MLB thread

[HeroMasaki]

Well Boston, although we don't have our most consistent offensive player out for the season, he is still on the DL. And our second most consistent player... and Third.. and a few others. Damn this injury bug.

Still found a way win tonight but boy was THAT a fucking gift holy shit.

 

[Jackal]

With 11 total bases (2 HR, 2B, 1B, the first HR on the first pitch he ever saw) in 5 at bats, JP Arencibia probably just had the greatest major league debut in mlb history.

 

[CaptKirby]

Toronto 17 Tampa Bay 11 lol, hilarious game.

Best in history may be pushing it...I do not know how many players who hit their first pitch ever for a home run had as good of a game, but I certainly know others have done things like that.

 

[HeroMasaki]

I think when you're only a triple away from the cycle and you hit two homeruns, that's probably one of the best debuts of all time.

That being said, wtf are the Rays doing, they better not slow down now, the Yankees have no intention of letting them play catchup.

Also why hasn't anyone mentioned that awesome Japanese player's catch in the outfield the other day? The dude did a 360 and almost jumped over the fence!

 

[pookar]

starlin castro, earlier this year, had a HR his first at bat and had 6 rbis in his major league debut.

debut for a catcher? possibly. probably not all players, though it was impressive.

 

[ultimifier]

2 outs in 8th inning... no hitter coming up????

 

[bwebber]

starlin castro, earlier this year, had a HR his first at bat and had 6 rbis in his major league debut.

debut for a catcher? possibly. probably not all players, though it was impressive.

Fail. RBI is absolute garbage, and you can't constitute the quality of one's game by bringing up an inferior one. Arencibia's game was FAR better than Castro's.

JP Arencibia is the only player since 1920 (b-ref play index doesn't go any further) to ever it two HRs, reach on base four times, and have eleven total bases in his debut, so I'd say it was probably the best in history.

 

[pookar]

wow way to just completely disregard everything, and in quite a rude manner.

castro was only 2-5, but hit a based loaded triple (a triple, not an "excuse me" home run like arencibia's second hr in one of the best home run parks in baseball) Second note. Castro is not a power hitter. He has 5 3b this year v 3 HR. I am not trying to discredit Arencibia, just throwing up another player who, just this year, had an impressive debut. No need to get mad about it. And if you want to pull that statistic, Castro has the record for RBIs in a debut (6), therefore making him the only player to hit a 3rbi triple and a 3r hr in his debut.

 

[tennisace]

That being said, wtf are the Rays doing, they better not slow down now, the Yankees have no intention of letting them play catchup.

<&tennisace> anyway piro
<&tennisace> how bout dem rays
<@Pirotechnix> i have no idea how we're second in the al east
<@Pirotechnix> i really don't
<@Pirotechnix> our bats are lukewarm/cold
<&tennisace> you won't be if the rays keep getting no-hit
<@Pirotechnix> first we had the football game yesterday where we let off 8 homers
<@Pirotechnix> then we get 1 hit and strike out 17 times
<@Pirotechnix> this was a bad weekend in baseball
<@Pirotechnix> everyone on the talk shows post-game were asking why we haven't fired the hitting coach yet
<@Pirotechnix> not that it would change much
<&tennisace> it would change a lot
<&tennisace> you wouldn't have a hitting coach
<@Pirotechnix> -_-

Thoughts on the Rays after Evan Longoria saves them from another no-hitter.

 

[Jackal]

so after we see the greatest debut of all time, the very next day we see the fourth greatest pitching performance of all time.

my heart literally sank into my stomach when Hill couldnt come up with that out, but it still does not take away from that filthy, filthy outing. He was putting people away like they had no business even being in the mlb.

What a great weekend to be a Jays fan, and what an exciting team to watch. We may not be in a playoff race (or are we?) but I can honestly say this is the most fun I have ever had watching a season of any franchise. What with the home runs, the young talent, the 100 game loser expectations, the amazing new GM (wallace trade pending?) and the JOSE BOMBTISTA, it has been one hell of a ride.

 

[Timbob968]

Go White Sox

 

[CaptKirby]

so after we see the greatest debut of all time, the very next day we see the fourth greatest pitching performance of all time.

my heart literally sank into my stomach when Hill couldnt come up with that out, but it still does not take away from that filthy, filthy outing. He was putting people away like they had no business even being in the mlb.

