master of puppets dp-style

[Ancien Régime]

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/80Def/178 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Substitute
---

Set up Substitute, Leech Seed the expected switchin, Baton Pass first turn in case Skarmory tries to come in, I have many options here.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP/86 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Magnet Rise
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Metal Sound
---
Magnezone is durable enough and has enough resistances to be a good Substitute recipient. Metal Sound helps it get through walls like Blissey and Cresselia (neither of which can hurt it much) I might run Chopla Berry (I believe that halves SE Ground attacks) which would allow Magnezone to get a Magnet Rise off against a faster enemy, like a Metagross.

Dragonite (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/ 252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SAtk)
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
---

The hope here is that I can get 2-3 Dragon Dances with the Yache + Subpass set-up.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed

Self-explanatory. Lucario doesn't really need the extra speed.


Mismagius (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 130 HP/252 Spd/128 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
---

Mismagius really benefits from the 404 subs Celebi passes. The 40 or so extra HP helps in making the Subs last.

Swampert(M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/196 Def/62 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
---

Feel free to criticize Swampert without a water move; I don't think it's neccesarily needed because Earthquake/Ice Beam cover most of what Surf/Waterfall do, thus making it more valuable to have HP Electric for Gyarados support and Stealth Rock support without having to choose one or the other.

The basic goal of this team is to use Celebi to set up substitutes while crippling opponents with Leech Seed. Leech Seed helps keep Celebi alive, as well as forcing switches and disrupting my opponents strategy. From there, it depends on what I want to do - again, it's about having several attacking options and maximizing them.

The name is derived from the name a skilled ADV player I know gave to the Subseed Baton Pass Celebi set, and how he used it in his teams, and I decided to set myself to the task of making a DP team with that concept.

One of the keys is that any of the three main pokemon can launch a sweep at any given time, or at least inflict a great deal of damage to the opponent's defensive stalwarts to allow another pokemon to launch a sweep.

 

[gaudetjaja]

Celebi as a lead looks a bit shaky to me, especially with no attack moves. Tauntados is going to like this. I'd suggest putting grass knot on there instead of recover or something, or even better, just pick another lead.

Of course you have zap cannon forry for Gyarados, but still... What if your opponent happens to have magnezone or if it's later in the game and Forry is dead? Gyarados would walk all over you. I know that these 'if pokemon A B and C are dead pokemon D owns you' comments are frowned upon, but it's something to consider nonetheless.

Be careful when you say 'Lucario doesn't need the extra speed', as there are allways counters with a little bit extra speed than normal lying around the corner.

For the rest, this team seems pretty solid.

 

[x_XDanielX_x]

On your Magnezone

I don't understand the use of Magnezone, couldn't one EQ kill it?

 

[Ancien Régime]

Celebi as a lead looks a bit shaky to me, especially with no attack moves. Tauntados is going to like this.

Substitute blocks Taunt, and I outspeed Gyarados no matter what. And if it's not running Ice Fang or Stone Edge, it will need two Dragon Dances before it can even consider breaking my Subs.

Be careful when you say 'Lucario doesn't need the extra speed', as there are allways counters with a little bit extra speed than normal lying around the corner.

What is Lucario being outsped by that I'm either not switching out of (think Gengar and Mismagius), or Extremespeeding (Azelf/Porygon-Z though I could just CC with Jolly)?


For the rest, this team seems pretty solid.[/quote]

I don't understand the use of Magnezone, couldn't one EQ kill it?

I don't understand your question, sorry. I'm trying to trap steels, particularly Skarmory that can phaze this team, but also things like Bronzong (who could potentially wall this team otherwise), etc. I'm considering Chopla Berry solely for Metagross, to ensure that I survive an EQ from a faster Metagross, use Magnet Rise (and with the exception of Hidden Power Fire, I at least 2x resist any move Metagross can possibly use on me, and 4x resist Meteor Mash) then take Metagross out.

 

[gaudetjaja]

Substitute blocks Taunt

No, it doesn't.

, and I outspeed Gyarados no matter what. And if it's not running Ice Fang or Stone Edge, it will need two Dragon Dances before it can even consider breaking my Subs.

It's not uncommon for it to carry something to hit Celebi, but you can't do anything back anyway, you can't even baton pass away. So that's why I suggest giving it Grass Knot. But sure, if you don't want to...

