XY Ubers Mega Mawile strikes back! Trick Room Offense | Peaked #3

[Flexxen]

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You really think you put a stop to my rampage? I'm just getting started ~

Introduction​

First off, this is my first RMT and I don’t consider myself one of the best or most experienced Ubers players, so any kind of suggestions and constructive criticism are highly appreciated.
I’ve been using MegaMawile a lot before it finally got banned from OU and it was really fun to use, especially on Trick Room, which I sadly only got to try out a couple of days before the ban. However, when I was thinking about changing my Palkia’s moveset, I noticed that it actually gets Trick Room. After seeing Dialga learns it as well, I was determined to build a decent TR team for Ubers featuring Mega Mawile.
Dialga and Palkia already made things much easier for building a Trick Room team, because almost all TR setters outside of Ubers are either Psychic or Ghost types, which are both weak to Dark, leaving you very vulnerable to Yveltal, a Mon which usually carries Taunt as well. Dialga and Palkia on the other hand both have defensive typing anyone building a TR team outside of Ubers can only dream of. Plus, despite both being Dragons they have different weaknesses, each only two of them, good bulk and power.

Team Building process​

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As I’ve explained in the introduction, this team started out with Dialga and Palkia as bulky TR setters and Mega Mawile as sweeper. Looking through the slower and powerful attackers of the Uber Tier, which would also synergize well with these 3, I immediately saw Ho-Oh. With its base 90 speed, great special bulk, amazing power and immunity/resistance to 4(!) of the 6 weaknesses of my first 3 Pokemon, using Ho-Oh was basically a must.

After already having 4 of my 6 members I was looking at what my team still really needs and what it was weak to. I realized that I was lacking a reliable check to E-Killer and Mega Mewtwo X, which can basically fuck up all of these 4 with Low Kick, Stone Edge and EQ, plus I needed a Defog user for Ho-Oh. Giratina fulfilled all of these criteria, so I decided to make it the 5th member. Since both Mawile and Dialga are weak to ground, I decided to use Giratina-O to have an other ground immunity and better offensive presence.

Finding the last member took me the longest because I kept trying to find a 3rd TR user but I couldn’t really find one I could comfortably use in Ubers. I thought about Cresselia, Porygon 2 and Diancie, which could also help against Ho-Oh but I couldn’t really bring myself to give them a spot on the team. So instead I decided to use a 3rd slow sweeper. Since both Ho-Oh and Mawile are physical attackers, I wanted a special attacker this time and Kyogre, which also has “only” base 90 speed, fit the bill and the opportunity to run Specs (<3) over Scarf, because of TR was just too good to pass up.

Based on the suggestions in this thread I later replaced Giratina-O with Arceus-Ghost as my Defog user and main E-Killer check because of the possibility to outspeed and burn strong physical threats to my team like Rayquaza, which could punch some big holes or even sweep my previous team. An other thing it has over Giratina-O is its reliable recovery.

The Team​

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe / 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Spacial Rend​

One of my two TR setters and my main Kyogre switch-in. Without AV/SpDef investment and any form of recovery, Palkia doesn’t switch into Kyogre as comfortably as other variants do but with 4 of my Pokemon resisting water and two of them resisting electric as well, I didn’t consider Kyogre that much of a threat but of course you always have to be careful against that specs set. I decided to use a more offensive spread and Lustrous Orb to abuse Palkia's great dual STABs and power even further. With its great typing, coverage and power, you usually are able to find an opportunity to switch Palkia at some point of the match and set up TR on a forced switch or a Pokemon not really threatening it. Fire Blasts rounds up the coverage of this set (credit for pointing out Fire Blast's superior usefulness goes to justinjiaxinghu) allowing Palkia to put in a lot of work against opposing teams once TR is up. However going on all-out-attacking mode with Palkia is something you should only do with caution, since this team only has 2 TR setters and Palkia setting up TR could turn out to be a win condition or even not at all if the opponent still has a healthy Kyogre since Palkia is by far the best option to take care of it.
I'm thinking about changing Palkia's spread or set though because quite a few times it went down too early and too easily as I'd like it to. Investing more EVs in Special Defense and replacing Fire Blast with Rest and the Lustrous Orb with a Chesto Berry is probably something I'll try out.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD or 248 HP / 32 Atk / 228 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch​

