XY OU Mirror Mola - semi-stall (peaked #6)

[branflakes]

Mirror Mola (Obsolete due to Aegislash ban)

Hi Smogon. I present to you my third RMT and first of Gen VI. With the new generation bringing a few cookie-cutter hyper offensive, volt-turn and full stall teams, I have been working on teams that bring out the potential in certain Pokemon or sets that are less often seen for the sake of keeping things fun and interesting. Like previously, I got carried away and dug through the depths of NU to find an answer to some of the common powerful threats in OU.

Current: 37-1 on Dakkeh (4/4/14)
#6 - 1959 Peak (3/9/14):

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Between a couple accounts I've had a good amount of success with this team. So here it is:

Preview

This team was pieced together in a rough attempt to check or counter most common threats in the tier, which is much more feasible now that Mega Lucario and Genesect were recently banned. Based on experience at this point, the most difficult-to-check pokemon in the tier is Charizard. Both mega evolutions of Charizard are insanely powerful and especially dangerous to deal with when the mega form is unknown, considering that they each have different resistances and offensive coverage. I used a Sap Sipper Perish trapping Azumarill for a while as a (very successful) counter to both forms before realizing that the combination of Sap Sipper and Whirlpool is illegal. I ended up replacing Azumarill with specially defensive Alomomola to fulfill the same role in a completely different way. Credit to Rykard for coming up with the idea behind this set as a Charizard Y surprise-killer, which was originally Assault Vest Alomomola. It turns out Alomomola doesn't actually need that Assault Vest to have good special bulk.

The team also features a couple of effective mixed cores such as Manectric/Breloom and Clefable/Aegislash that can really make quick work of an opponent with the combination of offensive and stall pressure. By nature of this team's playstyle (semi-stall), it does not look particularly threatening nor appealing at first glance. It neither has the fast-paced offensive pressure of DeoSharp or BirdSpam teams, nor does it have the sheer bulkyness of the infamous Skarm/Chansey/Venusaur cores on full stall teams. Instead, this team features a unique stall-leaning balance that works well in dismantling almost any playstyle due to its flexibility at performing well in stall, offensive and balanced play.

Note: This team is not in any way based around Mirror Coat Alomomola. Alomomola is simply another team member that has great defensive synergy and a much-needed niche in checking a wide range of special, physical and mixed attackers.


Team Building Process

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The team was originally based on a weakness that every team of mine had previously: Charizard. Charizard shares a distinct quality with Mega Lucario, in that it can run both physical and special attacking sets extremely well. The only difference is that each set corresponds to a different Mega Evolution, each with different stab moves and sets that are incredibly difficult to prepare for before the Mega Stone is revealed. I came up with a Perish Trapping defensive Azumarill set consisting of Whirlpool, Perish Song, Encore and Protect with Sap Sipper to ensure that I can take on Charizard regardless of its form by taking advantage of Azumarill's fire resistance and grass/dragon immunities.

Aegislash was added next to cover some of Azumarill's weaknesses and vice versa. I also just wanted to experiment further with a Sub/2-attack set for Aegislash that has seemed to work very since the very beginning of XY.

At this point, the team needed some fast offensive presence. Scarf Diggersby seemed like a decent option after the Genesect ban, and I've been wanting to try it out. Don't worry, no cheek pouches lol

CM Clefable and Toxic Orb Breloom were added to give the team a way to defensively deal with common threats such as Rotom-W, Conkeldurr and dragon types, while also allowing this team to exert a lot of offensive pressure by using the opponent's fear of setup Clefable or Spore Breloom against them. Clefable originally had Flamethrower, but was eventually changed to HP Ground to deal with a common switch-in to Clefable: Heatran. Clefable was a particularly good choice for this team, because its two weaknesses are handled easily by Aegislash, while Aegislash's weakness to Knock Off is handled by both Breloom and Clefable.

Solrock was a strange choice. Its purpose was to counter Mega Pinsir and function as a check to new and popular Bird Offense strategy. It was max defensive with WoW, Rock Slide, Morning Sun and Stealth Rock. At this point my team had a significant weakness to Bisharp, and Solrock wasn't able to do much else outside of its niche bird-counter role.

I ended up replacing it with defensive Mega Aerodactyl which served the same purpose but had more offensive presence, greater speed and higher defenses. After a little while, however, I began to realize that defensive Rock types were not the way to go.

I swapped Mega Aerodactyl for defensive Skarmory as a more logical answer to the same flying threats, with the exception of Talonflame's Flare Blitz. Skarmory also does a great job covering the remaining weaknesses of the team at this point. Considering that I freed the Mega slot by replacing Mega Aerodactyl, I thought about using Mega Manectric to fulfill the same role as Diggersby more efficiently. Scarf Diggersby was difficult to use, because it was usually punished for locking itself into any of its moves other than U-Turn. Manectric obviously doesn't have this problem, and it forms a solid core with Breloom and Skarmory both offensively and defensively.

Perish Trapping Azumarill turned out to be illegal when used in conjunction with Sap Sipper, which pretty much defeated the purpose of running this set considering it no longer countered Zard Y. After a short while of using Thick Fat Azumarill and getting disappointing results, I stumbled upon another answer to my Charizard problems: Mirror Coat Alomomola. Spdef Alomomola also patched up my team's glaring weaknesses to mixed Aegislash and Landorus-I. It is also a reliable switch-in for handling the team's fire and water weaknesses.

