-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Megas For All: V4! (Voting - Lickilicky, Togekiss, Dusknoir)
- Thread starter Heavyweapons Mann
- Start date
Forgot to mention that if necessary, some broken megas will be banned to ubers.
We will be doing some nerf slates. To start, we will be doing Guzzlord, Swellow, and Articuno.
Anything can be changed with the proposed nerfs, but it must bear some resemblance to the original form and be reasonable (so no drastic stat changes). Guzzlord will have an ability limit of 4.5 and the others a limit of 4, but Mega Swellow must keep a sound-related ability.
Anything can be changed with the proposed nerfs, but it must bear some resemblance to the original form and be reasonable (so no drastic stat changes). Guzzlord will have an ability limit of 4.5 and the others a limit of 4, but Mega Swellow must keep a sound-related ability.
Well, I created the monster that is Mega Guzzlord, might as well fix it:
Mega Guzzlord
Ability - Beast Boost
Tough Claws
HP - 223
223
Atk - 101
181 (+80)
Def - 53
53 (0)
SpA - 97
107 (+10)
SpD - 53
53 (0)
Spe - 43
53 (+10)
BST - 570
670 (+100)
Megastone
Guzzlordite
Movepool Additions
Outrage, Slack Off
Competitive Analysis
This Mega Guzzlord keeps roughly the old one's power, but at the expense of the monstrous bulk of the original one, as well as a massive part of its Speed. It works almost like Mega Mawile this time, with similar bulk and speed, but without Sword Dance to make up for the improved STAB combo. All in all, a lot easier to revenge kill thanks to the smaller bulk and speed but still something that teams should worry a bit about.
Mega Guzzlord
Ability - Beast Boost
HP - 223
Atk - 101
Def - 53
SpA - 97
SpD - 53
Spe - 43
BST - 570
Megastone
Movepool Additions
Competitive Analysis
Guzzlord @ Guzzlordite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Heavy Slam
- Slack Off / Dragon Claw
OO: Fire Blast
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Heavy Slam
- Slack Off / Dragon Claw
OO: Fire Blast
Swellow-Mega (Nerfed)
Ability: Still Loudspeaker (x1.2 power to Sound moves)
Typing: Still Normal/Flying
Stats:
HP: 60 ----> 60
Attack: 85 ----> 115 (+30)
Defense: 65 ----> 65
Special Attack: 133 ----> 100 (-33)
Special Defense: 60 ----> 60
Speed: 152----> 155 (+3)
Base Stat Total: 555 ----> 555
Movepool Additions: N/A (Focus Blast and Calm Mind removed)
Description: Basically old but with SpA drastically toned down to nerf it, not to mention Fighting Coverage + Calm Mind removed on that side. Still, packing the strongest Boomburst in the game is still nothing to sneeze at, with a SpA just barely beating out Noivern, plus STAB... and Loudspeaker. TLDR still a strong Wallbreaker but is a shadow of its former self.
Ability: Still Loudspeaker (x1.2 power to Sound moves)
Typing: Still Normal/Flying
Stats:
HP: 60 ----> 60
Attack: 85 ----> 115 (+30)
Defense: 65 ----> 65
Special Attack: 133 ----> 100 (-33)
Special Defense: 60 ----> 60
Speed: 152----> 155 (+3)
Base Stat Total: 555 ----> 555
Movepool Additions: N/A (Focus Blast and Calm Mind removed)
Description: Basically old but with SpA drastically toned down to nerf it, not to mention Fighting Coverage + Calm Mind removed on that side. Still, packing the strongest Boomburst in the game is still nothing to sneeze at, with a SpA just barely beating out Noivern, plus STAB... and Loudspeaker. TLDR still a strong Wallbreaker but is a shadow of its former self.
Last edited:
So I'm going to guess that for Articuno the only issue is the ability?
The stats aren't anything special as any defensive potential is ruined by its horrendous defensive typing. It's too slow to sweep even after a CM boost or 2. So the only suggested changes I'll make is the ability.
Absolute Zero: Freezes those who make contact with Normal, Water, Ground, Fairy, Dragon, Grass, Dark, Flying or Fight Moves only. OR the freeze only lasts 1-2 turns, and onkly has a 30% chance to land... or all 3? Or just scrap the ability altogether?