The latest member of the Uber Tier and one of my 3 sweepers. Everybody knows and fears Mega Mawile for its incredibly hard hitting attacks and with TR up this little fairy can run through entire teams. I decided not to use SD because it costs me a valuable turn of TR and the many powerful attackers in Ubers making it hard to set it up in the first place. Iron Head obliterates Xerneas and other fairies and doesn't miss, Play Rough hits the many Dragon types in Ubers, Rock Slide (got tired of Stone Misses lol) destroys Ho-Oh, which is a big threat to my team and something which might very well tend to switch in on Mawile since it resists both of its STABs. Predicting this switch correctly and hitting the Rock Slide on Ho-Oh is amazing xD Last but not least Sucker Punch to ensure Mawile is not too dependent on Trick Room and very useful priority to finish off weakened Mons.
There are two possible spreads for Mawile, the standard max HP and max Attack spread maximizing its power and damage output and a more specially defensive orientated spread allowing Mawile to fare better against special attackers and act as a secondary GeoXern check since Ho-Oh can only check it with Rocks off the field. The con of this spread is that it doesn't weaken the common switch-ins to Mawile as much as the max attack spread does and not having a safe 2HKO on bulky Arceus/E-Killers but it does still get its key KOs. On the suspect ladder I recommend the second spread though considering the amount of HO teams with a GeoXern.

Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 3 Spe / 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room​

Dialga is my second TR setter as well as my SR setter and usually the Pokemon I lead of with. I decided to use standard defensive Dialga to make setting up Rocks and TR as easy as possible. Dialga is basically the backbone of this team, with its great bulk and many useful resistances it is able to take plenty of hits for the other team members and set up TR (and SR if given the opportunity) consistently throughout the match. The most threatening opponents for Dialga are bulky ground types like Lando-T and Groudon, which also outspeed Dialga and threaten it with a super-effective EQ, so burning these two with Ghostceus is highly recommended, it makes Dialga's job of setting up TR throughout the match way easier.
Fire Blast and Draco Meteor give me decent coverage and therefore good ways to dish out some damage as well, which is also part of the reason why Dialga can be pretty difficult to take down. Fire Blast is mainly for Scizor (and Ferro), which might try to remove my rocks or hit me with Superpower. I still have 3 Speed IVs to have the option to nail Scizor immediately with a Fire Blast in case it comes in without wasting Trick Room turns or risking a speed tie.​

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
​

Ho-oh is my second sweeper and main GeoXern-Check. To check it as safely as possible I'm using 60 SpDef EVs to ensure I always live a +2 Thunder from any version of GeoXern.
Ho-Oh is also a very vital and important member of this team, it sponges up many special attacks, Will-O-Wisps and Dark Voids while dishing out massive damage and spreading burns with Sacred Fire and thanks to Regenerator it is able to do its job very consistently if I manage to keep Rocks off my side of the field. The main reason why I'm using Choice Band is to have a sleep fodder for Darkrai and maximize the damage output although LO + Roost is also an option I've been considering since the ability to switch moves can really ease some decisions and make me less prediction-reliant.
But still, CB Ho-Oh is already very difficult to switch into but with Trick Room it gets even harder, since Pokemon, which could outspeed it and threaten Ho-Oh with a super-effective attack, now have to take two CB boosted hits. Switching Ho-Oh in isn’t difficult at all thanks to its amazing special bulk and team synergy with Mawile and Dialga, as I already mentioned in the introduction.
Although Ho-Oh's role was supposed to be running through teams under TR, I've been using it the most early to mid-game taking advantage of its resistances/immunities, bulk and the ability to soften up opposing teams. This were Ho-Oh does a great job for even without TR and its lack of speed. Plus while doing so it is usually still able to maintain its health thanks to Regenerator, which is very important in case the opponent still has his GeoXern in the back, waiting for an opportunity to sweep.