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The Team

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Manectric

@ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
Alternative Options: Overheat over Flamethrower

It's easy to see why Mega Manectric doesn't get much usage despite being a very solid special attacker that rivals Thundurus-I, because there are currently more powerful and centralizing mega evolutions in OU. I'm aware that Thundurus-I boasts more variety in its sets, but Manectric has indisputably better special attack and speed (assuming evolved), a different ability and arguably more reliable special coverage. Most importantly, it works better on my team by not being as weak to stealth rocks and being able to revenge kill efficiently and grab momentum. LO Thundurus-I just wears itself down too easily, and I don't want to run Defog Skarm to support it. Explanations aside, this is just a standard Mega Manectric set that gives the team some offensive presence and momentum in a pinch. And it has 0 Happiness because it doesn't like its new haircut. i dont even remember giving it 0 Happiness lol

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off*
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
Alternative Options: Hidden Power Ground, Flamethrower, Fireblast or Heal Bell in place of Knock Off

Defensive CM Clefable often runs Flamethrower or Fireblast for coverage, which leaves it completely vulnerable to one of its few counters, Heatran. Considering that specially defensive Heatran sets are a problem for my team, Clefable with HP Ground can easily wear it down while recovering damage from Lava Plumes all day. Unfortunately HP Ground deals an underwhelming 35-40% to specially defensive Heatran when unboosted, but this is more than enough to win the 1v1 match-up, assuming I don't ever encounter a SDef Heatran with Flash Cannon or something. This particular set runs into issues with Scizor, which is better handled by other members of my team regardless. As of now, Heatran seems more common than Scizor and therefore HP Ground seems like a good choice along with Moonblast.

*Knock Off makes Spdef Heatran (aka the most common Heatran) susceptible to being worn down easily. It also allows Clefable to completely break certain stall cores on its own. Replacing HP Ground, Knock Off is here to stay.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spd
- Shadow Ball
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- King's Shield
Alternative Options: Shadow Sneak or Sacred Sword over Substitute, Flash Cannon or Toxic over Iron Head

Sub Aegislash is very effective in practice, but it probably needs the most explanation. Substitute allows it to set up for free turns against certain defensive Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Chansey/Blissey as well as some offensive threats such as certain Latios/Latias, opposing Aegislash, Mega Mawile, choice-locked threats and the multitude of Pokemon that have trouble damaging Aegislash altogether. The cost of running Substitute is having to replace Shadow Sneak, which is fairly weak without investment and not completely necessary for my team. I highly recommend trying Substitute on Aegislash, because it works wonders in practice. Iron Head was chosen over Flash Cannon and Sacred Sword due to its ability to always deal over 50% to CM Clefable, which would otherwise be a huge threat to my team. 1 Spd IV gives me a safer match-up against opposing min-speed Aegislash, allowing me to essentially grab a free KO if I predict correctly.

At first glance, this seems like a questionable set and a waste of a moveslot. Substitute used in conjunction with King's Shield allows Aegislash to maximize leftovers recovery (or at least neutralize the HP cost of using Sub), and its primary two functions are to ease prediction while putting tremendous pressure on an opponent. Aegislash's typing gives it plenty of opportunities to set up a Substitute, whether or not the outcome is the same as simply going for an attacking move. In other words, using Substitute has almost zero risk with the potential for high reward.
Example: Aegislash is up against a Scarf Latios/Garchomp locked into Draco/Psyshock/Outrage. The opposing team has a Landorus-T and a Tyranitar, both of which are capable of switching into Aegislash. Aegislash sets up a Substitute while the opponent switches into either Tyranitar or Landorus-T, forcing the opponent to break the sub while Aegislash uses Iron Head or Shadow Ball respectively without the need for prediction.

Some more examples of practical use:
Replay #1 shows Aegislash setting up a free Substitute against Banded Dragonite locked into ESpeed, allowing it to later defeat Dragonite and Talonflame without taking damage from banded EQ. (see turn 27 on)
Replay #4 shows a +2 Adamant Dragonite locked into Outrage, reduced to +0 by King's Shield. Fire Punch deals near-max damage to Aegislash but leaves enough HP for a Substitute, resulting in a victory. (see turn 48 on)

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
- Wish
- Protect
Alternative Options: Knock Off or Scald over Toxic

Alomomola is my team's special "wall" and a decent check to both Mega Charizard X and Y. Mirror coat is an unexpected move that allows Alomomola to grab KOs against special attackers such as Aegislash, Zard Y, Venusaur, Rotom-W, Landorus-I, Thundurus-I, Latios/Latias, Greninja. Rotom-W and volt switchers in particular will often go for Volt Switch assuming Mega Manectric has evolved, which will result in KOing whatever switches in (unless bisharp or mandibuzz). Toxic is necessary for dealing with Charizard X, which will otherwise sweep my team unhindered. I would love to have Knock Off on this set to avoid getting walled by Steel types, but I doubt its worth replacing any moves on this current set. Other than KOing special attackers, Alomomola is the only member of my team with enough special bulk to take on strong threats such as Landorus-I and Aegislash.

With recovery from Leftovers and Protect, Alomomola can switch into Zard Y's Fireblast and KO with Mirror Coat after surviving the following Solar Beam.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 348-410 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Of course, I do realize that people might be more aware of Alomomola shenanigans because of this RMT, but it will still be viable and I still have Toxic and Mega Manectric to take down Zard Y in a worst-case scenario.