The fact most SE moves don't freeze the user mean
Otherwise I can't see Cuno being too good if its Ability were changed unless there's something I'm missing.
Sure 90/150/120 isn't bad defenses but Avalugg has better physical with 95/184, can use an item and isn't double SR weak.
So is there anything else I'm missing about the Ice Birb? With the changes I propose all of its weaknesses will not be resisted so Flare Blitz, Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Accelerock and Head Smash to your hearts content. You can also U-Turn out without Freezing yourself for some reason.
Not sure this is nerf enough. Taking half the type chart away from Freezability hopefully means sweeper types have a move that can hit it... most do though as I'm sure Rock, Fire and Steel are decently common coverage. Sure it punishes Outragers and Choice users.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
So the Only Articuno change is the ability IMHO.
The stats aren't anything special as any defensive potential is ruined by its horrendous defensive typing. It's too slow to sweep even after a CM boost or 2. So the only suggested changes I'll make is the ability.
Absolute Zero: Freezes those who make contact with Normal, Water, Ground, Fairy, Dragon, Grass, Dark, Flying or Fight Moves only. OR the freeze only lasts 1-2 turns, and onkly has a 30% chance to land... or all 3? Or just scrap the ability altogether?
The fact most SE moves don't freeze the user mean
Otherwise I can't see Cuno being too good if its Ability were changed unless there's something I'm missing.
Sure 90/150/120 isn't bad defenses but Avalugg has better physical with 95/184, can use an item and isn't double SR weak.
So is there anything else I'm missing about the Ice Birb? With the changes I propose all of its weaknesses will not be resisted so Flare Blitz, Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Accelerock and Head Smash to your hearts content. You can also U-Turn out without Freezing yourself for some reason.
Not sure this is nerf enough. Taking half the type chart away from Freezability hopefully means sweeper types have a move that can hit it... most do though as I'm sure Rock, Fire and Steel are decently common coverage. Sure it punishes Outragers and Choice users.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
So the Only Articuno change is the ability IMHO.
That and ideally a new ability not themed around freeze, as it's too uncompetitive.
Wouldn't that be moving away from the main theme of Mega Cuno? We nerf yes but the result should still resemble the old form in a more balanced way.
This is an instance where it's acceptable, because freeze is so uncompetitive.
Mega Guzzlord Nerf:
Ability: Beast Boost -> Adapatibilty
HP: 223
Atk: 101 -> 171 (+70)
Def: 53 -> 83 (+30)
SpA: 97 -> 57 (-40)
SpD: 53 -> 53
Spe: 43 -> 83 (+40)
New Moves: Outrage, Pursuit
Justification: Same power as OG Guzzlord with STABs, but significantly weaker coverage and lower physical bulk and speed tier. This means that Guzz has a tougher time bursting through opponents that resist its STAB combo and it isn't as hard to kill physically as the old one was. Should be more manageable now.
Mega Swellow
Ability: Loudspeaker (Sound-based moves become Physical and are boosted 1.2x)
Typing: Normal/Flying
Stats: 60/135(+50)/60/95(+20)/60(+10)/145(+20)
Movepool Additions: Flare Blitz
Description: This neuters its offensive presence by giving it much weaker coverage against Rock and Steel-types, toning down its offensive stats, forcing it to use coverage that gives it recoil, and removing its ability to setup.
Mega Articuno
Ability: Magic Guard
Typing: Ice/Flying
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Description: Articuno is now much more competitive. It doesn't fear rocks and can hit Steel-types better, although its defensive typing and offensive presence still are mediocre.
Mega Guzzlord
Ability: Hustle
Typing: Dark/Dragon
Stats: 223/127(+26)/53/107(+10)/53/107(+64)
Movepool Additions: Pursuit, Superpower
Description: Mega Guzzlord is back to its original bulk, making it easier to revenge kill. Additionally, its huge attack is now siphoned into speed so that it can outspeed base 100s. It's still outsped by other threats like Keldeo and Kartana, however.
