lmao, and with the aforementioned .
Name: Lickilicky
Niche: DPP NU (Special Wall, Swords Dance, Choice Band)
Stats: 110/95/95/80/115/50 (545)
Type:
Abilities: Own Tempo | Oblivious (HA)
DPP Movepool:
Move Additions: Kaboom, Recover, Knock Off, Body Press
Move Removals: -
Special WallLickilicky @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam / Body Press
- Recover
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Wish
Swords DanceLickilicky @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Aqua Tail
- Knock Off / Kaboom
- Swords Dance
Choice BandLickilicky @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Aqua Tail / Power Whip / Earthquake
- Knock Off / Power Whip / Earthquake
- Kaboom
Description: I designed
to be a Blissey like Pokemon, where it can tank stuff and do nothing at it, but it can also function as an offensive Pokemon with STAB Kaboom which just tears through any Pokemon that isn't and . With Heal Bell it can also take on and . However, I think that the offensive sets will be the most effective sets, using its bulk against Pokemon like and to fire off moves like Knock Off, Body Slam or the aforementioned Kaboom. While it isn't the most flashy Pokemon and kinda bland, it does one thing and it does it well.
Name: Bronzong
Niche: ORAS RU (Defensive, Attacker, Trick Room Setter)
Stats: 77/99/116/79/116/33 (520)
Type:
Abilities: Levitate / Heatproof | Heavy Metal (HA)
Move Additions: Kaboom
Move Removals: -
Defensive Stealth RockBronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Offensive Trick RoomBronzong @ Power Bracer
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Kaboom
- Trick Room
Description:
has great defensive typing in combination with Levitate. It gives a check to while providing utility in Stealth Rock and it can run offensive sets with Trick Room to be useful against offense. and are big road blocks for it since they hit it hard with Knock, out offense it in Trick Room and can even trap it. It is also struggles to hit Pokemon Ho-Oh and Pokemon that it checks like gardevoir: can all cripple it with Trick Choice Scarf.
Name:
Niche: BW NU (Unburden Attacker, Utility)
Stats: 150/100/64/90/54/80 (538)
Type:
Abilities: Aftermath / Unburden | Flare Boost (HA)
Move Additions: Aura Sphere
Move Removals: -
Name: Power Balloon
Effect: Drifblim's first successful Flying/Ghost-type attack will have 1.5x power. Single use.
Can Be Knocked Off: Yes
Ignored by Klutz: Yes
Fling Power & Effect: -
Effect: Drifblim's first successful Flying/Ghost-type attack will have 1.5x power. Single use.
Can Be Knocked Off: Yes
Ignored by Klutz: Yes
Fling Power & Effect: -
AcroBlim
Drifblim @ Power Balloon
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp / Knock Off
- Destiny Bond
- Memento / Disable
SubCMDrifblim @ Power Balloon
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
Defensive DefogDrifblim @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
- Defog
Description:
has always been an interesting to me and I'm glad that I have the opportunity sub it here. Power Balloon replaces Gems for it and combining this with Unburden it can become a dangerous sweeper. Phyiscal sets have a stupid strong STAB in Acrobatcs but they lack the physical movepool to sweep on that side, but these sets can utilise utility moves like DBond, Memento, Defog or Tailwind to support its team. Special sets have Calm Mind and actual coverage but they need Sub in order to counterplay Sucker Punch from and . They also need Aura Sphere for these two while Thunderbolt is more useful against and Defensive sets with WoW, Defog and Strength can also be useful since it has a good match-up against and can actually tank one hit from and so it can burn them.