Note: Threatening to pass a wish to a weakened teammate is an excellent way to lure special attacks and KO with Mirror Coat. Otherwise, it's often risky to reveal Mirror Coat and have it fail. If you wish to try out this set, Knock Off may be a good option in place of Toxic depending on how the rest of your team functions.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Spd / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
Alternative Options: Defog over Stealth Rock or Brave Bird

Skarmory's role is nothing new. It sets up rocks, phazes physical sweepers and walls a good portion of the metagame. Defog isn't completely necessary, considering my team doesn't usually have any problems with hazards and the current four moves are all essential. It has great defensive synergy with the rest of my team, being immune to the poison and ground weaknesses of Clefable, Manectric, Breloom and Aegislash. Additionally, Alomomola, Aegislash, Manectric and Breloom can usually switch into any fire or electric attacks aimed at Skarmory.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Substitute
Alternative Options: Protect over Substitute, Focus Punch over Drain Punch. I do not recommend either of these changes though.

Toxic Orb Breloom is an old relic set from Gen IV that is still surprisingly hard to deal with, and yet is rarely ever seen. The EV investment allows Breloom to wall Rotom-W and set up a free sub, while maximizing HP recovery from whatever it Leech Seeds. The special bulk also allows Breloom to survive some super effective special attacks such as LO Thundurus-I HP Ice and (usually) SDef Heatran Lava Plume, giving it the opportunity to retaliate with Drain Punch or another move. The most common attacking move on Toxic Orb Sub/Seed Breloom is Focus Punch, but Drain Punch has proven itself to be much more useful. Drain Punch eliminates the need for Breloom to Spore sleep fodders and set up Subs for a chance to attack, and it deals heavy damage even without any investment. Breloom has a secondary role as an answer to Knock Off and certain bulky and/or slow attackers such as Aegislash, Azumarill, Bisharp, Tyranitar and Conkeldurr.
Credit to Goutland for inspiring this set as a reliable Rotom-W counter.


Threat List

Considering that this team is built to deal with as many common threats as possible, I figured I should go more indepth on what checks/counters what. So here's a list based off of the viability ranking thread as of March 3rd:
Red = Notable threat

S Rank

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Aegislash - Alomomola for non-SD sets(special sets), Skarmory for SD sets, Aegislash to win 1v1, Breloom for Spore/Sub/Seed

Charizard (Mega-Y) - Alomomola survives and Mirror Coats after switch-in to Fireblast and Solar Beam after protect, Manectric revenge kills, Aegislash can switch into Solar Beam and stall out sun. Modest Charizard Y is still a problem, and requires me to predict correctly if Alomomola takes too much damage from Fireblast. But calling Charizard Y a threat is a bit of a moot point.

Charizard (Mega-X) - Alomomola Toxic stalls and wish passes to Skarmory if possible. I've personally never seen Outrage on Zard X, but it would OHKO Alomomola at +1 and most likely get revenge killed afterwards

Pinsir (Mega) - Skarmory, Mega Manectric

Thundurus-I - Mega Manectric outspeeds, Alomomola can survive LO Thunderbolt/Volt Switch and Mirror Coat, Breloom survives LO HP Ice, Aegislash survives and KOs, Clefable counters physical sets
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Breloom: 179-213 (68.5 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A+ Rank

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Bisharp - Skarmory, Breloom if Toxic Orb already activated to bait Knock Off

Deoxys-D - Aegislash leads against lead Deoxys-D

Deoxys-S - Aegislash. Beware of Knock Off though

Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega) - Skarmory, Clefable, Mega Manectric can KO after a bit of prior damage, Alomomola can Toxic Megachomp unless it has used SD

Heatran - Clefable for defensive sets, Alomomola wish passing and Mirror Coat for offensive sets

Kyurem-B - Clefable, Aegislash depending on set

Landorus-I - Alomomola, Mega Manectric KOs 100% of the time after SR

Landorus-T - Skarmory, Mega Manectric after SR

Manaphy - Mega Manectric

Rotom-W - Mega Manectric for scouting and checking Trick, TO Breloom, Clefable to absorb predicted WoW

Talonflame - Mega Manectric, Alomomola + Skarmory/Aegislash

Tyranitar (Mega) - Skarmory, Breloom before DD

Venusaur (Mega) - Aegislash, Skarmory or Alomomola depending on set

A Rank

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Azumarill - Skarmory, Aegislash (sometimes), Breloom, Mega Manectric

Dragonite - Skarmory, Clefable (be cautious with WP sets), Mega Manectric outspeeds +1 Adamant

Excadrill - Skarmory, Breloom survives non-LO sets 1v1

Gengar - Alomomola, Manectric outspeeds. Sub with dual STAB is a problem, but can usually be handled by wish passing to Manectric

Greninja - Alomomola, Manectric after mega evolving

Gyarados (Mega) - Skarmory, Mega Manectric outspeeds +1, Alomomola can toxic stall, Clefable can revenge kill

Keldeo - Alomomola, Aegislash with wish support, Mega Manectric outspeeds. Be wary of Sub/CM set setting up on Alomomola, even though it's uncommon

Latias - Aegislash, Alomomola

Latios - Aegislash, Alomomola

Mandibuzz - Mega Manectric, Clefable, Breloom walls

Mawile (Mega) - Aegislash w/ sub, Breloom, Skarmory. Be wary of Knock Off

Scizor / Scizor (Mega) - Mega Manectric, Skarmory Bullet Punch/Knock Off/SD/Roost can be very difficult to deal with if Mega Manectric takes too much damage

Tyranitar - Skarmory, Breloom, Clefable depending on set

A- Rank

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Clefable - Aegislash, bait Moonblast with Alomomola, Breloom can Spore

Conkeldurr - Clefable

Mamoswine - Skarmory

Gyarados - Skarmory, Mega Manectric

Skarmory - Manectric, Aegislash

Terrakion - Skarmory, Aegislash, Clefable

B+ Rank

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Chansey - Aegislash can sub freely, but needs to be wary of Thunder Wave. Breloom counters

