Meet Team Monkeyfish

[Agent Gibbs]

Overview:

I don't post many RMTs (in fact, this is my first one on Smogon), but I figured I'd go ahead and try to get some advice on this one since it's one of my favorite teams I've ever used in 5th Gen. The team is "Team Monkeyfish," and no, there's no real rhyme or reason behind the name. To give a quick background behind this team, it's actually pretty old, created during the latter months of BW1. The team was originally Hydreigon / Heatran / Jirachi / Terrakion / Gyarados / Gliscor, and I thought it up in a few seconds just to make a point in a discussion about team synergy. I looked back later and thought that those Pokemon might make a decent team, and so I tossed a few sets onto them and tried it out. The team changed over time and became one of the most reliable teams I ever used during the BW1 era. I made an updated version for BW2, but I hadn't really used it all that much until recently.

As far as ladder experience goes, this team has had a decent record I suppose. An older version got me to #10 on the OU ladder during the Deoxys-S suspect era. More recently, I attempted to get voting requirements with the team under the alt "Rule 9" ("Always carry a knife"), but after my ACRE rating randomly dropped from 2115 to 1883 after my 15th win (and just before my deviation was about to drop below 100), I got frustrated and sorta gave up on notable ladder peaks. I did, however, get a screenshot of my rating just before my win streak ended, which would put me at around #80 on today's ladder. If only that random rating drop hadn't happened, I might have a shiny little #1 ladder peak to show you, but it doesn't matter that much. I've never really thought of ladder peaks as a huge deal due to the nature of the ladder, so take from that what you will.

This whole ladder ordeal has reminded me why I hate laddering, so I'm hoping I can get some advice to improve my team before I try another ladder excursion thing. At any rate, here's the team.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Superpower
-Stone Edge

Even when you're not running one of those cookie cutter Tyranitar / Keldeo / Landorus cores or something, Choice Band Tyranitar is still an absolute monster. Being able to come in on a random Lati@s or something and kill it off with Pursuit is always a nice thing, and Tyranitar excels at doing just that. Superpower is a great coverage/utility move, especially seeing as how for reason people think it's a good idea to switch their Ferrothorn into Tyranitar. Stone Edge...well honestly, I hate the move, but you can't deny that it's powerful. I especially like how it 2HKOs physically defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock, but the accuracy really has the potential to let me down. Tyranitar's insane special bulk is one of the reasons that I love using him since it makes him such a good switch-in to several special attackers. He's just bulky enough to take Timid Landorus's Earth Power (in case the opponent gets paranoid about Focus Miss) and hopefully OHKO back with Stone Edge. The EVs are pretty similar to the standard spread, but I run a little extra speed to beat jerk Jellicent that run enough speed to beat the standard Choice Band set. Just to be safe, I run an extra 4 speed EVs to beat Tyranitar that run enough speed to beat the Jellicent that run enough speed to beat the standard set. So yeah, I speed creep.

Landorus (Landorus-T) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Stealth Rock
-U-turn

Landorus-T is easily my favorite Pokemon introduced in BW2. I was under the impression that he wouldn't turn out that great since Sand Force Landorus-I is actually a little stronger in Sand, but I really underestimated how good an ability Intimidate was on a Ground-type with decent bulk to begin with. Landorus is my main answer to a wide variety of physical threats from Terrakion to several Dragons. Just to put this thing's bulk into perspective, CB Terrakion's Stone Edge only 3HKOs ~8% of the time factoring in accuracy, and Landorus-T promptly OHKOs back with Earthquake. This gives Landorus-T several opportunities to switch in and set up Stealth Rock, and it's not unknown for it to set it up multiple times in one match after the opponent gets off a Rapid Spin. U-turn is just so great for catching the switch of a retreating Terrakion or something, putting the opponent under more pressure and hopefully racking up a bit more passive damage. I used to run a set very similar to the standard offensive pivot set, but the extra bulk has come in handy. In addition, I'll take HP Ice > Stone Edge any day, although I do somewhat miss the ability to keep Gyarados in check with the Rock coverage.