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
​

Ghostceus is basically the glue-Mon of this team, providing me with a much needed physically defensive wall, Defog user for Ho-Oh and check to threatening physical attackers with its fast Will-O-Wisp.
Judgement is a good and reliable way to deal some respectable damage and Recover is the reliable recovery any defensive/Support Mon wants to have.
60 Speed Evs allow me to always outspeed Jolly Rayquaza and other base 95 Speed Mons as well as anything with up to base 110 speed and no +Speed-nature.
The amount of support Ghostceus provides for this team can't really be stressed out enough, it saved me many times by stalling out Mons I was expecting to loose against or getting off a burn or Defog, which saved me the game.
However, this amount of support also means Ghostceus should be played carefully, letting one opposing Mon weaken it could allow E-Killer or any other physical attacker Ghostceus is supposed to check to set up a sweep later on in the game. If possible letting Ghostceus hit by a burn or Toxic should be avoided as well, since that really cuts down its longlivity as well as the possibility to switch in when needed and the opportunity to Defog away Rocks for Ho-Oh and the rest of the team. An other problem I have encountered is not being able to hit E-Killer for any damage besides burning it, which means I either have to switch to Kyogre to phaze or Mawile to finish it off or stay in and watch it set up to +6, which means that either way something has to take quite some damage. Any suggestions to avoid this would be appreciated :]
Credit for this set also goes to Level 56

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 208 HP / 56 Def / 244 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Water Spout

or

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Rest ​

The odd HP and Def investments of these sets are to ensure that I don’t get OHKO’d by Banded Ho-Oh's Brave Bird at full health, which actually happened to me when I was just using max HP lol. Both of these Kyogre sets are good options for this team with different advantages.

The defensive set does a great job at handling Palkia, which is a big threat to this team otherwise, other special attackers and sponging up status. Combined with Ghostceus it forms a really solid defensive core, which is able to keep an impressive amount of opposing Mons at bay. Rain boosted Scald is what makes this set so awesome IMO, Scald is already a great move for any defensive Mon and for Kyogre with its rain and very impressive special bulk it applies even more and once Scald gets the burn only very few Mons are able to make it past Kyogre. Roar for phazing opposing set-uppers can also be very useful, especially for CM-Arceus variants and Rest-Talk provides semi-reliable recovery, probably the only real con of this set. Credit for this set goes to Level 56

SpecsKyogre on the other hand is pretty much guaranteed to get a kill with its stupidly powerful Water Spout/Hydro Pump (which I use over Surf for the power since I can't always expect to get to use Water Spout on such a slow a Mon) if I manage to get it in safely with TR up. Just like Ho-Oh, Kyogre isn't too reliant on TR support either, especially if I didn't reveal TR yet, because it makes many opponents fear being outsped (Kyogre usually does run max speed or even a Scarf afterall) and killed thus forcing a lot switches by basically bluffing a fast Kyogre. Also, if it is unreasonable for the opponent to stay in (if he has a bad match-up and/or a Mon he still needs like Groudon for example), predicting the switch isn’t difficult at all and thanks to the Specs and max SpAttack pretty much every switch-in is hit for huge damage, especially if I predict the switch-in correctly. Many variants of the most common Kyogre switch-in, Palkia, is for example flat-out 2HKO'd on the switch if I get the paralysis with Thunder.
With its HP investment Kyogre is also fairly bulky, which allows it to take some hits if neccessary and can make it quite difficult to revenge-kill Kyogre, especially during TR. It also is able to put in a lot of work against opposing stall teams, without it the team lacks quite a bit of wall and stall-breaking prowess.