Ferrothorn - Aegislash can sub freely, Manectric Flamethrower, Breloom can wear down with Drain Punch

Gardevoir (Mega) - Aegislash, Alomomola takes ~50% from Hyper Voice and OHKOs back

Gliscor - Skarmory walls, Breloom usually walls, Clefable can set up and/or Moonblast, Manectric usually OHKOs defensive set (96 - 114.1%)

Hippowdon - Skarmory walls, Alomomola can Toxic, Breloom can Spore and wear down with Leech Seed

Medicham (Mega) - Aegislash, Alomomola to scout for Fire Punch if necessary, Clefable wins 1v1

Politoed - Alomomola walls choice sets, Breloom/Clefable/Manectric beat defense-oriented sets

Togekiss - Aegislash, Alomomola, Manectric

Zapdos - Breloom outspeeds defensive sets, Offensive Zapdos with LO and Roost is difficult to deal with, but can be KO'd by Alomomola
252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 424-502 (79.4 - 94%)

Notable Playstyle Weaknesses

Baton Pass :( - I usually need to rely on perfect prediction or an early crit to dismantle BP chains. Broken strategy anyway.
Trapping offense - Specifically, Magnezone and Scarf Gothitelle can easily open holes in my team by picking off Skarmory and Breloom respectively.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-94303707
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-94376422
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-93673366
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-94140962
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-89412725
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-94233234
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-91649129

EDIT(reserved for matches against Zard X/Y that don't necessarily show Alomomola OHKOing things with Mirror Coat, but rather showing its overall effectiveness when used correctly):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-96500950
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-101728472
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-101940257
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-101692508

Importable

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Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 1 Spd
- Shadow Ball
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- King's Shield

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
- Wish
- Protect

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Substitute

Have fun if you decide to try this team out!

 

[Robot_3]

Do any Deoxys-D + Bisharp hyper offense teams give you trouble? I have this itchy feeling that some kind of set up sweepers might cause you trouble after breaking a wall or two, but I can't place my finger on any.
The most troubling pokemon for many teams is Bisharp, but Breloom is such a brilliant check, as it doesn't care about sucker punch, and spores. It does speed tie you though so you have to be careful.

The Breloom + Mega Manectric core really protects you from a lot of hyper offense bullshit, as Manectric resists flying priority (HUGE) and he is also fucking fast.

Some threats I see;
-healthy Mega Garchomp running a mixed set, if he predicts correctly then one of your walls is going down.

-Mega Venusaur? You don't have any Psychic moves and your only flying move is Brave Bird on Skarmory which isn't that powerful. I can see him really causing some damaging stall-outs, isn't he a big problem to your team or am I not seeing something? You played around 1 pretty well in the replay but maybe in another situation it would have caused more harm.

-I wanted to say a Specs special attacker that can break through Alomomola in 1 hit would cause you problems, but these instances are rare. The only thing I could find is Life Orb or Specs Solar Power Heliolisk in the Sun.
I don't think you have a safe switch for such a creature actually, and Mega Manectric can't really revenge kill it either (does pitiful damage with all attacks).


All around, pretty amazing team and I'm impressed with the Breloom/Manectric core, these are 2 pokemon I overlooked but now I see that, together, these 2 have amazing power to shut many threats down.

 

[branflakes]

Do any Deoxys-D + Bisharp hyper offense teams give you trouble? I have this itchy feeling that some kind of set up sweepers might cause you trouble after breaking a wall or two, but I can't place my finger on any.
The most troubling pokemon for many teams is Bisharp, but Breloom is such a brilliant check, as it doesn't care about sucker punch, and spores. It does speed tie you though so you have to be careful.

The Breloom + Mega Manectric core really protects you from a lot of hyper offense bullshit, as Manectric resists flying priority (HUGE) and he is also fucking fast.

Some threats I see;
-healthy Mega Garchomp running a mixed set, if he predicts correctly then one of your walls is going down.

-Mega Venusaur? You don't have any Psychic moves and your only flying move is Brave Bird on Skarmory which isn't that powerful. I can see him really causing some damaging stall-outs, isn't he a big problem to your team or am I not seeing something? You played around 1 pretty well in the replay but maybe in another situation it would have caused more harm.

-I wanted to say a Specs special attacker that can break through Alomomola in 1 hit would cause you problems, but these instances are rare. The only thing I could find is Life Orb or Specs Solar Power Heliolisk in the Sun.
I don't think you have a safe switch for such a creature actually, and Mega Manectric can't really revenge kill it either (does pitiful damage with all attacks).


All around, pretty amazing team and I'm impressed with the Breloom/Manectric core, these are 2 pokemon I overlooked but now I see that, together, these 2 have amazing power to shut many threats down.

You're absolutely right about some of the points you made regarding threats. Fireblast Garchomp (not necessarily mega) can really nail Skarmory on the switch if I'm not careful, and it survives HP Ice from full. More often than not, full HP Garchomp will try to EQ my Manectric expecting hidden power ice, which gives me a free opportunity to switch to Skarm and lay down some rocks. Mega Venusaur is always difficult to take down, and depending on its moves it can really cause trouble. I can usually switch between Alomomola, Skarmory and Aegislash to deal with most sets, but if I encountered a Venusaur with Knock Off, Sludge Bomb, HP Fire and Synthesis I would be in a lot of trouble. Good thing I've never seen this yet.