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-X-Scissor / Hidden Power [Ice]
-Rock Slide

Terrakion has long been one of my favorite Pokemon from 5th Gen, and the Choice Scarf set has thus far been my favorite set. I know that a lot of people prefer Keldeo as a Choice Scarf user and would rather use SR or CB on Terrakion, but I like spamming Terrakion's Close Combat late-game more than Keldeo's equally powerful but less accurate Hydro Pump. Terrakion honestly keep most offensive Pokemon in check at least decently, barring a few things like Breloom, Scizor, and Timid Venusar. Late-game sweeps with Scarf Terrakion are definitely harder than they used to be, but not uncommon. Like I said earlier, I hate Stone Edge, but I guess sometimes you just need the extra power. Rock Slide is sort of a panic button in case that Salamence or Volcarona absolutely must die at the risk of me being swept, mainly because it's a bit more accurate (although it's still known to miss occasionally, which is annoying). X-Scissor...well, honestly I rarely use it. I guess it's nice to have to safely dispose of a random Starmie or Lati@s or something, but I might go back to HP Ice with a Naive nature and 4 SpA EVs. This lets me 2HKO incoming Landorus-T and Gliscor, and it gives me a more reliable way of killing off weakened Salamence, Landorus-I, etc. (and in Landorus's case, it hits a bit harder than Stone Edge)

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
Careful Nature
-Iron Head
-Body Slam / Thunder Wave
-Wish
-Protect

This is a pretty standard specially defensive Jirachi setup, and it does what specially defensive Jirachi's do. This is my main switch-in to stuff like Lati@s, Alakazam, and Tornadus. Besides that, Jirachi just acts like a jerk to half the metagame, spreading paralysis and flinch haxing whatever it can. Jirachi also occasionally gets the chance to pass a Wish or two to Landorus-T, which is great considering how much I switch Landorus-T in and out during a given match. I usually use Body Slam, but I gave Thunder Wave a try recently for the greater reliability. However, Ground-types are kind of a commonplace now, and I've found that if the opponent has one, they'll probably end up switching it into Jirachi. Body Slam is less reliable, but it paralyzes stupid Landorus-I switch-ins over half the time, so I'm pretty happy with it. The EVs are standard, enough to outrun (and hopefully paralyze) Adamant Breloom, Timid Magnezone, etc.

Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
-Spore
-Stun Spore
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb

If I had a list of underappreciated but awesome Pokemon, Amoonguss would definitely be near the top of that list. Amoonguss is especially awesome in this metagame since it makes a great check to Keldeo and is even capable of taking on Landorus-I one-on-one. I also love the fact that Amoonguss puts a lot of pressure on Rain teams and some Sand teams as well, and the combination of Tyranitar + Amoonguss + Jirachi is almost an insta-win against bad ladder Rain teams. Spore is one of the greatest move in 5th Gen since, as long as you don't get unlucky with a one-turn sleep (and sometimes even if you do), it's almost an effective KO against whatever it hits. Stun Spore makes a great followup for when the opponent thinks they can just switch in the sleep fodder and then go to an offensive Pokemon and attempt to setup. The main downside about Amoonguss is that if it has already statused a couple of things and there isn't much for it specifically to check, it ends up not doing much. STAB Giga Drain does hit respectively hard, though, especially on Pokemon weak to it. I tend to run HP Ice for the harder hit on Dragons and Landorus-I, but Sludge Bomb is a cool move. For one thing, it OHKOs Breloom (who I hate), and having a third status to toss around is a cool thing. It also hits almost as hard as a super effective HP Ice, but being able to actually do a ton of damage to Landorus-I is really useful as well. I know the standard set runs 28 SpA EVs to always beat SubCM Keldeo, but I really prefer to have every bit of special bulk I can get to better take on Landorus-I. Besides, SubCM Keldeo is rare, and with SR + Sandstorm limiting it to 3 Subs, I'll probably end up coming out on top anyways.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Toxic