Other Options
Replacing Ho-Oh with:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn / Knock Off
- Toxic​

Lando-T also is a good addition to the team by checking opposing Ho-Oh, probably the biggest threat to this team and other physical threats in general, which is something Ghostceus mostly has to do on its own otherwise. It also has great defensive synergy with Palkia and Dialga, resisting the latter's fighting weakness and being immune to ground attacks while the other can take the water and ice-type attacks threatening Lando-T. Combined with Ghostceus these 4 form a really good defensive core, which allows me to deal with opposing threats more reliably and set up TR more consistently throughout the match.
For what I wanted to use Lando-T on my team, a physically defensive spread seemed the best option to me.
Good old EdgeQuake gives me a powerful STAB move and good coverage ensuring Lando-T's offensive presence even with little attack investment. U-Turn is what I prefer over Knock Off (although that's a solid option as well) because it allows me to grab momentum against the plenty of special attackers which want to come in on Lando-T. Toxic is also very useful to slowly but surely writtle down opposing Mons which want to Defog, set up or switch in on Lando-T.
However, it should be noted that without Ho-Oh, Xerneas is far more threatening to this team, so using the more specially defense spread on MegaMawile is basically a must since it is the last reliable way of dealing with Xerneas this team has at its disposal.
Credit for this suggestion goes to haxiom

Threats

Ho-Oh is the biggest threat to any version of this team without Lando-T, literally nothing on my team wants to switch in and not having anything to prevent my opponent from using Defog doesn’t help either.
Especially Sub-Roost-varaints are incredibly difficult to deal with and put a huge amount of pressure on this team forcing me to play very carefully without risking team members I still need for other threats.
Keeping rocks up by pressuring your opponent and using TR properly is the key to eventually catch Ho-Oh with either Kyogre or Palkia or maybe even with Mawile >:-)

Palkia can also be a threat, although this only applies for the versions without SpDefKyogre, which deals pretty well with Palkia. Without it, my only more or less safe switch-in to Palkia is Dialga, which can take a hit and either set up a TR or attempt to take it out with a Draco but once Dialga is worn down and I run out of TR turns it can be troublesome. Ho-Oh and SpecsKyogre can also take a hit from Palkia but only at full health.

I also lack a good answer for (good) evasion BP teams since I made almost all my mons as slow as possible, which means one boost is pretty much guaranteed for them.

Status in general and teams which mostly rely on it, like many Stall teams, can be difficult to deal with as well, since my team is pretty weak to status. I have no cleric and no/only one Rest user, so besides Mawile's and Dialga's immunity to Toxic and Ho-Oh's immunity to Will-o-Wisp I don't have anything to dodge status. SpDefKyogre eases the trouble this team has with status but on the expense of stall/wallbreaking prowess.


Conclusion

I started trying out this team basically just for fun and with no expectations but it ended up working far better as I thought it would. But I'm glad it worked out so well, since Trick Room has always been one of my favourite playstyles although it's not so easy to play and prediction-reliant at times.

I've been playing with this team for quite some time now, pretty extensively on the ladder as you can see from my ladder rank and also to get the requirements for the Shadow Tag suspect test, so I'll leave some more explaination and tips on how to use this team for anyone who is interested or might want to try this team out.

Since your opponent will most likely always be able to go first, you'll have to play carefully and think about which team member can take a hit and which TR setter and sweeper you need to keep at good enough amount of health to get past your opponent's team. Also, knowing (or checking if you're not 100% sure) when TR is neccassary and when not is a very vital part of this playstyle, using TR against an opponent with slower Mons on his/her team can easily backfire although the new Showdown feature of showing the speed range of opposing Pokemon saves quite some time there :D
Also, this team isn’t immediately recognized as a TR team, thus allowing you to catch opponents completely off guard and turn the tides of the battle with the right timing.
An other advantage is that this team isn’t overly reliant on TR, against HO teams with many priority users, refraining from using TR at all and playing the take-a-hit-and-KO-back-game instead is also an option.