I never realized that Heliolisk was capable of destroying my team, but a Solar Power boosted set sounds really dangerous. I don't have any safe switch-ins, but I do have some revenge killers. So my best bet would probably be to sacrifice what I need least if absolutely necessary, and then revenge kill with a sun-boosted Flamethrower from Manectric or just scare it out and kill the Drought user.

Lastly, Deoxys-D + Bisharp is always a pain to deal with. I can usually pick off Deoxys-D with Aegislash, activate its red card and preventing it from getting up more than one-two hazards, but they don't always tend to go for a layer of spikes considering that I have Skarmory to bluff Defog. Breloom isn't by any means a foolproof answer to Bisharp, but if I see Deo-sharp in the team preview I will make sure to activate Toxic Orb as soon as possible so that I can freely switch into Knock Off. Skarmory can also take Bisharp's attacks and Whirlwind if needed, but it's usually pretty taxing on Skarmory's lastability later in a match.

 

[Robot_3]

Interesting responses. As for Mega Garchomp, I don't see him very often myself. I am one of the only people I've seen who uses it, and the good news for you is that I find it pretty hard to switch it in sometimes and keep it healthy.
The bad news would be that, once it does get in, you either need to sacrifice a pokemon or make one hell of a prediction to get manectric in (he doesn't need to be mega evolved yet!) to HP Ice it.

And Heliolisk is even more rare, I don't think I have seen anyone (besides Avarice87) above rank 1400 using one, let alone on a sun-supported team, so you are very safe.

DeoSharp is stupid and I think Deo-D needs a suspect test way before people even talk about "SwagPlay" bans, but that's a rant for another day.


Sorry I didn't give you a full rate in my previous comment, but I was trying to get a response so I could fully understand how you respond to those threats before I could suggest anything.
Unfortunately, I have no clue. All of the changes I could suggest would involve altering the sanctity of the team. On 2nd inspection, Skarm can 1v1 Mega Venusaur, it's just a slow process, but everything is a slow process when you're killing Mega Venusaur. Not even Alakazam STAB Psychic kills it in 1 hit, so I think Skarmory doing 50% with Brave Bird is pretty respectable. The only problem is Venusaur's Synthesis, but it does only have 8 PP. Your best bet is to make him use some Synthesis and then your Skarmory, with 24 PP Brave Bird, can finish it eventually if it has used ~3 Synthesis already. The only change I could recommend is Taunt on Skarmory, but it won't work very well because M-Venu outspeeds, plus your set can't afford to lose a move. It's a tricky situation. If you want a team member that can man-handle Mega Venusaur then I might suggest switching Clefable for a Jirachi with Wish, Calm mind, Psychic, and either Protect or a coverage move. Jirachi could also run a Power Up Punch set (he has better physical coverage moves), but I don't like that as much. With roughly the same EV's as your Clefable now, Jirachi can reach +1/+1 or +2/+2 easily, and then it's doing 80-90% hits on Mega Venusaur while doing the same function that Clefable did. He is even immune to toxic like Clefable is. The only problem is that it can't handle Heatran, so I don't know if it's a good trade.

I think DeoSharp teams can be handled by good Breloom play + Manectric revenge killing. Substitutes will really wreck that kind of "high tempo" strategy and, after learning H.O. myself for a while (it's a really stupid strategy devoid of all skill, by the way), a Breloom like yours behind a substitute is something that would really scare me. DeoSharp is hard to deal with for many teams, not just yours, but I think your team can play around it. I think the key is Mega Manectric dismantling dual-bird teams.

I wouldn't know what to suggest for Mega Chomp. That thing brings so much raw power, especially if it is used in sandstorm the way I have used it in the past. I know the numbers, they are ridiculous.
Alomomola can't handle it in the sand IF it goes for earthquake, although many players will assume your fish is a physical wall (due to its stats) and they will go for the draco meteor; there is an opportunity to get the mirror coat off, taking about 70% of Garchomp's life.

Having Rocks somewhere on the team could help against some threats by putting them into KO range. Unfortunately, Garchomp is the main threat you need to be not-healthy and he resists rocks.

 

[unklewiggles]

First of i really like the team it's very creative
But have you thought of cosmic power with stored power on clefable
It makes it incredibly tanky allowing it to handle scizor better i havn't run calcs for it but if given the chance to set up ive seen cosmic power clefable sweep before once it got a few cosmic powers up, just a thought.

 

[blizzarddd]

gotta be careful with manaphy. if no rocks are on the field, it sweeps with a +3 boost. manectric's volt switch is a 2HKO, and thunderbolt only OHKOs 35% of the time. Alomomola is OHKOd by energy ball as well.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 510-600 (95.5 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

thankfully, manaphy isn't super prevalent, and you can always volt switch twice if needed. other than that, I am really failing to see a problem with this team. something like a scarfed thundurus-T might give you trouble, 2HKOing your squad, but still, i don't think i've ever seen one of those (might have to start using one now)

 

[Robot_3]

Ah, the other thing that I find troubling about the team after playing with it a few times is lack of rapid spin/defog.
It seems for a semi-stall team this should be important, since you will be switching a lot in response to enemy threats?

Perhaps Skarmory could run defog, but he really likes all of the moves he has right now..
You must have found quite an inventive way to get around entry hazard spammers to get so high in the ladder. Although 3 members of your team don't really care about entry hazards, Manectric can get worn down quick and he's a big part of the team..

 

[branflakes]

Manectric is easily the weakest when it comes to hazard stacking, which is often associated with stall. Manectric also happens to be pretty useless against stall anyway, which is why it has never been a tremendous issue. I would like to give Skarmory Defog, but it seems much less necessary compared to its other moves. Can't really have everything.

