Meowth [QC: 1/3]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Overview
########
Ability: Technician, with notable moves bite and fake out
High base speed + U-turn
Good coverage
Outclassed in its niche


Hit-And-Run
########
name: Hit-And-Run
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Return / Covet
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Knock Off
Ability: Technician
Item: Life Orb / Normal Gem
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly

Moves
========
-fake out has high priority, can be used whenever meowth is sent in and hits very hard with STAB, life orb/normal gem and technician. This combination of boosts gives it easily the strongest fake out in the meta and outclasses some of the best fake outers such as mienfoo and meditite.
-Covet works great with fake out and normal gem as normal gem is used up by fake out, freeing up the item slot for covet to steal an item. Not to mention, covet is 60bp so it benefits from technician, and for this reason I'd say it is better than return/life orb. If meowth manages to steal an eviolite, it adds a huge amount to his bulk which can be very beneficial, but stealing berry juice would be a great positive too as it could be consumed later, allowing covet to steal another item.
-U-turn because meowth outspeeds most of the tier when Jolly, so it can be used as a pivot
-return the STAB of choice, and hits very hard under life orb
-knock off because it can knock eviolites off mons such as missy which is very handy. With life orb it hits exceptionally hard.

Set Details
========
-196 Spe brings it into 19 speed tier with Jolly, essential to tie with fast threats like murkrow and misdreavus
-236 Atk is obvious, as it is a physical attacker so moves hit as hard as possible
-36 in HP and 36 in SpD is mostly filler, but gives it a few extra points of bulk to try and survive hits
-Life orb is to be used with return to hit as hard as possible
-Normal gem is for covet as normal gem would be used up with fake out, freeing up your item slot to take one with covet.

Usage Tips
========
-Fake out whenever sent in, unless against a ghost
-U-turn whenever you can, allows you to use fake out again asap
-Meowth is incredibly frail due to the fact it has 0 resistances and just one immunity. This means it is very hard to switch Meowth in on anything bar ghost moves. This means meowth must be played carefully, and must be played to avoid as many hits as possible. Try to refrain from switching in meowth when you anticipate a damaging move, he is best when sent in after another mon faints, or on non-damaging moves that he does not care about such as taunt.

Team options
========
-Any ghost type, to predict a fighting type attack used on meowth
-Something to take out misdreavus, such as lum berry + knock off pawniard
-Volt switch / u-turn support for constant pivoting. It is best to use slower yet bulky pivots as this allows them to take hits first and bring meowth in safely without him taking a hit himself. Examples of this include magnemite, nosepass and larvesta.
-Elgyem and wynaut are good partners for meowth, as they can deal with meditite, who destroys meowth with a combination of STAB and its priority, bullet punch, which can hit meowth before it can pivot.

Other Options
########
-Access to nasty plot for a special / mixed set, can use hidden power which now gets technician boost. Other special moves which meowth can utilise with technician include swift, shock wave, water pulse and icy wind. Meowth however finds it hard to set up due to its frailty.
-Switcheroo can be used to pass on crippling items such as flame orb, or an unwanted choice scarf, due to meowths high speed. (Would be even higher with a choice scarf first turn and almost guaranteed to pass it on)
-Double Edge for stronger STAB
-Seed bomb is great for hitting tirtouga hard with 4x damage, it also deals a great amount of damage to unsuspecting frillish and chinchou.
-Hypnosis can be great to gain momentum with U-Turn, but is highly unreliable.
-Aerial ace is another option for physical coverage, as it can deal big hits to meowths only weakness, fighting, and can surprise the frailer fighting types.

Checks & Counters
########
prankster- e.g murkrow with thunder wave, as meowth doesn't like status
bulky ghosts- tank a bite from meowth and cripple him with Will-O-Wisp, only option is to U-turn
priority- meowth is reliant on speed and has poor bulk, so priority can be a real problem
timburr/croagunk- timburr and croagunk can OHKO meowth with their STAB fighting attacks, and they don't care about being outsped due to their access to fighting type priority, which meowth is incredibly scared of.
Scrafty-switches in on knock off at 4x resistance, and at this point he can set up a free dragon dance or take meowth out with a drain punch, providing it is on enough health to survive a return/covet. This causes a huge momentum shift in the battle as meowth struggles to pivot and cannot chip away at scraftys health with fake out.
 