That’s everything I have to say about this team for now, have fun using it if you want to and like I already said any kind of advice is appreciated :]


Ladder Proof:

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Suspect ladder:

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peak on the suspect ladder was somewhere between #10 and #12, if anyone cares lol

Importable:

Original Team:

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Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Toxic
- Hydro Pump
- Spacial Rend

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 3 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Tail
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 208 HP / 56 Def / 244 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Water Spout

Changed Team:
(Note: This version has SpDefKyogre and Ho-Oh, don't forget to change the sets/Mons if you want to use Lando-T or SpecsKyogre)

Hide

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Spacial Rend

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 3 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

 

[Level 56]

Hello there, your team looks decent and I like the way the team is built, but there are still some VERY important changes you can make, so I'll list them here.

Firstly, since all of your mons are very slow, rayquaza can sweep the entire team if it sets up as rayquaza will be faster than all of your mons so in this case I suggest you to use ghostceus over giratina, defensive ghostceus is faster than rayquaza and can burn it, its also a nice ekiller check (gira can check it too but it loses to rayquaza) use these evs on ghostceus 252 hp, 196 def, 60 speed with timid nature. With this speed you can outspeed jolly rayquaza and can safely burn it before it starts causing damage.

Moveset:

Judgment
Will-o-wisp
Defog
Recover

Secondly, as you said above that ho-oh is your geomancy xerneas check,

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 364-430 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

With these evs xerneas still has a 25% chance to ohko ho-oh with thunder and if that happens it will go on to sweep the whole team so for this situation use these evs, 252 hp, 196 atk, 60 sp def with adamant nature.

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-412 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And lastly, the PALKIA weakness looks very dangerous for your team, so i suggest you to make another version of this team with specially defensive kyogre instead of specs kyogre. Specially defensive kyogre does a great job at handling special attacking mons such as yveltal, palkia, etc. Use these evs 252 p and 252 sp def with calm nature.

Moveset:
Scald
Roar
Sleep talk
Rest


Good team and good luck :)

 

[tutterydiglett]

Hi Flexxen this is a pretty fun and good team. One nitpick thing I see is Toxic on Palkia???? I really don't understand why you have that. Sure, it may be a last ditch attempt to stop a sweeper, but I think doing more damage is more important. You might wanna use Fire Blast to donk Ferrothorn's who like to come in on you. I know you said you want to stop "possible" threats, but Toxic doesn't really do that effectively.

And as Level 56 said, Rayquaza is a huge-ass threat to your team. I suggest Fairyceus to stop it. Fairyceus resists its Dragon-type STAB and can tank it's other moves pretty well. Judgement also provides clean damage. It's a good replacement over Giratina-O, as it provides Will-o-Wisp support and Defog support. It also destroys MMX.

Hide

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Recover

 

[Level 56]

Hi Flexxen this is a pretty fun and good team. One nitpick thing I see is Toxic on Palkia???? I really don't understand why you have that. Sure, it may be a last ditch attempt to stop a sweeper, but I think doing more damage is more important. You might wanna use Fire Blast to donk Ferrothorn's who like to come in on you. I know you said you want to stop "possible" threats, but Toxic doesn't really do that effectively.

And as Level 56 said, Rayquaza is a huge-ass threat to your team. I suggest Fairyceus to stop it. Fairyceus resists its Dragon-type STAB and can tank it's other moves pretty well. Judgement also provides clean damage. It's a good replacement over Giratina-O, as it provides Will-o-Wisp support and Defog support. It also destroys MMX.

Hide

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Recover

V-create will hit even harder than dragon claw (which fairyceus resists) because of the massive attack. Secondly, fairyceus gives ho-oh free switch ins (ho-oh is this team biggest weakness) and if ho-oh is the sub+roost life orb one, its gonna make some big holes In the team as fairyceus's judgment is too weak to break sub. Where as ghostceus is better in this situation. And lastly ghostceus is better than fairyceus at checking ekiller.

And yeah as justin said make that change on palkia fire blast > toxic.