Manaphy isn't often an issue when I encounter its standard Tail Glow set. At the very most, I'll need to make a single sacrifice to scare it out or weaken it to the point of being unable to setup and attempt a sweep again. The CM/Scald/RainDance/Rest set is significantly more threatening, and it forces me to 1v1 with Clefable or try to take it out with Manectric before it boosts too much. Both are manageable though.

 

[Little Hulk]

Although I don't have anything to add to your team, I just wanted to drop by and say that your use of Alomomola is not only VERY clever, but it's also oddly inspiring. The success of your unique set proves that sometimes overlooked and forgotten Pokemon can become viable if they are tailored properly for the right job on a fitting team. Superb team all around, this is honestly the first RMT I've ever hit "like" on.

 

[Nails]

Mola is broken.

On to a real rate, I think your team could struggle a ton with a volt turn core, as your team doesn't have any way to deal with spikes or rocks (and 4/6 are spikes weak), has no electric immunities after manectric has megaevolved and manectric is basically dead if you mispredict with it once. Since you mentioned that you haven't struggled with hazards I'll assume spikestacking offense is out of meta and trust your judgment on that. Just something to be really careful of, running a stall team with no way to remove spikes has generally been a bad idea.

Cool team overall.

 

[branflakes]

Spikestacking offense isn't necessarily out of the meta, but spikes are relatively uncommon and it usually depends on Deoxys-D or Deoxys-S's survivability. Both of them struggle to get up more than 1-2 hazards on the field, which really isn't a huge problem for my team. It does force me to play a bit more offensively though, and I would consider it somewhat of a weakness to this team that I haven't felt the need to patch up just yet.

If I did give Skarmory Defog, what would be the best move to replace? It seems to be about as difficult to give Skarmory Defog as it is to give Alomomola Knock Off lol

btw thanks for the rates guys :)

 

[Nails]

You'd probably drop rocks, and shift them onto clefable which would force it to not run a cm set. It's probably going to make the team weaker if you make that change, so I'd suggest just sticking with what you have.

It seems like your team is extremely reliant on mola mirror coating something to get a first kill, so I guess just be careful vs players who play passively, because your team doesn't have the tools to secure kills of a lot of other stall teams (spikes, tspikes, trapping, etc). Stall vs Stall in particular looks like a really bad matchup for this team. Which again, is a weakness that isn't terrible if the meta is pretty offensive, but I'd watch out for that.

 

[Ash Borer]

Hey branflakes your team is super weak to sun supported houndoom

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola in Sun: 243-286 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola in Sun: 472-556 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

after that it just outspeeds and OHKOs the rest of your team if manectric is unevolved. Before you say it's irrelevant, it's not because I use it ^_^

In the department of things you might care about, overheat is a lot better on manectric, it does meaningful damage to aegislash, it OHKOs Excadrill and Ferrothorn too. Flamethrower can not achieve these feats. For that I suggest overheat > flamethrower.

 

[branflakes]

Sun supported Mega Houndoom wears itself down quickly into KO range of Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt when taking Solar Power and SR damage into account. Furthermore, considering Solar Beam is probably going to KO, I would attempt to protect stall with Alomomola and switch to Aegislash on a predicted Solar Beam to continue to stall with King's Shield. Unless the opposing team has a Heat Rock Ninetales or self-setup Houndoom, it will be easy to stall out Sun turns and/or find a safe opening or Alomomola. Yes, my team has potential problems with it and yes, I do care about dealing with less common threats. But no, I wouldn't consider the team "super weak" to it; it just requires a bit of prediction and possibly a sacrifice to get rid of it reliably.

I've considered Overheat on Mega Manectric, but I've been opting for Flamethrower as a low-risk/low-reward (better for stall imo) move, as opposed to Overheat's nature of being a high-risk/high-reward move. I do not want to run the risk of Overheating a Manaphy or a Garchomp on the switch and getting severely punished for it. I'm not saying it isn't worth trying out, but I'd stick with a safer move I can spam all day. Thank you for the suggestion though, because it is something I will still consider.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Wow, this team looks awesome. Props to you for pretty much everything on the team! Good to see Manectric, SubAegi and Mola being used.

I really have nothing to suggest other than Brave Bird>>Drill Peck of Skarm. The recoil damage isn't worth it, IMO, when you can potentially die to recoil. Plus it constantly drops you out of Sturdy.

There are a couple of huge threats to your team, although quite uncommon, could roll straight through the team. Nidoking is a big one since nothing switches in. It's Poison typing means no Toxic and its sheer power can rip through valuable team members. Banded Diggersby+Wild Charge could be a big problem in the hands of a smart player. Charizard X could do a number if it happens to run Outrage (which OHKOs Mola at +1)

Anyways, Gl with the team!

 

[nmitchell890]

Wow, this team looks awesome. Props to you for pretty much everything on the team! Good to see Manectric, SubAegi and Mola being used.

I really have nothing to suggest other than Brave Bird>>Drill Peck of Skarm. The recoil damage isn't worth it, IMO, when you can potentially die to recoil. Plus it constantly drops you out of Sturdy.

There are a couple of huge threats to your team, although quite uncommon, could roll straight through the team. Nidoking is a big one since nothing switches in. It's Poison typing means no Toxic and its sheer power can rip through valuable team members. Banded Diggersby+Wild Charge could be a big problem in the hands of a smart player. Charizard X could do a number if it happens to run Outrage (which OHKOs Mola at +1)

Anyways, Gl with the team!

