Suspect Mix and Mega Suspect #6 : Jolteon

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Redflix

Redflix

Forgiven and Hanged
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Thanks to the redistribution of Weather Ball in DLC1, Jolteon, amongst several others, was now able to abuse Red Orb to the fullest. With its remarkably potent offensive typing in Electric/Fire, it has emerged as one of the most challenging Pokémon to counter in the current metagame. Its capacity to break through walls is further boosted by its access to Volt Switch, enabling it to pivot effectively against its checks and maintain momentum. Consequently, Jolteon exerts significant pressure both in gameplay and team building. Moreover, Jolteon's base speed stat of 130 remains unaffected by Red Orb's lack of speed stat boost, allowing it to comfortably outpace prominent Ground-types like Arceus-Ground and Metagrossite Tusk. With the support of Stealth Rock, it can efficiently 2HKO major specially defensive walls and resists, including Slowking-Galar and Skeledirge.

That being said, not everything is sunshine and rainbows for the Jolteon user. Having virtually no defensive presence, it is often at the losing side of 1v1s if it cannot OHKO opposing threats. This vulnerability is evident when facing various Arceus Forms (Fairy/Normal) or Garganacl. Presence of Red orb Hippowdon or Ursaluna in the tier, which not only resist Weather Ball but also stops it from gaining momentum does make dealing with Jolteon a bit easier. Clodsire and Altarianite Dragonite also act as good checks, with the former being able to survive a 2HKO even after rocks are up and the latter resisting both STABs. Gastrodon and Roaring Moon, two underutilized sets also serve as good options in the builder for a similar reason.

Are all the above reasons justifiable enough to let Jolteon stay in the meta? Or the pressure it exerts in the builder and its in-game interactions are too much to ask in a healthy meta? The suspect aims to find a solution to this question.


Requirements:

Requirements can be achieved by getting 75 GXE in 25 games on the Mix and Mega ladder. In order to participate in the suspect, you must create a fresh alt (creation date no earlier than 22 October 2023) with the prefix MnMJO at the start of the name. When you have obtained the reqs, make sure to post proof of your alt's record (generally a screenshot) in this thread, and if you wish to do so, you can also share your thoughts on the test here.

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have posted your reqs correctly. You must post on this thread in order to be tagged in the voting thread, however you do not need to include your vote on this thread.

A super-majority of 60% ban votes is required to restrict Jolteon from holding stones in Mix and Mega.

TL;DR:
  • Jolteon is permitted on the suspect Ladder
  • The GXE requirement is 75 and the minimum game count is 25
  • You must ladder on a newly-created alt using the prefix MnMJO
  • You must post your reqs in this thread, though the voting process will happen in a separate thread. You are not required to state your vote in this thread.
  • The suspect test will conclude at 11:59pm GMT -4 (EDT) on Saturday, 4th November.
  • A ban vote of 60% is required to restrict Jolteon from Mix and Mega.
 
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Giagantic

Giagantic

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Will probably ban just due to how restrictive Jolteon can be, though there are answers, so depending on peoples arugments here I could flip flop to DNB. Consider me an undecided vote though.

Teams here: :Gastrodon: :Slowking-Galar: :Barraskewda: :Ceruledge: :Arceus-Poison: :Corviknight:

Built this after some trial error on ladder prior to this alt since I had no new teams, worked out fairly well as a whole, lost one to QT due to me not paying attention and sacking something when I shouldn't have.

I blame Hiusi guy and DosDogs for not saying anything despite being in chat for the sus reqs photo.

Didn't catch it but Gimmickyasitgets did say something, they cool unlike the others :)!
 
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Clas

Clas

my main tier is yes
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I'll make an RMT on the team I used, and I'll link it here where I've underlined (EDIT i have no time, here's the team. i did hit #1 tho by going 17-1 which is cool, and the only loss was a lead misplay in a bad mu). Destroys all of ladder and is incredibly consistent, had maybe 1 close call only. Shoutout OMWC UKCA discord for helping give me ideas for it.

As for Jolteon, it's got the same issues as other Red Orb Weather Ball users in that you can answer them but they're so incredibly restrictive that its not okay. 130 Speed is also actually amazing currently with most Pokemon not even hitting 110 (my used team has one Pokemon above 110, so that helps give you an idea), and Electric + Fire coverage is actually really potent currently with the only resists being Venusaurite Ground-types, Red Orb Hippowdon (not good specially defensively), Gastrodon, and Electric-resistant Dragon-types like Roaring Moon and Altarianite Dragonite. By virtue of its Fire-type, Jolteon is also incredibly awkward to revenge kill to the point where it's just easier to have an otherwise okay Pokemon in Gastrodon handle it, but at least that also handles Landorus and Enamorus.