 

[Flexxen]

Hello there, your team looks decent and I like the way the team is built, but there are still some VERY important changes you can make, so I'll list them here.

Firstly, since all of your mons are very slow, rayquaza can sweep the entire team if it sets up as rayquaza will be faster than all of your mons so in this case I suggest you to use ghostceus over giratina, defensive ghostceus is faster than rayquaza and can burn it, its also a nice ekiller check (gira can check it too but it loses to rayquaza) use these evs on ghostceus 252 hp, 196 def, 60 speed with timid nature. With this speed you can outspeed jolly rayquaza and can safely burn it before it starts causing damage.

Moveset:

Judgment
Will-o-wisp
Defog
Recover

Secondly, as you said above that ho-oh is your geomancy xerneas check,

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 364-430 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

With these evs xerneas still has a 25% chance to ohko ho-oh with thunder and if that happens it will go on to sweep the whole team so for this situation use these evs, 252 hp, 196 atk, 60 sp def with adamant nature.

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-412 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And lastly, the PALKIA weakness looks very dangerous for your team, so i suggest you to make another version of this team with specially defensive kyogre instead of specs kyogre. Specially defensive kyogre does a great job at handling special attacking mons such as yveltal, palkia, etc. Use these evs 252 p and 252 sp def with calm nature.

Moveset:
Scald
Roar
Sleep talk
Rest


Good team and good luck :)

Thanks for all of these suggestions, really appreciate it. I definetely agree with Ghostceus > Giratina and the change to Ho-Oh's spread, not sure how I managed to forget taking Xerneas' Thunder into account -.-

Fortunately I didn't encounter any Rayquaza so far but yh once it sets up a SD before I can use Trick Room it's basically gg. The only thing I'll miss is Giratina's ability to phaze out, E-Killer (and Rayquaza to an extent) carrying Lum berry can be quite problematic since Ghostceus will be 2HKO'd by E-Killer's Shadow Claw if I switch in on a SD and the Lum Berry cures the burn.
On the other hand Ghostceus also gives me the option to run a 3rd TR user, although not having Recover (the other 3 moves are pretty much mandatory) would kinda suck.

SpDefKyogre seems to fit quite nicely on the team as well, I'm definetely going to try this out but I'll really miss SpecsOgre spamming Hydro Pump/Water Spout with TR up lol.


@justinjihaxinghu

Thanks for your suggestions as well!

I'm still a bit on the fence about Fire Blast > Toxic, up until now I've never been in the situation where wished I had Fire Blast but Toxic wasn't really useful either, I think the only times I used it was against Support Arceus, so I think I'm gonna make that change for now as well.

As for Fairyceus, I agree that it would be great against Rayquaza but I also have to agree with Level 56, its weakness to the much more common Ho-Oh makes Ghostceus look like the better option.

 

[haxiom]

Hey Flexxen,

Nice team you got here. I'm not a huge fan of full TR teams in general though, as it is a huge burden to have to get TR up without the opponent getting momentum early and punishing you for it, but that aside, this team is fairly decent- very unique as well which is a plus. Some other people have already got around to rating this team, so here we go. I do want to point out that Rayquaza gets minimal setup opportunities, as everything either hits it ridiculously hard or phazes/burns/TR or something like that, and most setup chances will come because of the choiced mons. The much larger weaknesses are the ones you pointed out- Ho-Oh and Palkia, both of which can punch holes and defeat this team with relative ease.

I agree with Level 56's suggestion of Ghostceus, as it doesn't really make you weaker to Ekiller, as Giratina-O has the same issue with Lum Ekiller as you generally will go for the burn first as opposed to the phaze anyways. In fact, Ghostceus is even going to help versus Palkia in conjunction with Dialga, as Palkia can be stalled out by Recover on a neutral Arceus forme. I would run a different spread though, one of 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spd or something similar to this as it enables you to outpace Palkia while still being very bulky as well. You could also creep to Adamant Ekiller if you wanted though. In making this change, you end up weaker to certain things such as Blaziken in the process, which is why in addition to this suggestion, I would consider Landorus-T over Ho-Oh. This change will give you a decent Ho-Oh check, Blaziken check, and general check to physical mons. You do lose stallbreaking prowess though, so I would keep SpecsOgre as it currently is.