In the BW1 version of this team, Heatran was my Stealth Rock user. However, with Landorus-T taking that spot, Heatran lost its main role. I still like BalloonTran's ability to check things like Garchomp, Salamence, Landorus-T, physical Landorus-I, and Gliscor with its Balloon intact, and so I decided that instead of replacing Heatran, I'd just try a filler move. Substitute and Taunt were alright, but Toxic BalloonTran has been one of the coolest Pokemon sets I've used in a while. It lures in all kinds of stuff like Tyranitar and random bulky Water-types and poisons them, which lets the rest of my team wear them down much more quickly. Besides that, this is just the standard BalloonTran. It uses the combination of the Air Balloon and Heatran's unique resistances to keep those aforementioned threats in check. HP Ice is key here since most of the stuff that Heatran is good at keeping in check is 4x weak to it. Fire Blast spam is also fun, especially against Sun teams who rely on Dugtrio to beat Heatran (provided I can keep my Balloon intact, that is). In fact, Heatran was my main Sun check during BW1, and he serves a very similar role now.


Well, that's about it for the team. There are a couple things in particular that I have noticed the team struggles with.

-Due to the very balanced nature of this team, I'm pretty weak to well-built stall teams. Luckily, the few stall teams that I have seen on the ladder either had exploitable holes in them or were run by average players, but even then I mainly only won through aggressive double switching and raw offensive pressure. A well played and solid stall team has the potential to rip me a new one since I don't have much in the way of raw power or stallbreakers.

-Landorus-I is sort of a jerk in general. The Rock Polish sets aren't huge issue since Amoonguss can take two Earth Powers from Timid Landorus-I the majority of the time and put it to sleep, paralyze it, or outright kill it with HP Ice. It's the Psychic variants that I mainly have trouble with since they easily 2HKO Amoonguss and have the potential to OHKO if he comes in with ~80% or less health and Stealth Rock down. In addition, the only Pokemon on my team that outspeeds it is Terrakion, who doesn't do a ton of damage with Stone Edge. As a matter of fact, my win streak was ended literally because of this variant (that, and Terrakion missed the Stone Edge that should have killed it).

-I should be a lot more weak to SubDD Gyarados than I have been. It sets up all over Jirachi and Landorus-T, and if it gets a Sub and DD up, it could very well be Game Over right there. Luckily, Heatran does a great job of luring it in and poisoning it, and the combination of Stealth Rock and Sandstorm helps wear it down a bit, but a well played one (especially in Rain) could completely screw me over.

-Ice Punch Conkeldurr is pretty troublesome. My main way of beating it is to bring Landorus-T on it to weaken it and wear it down a bit, forcing it to use Ice Punch instead of Drain Punch and thus keeping it from healing. Then I just try to hit it with stuff until it dies. Amoonguss can outspeed the Brave variants and put them to sleep, but the Adamant ones outspeed and kill Amoonguss as well. I have been known to paraflinch it with Jirachi once in a while, but that's hardly reliable. It has never completely swept me so far, but it does way too much damage for comfort.


There are probably other problems, but those are the ones that have stuck out to me the most. Now that that's all said and done, rate away!

 

[dice]

hi there agent gibbs. this is a pretty cool team, but there are a few problems i see from inspection. it's a pretty well-built team, so i don't have much to say. first of all, the biggest problem the team has is having only one water resist. rain teams will be able to weaken amoonguss rather easily with things like ice beams on the switch, spike stacking + specs hydro pumps, etc. and you'll fall to the heavy hitters often found on rain teams. mamoswine is rather problematic as well since you really have nothing that wants to take an ice shard or tank an earthquake if you predict wrong. you have an awful stall matchup due to your lack of a set-up sweeper or stallbreaker. a lot of your pokemon are spikes bait, so it's not going to be a pleasant time landorus is really annoying as well since nothing wants to take and earth power and heatran is ohko'd by focus blast. amoonguss can to an extent, but a modest earth power still 2hkos. lastly, gyarados is a troublesome little pwny since he sets up on basically your whole team and terrakion's stone edge is your only hope of killing it. if gyarados is behind a sub or you miss, it's gg. due to these problems, i have a few suggestions. keep in mind that these suggestions are going to rework your team a little bit, but it's required to check all the threats.

