Hello, everyone!! Sorry to be a day late
(again OTL), but it's time for the usual end-of-submission-phase feedback post! This is also a
24-hour warning as usual, in order to give time to respond to the feedback!
I don't think there are any big announcements to make at the moment, although there are some balance changes that we've discussed and I guess I should give some notice that there may be a poll on those tomorrow when votes open!
This is actually a fairly small update this time around, so I will get right to it, I guess! XP
First, a
notice on 
Krookodile specifically: we've noticed a lot of people giving it some very role-defining and important moves, including major setup options like Swords Dance and Dragon Dance, reliable recovery, and access to pivoting moves like Parting Shot. Be aware that
non-Mega Krookodile is already a strong Pokémon with a solid place in UU and access to very powerful STAB moves and two excellent Abilities - this warrants some amount of caution as we consider how these significant movepool additions will affect its base form and its place in our metagame (rather than just the Mega Evolution we're meant to be making), so I would like to stress that this is
highly discouraged even if not all of them are strictly disallowed.
In particular, I think it's important to note that we are
disallowing the addition of Dragon Dance to Krookodile - it looks like this only concerns one sub at the immediate moment, but it's also come up multiple times in the Discord's #submission-feedback and I could easily see it becoming relevant to any subs that happen in the next 24 hours, so I still think making a more generalized notice is valuable right now.
Any other major setup and pivoting are both still heavily discouraged but will be discussed on a case-by-case basis.
Thank you guys for understanding!
I do love this, but more than one person has voiced being wary of Parting Shot in conjunction with this Ability, and I still don't
recommend it with that in mind;;
I will let you make your own choice on this and not veto regardless, but I think that's worth bringing up since I just made the broader notice above this.
Oookay, I do know at least one person has supported this on the Discord, so it's possible that my opinion on it is unpopular and I definitely don't see fit to
require any change at all - please know that this is just my personal stance and it will not be enforced at all! That said, I'm sssort of really uncomfortable with this?
I'm not going to allow recovery on something this bulky, especially with this good a defensive type. Please remove both Wish and Moonlight from this.
This Ability is strictly Soundproof but better, so I would ordinarily require that it be replaced by Soundproof (or with some other effect entirely) rather than accepting it in its current state.
That said: while you are not the only one to give this effect to Simisear for flavor reasons,
please consider what a given Ability actually does for the Pokémon you're giving it!
I am fully aware that the popular interpretation of Simisear's design is that it's based on the "hear-no-evil" wise monkey, but it's important not to focus so much on flavor that the actual game mechanics become irrelevant; I would encourage the submitters who are focusing on sound moves to identify
specific sound moves they consider
functionally important to their Simisear submissions and put thought into how to work their submission around the benefits of Soundproof, rather than having it there just for the reference.
I know I've said as much before, but
a well-chosen and practically useful Ability is among the most important parts of making a unique and effective submission, and it makes me a bit wary to see so many Simisear taking this Ability as a sort of default option without putting consideration into building around it effectively.
Something that also bears repeating is my usual sentiment of "if possible, please pool your thoughts together and agree on one submission that satisfies all of you" when working with such a similar Ability to other people; rather than just changing this to Soundproof and being done with it, I will ask you to look at other people who've made Soundproof subs and considering what each of you has to gain from the others.
I would consider
ViZar's submission to benefit the most from Soundproof's effects (notably from blocking phasing, on account of its longevity and access to boosting options that help it defensively and not just offensively, as well as his having taken the time to list other moves he considers relevant and explain why a Soundproof user is relevant in the metagame) and would encourage you to provide any input you have as feedback to build on his, if you feel you have anything in mind that would exploit Soundproof better than he does.
I don't think there is any reason to have three different Soundproof subs in the vote unless they are substantially differentiated in other ways, so I am going to exclude this one if it's just that.
This one is just Fluffy but better (trading a Fire weakness for a Poison resistance), so ordinarily I would ask you to replace it with Fluffy itself; however, this is another case that overlaps significantly with other subs, such as
ARandomPerson's Normal/Fairy
Fur Coat Cinccino (almost the same thing). If ARandomPerson does nerf their sub, I think this is another one where I will just ask you to consolidate and give feedback to them instead; however, I do hold the opinion that yours is much better balanced, so you might as well change it to Fluffy anyway and I will just take yours instead if they don't?