Skarmory really prefers Brave Bird despite recoil, it really needs the extra damage. Without Brave Bird, Skarmory can't 1v1 Mega-Venusaur is an absolute bitch as Drill Peck doesn't do enough damage to PP stall Synthesis. Also, on a defensive team such as this one, Skarmory shouldn't be reliant on Sturdy.

On a different note, this team is extremely original and obviously successful, congrats :) I only wish my Regenerator stall team was as good. Slowbro has the defences I need but Slowking has Dragon Tail that I also need. Grrrrrrr

 

[branflakes]

It's true that the recoil damage from Brave Bird does become an issue sometimes, so I'm curious to see how much I really need that extra 60 base power (180 vs 120). I agree with nmitchell890 that the extra damage is important, but against Mega Venusaur I have to recover way too often if I'm taking leech seed damage + recoil. It's a valid suggestion that I might try out.

Yeah, unfortunately some of more uncommon mons like Mega Houndoom, Nidoking and Banded Diggersby will always pose a threat if played well. Fortunately for me, these things are so rarely (never) seen at the top of the ladder and/or in tournament play, so accounting for them seems like a waste. Zard X with Outrage is scary, but it's also fairly uncommon and can be revenge killed by Aegislash after a taking some damage.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 183-216 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Though if I still need Alomomola to check a special attacker than I guess I'm SOL

spike stacking really does troll this team, in fact, a skarm w/ spikes and a chansey/blissey/heatran with stealth rocks completely wall most of this squad, whirlwinding/roaring you out at will

True, but my team also does a fairly good job at walling that core assuming the Heatran isn't an offensive set. I see what you're saying though. This team really doesn't like spike stacking.

 

[Goutland]

Ganonpunch and I want credit :P

You can call me Dave or David man. I've got different usernames everywhere. But yeah Branflakes is a friend of mine and I make suggestions for his teams from time to time. I'm not begging for any credit though, it was Branflakes who found the great synergy of these mons.

But now I have to call out the last two posters...

This team is solid. No question of that. I spot two weaknesses (using the term loosely), and they are so rarely seen it doesn't matter.
1. Exeggutor with power swap. You appear to be quite good at predicting, but if ever faced against him, one small misprediction could spell doom. He 100% counters Breloom. Of course, Aegislash and Skarmory wall him completely, but switch into a sleep powder and trouble could be had. Like I said though, so uncommon it will never be an issue.
2. Assault Vest Entei. In my experience, he is the single best Aegislash counter in existence. He takes all of Aegislash's hits like a champ, and Sacred Fire can horribly cripple him. Same goes for Breloom. And Skarmory. And with access to Iron Head, Clefable too, but not as much; it requires a critical hit to really do some damage. Since you're running HP ground anyway, that isn't an issue.

Like I said though, two very, very rarely seen pokemon. I offer my congratulations on your success.

His team isn't remotely weak to either of these pokemon... lol. Exeggutor can beat Breloom and maybe Alomomola if you're a sub seed or specs variant, but the rest of his team can easily handle it after scouting the set. The fact that he has multiple pokemon to handle it also makes sleep powder a non issue. Assault vest Entei is hard countered by Alomomola and is heavily pressured by hazards and its lack of reliable recovery. Iron head/flare blitz aren't breaking through Clefable without a choice band, crits, or flinches, so he's even got a secondary answer to it.

malmar is basically gg if the opponent takesout skarmory, im just throwing that out there

Malamar doesn't beat anything on his team 1 on 1 besides Aegislash. :| It doesn't break Clefable nor Alomomola, and it doesn't like taking volt switches from Manectric or drain punches from Breloom. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Skarmory is his only answer to Malamar.

As for the team, Branflakes already knows I think it's great. Although relying on a gimmick (mirror coat Alomomola) hurts its long term viability, this team still has answers for most of the top threats people are using. I still don't know if I agree with sub Aegislash, but you've shown that it can work so I won't knock it. HP ground on Clefable is probably my favorite part of the team as it lets you beat one of its top checks without compromising your coverage too much. I've been using it (hp ground Clefable) myself and it's surprising to see how many people are unprepared for it.

 

[branflakes]

It's easy to find pokemon that pose a threat to the team. Basically everything S Rank and A+ Rank on the Viability Thread is a threat to my team, but I know of ways to manage most of them anyway. Defensive Zapdos really isn't an issue unless paralysis ends up affecting me at a critical point in the match later on. Otherwise Clefable wins 1v1, Alomomola doesn't take much from uninvested Discharge, and Breloom outspeeds and isn't OHKO'd by Heat Wave.

Offensive Zapdos is actually a significant threat to my team that I already mentioned in the first post.

Goutland covered everything else I wanted to say. I appreciate the feedback you're all giving, but keep in mind that this team wasn't built in preparation for everything imaginable. I'm more concerned about relevant metagame trends like spike-stacking teams, volt turn cores and universally powerful sets.

 

[branflakes]

I've used Flash Cannon in place of Iron Head for a while before switching it. Flash Cannon is nice to have with the special attacking investment, but it allows Aegislash to be completely walled by specially defensive threats. Furthermore, Clefable doesn't need to worry about Flash Cannon after getting a couple boosts, and Clefable is one of the biggest reasons I'm using Steel STAB in the first place. Iron Head is almost always a 2HKO on CM Clefable.

By the way, I've been losing a lot to cookie-cutter Baton Pass teams lately (Scolipede, Vaporeon, Smeargle, Espeon, Scizor, Sylveon), and I really have no idea how to modify my team to deal with them. They have been shooting my ELO down every time I've gotten above 1900, and it's the only situation where I can't make good plays to gain an advantage. Any suggestions? I'd hate having to modify my team for something so situational, but its an increasingly popular strategy for players who want to climb the ladder with ease. I'm pretty sure there's no easy fix.