first of all, i recommend you try out a keldeo instead of heatran. keldeo gives you a second water resist and retains your scizor check. with jirachi on your team, you really don't need heatran for another lati@s check while keldeo makes your team much less reactive and gives you a far better stall matchup. the choice to retain the choice scarf on terrakion and utilize a subcm / specs keldeo or vice versa (sd / band terarakion) is totally up to you and it will require testing to see which variation you prefer. this change makes you lose your sun check, so you'd be forced to run a lati@s instead of amoonguss. lati@s gives you a ground immunity and a better landorus check with smart play while beating sun like heatran. once again, i cannot provide the set or which lati@s you should use since it's all down to personal preference and testing to see which performs more consistently. lati@s and keldeo both appreciate tyranitar support to remove jellicent and lati@s, so tyranitar has a far more pivotal role in your team than it does now. these changes also make your team far less reactive, which, in bw, is a good thing. with these changes, you become far weaker to toxicroak due to the fact that heatran is no longer on your team to outspeed and keldeo gives it a free switch-in. allocating defense ev's to spe and making your landorus spread 252 hp / 140 def / 116 spe jolly with 30 spe ev's allows you to outspace toxicroak and dragonite as well. you could bump it up to outspeed lucario, but i don't think that is as necessary due to the rarity of ice punch.

these changes may change your team's aesthetic and make it look more standard so i understand if you don't wish to comply with them, but i feel as though they'd make your team more consistent in the long run. good luck!

 

[Spinda]

I'd like to point out your ACRE gets recalculated on your 15th battle, that 2115 wasn't actually your real ACRE, it was too high so it was dealt with on your 15th battle.

If this wasn't happening, you'd see a lot of ratings like these on the ladder:

I wouldn't even consider using thunder wave on Jirachi, I'm usually wary of switching my RP landorus-I into a Jirachi, but as soon as I see it's thunder wave, I've found myself a set-up opportunity. Considering you don't have a spinner, and amoonguss is your only ( shaky ) counter to Landorus-I, you really need to limit the pokemon it can switch in and set up on.
As for your Amoonguss set, I would remove Stun Spore, because you already have a Jirachi for spreading paralysis, and clear smog is just too good to pass up on Amoonguss, it helps you deal with breloom and various other set-up sweepers, while not being only 75% accurate.
I wanted to suggest a bulky Starmie over your heatran because your team really hates spikes and Skarmory and forry can actually come in on a majority of your team, but I could see that creating more problems than it fixes now.

 

[Pdizzle]

Hi nice team you got there. I especially love the addition of amoonguss on the team but I would recommend that you switch his set to a defensive build with hp fire. Tyranitar and amoonguss work really well together. Tyranitar can take the psychic and ice type attacks easily while amoonguss can brave fighting, water and grass type attacks and also bug, steel and groud with full investement in defense. hp fire is there to get rid of threats scizor who would potentially come in trying to set up.
Secondly, i would have to agree with what dice said. rain teams look like a problem to this team as amoonguss is your only counter but amoonguss can not hit back. I would recommend adding a specially defensive rotom-wash to your team. He can withstand ice and water attacks easily. He works well with the core of tyranitar and amoonguss as amoonguss covers his grass weakness as it 4 times resists and rotom can take steel and ground type attacks that tyranitar, heatran, and terrakion don't like. I would recommend you try out rotom-wash instead of jirachi as jirachi seems a bit out placed in this team.
the last 2 changes i would make are just preferences. I would switch to a choice banded terrakion as they provide immediate power that i think your team lacks. i would also take out rock slide or stone edge (which ever one you prefer) as i think having both is redundant. lastly, if you were to try out the new additions i suggested, i would switch the landorus set to a choice scarf set or expert belt set. landorus' attack base stat is no joke and he as well provides immediate damage and catch people off guard. good luck with your team.
Sets:

Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp/ Thunder Wave
- Rest
you can try the standard special set with leftovers, but i prefer the chesto resto set as you can cripple the opponent then rest up.