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Pokemon: Wormadam-Trash
Niche: BW NU
Stats: 100/70/110/85/115/70 (550)
Type: Bug/Steel
Abilities: Overcoat | Cute Charm
New Moves: +Body Press, Spikes, Defog, Recover
-Quiver Dance
Description: Solid haz control and glue, pairs well with our current bulky water types like Quag and Lanturn, while providing some more hazard control to the meta, which we are currently lacking a bit, its also able to wall Gardevoir (its movepool is based on its Gen 6 one so it doesnt have access to MystFire), and threaten Absol with BPress
Pokemon: Probopass
Niche: XY PU
Stats: 70/45/115/90/120/40 (530)
Type: Steel/Flying
Abilities: Sturdy | Magnet Pole
If the opponent uses a pivoting move while the user is on the field, the opponent gets trapped by one turn, only works once per switch-in
New Moves: +Recover, Rapid Spin, Hurricane, Air Slash
Description: Strong wall, haz control and antipivot, with good 70/120 SpDef and decent 70/115 physdef, it can use its antipivot properties to switch into an U-Turn or PShot from a mon it checks, then Rapid Spin or Stealth Rock freely while the opponent pivots out again, or it itself pivots with Volt Switch, or use one of its utility moves like TWave or Taunt, its Flying type now due to its constant use of Air Balloon through the generations
Pokemon: Skorupi (no eviolite)
Niche: DPP LC
Stats: 95/95/115/70/80/75 (530)
Type: Poison/Bug
Abilities: Battle Armor | Super Luck
New Moves: +U-Turn, Leaf Blade, Triple Arrows, Scorpion Bite
85BP | 100% Acc | 16 PP | Physical | Poison | Gives the user the Focus Energy effect, has a high crit rate
-Swords Dance
Description: Strong crit wallbreaker, gets a very high chance to crit with Super Luck + Periscope + the Focus Energy effect from Scorpion Bite, it also has good 90/110 physbulk and Leech Life to stay healthy, it can hit very hard with its crit Scorpion Bite, Leaf Blade, Triple Arrows or Night Slash of its decent 95 Atk, it can hit Lanturn superefectively with Leaf Blade, but it can hit most of the physbulky mons in the meta for neutral, balanced out by a poor defensive type and slow Spd
Pokemon: Vespiquen
Niche: SM PU
Stats: 80/50/120/80/120/90 (540)
Type: Bug/Flying
Abilities: Bee's Gambit | Unnerve
Opposing Pokemon are unable to use moves with 8 starting PP or less
New Moves:
+Knock Off, Taunt, Encore, Defog
Description: Utility mon with a very interesting ability in Bee's Gambit, representing its use of Pressure to pp stall opponents, which lets it have unique interactions with the metagame, it stops mons like Lanturn, Hitmontop, Cacturne, and Raikou from healing, and also stops any attempts at hitting it with a 4x superefective Stone Edge, it also has a good movepool, with stuff like Knock Off, U-Turn, Taunt, Encore, Toxic, Roost and Heal Order for healing, has access to hazards in Spikes and TSpikes and hazard removal in Defog, and also has decent 80/120/120 defenses, and a decent 90 speed tier for an utility mon, balanced out by its horrible typing, that forces it to run HDB
Pokemon: Burmy (no eviolite)
Niche: DPP LC
Stats: 100/100/130/50/120/40 (550)
Type: Bug
Abilities: Cotton Down | Shed Skin
New Moves: +Knock Off, U-Turn, Recover, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Taunt, Encore, Defog, Spikes
-Quiver Dance
Description: Utility mon, based on its DPP LC joke set, where it uses String Shot, and i translated that to Cotton Down, it has many tools like Knock Off, Toxic, Twave, Taunt, Encore, U-Turn, Recover to heal, Spikes and Defog to hazard control, and a big 100/130/120 spdef, balanced by a bad type
Pokemon: Magmortar
Niche: SM NU
Stats: 80/60/90/125/90/95 (540)
Type: Fire/Electric
Abilities: Flame Body | Vital Spirit
Name: Magmortium Z
Effect: Turns Fire Blast into All-Out Magmortin' (All-Out Pummeling but uses Fire Blast instead of a Fighting Move, still a Fighting type move)
Can Be Knocked Off: No
Ignored By Klutz: Whatever Z-Moves do
Fling Power & Effect: -
Effect: Turns Fire Blast into All-Out Magmortin' (All-Out Pummeling but uses Fire Blast instead of a Fighting Move, still a Fighting type move)
Can Be Knocked Off: No
Ignored By Klutz: Whatever Z-Moves do
Fling Power & Effect: -
New Moves: +Thunder, Volt Switch