Ability: Loudspeaker (Sound-based moves become Physical and are boosted 1.2x)
Typing: Normal/Flying
Stats: 60/135(+50)/60/95(+20)/60(+10)/145(+20)
Movepool Additions: Flare Blitz
Description: This neuters its offensive presence by giving it much weaker coverage against Rock and Steel-types, toning down its offensive stats, forcing it to use coverage that gives it recoil, and removing its ability to setup.
Mega Articuno
Ability: Magic Guard
Typing: Ice/Flying
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Description: Articuno is now much more competitive. It doesn't fear rocks and can hit Steel-types better, although its defensive typing and offensive presence still are mediocre.
Mega Guzzlord
Ability: Hustle
Typing: Dark/Dragon
Stats: 223/127(+26)/53/107(+10)/53/107(+64)
Movepool Additions: Pursuit, Superpower
Description: Mega Guzzlord is back to its original bulk, making it easier to revenge kill. Additionally, its huge attack is now siphoned into speed so that it can outspeed base 100s. It's still outsped by other threats like Keldeo and Kartana, however.
It is the latter, but the submissions for nerfs are in the same format.
Last edited:
Mega Swellow
Ability: Song And Dance (Sound-based and dance moves gain +1 priority)
Typing: Normal/Flying
Stats: 60/95 (+ 10)/65 (+ 5)/113 (+ 38)/60 (+ 10)/162 (+ 37)
Movepool Additions: N/A
Description: This skews it's stats and ability away from special attack and towards speed while throwing away some points on attack in order to make its attacks faster but less unbearable.
Mega Articuno
Ability: Winter Wonderland (Sets Hail and Aurora Veil on entry)
Typing: Ice/Flying
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Aurora Beam, Haze
Description: Another unique and powerful ice themed ability, but without the ridiculousness of freezing. In addition, it cannot hold light clay and is quad weak to rocks, reducing the power of its ability.
Mega Guzzlord
Ability: Strong Jaw
Typing: Dark/Dragon
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Poison Fang, Fire Fang
Description: It's damage output is now limited to attacks most appropriate for the glutinous. In return, it can now hurt fairies.
Ability: Song And Dance (Sound-based and dance moves gain +1 priority)
Typing: Normal/Flying
Stats: 60/95 (+ 10)/65 (+ 5)/113 (+ 38)/60 (+ 10)/162 (+ 37)
Movepool Additions: N/A
Description: This skews it's stats and ability away from special attack and towards speed while throwing away some points on attack in order to make its attacks faster but less unbearable.
Mega Articuno
Ability: Winter Wonderland (Sets Hail and Aurora Veil on entry)
Typing: Ice/Flying
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Aurora Beam, Haze
Description: Another unique and powerful ice themed ability, but without the ridiculousness of freezing. In addition, it cannot hold light clay and is quad weak to rocks, reducing the power of its ability.
Mega Guzzlord
Ability: Strong Jaw
Typing: Dark/Dragon
Stats: same as before
Movepool Additions: Poison Fang, Fire Fang
Description: It's damage output is now limited to attacks most appropriate for the glutinous. In return, it can now hurt fairies.
Strong Jaw Poison Fang is weaker than Poison Jab (plus Guzzlord already has the superior 120 BP Heavy Slam for fairies) and for Magearna Earthquake hits harder than Strong Jaw Fire Fang so idk what you’re on about with Guzzlord just now being able to hit fairies
Oh right. It gets poison jab. Still, this is a nerfing, so it still works.
Poison Fang has good utility because of potential Toxic poison. Also, with Strong Jaw it isn’t much weaker than Poison Jab, along with a negligible power difference between Strong Jaw Fire Fang and EQ.
Last edited:
Regardless, Poison Jab was already outclassed by Heavy Slam and 120 BP is way more appealing on a wallbreaker compared to 75 BP and Toxic effect
Also, feel free to throw out if more megas need to be nerfed.
Guzzlord: Leonard, Lyd, Sereg
Articuno: anaconja
Articuno: anaconja
Last edited:
Guzzlord: Leonard, Anaconja, Lyd (not a fan of Sereg's nor Lyd's because they either completely gut power (sereg, like if ur way weaker than mega Sharpedo that's no good) or completely gut bulk and speed (lyd) and both render him a pretty unviable mega, idk if I'm breaking a self voting rule here but for balance sake's these are my votes)
You are breaking a self-voting rule.