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly/Lonely Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge/Rock Climb
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack/Hidden Power Ice

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Superpower

these are just some suggestions i would make. i know these suggestions get rid of stealth rocks but i guess maybe u can have tyranitar as standard special with rocks or terrakion as anti lead with rocks. again these are just suggestions

and if anyone sees this, please check out my own rmt http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3484847

 

[Nysyr]

I see this team being molested by a LO Mamoswine that gets in on anything that isn't Terrakion not locked in on anything but close combat.

For this id suggest changing Jirachi for a Skarmory, this also gives you hazard/phaze support and a better check to physical dragons. You already have heatran, ttar and amoongus which takes on every special attacker in the meta.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Impish Nature
-Brave Bird
-Spikes
-Whirlwind
-Roost


This also partly opens up a team slot in Landorus, you can probably change him, but changing just jirachi for now doesn't change the team too much, and would open a SD luc and terrakion weakness.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

hi there agent gibbs. this is a pretty cool team, but there are a few problems i see from inspection. it's a pretty well-built team, so i don't have much to say. first of all, the biggest problem the team has is having only one water resist. rain teams will be able to weaken amoonguss rather easily with things like ice beams on the switch, spike stacking + specs hydro pumps, etc. and you'll fall to the heavy hitters often found on rain teams. mamoswine is rather problematic as well since you really have nothing that wants to take an ice shard or tank an earthquake if you predict wrong. you have an awful stall matchup due to your lack of a set-up sweeper or stallbreaker. a lot of your pokemon are spikes bait, so it's not going to be a pleasant time landorus is really annoying as well since nothing wants to take and earth power and heatran is ohko'd by focus blast. amoonguss can to an extent, but a modest earth power still 2hkos. lastly, gyarados is a troublesome little pwny since he sets up on basically your whole team and terrakion's stone edge is your only hope of killing it. if gyarados is behind a sub or you miss, it's gg. due to these problems, i have a few suggestions. keep in mind that these suggestions are going to rework your team a little bit, but it's required to check all the threats.

This is true.

first of all, i recommend you try out a keldeo instead of heatran. keldeo gives you a second water resist and retains your scizor check. with jirachi on your team, you really don't need heatran for another lati@s check while keldeo makes your team much less reactive and gives you a far better stall matchup. the choice to retain the choice scarf on terrakion and utilize a subcm / specs keldeo or vice versa (sd / band terarakion) is totally up to you and it will require testing to see which variation you prefer.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind swapping out Heatran for Keldeo. While I do appreciate Heatran's resistances, it's probably the least important member of the team. I might try out Scarf Keldeo and just change Terrakion to a Band set, which is generally the combo I choose whenever I run the two together. I've found that Specs Keldeo works best in Rain, and Expert Belt Keldeo is best for when you have something like Landorus-I that can abuse the fact that Celebi is now dead (which I don't have). Scarf works well in Sand and offers plenty of useful resistances besides the Water resistance. Plus, in the past, I've often found that leaving the opponent's Rain up allowed me to ravage some offensive Rain teams, which is a nice bonus.

this change makes you lose your sun check, so you'd be forced to run a lati@s instead of amoonguss. lati@s gives you a ground immunity and a better landorus check with smart play while beating sun like heatran. once again, i cannot provide the set or which lati@s you should use since it's all down to personal preference and testing to see which performs more consistently. lati@s and keldeo both appreciate tyranitar support to remove jellicent and lati@s, so tyranitar has a far more pivotal role in your team than it does now. these changes also make your team far less reactive, which, in bw, is a good thing.