I'm not totally sure how best to handle this situation since so many people are taking similar approaches with Cinccino, but I hope this is okay;;
I am wary of this one after our Mega Zoroark already proved controversial; we are already, at present, discussing whether its own ability to use item-manipulating moves can be
removed without compromising the spirit of the sub, and I think it's a bad idea to allow another Mega whose entire point is to do just that so soon after/before this is resolved/in light of that issue. It's also unprecedented - not impossible, but a very bad idea in my eyes in light of how it goes against canon - to have a submission whose Ability
only activates when it Mega Evolves and never else. I think I'm just gonna disallow this one outright, sorry;;
As much as I might like to allow this - it is a really cool effect! - I uh. do not think I can code it to a standard I would be comfortable with for M4A, I'm afraid;;
You might remember
(or even have been influenced by? I know you had a Zoroark that was based on your own Tatsunami!) Poultergeist from the CCD, but I'm afraid that is nooot coded as solidly as I believed when I first shared it and multiple issues have been exposed since playtesting it against another actual player. These are issues that should not matter for the purposes of the CCD format itself and can be worked around rather easily, but they would be much bigger problems in M4A, where there are regular tournaments, ladder matches, and battles between players who don't know each other in general.
So, uh, as cool as this is, the issues that came up the last time I tried to un-faint a Pokémon are definitely too major for me to allow it in a mod that's as polished otherwise as M4A is. OTL
This one I think is just too strong an effect in general - free item control (especially on something with trapping contact moves like Pursuit and strong, reliable contact moves for both of its STABs - while you probably took the incompatibility with Earthquake as a balancing factor, Krookodile comes with High Horsepower, which is almost exactly as strong and makes contact) is strong enough that it should be coming with a drawback if anything, not with the same power boost as 65 BP, type-restricted Knock. I would definitely ask you to nerf this if you can, sorry;;
I'm gonna reiterate what I said to
ARandomPerson on this: there's no reason to allow three different Soundproof subs for the same Pokémon, and this is clearly just using it for a flavor reference (perhaps even a joke in your case) rather than making anything of it mechanically. I am skeptical that simply adding the Psychic type is enough to call them functionally different, especially in light of our other very recent and extremely good Fire/Psychic-type Mega - like... why would you ever use this over Delphox? and how does Soundproof of all things help it with that? - and with that in mind, I will still only be allowing
ViZar's Simisear (which takes into account some particular benefits of the Ability and incorporates them into its movepool) and will encourage you to direct any suggestions you might have to him as feedback rather than having a competing sub.
Mmmm... okay, this is a really cool effect on paper, but I am going to have to make some requests to make it more plausible as an effect and more feasible to code, if that's alright?
As you have it, the Ability is meant to give a one-time, temporary effect to
each Pokémon not currently on the field, but just once per Pokémon, while Floatzel is on the field. This might sound sort of normal, but it's actually wildly unlike what any other Ability does - the most notable issue is that a status like the lifeboat effect (what would ordinarily be called a volatile status) is usually one that wouldn't persist through switches, so it can't be given to each Pokémon that's not on the field and individually track whether each one has or has not used a "lifeboat." It's rare for a move or Ability to affect teammates that aren't in battle at all, but when they do, it's in a permanent way (like Aromatherapy curing
non-volatile statuses) and the game doesn't need to track a new effect or anything it doesn't already store for Pokémon not in battle. This introduces an entirely new mechanic for every Pokémon in a way that I think is outside of the scope of an Ability, as surprising as that might be.
My own suggestion would be to turn this into something more like Wish, Healing Wish or Future Sight instead: a condition that isn't cleared by switching, but only activates a single time (not
per Pokémon but for whatever Pokémon needs it first), for each time Floatzel enters the field and activates its Ability. This would require the least change from what you have and is much more straightforward and consistent with other mechanics, so I would definitely require a change in this vein and strongly recommend that it be something like this specifically, if that's alright! I hope it's not too much of a nerf, since it's not meant as one, but I think this preserves the spirit of the effect well enough and should be plenty to work with if you're using Floatzel.