With that mention of Landorus and Enamorus I'd like to also bring up the other reason why Jolteon is so incredibly strong - you also have to prepare for these two absolute nukes. Red Orb Enamorus has been making waves recently, and for good reason (notably beating Redflix in three turns because he didn't have a designated counter), while Red Orb Landorus capitalizes on most other Red Orb answers with U-turn and Nasty Plot with PDon-like STABs. This strain on the builder is beyond laughable, and makes it really awkward to build anything without having to either use middling Pokemon like Sablenite Gastrodon or just attempt to outplay your opponent while using Pokemon like Sablenite Corviknight as to be able to potentially handle something like Lucarionite Walking Wake or Lopunnite Barraskewda. All of this combined makes Jolteon incredibly awkward to both build and play around, and so I shall be voting ban.
 
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Slither Wing

Slither Wing

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Finally got reqs after some horrible runs, mostly because I didn't have a consistent team
https://pokepast.es/1f6024bc0c682c06 (Team i used, prolly shit but it works decent)

From my experience here, Jolteon doesn't seem to be too big of a problem if we compare it to other Weather Ball users. It's hard to switch into yes, but so are most mons in MnM. However, there aren't really any clear counters towards Weather ball, which is what pushes this, and Enamorus over the edge for me because they force you to use suboptimal shit mons like Gastrodon / Venusaurite Clodsire, and even then the opponent can simply switch and pressure you otherwise since you're using 5 mons. Overall, it's way to restricitve on the builder unless you're building HO so i will be voting Ban

(PS ban Enamorus while we're at it holy shit)
 

RADIOACM

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I only saw one Jolteon in all my games, and it wasn't the one I found most problematic.
For me, there are so many strong Pokémon in the meta with extreme speed, that it's easy to kill. This limits the immediate use of mega to keep extreme speed neutral on Jolteon and diversifies strategies. You can also use faster pokemons like Iron Valiant (mega-Aerodactyl). Dragonite is a very good counter, as are the other Pokémon mentioned above. Other Pokemon also benefit from the red orb, such as Great Tusk and Shaymin Sky.
 
Clas

Clas

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RADIOACM said:
I only saw one Jolteon in all my games, and it wasn't the one I found most problematic.
For me, there are so many strong Pokémon in the meta with extreme speed, that it's easy to kill.
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Can I ask what atespeed you were seeing? Because none match up into it except Dragonite, which has issues of its own, is prone to other anti-atespeed conterplay, and gets voltturned down. While its definitely the best answer into SkewdaJolt, its still taking too much chip from hazards, Flip Turn, Volt Switch, Weather Ball, and whatever else that it's just not effective enough. Its to the point where I have seen Sceptilite Blissey be used by an OMWC teammate of mine as to not give it free turns into Lopunnite Barraskewda.
RADIOACM said:
This limits the immediate use of mega to keep extreme speed neutral on Jolteon and diversifies strategies. You can also use faster pokemons like Iron Valiant (mega-Aerodactyl). Dragonite is a very good counter, as are the other Pokémon mentioned above. Other Pokemon also benefit from the red orb, such as Great Tusk and Shaymin Sky.
Click to expand...
Listed why Dragonite isn't a good counter before, but not only is IVal just not a counter (it's a check) but its also just not that good right now? It wants Metagrossite to outspeed Adamant Barraskewda, but that can't break through Corviknight without a trade or prior chip (-1 def BBird OHKOes in return) and is just worse off into the meta right now. As for faster Pokemon, you're quite limited thanks to the nature of SkewdaJolt. You can try and use your own, but that might fail. You can try Diancite Pokemon, but they're generally bad and/or still are slower than Barraskewda. You can try to use -atespeed, but its resisted and you could just be 2HKOed by Weather Ball because its stupidly broken offensively and requires either a very bulky Clodsire, shitmon Gastrodon, the equally terrible Venusaurite Hippowdon/Palossand, or the even worse Sceptilite, but they're still pretty iffy because they're just bad always or bad in the current meta. The fact that you're forced right now to run hard answers to not lose like this, this, and this while trying to not lose like this to others like Enamorus is the issue. (If you're wondering where these replays are from, they're from MnM Seasonal rounds 8-11, as 12 [grand finals] didn't really see Jolteon do much due to overprep for it or Enamorus was brought instead)
RADIOACM said:
Other Pokemon also benefit from the red orb, such as Great Tusk and Shaymin Sky.
Click to expand...
Skymin is pretty good with RO? But I think you're better off rn with Lucarionite as a wallbreaker rather than a Growth cleaner as Red Orb Weather Ball is frankly insane. As for Great Tusk, please don't when there is Hippowdon defensively and Ursaluna offensively, both of which do much better than it could ever. If you want others that I think are really problematic, there's Thundurus (both), Landorus-I, and Enamorous-I, with the latter being by far the most oppressive but this is compounded by the ease-of-use with Jolteon.