I actually discussed a very similar change with a friend of mine on a chatroom the other night. She suggested I try offensive Latias over Amoonguss to add a bit of offensive pressure, and while Sandstorm + Life Orb recoil might hurt, I should be alright if I play smart with Recover. However, it may not be entirely necessary to make that change. While Heatran is my main answer to Sun, I often don't even need it. The combination of Tyranitar and Terrakion can do a real number to Sun teams as it is, although Dugtrio Sun has the potential to rip through that. I guess Latias could work, so I could give the offensive and CM sets a try.

with these changes, you become far weaker to toxicroak due to the fact that heatran is no longer on your team to outspeed and keldeo gives it a free switch-in. allocating defense ev's to spe and making your landorus spread 252 hp / 140 def / 116 spe jolly with 30 spe ev's allows you to outspace toxicroak and dragonite as well. you could bump it up to outspeed lucario, but i don't think that is as necessary due to the rarity of ice punch.

Toxicroak isn't too bad if I can get Sand back up (it's not incredibly hard to predict an Ice Punch or Substitute and get Tyranitar in safely). It's definitely worth a shot, though. However, I'll probably tweak the EV spread a bit. That one lets CB Terrakion 2HKO Landorus-T after Stealth Rock ~5% of the time, and I'm a little paranoid about that. If I just balance the physical bulk a bit with a 220 HP / 172 Def / 116 Spe spread, it'll make it so that CB Terrakion only 2HKOs after Stealth Rock 0.39% of the time. That's about as close to 0% as I can get without sacrificing a lot of HP (I need something like 184 HP / 208 Def to always survive, which I suppose is still possible). I might run a Naive nature as well to maintain HP Ice's power. Besides, I rarely leave Landorus-T in on powerful special attackers anyways.

these changes may change your team's aesthetic and make it look more standard so i understand if you don't wish to comply with them, but i feel as though they'd make your team more consistent in the long run. good luck!

Oh, I don't mind the team looking more standard, as long as it works. Thanks for the rate!

I'd like to point out your ACRE gets recalculated on your 15th battle, that 2115 wasn't actually your real ACRE, it was too high so it was dealt with on your 15th battle.

If this wasn't happening, you'd see a lot of ratings like these on the ladder:

Ok, I guess that makes sense. I haven't tried to seriously ladder on Pokemon Showdown! in forever, so I guess I just never noticed (usually when I peak, I notice it by accident). There was still that other incident where my rating dropped 50 points from 1940 to 1890 during a match, right before I was about to make it back onto the leaderboard, so I'm still not entirely happy with it, lol.

I wouldn't even consider using thunder wave on Jirachi, I'm usually wary of switching my RP landorus-I into a Jirachi, but as soon as I see it's thunder wave, I've found myself a set-up opportunity. Considering you don't have a spinner, and amoonguss is your only ( shaky ) counter to Landorus-I, you really need to limit the pokemon it can switch in and set up on.

Yeah, I agree. Landorus-I is pretty much the main reason that I've gone back to Body Slam, although paralyzing stuff like Gliscor before its Toxic Orb activate is kinda cool too.

As for your Amoonguss set, I would remove Stun Spore, because you already have a Jirachi for spreading paralysis, and clear smog is just too good to pass up on Amoonguss, it helps you deal with breloom and various other set-up sweepers, while not being only 75% accurate.

I've tried Clear Smog in the past, but I didn't really like it much. Stun Spore is honestly less about paralyzing stuff and more about crippling sweepers. Essentially, Clear Smog and Stun Spore fulfill very similar roles, but Stun Spore is more permanent and screws over offensive Pokemon that don't have to set up. In addition, once the opponent is paralyzed, several other members of my team might be able to get rid of them, but that may not be the case with Clear Smog. I guess there's no harm in giving it another try later down the road, though.