This one is not a veto and not a required change at all, but like I said earlier in the post, I do at least
strongly discourage adding stuff like pivoting and reliable recovery, especially since (in this case) they don't seem fundamentally required for your Mega to work itself - Parting Shot sort of goes against the function of the Ability, and at least your sample set doesn't use Shore Up.
That said, I thhhink I'm okay with this otherwise! I might be more comfortable with the Speed boost as you suggested, so that's a change I would
support if you were willing, but I won't require it and we can always see how it pans out first if you'd really much rather keep the Attack version for now. .w.
(First thing:
yes. To all of these.)
That said!! Super minor details that are not at all mandatory but might be useful:
I would be okay with removing the three-turn limit on Red Licorice if you wanted! It's likely that the opponent's options boil down to either switch out right away or get hit with a Fire move right away, so wearing off after a duration as long as three turns is not likely to be a significant balance concern, but on the off chance they stick around and you have a teammate that can also take advantage of it, you might as well let the threat last - I think that might be more fun!
Plus it's a marginal bit of streamlining, since it'd be cleaning up a detail that doesn't change much about the Ability's power level, and you know I am all about that XP
I know a previous draft of the Ability turned incoming moves into "spread moves" specifically, which is why you singled out Wide Guard - that said, now that it just splits damage directly, it would be pretty easy to say it doesn't
count for Wide Guard to begin with (while still letting Wide Guard serve its normal purpose if the opponent is using a move that
already does spread damage). Up to you, but this would probably be both simpler and more beneficial to the Floatzel player!
Other super minor thing: tiny bit over the minmaxing limits here - would you be on board with putting 10 more points either into SpA to make up for the -30 Speed or just back into Speed itself?
I'm considering this too strong to have Strong Jaw on account of its STAB Crunch access - I feel it should either have much lower
(like, sub-110) Speed (to pass as just a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper or cleaner) or a weaker Ability that doesn't give it so much immediate breaking power.
This should be replaced with either Gooey or Tangling Hair. (Amusingly, both of them fit perfectly with the flavor you've established!) It can't, however, be a straight upgrade of those + worse Aftermath; one effect is plenty.
As Simisear comes with Nasty Plot, I'm not going to allow this - it has dangerously high Speed, and its Special Attack is backed by a damage-boosting Ability with not nearly convincing enough a drawback.
I think this is really cool, but I feel like asking in any case: does it really need Swords Dance? It seems like it does a lot else and I think its Ability has more interesting applications than just as a setup sweeper, so I would at least personally be more inclined to vote for it without that; this is just feedback and not a required change, but it's a move I would personally support removing, for whatever that's worth!
This is super interesting, but I am opposed to the interaction with Battle Armor and Shell Armor specifically - there's no reason why it should behave differently with them than any other guaranteed crit effect, and those effects are rare enough that it doesn't feel like it actually matters. To me, this is extraneous and I would definitely remove it.
I'm just gonna veto this one, sorry. I
think I saw someone tell you as much on the Discord, so you might already know (or it might've been to
Caionamax, who had a similar Ability), but we generally have a policy against supportive Abilities that have the potential to break teammates no matter how strong or weak the user is, and this definitely has that problem.
In short, this Ability is like if - instead of giving Mega Floatzel Regenerator - you gave Regenerator to every other Pokémon on its team. Sometimes twice, if they already come with Regenerator. The problems with this should be obvious; you can't balance Mega Floatzel around its Ability, because no matter what you do to Floatzel, its allies are the ones that are either balanced or not. A lot of Pokémon would be broken with Regenerator, and many that already have Regenerator would be beyond broken if they got to have it twice - this is a very dangerous Ability for how it enables teammates, no matter what you do to Floatzel.
I would definitely lower Attack on this if you want it to have Strong Jaw, and probably lower Speed a bit as well; however, I also feel I should point out the
very significant overlap between this and StarFalcon555's Krookodile sub, and I am not going to accept both of them. Both of you do have nerfs to make regardless, so if you nerf this and StarFalcon doesn't, I'll still accept yours; however, I will stress that the best solution if you can get in touch would be to collaborate and discuss a joint submission that satisfies both of you, as there are almost no distinguishing factors to work with that would set them apart for voting and there is no benefit to competing.