ill maybe do more later but tired rn lol
 
Maybca☆〜ゝ。∂

Maybca☆〜ゝ。∂

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Clas said:
Can I ask what atespeed you were seeing? Because none match up into it except Dragonite, which has issues of its own, is prone to other anti-atespeed conterplay, and gets voltturned down. While its definitely the best answer into SkewdaJolt, its still taking too much chip from hazards, Flip Turn, Volt Switch, Weather Ball, and whatever else that it's just not effective enough. Its to the point where I have seen Sceptilite Blissey be used by an OMWC teammate of mine as to not give it free turns into Lopunnite Barraskewda.

Listed why Dragonite isn't a good counter before, but not only is IVal just not a counter (it's a check) but its also just not that good right now? It wants Metagrossite to outspeed Adamant Barraskewda, but that can't break through Corviknight without a trade or prior chip (-1 def BBird OHKOes in return) and is just worse off into the meta right now. As for faster Pokemon, you're quite limited thanks to the nature of SkewdaJolt. You can try and use your own, but that might fail. You can try Diancite Pokemon, but they're generally bad and/or still are slower than Barraskewda. You can try to use -atespeed, but its resisted and you could just be 2HKOed by Weather Ball because its stupidly broken offensively and requires either a very bulky Clodsire, shitmon Gastrodon, the equally terrible Venusaurite Hippowdon/Palossand, or the even worse Sceptilite, but they're still pretty iffy because they're just bad always or bad in the current meta. The fact that you're forced right now to run hard answers to not lose like this, this, and this while trying to not lose like this to others like Enamorus is the issue. (If you're wondering where these replays are from, they're from MnM Seasonal rounds 8-11, as 12 [grand finals] didn't really see Jolteon do much due to overprep for it or Enamorus was brought instead)

Skymin is pretty good with RO? But I think you're better off rn with Lucarionite as a wallbreaker rather than a Growth cleaner as Red Orb Weather Ball is frankly insane. As for Great Tusk, please don't when there is Hippowdon defensively and Ursaluna offensively, both of which do much better than it could ever. If you want others that I think are really problematic, there's Thundurus (both), Landorus-I, and Enamorous-I, with the latter being by far the most oppressive but this is compounded by the ease-of-use with Jolteon.

ill maybe do more later but tired rn lol
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Incredible post totally agree. ( that was sarcastic because I want dnb jolteon)
My opinion
I will explain my opinion.
First of all let's talk about red orb, red orb replaces the second type of its user yes gives him one, the fact that it gives the fire type + you can't be hit by water is already a very good one asset, then, let's start at the beginning, the first red orb appeared, it's from icemaster who plays zapdos red orb at the seasonal, this same zapdos which quickly becomes unmanageable due to its very good double stab coupled with weather ball and being able to rotate , there we can already see counters like closdire hippo, and other… , it is that after or qt and axzel brings back jolteons which are unmanageable at the beginning, even if like zapdos with time we see counters that even you mention: dragonite, roaring moon, arceus ground (soft check with very bulky spread in spd), gastrodon, garganal, hippo, closdire, while at enamorus it is all the opposite everything that is mentioned here is destroyed by enamorus, grass knot for gastrodon and garganal , and moonblast + weather ball hits everyone behind, in the last move we hesitate between earth power or psychic, but earth power seems much better in general and there as a counter, I see ceruledge coming at the right time by playing 50/50 is that whether I mega or not am I coming on weather ball or not etc... I saw you play toxapex against me redflix I think you imagine that against but on toxapex you must surely play it a lot of def, otherwise that seems a little useless to me still there enam but 30-40% damage to your toxapex, and if you want to heal you automatically lose regnerator, and this generation only eight pp of healing which is not much, and in the case where you come on an earth power I don't think that even after mega you hold the weather ball which follows, so well you will be forced to sack a pokemon, and even if your opponent plays psychic you can do absolutely nothing, and basically I I thought about enamorus for my prep against you redflix but I can't build around it despite ten different teams, I was very disappointed that my first call was the right one, that's why I think that enamorus is much stronger than jolteon knowing only 135 spa at enam and 115 at jolteon
(it was a response on the discord om, that's why I address redflix when I talk about our game)
 
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