Last edited:

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Having its main STAB move return slashed with a coverage move doesn't sit right with me, perhaps slash Aerial Ace with Bite and Seed Bomb and provide the reasons for each. But return is necessary.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys, will do that ASAP:)

Also rather than strain for a second viable set, I think I'm just gonna stick with the first one only.
 
Last edited:
so the set should look like this:

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Hypnosis
Move 3: Return / Knock Off
Move 4: U-turn
Ability: Technician
Item: Life orb
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 192 Spe
Nature: Jolly

with the other three moves getting a mention in the moves section. meowth getting hypnosis is so useful, even if it only has 60 accuracy. it's speed lets it incapacitate whatever the hell you want basically. this thing works a little similarly to yanma's Compoundeyes hypnosis + u-turn set, and grants pretty nice momentum. in the overview, mention meowth's pitiful attack stat, and it's ability to grab momentum with fake out, hypnosis, and u-turn. those points arguably make it better then aipom (who I assume you are saying outclasses meowth). meowth also gets knock off, so I slashed it after return so you can hit stuff like missy and physical walls.
 
Last edited:
so the set should look like this:

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Hypnosis
Move 3: Return / Knock Off
Move 4: U-turn
Ability: Technician
Item: Life orb
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 192 Spe
Nature: Jolly

with the other three moves getting a mention in the moves section. meowth getting hypnosis is so useful, even if it only has 60 accuracy. it's speed lets it incapacitate whatever the hell you want basically. this thing works a little similarly to yanma's Compoundeyes hypnosis + u-turn set, and grants pretty nice momentum. in the overview, mention meowth's pitiful attack stat, and it's ability to grab momentum with fake out, hypnosis, and u-turn. those points arguably make it better then aipom (who I assume you are saying outclasses meowth). meowth also gets knock off, so I slashed it after return so you can hit stuff like missy and physical walls.
Thanks, this helped a bunch. Also, yeah I was referring to Aipom!
 
I'd actually have Covet, 90 BP after Tech, over Return, while putting Return in OO. Covet is notable due to stealing items (Berry Juice, Eviolite) from walls like Spritzee, Munchlax, etc. This gives Meowth a lot more utility, like Knock Off. I also won't give a main slot to Hypnosis, it's much too shaky. The only reason Yanma used it is because of Compoundeyes, giving it accuracy that exceeded Sleep Powder.

Side note: Aipom does not outclass Meowth.
 
Last edited:
I'd actually have Covet, 90 BP after Tech, over Return, while putting Return in OO. Covet is notable due to stealing items (Berry Juice, Eviolite) from walls like Spritzee, Munchlax, etc. This gives Meowth a lot more utility, like Knock Off. I alsowon't give a main slot to Hyposis, it's much too shaky. The only reason Yanma used it is because of Compoundeyes, giving it accuracy that exceeded Sleep Powder.

Side note: Aipom does not outclass Meowth.
FIXED UGH THAT BUGGED ME

anyways, hypnosis is still useful even when it has low accuracy. sleep is kind of a rare condition in lc, and the ability to incapacitate your opponent for several turns is devastating to any sort of team, lest they have a cleric. and I wouldn't bother with covet. meowth isn't going to survive any knock offs to make use of covet in the first place, and is arguably inferior to knock off since you need to lose your own item first.
 
FIXED UGH THAT BUGGED ME

anyways, hypnosis is still useful even when it has low accuracy. sleep is kind of a rare condition in lc, and the ability to incapacitate your opponent for several turns is devastating to any sort of team, lest they have a cleric. and I wouldn't bother with covet. meowth isn't going to survive any knock offs to make use of covet in the first place, and is arguably inferior to knock off since you need to lose your own item first.
Why is Meowth not using Normal Gem in the first place? Honestly, you're not using Meowth to its advantages over Aipom. Instead, you're making Meowth as Aipom-esque as you could possibly make it, which is not a very smart idea. You're basically saying: "How can I make Meowth as inferior to Aipom as possible?"
The set you should be using is as follows:

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Covet
Move 3: Knock Off / Bite
Move 4: U-turn
Ability: Technician
Item: Normal Gem
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly

You can put Bite in OO, as it hits more than Knock off does after two hits, 180 vs. 162, and is thus more consistent. Return also goes in OO, as it is stronger STAB, but lacks the utility provided by Covet. Hypnosis is also OO material, but it's hard to find a moveslot, honestly, as I mentioned. Seed Bomb is also OO material, as hitting stuff like Tirt is always nice.
 