By the way, I think it is probably more likely that you will be out of TR in a Ghostceus v Palkia situation. Lando-T could run a defensive set or an offensive one, depending on if you want more power and for it to pose more of an offensive threat, or defensive if you find yourself needing to switch in a lot. Experiment!

OPTIMIZATION:

Palkia- Fire Blast > Toxic, as Toxic is not as useful as Fire Blast on offensive Palkia

Give 0 Attack IVs to all pokemon that do not have physical attacks, as this minimizes potential confusion or Foul Play damage.


Good luck!

 

[Flexxen]

Hey haxiom, thanks for your rate as well!

I've been trying out Ghostceus and so far it's doing great and you're right it really helps out against Palkia, especially if I manage to hit it with a Will-o-Wisp on the switch. Your suggestion about speed-creeping Palkia also looks pretty good, I'm definetely gonna give this a shot.

Lando-T seems to fit nicely on this team but I'm really having a hard time removing Ho-Oh from the team because it saved my ass plenty of times, if I had to name the MVP of this team it would most likely be Ho-Oh. On the other hand Lando-T, aside from being a great mon in Ubers already, has great synergy with Dialga, since both of them cover each others weaknesses. Combined with Ghostceus this would give me a really solid defensive core, making it much easier to set up TR but with less brute offensive power than the original team. I think I'm going to try out playing with both a Lando-T and a non-Lando-T version of this team to see which one of these versions will do better.

Also thanks for the reminder with the 0 Attack IVs, I wonder when I'll stop forgetting about this lol

I currently use Fire Blast on my Palkia, but I've been thinking about replacing Fire Blast with Rest and possibly the Lustrous Orb with a Chesto Berry to increase Palkia's longlivity, which would certainly help Palkia to set up TR more consistently throughout the match but obviously on the expense of its offensive presence. Any thoughts and opinions on this idea are of course also welcome.

 

[Flexxen]

So, after trying out Lando-T over Ho-Oh with SpecsOgre and no Lando-T with both SpecsOgre and SpDefOgre, I've reached some conclusions.
First off, all 3 versions of this team are good and there wasn't really one where I had significantly more trouble compared to the others. However each of them has their own respective advantages and disadvantages.

With Lando-T Ho-Oh is much easier to deal with but without a Ho-Oh on my own team, Xerneas can become quite problematic, especially if it is able to set up a Geomancy on Arceus, Kyogre (if locked into Ice Beam or Thunder) or Lando-T. Since I don't really have anything capable of phazing or avoiding a KO from a +2 +252 Xerneas in my team (Mawile would have to use 164 EVs in SpDef to avoid a OHKO from Focus Blast/HP Fire at full HP and 232 with SR up), I have to play very carefully to prevent opposing Xerneas from setting up on the wrong mons. Palkia and Dialga are more or less fine because I can TR on the Geomancy. With both Ho-Oh and Mawile however I've usually been fairly safe against Xerneas.

SpDefKyogre was also a great addition to the team, it did a good job on dealing with special attackers, especially Palkia and Yveltal to an extent. However the absence of SpecsOgre left me pretty vulnerable to stall teams, since my team lacks a dedicated stall breaker as well as a cleric or even a Taunt user. Ho-Oh and Palkia have a hard time breaking through stall teams on their own, since these teams are usually prepared for these kind of threats and Mawile can't really get past bulky steel types, like Ferro, Scizor or Heatran. SpecsKyogre however is able to open up holes in opposing stall teams, which makes it far easier for the rest of my team to break through eventually, as you can see in this replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-163931458

tldr: By picking one of these variants of this team you also pick the biggest threat to it, with Lando-T it's Xerneas and Palkia, with SpDefOgre it's Ho-oh and stall and with SpecsOgre it's Ho-Oh as well as (mainly) Palkia and other special attackers.