No to Blue Flare specifically; I think this is... fine? otherwise, but I will not allow Blue Flare on it.
This is not a veto at all, but I'm sorta skeptical of Sand Stream on Krookodile and I can't say I
recommend it here - it just does so little for it, since Ground-types don't benefit from sand directly except through their Abilities (which this is "spending" on setting sand instead of abusing it), and the type overlap it has with the other setters that are probably better at the job (Tyranitar and Hippowdon) makes it harder to fit on a sand team as well. I would support looking into an alternate route for Krookodile specifically if you have the time!
Yyyeah, uh... while the flavor here is kinda neat, I'm very concerned by how significantly it deviates from regular Rapid Spin. Taking one move and changing its type, power, secondary effect
and PP all beyond the point of recognition is something I don't think I think is realistic for an Ability. Consider this... not a veto but a very strong urge to reconsider? ;-;
(You definitely need to record the stat changes on your submissions like everyone else does - it's both easier on voters and easier for you to keep track and avoid mistakes!)
This has a BST increase of 120 and is illegal.
Confusion is not at all an effective way to balance an effect as strong as +2 Attack; I'm definitely not willing to allow the second part of this Ability.
If you do this, please just have it use regular Spit Up; drastically changing how Spit Up works on top of the Ability's other effects definitely makes the whole thing less realistic and makes it make less sense. (I would also just say "if it has anything stockpiled" rather than "after 1 turn," personally.)
Definitely too RNG-reliant. Please save this for something that can get a crit more reliably (skillfully) and can be balanced
around getting an omniboost reliably, rather than being passably balanced and having a 1/24 chance to become broken after any given move.
Also, please tone down the new move additions on both of these (and always - you never need this many new moves) if you stick with them.
I'm not... gonna lie... I think you should just use Levitate? This is more complicated than it needs to be and not all that realistic for an Ability, and it doesn't serve enough of a unique practical purpose to justify it.
Sort of the same feedback I gave to
lydian about his Krookodile: I think this is a much stronger utility effect than you might realize, and I think it's plenty of its own reward - removing the target's item so reliably (on something that can activate it with priority and pivoting, no less) is already very strong, so I would not heal the user on top of that.
ChoiceScarfed made a very similar sub later in the thread, and I think it might benefit you two to talk about and collaborate on the idea if anything - I quite like his idea for the Ability as a middle ground between getting a big reward from every item and not doing anything at all with it, and I think his movepool is less likely to be super hard to play around (I'm struggling to decide if U-turn or Fake Out is okay with this, but I would say definitely not both).
I know you definitely got feedback on this and that you balanced it about as well as one could, but I'm personally super nervous about this - I think boosting Attack
that easily is a very big risk.
I will concede that you definitely handled this about as well and as carefully as this Ability could possibly be handled, so
tentatively, I won't veto it and we can see if it pans out okay if it happens to win.
Still, I would encourage you to consider narrowing the scope of moves that activate its Ability (for comparison,
Magmajudis made a fantastic one that activates only on super effective moves, taking advantage of the properties of Krookodile's type and the kinds of moves that included - obviously don't take exactly the same route he did, but limiting the Ability to
punishing some actions more than others, even just as broad as "contact moves" rather than "all moves," feels like it would be a lot safer to me). I know that this is a Stamina clone, but raising Defense on a physical tank is also a lot easier to play around than raising Attack on a physical attacker, and the reasons why Stamina could safely activate on every move do not apply.
I recognize that your Cinccino is a special attacker while
PalpitoadChamp's and
ARandomPerson's are physical attackers, and I'm not sure if that's enough for all of you to be content to submit them separately. That said, I will reiterate my usual sentiment that subs that overlap this much - in your case, all three of you have the same type combination and an Ability that halves the damage of a broad category of moves (Fluffy and Fur Coat are slightly different but do overlap quite significantly; Fur Coat is mostly just better) - are detrimental to each other, and I would
really strongly suggest talking over the differences between your subs and coming up with a joint submission that pleases all of you. I have already established PalpitoadChamp's and ARandomPerson as mutually exclusive, depending on which of them makes the required changes; I will allow yours separately from theirs because at least it's also meant to take advantage of moves Cinccino doesn't normally, but the overlap is still striking and I would really encourage you to come to an agreement all together anyway.
zxgzxg has already submitted a Tinted Lens Mega Krookodile, and I suspect that the intentional restraint they showed with their stats was called for; I'm going to disallow this one and ask you to direct any changes you would have them make to them as feedback instead.