What a great weekend to be a Jays fan, and what an exciting team to watch. We may not be in a playoff race (or are we?) but I can honestly say this is the most fun I have ever had watching a season of any franchise. What with the home runs, the young talent, the 100 game loser expectations, the amazing new GM (wallace trade pending?) and the JOSE BOMBTISTA, it has been one hell of a ride.

No. Just no. I know you are obsessed with hyping up your team, but equating strikeouts as "the single indicator of dominant pitching" or something is fucking ridiculous. That was not the fourth best pitching performance ever, and it is not even close. Not that we could ever definitively define something like that, a well controlled grounder game can easily be so much better than this.

 

[Jackal]

No. Just no. I know you are obsessed with hyping up your team, but equating strikeouts as "the single indicator of dominant pitching" or something is fucking ridiculous. That was not the fourth best pitching performance ever, and it is not even close. Not that we could ever definitively define something like that, a well controlled grounder game can easily be so much better than this.

im not sure when I did any of that, I am just pointing out the fact that this was among one of the great performances of all time according to the Game Score formula, which obviously has more than one indicator! Sure, for reasons including pitch count and consistency, a pitcher who induces ground balls at an excellent rate is probably better/more efficient than a K pitcher, but when you are talking about a pitcher dominating, which is what I am talking about, strikeouts are a great place to look.

 

[CaptKirby]

You said fourth greatest pitching performance ever, then quickly hedged, but you still said your team had the "fourth greatest performance in something" just because it suited your interests; you could have said "an incredibly great pitching performance" et cetera. It was not even the fourth greatest by your formula, but was tied with five other performances, so "4-9". Really it is just a formula which makes strikeout heavy games the highest rated, so it does not provide any sort of proof.

 

[HeroMasaki]

You said fourth greatest pitching performance ever, then quickly hedged, but you still said your team had the "fourth greatest performance in something" just because it suited your interests; you could have said "an incredibly great pitching performance" et cetera. It was not even the fourth greatest by your formula, but was tied with five other performances, so "4-9". Really it is just a formula which makes strikeout heavy games the highest rated, so it does not provide any sort of proof.

According to Bill James' metric "Game Score," which is a one-number summary of how good a pitcher's single-game performance is, Brandon Morrow's 17-strikeout, 2-walk, one-hitter got a score of 100. That is tied for the 4th-best single-game pitching performance since 1920. It was the highest by any pitcher in a single game since Randy Johnson scored 100 in his perfect game back in 2004.

He's not making this up lol

 

[CaptKirby]

"so after we see the greatest debut of all time, the very next day we see the fourth greatest pitching performance of all time."

I made entire posts bitching about something specific he said, you could have looked at his post to verify something that the article was irrelevant to (apparently you clicked his article from the very text I just cited, so...)

As to what I think you think your point is, he is not making up that it is tied (with several others) for the fourth best "game score", something which only has 4 real criteria. Of its criteria, I say none can truly verify dominance, not even runs, but at least runs are the best indication (I would say walks is the next best, but intentional walks are also a good idea sometime, so whatever). Any complete game shutout is similarly as dominant as this game was, regardless of how many strikeouts were thrown.

 

[Navy]

Brandon Morrow's not hit-bid through out the game was SO FUCKING FUN TO WATCH!

That kid has some great stuff, even after he had season ending surgery last season. This kid has proven he can be a 15 game winner with an actual good team. (Not saying Toronto is a bad team but yeah). He throws a Gas fastball around 95-96mph. His Curveball reminds me a lot of Stephen Strasburg's curveball, it has such a power break into it. Just great pitching from Morrow. and lol Tampa-Bay has to be going through the Makiri curse running into these no-hitters and on a 5game loosing streak even with a great pitching staff and such an underrated batting-lineup.

 

[J-man]

It's teams like the Tigers that makes me wonder why i love my detroit teams... well, 9-4 victory is pretty good...

 

[CaptKirby]

How do the Rays have an underrated batting group? As another user pointed out (Pyrotechnix/whoever posted what Pyrotechnix said?), the Rays have a freaking terrible batting lineup this year (26th batting average), but are phenomenal at scoring once on base (third in runs after the Yankees/Red Sox, fucking unbelievable!).