One other change I made was Rock Slide over Stone Edge on Mawile for better accuracy and I intend to stick with Fire Blast on Palkia and I have to agree it's way better than Toxic, not sure what I was thinking when I put this on an offensive Palkia lol.

Once again, thanks for everyone helping me out with these really good suggestions and if anyone is able to come up with a way to cover up the weaknesses I've encountered, feel free to let me know!

 

[killbuzzer]

I suggest that you add a Pokemon with some speed so that you aren't always relying on trick room.

 

[haxiom]

With Lando-T Ho-Oh is much easier to deal with but without a Ho-Oh on my own team, Xerneas can become quite problematic, especially if it is able to set up a Geomancy on Arceus, Kyogre (if locked into Ice Beam or Thunder) or Lando-T. Since I don't really have anything capable of phazing or avoiding a KO from a +2 +252 Xerneas in my team (Mawile would have to use 164 EVs in SpDef to avoid a OHKO from Focus Blast/HP Fire at full HP and 232 with SR up), I have to play very carefully to prevent opposing Xerneas from setting up on the wrong mons. Palkia and Dialga are more or less fine because I can TR on the Geomancy. With both Ho-Oh and Mawile however I've usually been fairly safe against Xerneas.

Yeah I can see that, I didn't really notice the spread but in Ubers Mawile tends to run much more SDef investment.

 

[Flexxen]

I guess on the Lando-T version I pretty much have to use this spread but I think the additional SpDef should be quite helpful, especially when I switch Mawile into Yveltal, which can easily happen since my Ghostceus using Defog gives Yveltal a free switch. So yeah, makes sense for MegaMawile to run SpDef in Ubers because it still gets its key KOs even with little attack investment, I'll put it as an alternative spread on the OP.

I suggest that you add a Pokemon with some speed so that you aren't always relying on trick room.

With Ghostceus I already put a member with speed investment on my team to allow me to outspeed some important threats and cripple them with a burn. To be honest I don't see space for more than one "speedy" member on a team relying on TR or at least on mine. Also, both Ho-Oh and Kyogre can put in work even without TR up since they're both fairly bulky and especially Kyogre is almost always expected to run a lot of speed investment or even a scarf, which makes many opponents want to switch out because they're afraid of being outsped and killed. Plus Mawile also has priority, so it's not useless outside of TR either. Relying on TR can be risky but that's a risk you have to take when you're want to play this playstyle.

 

[killbuzzer]

Ookay. With Kyogre, I think running one water type move is good enough. Otherwise, just run roar/scald/toxic

 

[Flexxen]

Ookay. With Kyogre, I think running one water type move is good enough. Otherwise, just run roar/scald/toxic

On SpecsKyogre 2 water moves are basically a must, Water Spout has only 8 PP, which isn't much at all with all these Pressure mons running around in Ubers. Just check out the replay I posted above, my opponent succeeded in stalling me out of Water Spout PP there.
Also, in case I'm unable to set up TR I usually won't even get to use Water Spout because I'll get outsped and am forced to take a hit, which is the reason why I'm running Hydro Pump over Surf, the former is at least somewhat close to Water Spout's power.
On defensive Kyogre I already run only Scald, so there isn't really anything left to say on this one.

 

[Flexxen]

Final bump for this, now that I finished the big re-write of the OP I've been wanting to do for so long.

Suggestions on the problems I have encountered with Ghostceus against E-Killer and on the Palkia set are of course still appreciated but as soon as ORAS is out, I'll have to retire this team anyways or I'll get rekt by every PrimalGroudon lol.
So yeah, the next few weeks are pretty much last chance to use this team if anyone feels like trying it out or improve it one last time in case it's possible, if not then that's just as good as it can get, which is fine by me as well.