I'm a bit concerned that this sort of misses the point of Seismic Scream, to be honest - I would suggest reconsidering it.
The only reason Seismic Scream was even allowed to be, effectively, "a move with a base power" rather than a more conventional effect for an Ability is because its type effectiveness and damage category were both uniquely relevant to its primary purpose - targeting a different set of weaknesses than the main move in a way that made it harder to wall. Opposable Scarf, in turn, uses a STAB move (not a coverage move) at a reduced power, of a type that cannot hit anything super effectively, and of the
same damage category as the moves that are likely to trigger the Ability rather than the opposite - these serve essentially no purpose and have none of Seismic Scream's justifications for defying precedent and having the unusual behavior it did, so I am much less inclined to allow it.
The fact that it adds additional RNG does not help matters, and I really do not want to think about how to make this interact realistically with Tail Slap itself.
This is too many unrelated effects in one Ability for, uh, very questionable flavor reasons and no specific mechanical ones. We also really don't need more rain Megas without strong justifications for how they could fit onto a team, which this does not have. That's gonna be a no.
Yyyeah, as above,
zxgzxg has already submitted a Tinted Lens Mega Krookodile, and I suspect that the intentional restraint they showed with their stats was called for; I'm going to disallow this one and ask you to direct any changes you would have them make to them as feedback instead.
This can have either the Ice type or Technician, but not both - a Pokémon with 143 Speed does not also get to have a 180 BP STAB of one of the best attacking types in the game.
I'm kinda wary of Adaptability on this, on account of its high Speed, Special Attack and Hydro Pump. I don't think I should allow this one, sorry;;
also, not a veto, but I really don't support Drought on Simisear. I think you should think about how it compares to the many other sun Megas we already have before taking that route, and I'm especially concerned by how unfavorably it compares to Mega Charizard Y without being set apart in any interesting way. I don't have any specific advice on how to make it work, but that's because I don't think Drought is a good direction for it at all, I'm afraid;;
I'm gonna veto this for the same reason as the sub by
qways, sorry.
This is Swift Swim but better, so it should just be Swift Swim and I will not allow it to be anything else.
I don't believe this is the kind of Pokémon that warrants an RNG-based Ability in the first place
(see the RNG section of the spoiler at the top of this post), so the paralysis chance is completely extraneous anyway.
This is Soundproof exactly, so it should just be Soundproof and I will not allow it to be anything else. On that note, yet another Soundproof sub is not going to be accepted - please see the feedback I gave to
ARandomPerson and
Double Iron Bash on that front. I will only be accepting
ViZar's unless another Soundproof sub can be
substantially differentiated from his in role, and if you disagree on how to utilize the Ability, please present that as polite feedback to him instead of posting an extraneous competing sub.
I'm concerned by the fact that Hydro Coat is both an incredibly strong stallbreaking Ability and a strictly better version of a lot of other Abilities (Sweet Veil, Pastel Veil, Water Veil, Magma Armor, Limber, Healer...), so I'm going to ask you to pick a more focused effect than this; I can't allow it in its current state.
There is no veto here! I just want to say that while I was writing this post, I casually mentioned to a friend that I wished more people would focus on the "no evil" part of Simisear rather than the "no hearing" part because there was so much more interesting potential and value for nullifying Dark moves than sound moves, so I was really pleasantly pleasantly surprised when I got to yours and you had actually done that (and in a really neat way!). I appreciate this!!