 

[brookswashere]

I've used Flash Cannon in place of Iron Head for a while before switching it. Flash Cannon is nice to have with the special attacking investment, but it allows Aegislash to be completely walled by specially defensive threats. Furthermore, Clefable doesn't need to worry about Flash Cannon after getting a couple boosts, and Clefable is one of the biggest reasons I'm using Steel STAB in the first place. Iron Head is almost always a 2HKO on CM Clefable.

By the way, I've been losing a lot to cookie-cutter Baton Pass teams lately (Scolipede, Vaporeon, Smeargle, Espeon, Scizor, Sylveon), and I really have no idea how to modify my team to deal with them. They have been shooting my ELO down every time I've gotten above 1900, and it's the only situation where I can't make good plays to gain an advantage. Any suggestions? I'd hate having to modify my team for something so situational, but its an increasingly popular strategy for players who want to climb the ladder with ease. I'm pretty sure there's no easy fix.

I know this perhaps isn't the best solution, but how about Special Celebi with Perish Song? Also acts as a status absorber.

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Perish Song

 

[Clair]

Played this team a few times, once against you I think (or at least against a top 10 ranked account). I won each time using full stall, which I think is the most serious "mainstream" (i.e. not Baton Pass) weakness of the team. You don't have any way at all of wallbreaking against stall, assuming they can handle CM Fable (which all successful stalls do). Meanwhile, you have no way of clearing entry hazards, and don't have Spikes of your own to even the playing field against Defog-reliant stalls.

There are a couple of things I think you need to consider; firstly, run Defog on Skarmory. Having no hazard control is just going to kill you - and Brave Bird is a bit replaceable considering the falling usage of Pinsir. Second, it's definitely worth considering a pink blob over Clefable, allowing you to run physically defensive Alomomola (or a replacement if you'd prefer), providing your team with reliable Cleric support and a full stop to both Charizard's at the cost of some minor offensive presence. This would also give you another reliable counter to WoW Rotom so you could experiment with a few different things in Breloom's spot as well.

If you absolutely need to beat Baton Pass you could consider something like Haze Milotic or Perish Song Celebi (over 'lomo or Breloom respectively) but at that point you're just compromising overall effectiveness.

Hope that helps, I really love the use of Manectric and Alomomola (who I've considered incredibly underrated since the weather nerf), great team man.

 

[branflakes]

I know full stall is an issue, but I feel as though this team is just as difficult to break for the opposing stall team. I've beaten plenty of standard Venusaur/Chansey/Heatran/Quagsire cores in 100+ turn battles, so while I might be at a slight disadvantage it isn't an automatic loss whenever I see it. Obviously though, it's somewhat of a weakness that I can't ignore. I could try Defog instead of Brave Bird on Skarmory, but that would undoubtedly hurt the team's ability to deal with heavy offense. Chansey in place of Alomomola or Clefable could help the team on the defensive side, but does no favors if I still have no way to deal with Spikes.

So it really comes down to trying to fit Defog on Skarmory somehow. I can't replace Whirlwind, I need rocks for offensive pressure and Skarm without Roost seems foolish, so it seems like replacing Brave Bird is the only option I have. I'll give it a shot and see how things go.

EDIT: I suppose I could also shift stealth rocks to Clefable or another pokemon in place of Clefable. But this slot would still have to be able to deal with Conkeldurr and SpDef Heatran. As for Baton Pass, the easiest fix is probably Unaware Clefable but this ruins my chances of dealing with any Heatran if I get burned by Lava Plume :/

 

[AlexDJi]

Don't have much advice regarding BP as I don't play much semi-stall (usually I just boost alongside it). Although it might seem kind of hard to pull off, using your team alone, I believe it's possible to deal with BP.
I too run a skarmory on my team and have played against BP in the upper most ladder with something along the lines of (Scolipede, Sylveon, Espeon, Smeargle, Mr. Mime, Vaporeon) and when I see those I lead with skarmory. Scolipede is 99% there lead and I just go for the Whirlwind. Eventually, this will bring out their smeargle with no boosts.
Here's where it gets kind of tricky. For me, I just let the least useful member be put to sleep (or he might ingrain). But in your case, you have Breloom. Just send that in and go for the Spore.
You probably have already thought of this but, just a little piece of advice in case you hadn't.

In regards to Unaware Clefable, don't do it haha. Unaware doesn't affect the damage of Stored Power.

 

[Jaroda]

I'd consider Sylveon over Clefable for the purpose of Stall and BP teams. With Hyper Voice you are able to bypass Substitutes which both teams heavily depend on. She also has fantastic SpD off the bat which your team lacks a bit so that would help, and could still function as a CM user that also gets Stored Power, or HP Ground as it were.

I'd also consider Soak on Alo. This would allow you to use Toxic on even Steel and Poison types and would be more reliable than Mirror Coat I think, since you can Soak on a switch and Toxic the next turn and even if they switch again something else will be Poisoned and you get more Leftovers recovery. It will also take the STAB away from offensive threats, or simply make something like Mega Venusaur far easier to handle.

 

[FairPlayFairGame]

wow incredible team gotta sleep now but gonna see all the replays and look further this team in the morning, really liked the Aegislash with substitute and now i want to try M-Magnetric out, btw if not much to ask on my part could you see my RMT and help me out with mine? as I'm trying to use different thing to the most common saw Pokémon currently peaked at 1435 (14/2), well good night and good luck with this and future teams Branflakes325http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/branflakes325.191854/