Description: Special wallbreaker, has access to a great STAB combo in Fire/Electric, added Electric cus of its use of Tbolt along the generations, as well as its use of Electrium Z in SM, a big 125 SpAtk, pivoting in Volt Switch, enough Spd to use Scarf effectively, and a signature item which lets it use All-Out
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Electivire
Niche: BW RU
Type:
Abilities: Motor Drive, Iron Fist, Neuroforce
Stats: 85 | 110 | 70 | 105 | 70 | 90 [BST= 530]
Movepool Changes: +Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Plasma Fists, Superpower
Description: Infamous for its great coverage and er, being dogshit, Electivire did get some time to shine in Gen 5 when it got an actual physical STAB in Wild Charge. Of course, by today's standards that move isn't great, so now it has Plasma Fists, which not only lacks recoil and is slightly stronger, but its secondary effect synergizes with Motor Drive to punish Normal-type attacks (most notably Rapid Spin) and proceed to outspeed any non-Scarfed mons. Alternatively, Electivire can utilize its coverage with Neuroforce for great damage, or run a pure physical Iron Fist set with boosted Plasma Fists and the Elemental Punches as coverage. Held back quite a lot by a lack of setup options, however.
Togekiss
Niche: SM UU
Type:
Abilities: Hustle, Insomnia, Super Luck
Stats: 90 | 50 | 85 | 110 | 120 | 85 [BST= 540]
Movepool Changes: N/A
Custom Move: Power Gale
80 BP, 5/8 PP, 100 Acc | First use per switch-in causes the target to flinch.
Description: Don't worry folks, no paraflinching shenanigans here. This Togekiss no longer has Serene Grace, but its custom move is still capable of a reliable flinch, which is incredibly useful for securing KO thresholds or doing some extra chip to slower mons before switching; this flinch is quite conditional though, being once per switch and useless on fast mons, and we have a couple of mons such as Magneton, Hypno, and Lanturn that can tank its attacks well and threaten it out. Togekiss differentiates itself from Gardevoir as a Fairy-type special breaker by its better bulk, Access to Roost for instant recovery, and option to go support instead with options like Defog, Heal Bell, and Thunder Wave.
Floatzel
Niche: SV NU
Type:
Abilities: Swift Swim, Water Veil
Stats: 85 | 105 | 65 | 85 | 60 | 120 [BST= 520]
Movepool Changes: N/A
Description: Offensive Water (because the closest we have so far is Starmie), Physical Water and a potential speed ceiling for the meta. We don't have a rain setter at the moment but Water Veil is also a solid option, preventing Floatzel from being shut down by a WoW or letting it more safely switch in on Ho-oh's Sacred Fire. If rain doesn't end up panning out, Band sets are the way to go with Floatzel.
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LOrd Fernado
I COULD BE BANNED!
Pokémon: Manaphy
Niche: SV OU
Stats: 90 / 100 / 80 / 100 / 90 / 110
Type:
Abilities: Hydration
New Moves: N/A
Removed Moves: Stored Power
Descriptions: this will make for a very nice role compressor and offensive threat. it still has a trash ability in hydration and a singular water typing, but now it can function defensively with recover.
Pokémon: Ambipom
Niche: SM NU
Stats: 130 / 110 / 66 / 60 / 66 / 130
Type:
Abilities: Pickup / Skill Link / Technician
New Moves: Swords Dance, Brave Bird, Covet, Drain Punch, Close Combat
Removed Moves: N/A
Descriptions: technician fake out + aerial ace (also flying monkey)
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Yo what’s up it’s me, infamous aerodactyl rule ignorer(yeah mb about that) here with a serious suggestion this time.
Pokémon: Luxray
Niche: SV NU Wallbreaker
Stats: 80 / (-10)110 / (-9)70 / 95 / (-9)70 / (+36)106 (536)
Type: Electric/Ground
Abilities: Intimidate, Volt Absorb, Lion’s Pride(-Rivalry, -Guts)
New Moves: Earth Power, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon
Removed Moves: fire fang and thunder fang
Descriptions:
Luxray has never been good due to its low speed and uninteresting Stat-Spread. I started using it in SV NU as a joke with webs and it actually put in serious work… until I realized that Raichu performed significantly better on part of its speed and actually good moves.