I wanted to suggest a bulky Starmie over your heatran because your team really hates spikes and Skarmory and forry can actually come in on a majority of your team, but I could see that creating more problems than it fixes now.

Starmie might be alright, but you're right, there would be other problems. I do hate Spikes, though, so maybe offensive Starmie could work, spinning while keeping up the offensive pressure that would be lost by dropping Heatran. I would kinda miss my main method of forcing out Ferrothorn, though.

Thanks for the rate!

Hi nice team you got there. I especially love the addition of amoonguss on the team but I would recommend that you switch his set to a defensive build with hp fire. Tyranitar and amoonguss work really well together. Tyranitar can take the psychic and ice type attacks easily while amoonguss can brave fighting, water and grass type attacks and also bug, steel and groud with full investement in defense. hp fire is there to get rid of threats scizor who would potentially come in trying to set up.

I know the synergy between physically defensive Amoonguss and Tyranitar looks good, but changing up Amoonguss's spread like that really hurts his main purpose, which is pretty much taking on special attackers like Keldeo and Landorus, as well as Water-types in general. HP Fire sounds nice since Scizor loves to try and set up on Amoonguss, and Stun Spore doesn't help all that much seeing as how I still have to worry about priority Bullet Punch.

Secondly, i would have to agree with what dice said. rain teams look like a problem to this team as amoonguss is your only counter but amoonguss can not hit back. I would recommend adding a specially defensive rotom-wash to your team. He can withstand ice and water attacks easily. He works well with the core of tyranitar and amoonguss as amoonguss covers his grass weakness as it 4 times resists and rotom can take steel and ground type attacks that tyranitar, heatran, and terrakion don't like. I would recommend you try out rotom-wash instead of jirachi as jirachi seems a bit out placed in this team.

To be honest, Rain teams are rarely a problem. Like I mentioned earlier, the combination of Tyranitar + Amoonguss + Jirachi manhandles some of the common Rain teams on the ladder (although admittedly, that might be more due to the low skill level of many ladder players). Now, having one Water resist is annoying since Amoonguss doesn't always last forever, and you two do have a point that the opponent might go all beatdown on Amoonguss and wear it down. I could certainly try Rotom-W, although I'll probably end up running Leftovers and free up a slot for Pain Split or something.

the last 2 changes i would make are just preferences. I would switch to a choice banded terrakion as they provide immediate power that i think your team lacks. i would also take out rock slide or stone edge (which ever one you prefer) as i think having both is redundant. lastly, if you were to try out the new additions i suggested, i would switch the landorus set to a choice scarf set or expert belt set. landorus' attack base stat is no joke and he as well provides immediate damage and catch people off guard. good luck with your team.

I do like the idea of running Choice Band Terrakion > Scarf Terrakion, but I'd need another fast Scarf user (which is why I'm entertaining the earlier suggestion of Keldeo > Heatran). Otherwise, Dragon Dance Salamence has the potential to do a lot of damage, for example. Ordinarily, I can take a hit easily with Landorus-T and hit back with HP Ice, or I can revenge kill it with Terrakion. With that change, LO Salamence would almost always OHKO Landorus-T after Stealth Rock with Outrage and possibly keep going. I guess I could play safe with Heatran and bring it in after it Outrages, but running Scarf Keldeo alongside Band Terrakion and keeping Landorus-T bulky might be more efficient.

On a side note, if I run Band Terrakion, I won't be running Rock Slide and Stone Edge together since there are more useful things to use. On the Scarf set, however, Rock Slide is kinda useful since it gives you a more accurate Rock STAB to use against Pokemon such as Salamence and Volcarona in case they are about to sweep if you miss. Besides, it's not like anything else is super useful in that last moveslot.

these are just some suggestions i would make. i know these suggestions get rid of stealth rocks but i guess maybe u can have tyranitar as standard special with rocks or terrakion as anti lead with rocks. again these are just suggestions

Yeah, I would miss having Stealth Rock, so those changes are always worth a shot.