Last edited:
Why is Meowth not using Normal Gem in the first place? Honestly, you're not using Meowth to its advantages over Aipom. Instead, you're making Meowth as Aipom-esque as you could possibly make it, which is not a very smart idea. You're basically saying: "How can I make Meowth as inferior to Aipom as possible?"
The set you should be using is as follows:

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Covet
Move 3: Knock Off / Bite
Move 4: U-turn
Ability: Technician
Item: Normal Gem
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly

You can put Bite in OO, as it hits more than Knock off does after two hits, 180 vs. 162, and is thus more consistent. Return also goes in OO, as it is stronger STAB, but lacks the utility provided by Covet. Hypnosis is also OO material, but it's hard to find a moveslot, honestly, as I mentioned. Seed Bomb is also OO material, as hitting stuff like Tirt is always nice.
Umm Aipom gets that entire moveset bar bite, which should not be a slash anyways. Hypnosis and Technician Fake Out are two things Meowth gets over Aipom, so it should be using them by your logic. Hypnosis can grab lots of momentum, which is what the set is about. Normal Gem creates an inconsistency in damage output, even if Life Orb makes you take recoil. And even after Technician, Covet is still weaker than Return.
 
Umm Aipom gets that entire moveset bar bite, which should not be a slash anyways. Hypnosis and Technician Fake Out are two things Meowth gets over Aipom, so it should be using them by your logic. Hypnosis can grab lots of momentum, which is what the set is about. Normal Gem creates an inconsistency in damage output, even if Life Orb makes you take recoil. And even after Technician, Covet is still weaker than Return.
I mentioned Return being stronger in the description, the point is to take an item from a bulky mon, Spritzee to allow something actually threatening, MediKrow, to push through. Hypnosis is a mediocre as hell move; one miss and Meowth dies, which is not what you want. This set capitalizes on doing what Aipom does inferior.
 
I mentioned Return being stronger in the description, the point is to take an item from a bulky mon, Spritzee to allow something actually threatening, MediKrow, to push through. Hypnosis is a mediocre as hell move; one miss and Meowth dies, which is not what you want. This set capitalizes on doing what Aipom does inferior.
this set grabs momentum with a strong fake out (stronger than aipom's even without normal gem), puts something to sleep with hypnosis which Aipom cannot do, and then attacks an incoming opponent with Return or Knock Off or switches out using U-turn. Once the asleep pokemon is dead, bring Meowth back in and cripple something else with Hypnosis. How can Aipom do that?
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
The set should look something more like this:

Hit-And-Run
########
name: Hit-And-Run
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Return / Covet
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Knock Off
Ability: Technician
Item: Life Orb / Normal Gem
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly

  • Giving Meowth 18 Speed is a horrible idea. 196 EVs in Spe with Jolly nature is necessary to give Meowth 19 Speed, which is a very important Speed tier that allows it to outspeed the vast majority of Little Cup and tie with important threats such as Murkrow and Misdreavus. 236 EVs in Atk makes Meowth as strong as it can possibly be after attaining optimal Speed. The remaining EVs are better off being split as 36 each into HP and SpD instead of 72 in Def because doing so offers two added points of bulk instead of one. If you're going to make use of "filler" EVs, make sure you're optimizing them where possible. Return is to be used with Life Orb, and Covet is to be used with Normal Gem to steal an item after using Fake Out.
  • Hypnosis + U-turn is a great strategy, and is so great that it's actually a big part of the reason Yanma was banned. However, Meowth's Hypnosis is far more inaccurate and it does not have the bulk to afford a miss with it; one luck-related mishap with this means death in the majority of cases. 40% chance of this happening is far too likely for it to be considered reliable. Even though Bite gets the Technician boost and Knock Off doesn't, Knock Off against a foe with an item deals more damage anyway and the ability to simultaneously remove its targets' items makes this clearly more viable. Hypnosis can get a mention only in Other Options, and Bite should not be mentioned anywhere in the analysis whatsoever.
  • Meowth is able to deal surprisingly large amounts of damage despite its middling Attack stat, due to its ability to stack so many boosts into its offense. Fake Out gets boosted by STAB, Technician ability, and also Life Orb/Normal Gem, giving it easily the most powerful Fake Out in the entire metagame, and this is its main draw over Mienfoo as a Fake Out user and U-turn pivot. Don't forget that Fake Out is essentially free damage (+3 priority and the foe doesn't get to hit back), and the ability to rack up so much of it by getting it off and then escaping with its high Speed and U-turn is what makes it such a masterpiece.
  • Be sure to mention that Covet got a buff to 60 Base Power this generation, which means that it is as powerful as a move can possibly be without missing out on the Technician boost; this is very significant for Meowth and should be highlighted. This combined with STAB is very strong and also steals an item from its target in the same move. If it steals an Eviolite, Meowth's pitiful bulk is helped out a lot; if it steals Berry Juice, it will consume it when it needs to and then also be able to steal another item with Covet later.
  • Go into detail about Meowth's frailty... Mention that its lack of resistances and sole immunity to Ghost make it really difficult for it to switch in at all. It has no reliable means of recovery and passing it a Wish is incredibly risky, as Meowth takes huge damage even from neutral hits (being at least 2HKOed in the vast majority of circumstances). Meowth should be played in a manner that allows it to get in as much damage as possible while not being attacked; it is absolute trash if played recklessly.
  • Remove Fire-types from Team Options. While it's fundamentally ideal to have something to safely switch in to absorb Will-O-Wisp, users of that move will not be trying to burn Meowth. Misdreavus has to deal with the shaky speed tie and the possibility that it may go last and have to take a Knock Off (and thus item removal as well) or have Meowth U-turn out to a matchup that would be disadvantageous for Misdreavus. Fire-types that use Will-O-Wisp are all slower than Meowth and probably won't get the chance to use it against Meowth, because a smart player is not going to switch it in, and because Meowth can easily Fake Out and U-turn before it can even be targeted by them. The only Fire-type that can match Meowth's Speed is Ponyta, and it is better off OHKOing Meowth with Flare Blitz than letting it live by trying to status it.
  • When you mention users of U-turn and Volt Switch in Team Options, add particular emphasis on ones that are slow. Slow momentum pivots can take damage and then bring Meowth in to do its job without taking damage, and this is the only way to get Meowth in safely apart from bringing it in after one of its teammates faints. Partners that come to mind for this include Larvesta, Nosepass, and Magnemite. Wynaut and Elgyem deserve mentions in Team Options as well, as they both handily deal with Meditite, a Pokemon that not only can easily defeat Meowth but one that often has priority of its own to nick at Meowth's health before it can escape with U-turn.
  • In Other Options, make sure to mention a special set. Meowth has access to many decent special moves that get the Technician boost... not only Hidden Power, but also Swift, Water Pulse, Icy Wind, and Shock Wave, giving it a myriad of attacking options that can work from a specially offensive approach. Nasty Plot can be mentioned here as well, but it should be noted that Meowth often finds it difficult to safely set up with it since it is so frail. Switcheroo also deserves a mention in Other Options for use with either a Choice item or a crippling one like Flame Orb. Aerial Ace is a wonderful move that is as strong as a move can be without missing out on the Technician ability and hits Fighting-types very hard; it deserves a solid mention too. Seed Bomb can get a mention here, as it's useful for slamming Tirtouga hard if hazards are in play to break its Sturdy.
  • Remove Hone Claws, Gunk Shot, and Iron Tail from Other Options. Swords Dance might have been an okay side-option if it got it, but unfortunately Hone Claws is not worth the turn it requires at all. Gunk Shot and Iron Tail don't fulfill a need for anything Meowth has problems hitting, as its STAB hits everything neutrally that either of those attacks would hit for super effective damage, bar Rock-types, which are relatively rare; it's not worth it. Focus Sash should also be removed because the sheer amount of priority in Little Cup would mean it wouldn't last long after being taken down to 1 HP, and so this option would do next to nothing in helping Meowth set up for this reason.
  • When you talk about Fighting-types in Checks & Counters, highlight that Scraggy can switch in on Knock Off on a 4x resistance and basically cause a huge momentum shift and oftentimes a panic, because Meowth won't be able to get chip damage on it with Fake Out in this circumstance, and it can get a free Dragon Dance and restore any health lost in the process by OHKOing Meowth with Drain Punch afterward. Even apart from switching in on Knock Off, Scraggy vs Meowth is an extremely scary scenario for any player using Meowth, unless Scraggy is in low enough health for Return or Covet to finish it off and it hasn't set up yet. Also highlight the huge threat of Timburr and Croagunk because of not only their Fighting-type STAB attacks, but also their access to Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave, respectively. They don't care about being outsped and can easily bring Meowth down even if it opts to U-turn out, despite its superior Speed.


Make these changes and that's QC 1/3 ♥
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top