(this one is also sort of
kakaks again) We're sort of running into the same problem the Normal/Fairy squad was having where people kept submitting roughly these same Abilities on Cinccino - I'm trying really hard to mediate all of this without vetoing
too many of them for redundancy
(yours are the fourth and fifth variations on Fur Coat/Fluffy), but both of yours really are quite similar. I'm just going to leave it up to you two to decide how to approach this and whether you're okay with the overlap on account of the different Attack vs Special Attack biases or if you'd rather confer with each other and settle on one you both like - I won't veto either of you for this, but I would really encourage collaborating instead of conflicting here if you're okay with that!
I uh. I actually have no idea if I can do this? I don't think I can
uh
yeah I don't think I can do this regardless of balance because it's not something I'm capable of OTL
That said, I think this would be a pretty
extreme and potentially uncompetitive or broken effect anyway
(? it's really hard to wrap my head around what it would be like to face something like this... which I guess is the point!) - if you're interested in amending it to something more doable and more balanced, I would look to something like
zxgzxg's
Mega Zoroark sub from slate 28 for a more acceptable alternative!
Definitely lower Speed to something lower (~110ish at most) if you want Tough Claws with this Attack, I think.
This is definitely not an appropriate or necessary use of multiple forms, so I'm just not going to allow it.
Hi! Thanks for taking into account the feedback on the Discord! I appreciate that you nerfed the Ability - actually, now that you've nerfed it in other ways, I think it would be fine to leave its HP threshold at 50% like you had before. C:
60% is sort of a weird and unusual number for an effect like this, and I think limiting the type of the moves helps plenty; making the HP threshold just slightly smaller doesn't change much, so I would support putting at 50% if it's alright with you!
We are generally against combined Abilities, so I'm gonna ask you to pick one effect or just do something new rather than Gooey + Fluffy as you have it! On that note, though, several other subs
(too many - I'm trying so hard to mediate people and limit the redundancy as it is) are using Fluffy or Fur Coat as an Ability, so I would lean away from that in general. I think the main selling point of this sub is the type change and some of its movepool additions, so I don't think it's strictly necessary to veto it if Fluffy is the Ability you choose to keep
(although it sort of just becomes a lot like Bewear if you do), but it's still something I don't encourage and it would
really help this to stand out from other subs if you chose something else!
I will require a complete and comprehensive list of all moves you would like to be affected by the Ability or not allow this, as this is already a rather hotly debated category of moves that has come up many times in the past and a lot of people have conflicting visions about it. I can't reasonably allow it if no one even knows what the list you mean is.
I can't allow Dragon Dance on this, sorry;;
(That aside, given you remove it, this sounds kinda cool! Poison Fang is such an interesting and well-chosen move to pair with this effect!)
Aaand we're done!
Submissions will close and voting should begin in 24 hours, and I'll make a compilation of all of the legal entries then! If you've gotten feedback here, it would be best to implement it as soon as possible with that in mind.
(As usual, though: no worries if you can't quite make it by then! If you need to make changes, then as long as you can do that before voting closes
just leave enough time for people to vote for you!, I'll be happy to make the amendments you need!)
/
/
) but this also gives floatzel stab Drain Punch.
Seared Charti: Gives paralysis if the holder is at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Pecha: Poisons the holder if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Rawst: Burns the holder if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Persim: Confuses the holder if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Liechi: Lowers the holders attack by one stage if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Ganlon: Lower's the holders defense by one stage if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Salac: Lower's the holders speed by one stage if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Petaya: Lower's the holders special attack by one stage if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Apicot: Lower's the holders special defense by one stage if they are at or below 1/2 of their maximum HP.
Seared Jaboca: Heals the user by 1/8th of their maximum HP after damaging the holder of this item with a physical move.
Seared Rowap: Heals the user by 1/8th of their maximum HP after damaging the holder of this item with a special move.
Seared Kee: Lower's the holder's defense by one stage after being hit by a physical move.
Seared Maranga: Lower's the holder's special defense by one stage after being hit by a special move.
Seared Custap: Holder moves last in it's priority bracket if they are at or below 1/4th of their maximum HP.
Seared Starf: Lower's a random stat by 2 if the holder is at or below 1/4th of their maximum HP.
Sitrus,
Lum,
Salac.
Shuca,
Magost,
Razz,
Mega Torterra, 
Mega Infernape and 
Mega Empoleon!