Thanks for the rate!

I see this team being molested by a LO Mamoswine that gets in on anything that isn't Terrakion not locked in on anything but close combat.

For this id suggest changing Jirachi for a Skarmory, this also gives you hazard/phaze support and a better check to physical dragons. You already have heatran, ttar and amoongus which takes on every special attacker in the meta.

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Impish Nature
-Brave Bird
-Spikes
-Whirlwind
-Roost


This also partly opens up a team slot in Landorus, you can probably change him, but changing just jirachi for now doesn't change the team too much, and would open a SD luc and terrakion weakness.

Well, Mamoswine is just one of those Pokemon that a lot of teams should be weak to on paper, but in practice it's not that bad. Mamoswine never really kills more than one Pokemon since I can often predict around it and get Terrakion or BalloonTran in somehow. Of course, my team in particular could have trouble against a good player with one since the average speed of the team is so slow. Skarmory could help, but I think Skarmory > Jirachi would be good enough without changing Landorus-T. I wonder, though, if just running Keldeo, Band Terrakion, and Latias as suggested earlier would help enough? This would make it harder for Mamoswine to come in on Terrakion, since now even Stone Edge has the potential to OHKO after Stealth Rock, and even X-Scissor might 2HKO. Keldeo would also offer another check (one that isn't Earthquake-weak, might I add), and offensive Latias would at least be able to outspeed and OHKO, which Amoonguss cannot do (although Ice Shard will still hurt a lot).

Thanks for the rate!




Well, that's a lot of advice, lol. It'll probably be later tomorrow before I have time to really get on Pokemon Showdown! and test out stuff, so that'll leave time for another rate or two before I starting trying everything out. I really like the idea of Scarf Keldeo > Heatran, Latias (CM or LO) > Amoonguss, and Band > Scarf Terrakion, but I'll try to give all of your suggestions a test run and see how they do. Again, thanks for all the advice!

 

[tcr]

Just a small thing gibbs, but i would recommend running Protect ---> U-turn on Jirachi. This change let's you keep Wish passing, except more effectively imo, by possibly bringing in a weakened poke safely with a slow u-turn. It'll help a lot with making your team more offensive as well, and will break any balloon trans that might come your way, because they honestly seem tough to play around if they come in on anything except terrakion. U-turn may lose you the ability to stall with jirachi, but SpD rachi is really bulky anyways, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you go with Scarf Keldeo, I would strongly recommend keeping jirachi, as Wish passing really helps in the long run, and with keldeo added you now have the ability to X-swish from anything into Lando into Keldeo to catch Mamo should it be a problem. Overall good team, and I swear, I clicked the luvdisc :]

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Just a small thing gibbs, but i would recommend running Protect ---> U-turn on Jirachi. This change let's you keep Wish passing, except more effectively imo, by possibly bringing in a weakened poke safely with a slow u-turn. It'll help a lot with making your team more offensive as well, and will break any balloon trans that might come your way, because they honestly seem tough to play around if they come in on anything except terrakion. U-turn may lose you the ability to stall with jirachi, but SpD rachi is really bulky anyways, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

U-turn is certainly worth a try. I used to really prefer Protect since I needed to keep Jirachi healthy to better check so much stuff, but since I added Tyranitar a while back, I think I could manage without. Still, Jirachi is my main answer to SubDisable Gengar, and cycling through Iron Head and Protect would usually let me beat it one on one. I guess breaking its Sub with Iron Head and following up with U-turn as it Disables could work, though.

If you go with Scarf Keldeo, I would strongly recommend keeping jirachi, as Wish passing really helps in the long run, and with keldeo added you now have the ability to X-swish from anything into Lando into Keldeo to catch Mamo should it be a problem.

Mmm, that's true, I love a good xwishh.

Overall good team, and I swear, I clicked the luvdisc :]

Lol, yeah, it says I have 1 Luvdisc now. I guess I just have to have a couple more before they show up on the sub-forum page.

Thanks broski!