 

[Jackal]

I certainly did spin the story in my favour, but I am not sure if that takes away from the feat itself. In terms of just making batters look silly, you cannot ask for too much more than what Morrow did. Part of it was sheer excitement, but part of it was the fact that I just watched a pitcher make the Tampa Bay lineup look like a high school team.

 

[bwebber]

wow way to just completely disregard everything, and in quite a rude manner.

castro was only 2-5, but hit a based loaded triple (a triple, not an "excuse me" home run like arencibia's second hr in one of the best home run parks in baseball) Second note. Castro is not a power hitter. He has 5 3b this year v 3 HR. I am not trying to discredit Arencibia, just throwing up another player who, just this year, had an impressive debut. No need to get mad about it. And if you want to pull that statistic, Castro has the record for RBIs in a debut (6), therefore making him the only player to hit a 3rbi triple and a 3r hr in his debut.

I'm not even close to being angry. I don't know what gave you that impression.

RBI is a useless individual stat, and home runs are more valuable than triples every single time. It doesn't really matter how or where he did it. Impressive debut, sure, but nothing close to Arencibia's.

Yeah Castro's not a power hitter, but I don't really know why that matters at all. Home runs are the greatest single act you can accomplish offensively which is why power hitters are generally more valuable than Ichiro types.

 

[aamto]

[15:54:44] <%CaptKirby> any 9 inning shutout
[15:54:49] <%CaptKirby> is essentially the same as any other

I guess this mean's Livan Hernandez's 4 hit, 2 walk, 3 strikeout game in April was just as good as Kerry Wood's 1 hit, 20 strikeout game in 1998...

[15:49:10] <%CaptKirby> he is no 9 strikeouts per 9 innings pitcher
[15:49:17] <%CaptKirby> that is a fluke
[15:49:19] <%CaptKirby> the definition of a fluke

Morrow is leading the league in K/9 (10.67). Both his FIP and xFIP are significantly lower than his ERA (4.49 era vs 3.26 FIP, 3.69 xFIP). For those that don't know, FIP and xFIP are "ERA predictors" and represent how well a pitcher has truly pitched, independent of his fielders, which means Morrow has been a hell of a pitcher for the whole of the year. Not exactly a "fluke" type game.

More on the actual game: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/brandon-morrows-gem/, http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/more-on-morrow/

In reality, calling this a “bid” at a no hitter does Morrow no respect and the performance on justice. For all intent and purposes, Morrow threw as well as any pitcher who did record a no hitter or perfect game this season. He completed the game, struck out 17 Rays, and walked only two. Nine of the 12 balls in play were of the fly ball variety, including a few warning track flyouts, but the Rays never seriously threatened until the ninth inning.

I used Baseball-Reference’s Play Index with the following query:

- Individual games spanning the 1920-2010 seasons as a starting pitcher
- Requiring at least 17 strikeouts, fewer than three walks, and at least one inning pitched
The reason for including fewer than three walks is multilayered. It trims the list of candidates down while increasing the difficulty level of the performance, thus giving us the cream of the crop. The above mandates returned 35 individual games. Quite a few being repeats of the true greats. One thing I did not adjust that I’ll disclaim here is how I did not control for age. Randy Johnson’s 20 strikeout game as a 37 year old is included just as Kerry Wood’s game as a 20 year old.

He dominated the game in every possible way in a fashion done only 35 times in history since 1920. How's that for backing myself up, CaptKirby? Please, stop before you further embarrass yourself.

 

[Mr.E]

sabermetrics noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[CaptKirby]

lol, I am not embarrassing myself by "daring" to say things just because others might find them absurd...I say "daring" since the extreme reaction of people like you and whidingle or whatever his name was is so belligerent that apparently it must be brave of me to dare to say something unusual. Just because you disagree with the formulation does not make it illogical - Livian Hernandezes performance might have been as impressive if he was hit basically all by luck, I do not know, I was not watching. I am 100% confident this was not one of the 35 best "pitching performances" of all time, sorry but it was against a .250 hitting team. If he did it against any team that could hit, then I would still support "essentially", but acknowledge that in this case it is probably one of the ones that is not essentially the same, but was in fact probably superior.

(Kickbanning me relentlessly in a channel over this argument is a lot is more embarrassing than anything I have done, you apparently completely lack perspective)

 

[makiri]

Great timing, Mariners. You promise fans "a fun-filled night of Japanese culture," and hours before first pitch you ax Don Wakamatsu, the majors' first Japanese-American manager.