With this submission, I’m hoping to make Luxray a formidable opponent with physical volt-switch, and moves that actually do decent damage off of its alright offensive stats, while being unable to out speed notable members of the metagame like Mewtwo, Absol, Magneton, and the Gastly-duo
Pokémon: Lumineon
Niche: DPP UU Rain Setter/Sweeper(it did both)
Stats: 69/(-9)60/(+4)80/(+21)90/(+4)90/(+4)95
Type: Water
Abilities: Storm Drain / Swift Swim / Drizzle(+Drizzle)
New Moves: Scald, Slack Off
Removed Moves: N/A (DPP moveset)
Descriptions: This format right now lacks a rain setter, and I noticed that in gen 4 UU Lumineon was used as a rain sweeper and setter at the same time. With u-turn this mon can get rain in and use it’s not-so-horrible speed stat to get back out.
Pokémon: Luxray
Niche: SV NU Wallbreaker
Stats: 80 / (-10)110 / (-9)70 / 95 / (-9)70 / (+36)106 (536)
Type: Electric/Ground
Abilities: Intimidate, Volt Absorb, Lion’s Pride(-Rivalry, -Guts)
New Moves: Earth Power, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon
Removed Moves: fire fang and thunder fang
Descriptions:
Luxray has never been good due to its low speed and uninteresting Stat-Spread. I started using it in SV NU as a joke with webs and it actually put in serious work… until I realized that Raichu performed significantly better on part of its speed and actually good moves.
With this submission, I’m hoping to make Luxray a formidable opponent with physical volt-switch, and moves that actually do decent damage off of its alright offensive stats, while being unable to out speed notable members of the metagame like Mewtwo, Absol, Magneton, and the Gastly-duo
Any moves used by this Pokémon will use whichever offensive stat will do better damage.
Pokémon: Lumineon
Niche: DPP UU Rain Setter/Sweeper(it did both)
Stats: 69/(-9)60/(+4)80/(+21)90/(+4)90/(+4)95
Type: Water
Abilities: Storm Drain / Swift Swim / Drizzle(+Drizzle)
New Moves: Scald, Slack Off
Removed Moves: N/A (DPP moveset)
Descriptions: This format right now lacks a rain setter, and I noticed that in gen 4 UU Lumineon was used as a rain sweeper and setter at the same time. With u-turn this mon can get rain in and use it’s not-so-horrible speed stat to get back out.
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- Lower its Speed so that it is below 100 or be 100. I think that the ability is too strong with an above average speed. Atleast allowing Pokemon like Gardevoir and Mewtwo to outoffense it, even without running Scarf, should be good.
- Already expressed this on Discord, but with some thought and a look at the builder, I think it is manageable but I'd lower its Atk by 10 or at the very least 5 points.
Mamoswine is really good on its own in this meta and the think that buffs to it are way to overblown. I would also lower its offenses by a lot. Since there are not enough answers to it, or even one solid answer. Lower its offenses or remove the move additions.
- Bro made better Manaphy and thought it was fine. The reduces bulk is enough of a nerf for the better offensive stats. Quagsire and Lanturn seem like solid answers to it on paper until you run 3 Attacks + Tail Glow. I don't think Recover is necessary, like at all, and the stats are too high, especially for this meta.
- If this wins, I'll eat a fucking broom. Wanted to vent my thoughts.You have 24h to fix them and submissions still last for 24 hours.
Here are the voting rules:
The vetoes have been adjusted, so feel free to vote for them. Voting will last for 72 hours. Good Luck!
Please note that this is the most points you’re able to get through self voting, since can’t vote for your own Pokémon in first place, and if you SV for second place, you can’t put another one of your submissions in third place. Another quick reminder that the position you put these in matters, as first place gets 7 points, second gets 6 points, third gets 5 points, and so on.
The vetoes have been adjusted, so feel free to vote for them. Voting will last for 72 hours. Good Luck!