What is Lucario being outsped by that I'm either not switching out of (think Gengar and Mismagius), or Extremespeeding (Azelf/Porygon-Z though I could just CC with Jolly)?

I don't have time to look it up right now but I am sure there are some. I know I read it somewhere on some smogon analysis. "XX outspeeds adamant Lucario"

 

[Invective]

shuca berry halves SE ground types. chople berry halves SE fighting, IIRC.

also, i see an extremely big mixape weak. if he gets a NP off, he can 2hko almost anything. ill rate it fully later though, have to be somewhere now.

 

[Mekkah]

If Infernape after a Nasty Plot can 2HKO things, surely it dies before sweeping you. It's when he OHKOs your entire team when you should be wondering if a Bug mono isn't a good idea.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Well, I do have a Mixape weak as it will OHKO my entire team if it carries Hidden Power Ice and gets a Nasty Plot under its belt.

I can play around this however, because frankly it can't really Plot safely, seeing that even Forretress can cripple it with Zap Cannon and Celebi can effectively halve its lifespan with Celebi, but that's relying too much on prediction I guess.

In any case, was I indeed wrong that Substitute does not block Taunt? In the Substitute analysis, Taunt is not listed either in "blocked" or "unblocked", so I assumed the former.

 

[DarkSuicune]

I would suggest a Subseeding Sceptile instead of Celebi. I find him much much faster and stronger.

 

[the_artic_one]

I can confirm that sub doesn't block taunt.

 

[gaudetjaja]

To soften your mixape weak a bit you could put Psychic on Celebi, this will also allow it to hit Gyarados (but not that hard).

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

I unno I'd probably like Dragonite here over Garchomp better. With the potential Substitute it gets, it's a lot easier to get off 2 DD's as opposed to 1. After those 2 DD's, you're going to be raping harder than Garchomp would've. Not to mention, that could help your Infernpae thing, assuming it doesn't have HPIce, as just regular Close Combats would destroy a Garchomp on a switch in..

Also you might want to slap Stealth Rocks over Gyro Ball or some shit. Focus Sashers will be the bane of this team. The poison won't activate it if they're switching in after you killed something. Also helps against Gyarados etc.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Also you might want to slap Stealth Rocks over Gyro Ball or some shit. Focus Sashers will be the bane of this team. The poison won't activate it if they're switching in after you killed something. Also helps against Gyarados etc.

Well, to me, the most obvious removal would be Toxic Spikes, but Toxic Spikes helps Mismagius beat the big special walls (Blissey/Tyranitar to an extent though it should get at least one CM before Tar comes in).

Then again, Blissey wouldn't have much safe haven against this team anyway; Magnezone cripples it with Metal Sound, Lucario, Chomp/Nite just wreck it, Mismagius gets +6 in Blissey's face no matter what, and Celebi abuses its high HP with Leech Seed/Sub. Lucario switches in on Tyranitar any time it wants even considering how fragile it is (4x resisting both STABs)

Swampert might be a better option over Forretress anyway; it handles the Infernape and Weavile (which was the reason I put in Forretress in the first place) issues better, provides better utility, and I can forego Pert's STAB to have both SR and HP Electric(Honestly, between Earthquake and Ice Beam, what exactly does Waterfall/Surf hit? In my personal experience (and it may be different for others) Swampert's not using Waterfall/Surf all that much anyway.) It's also better for potentially taking out Gliscor (which this team could be bothered with, though not much)

 

[TheNastyz]

GK or Psychic for Celebi. You need an attacking move to counter leads, more notably BulkyDos, Infernape, & ScarfGar. Gyarados uses Taunt & you're screwed. If it doesn't switch, it probably has Ice Fang or Bite (lol), then you're double screwed. Outrage is an option for DDNite, but it'll waste a chance to dent Skarmory the first time it switches into him.
Nobody uses Focus Sash on Lucario anymore... 4/5

 

[Ancien Régime]

GK or Psychic for Celebi. You need an attacking move to counter leads, more notably BulkyDos, Infernape, & ScarfGar.

Why the fuck would I leave Celebi in on Gengar or Infernape? And even if I get Taunted, Leech Seed effectively cripples Dos's sweeping ability, and Swampert provides good coverage, with HP Electric to hit it hard and Stealth Rock to complicate its return.

What I want to know is: how effective is this team concept? I've been fairly successful with it in limited use, but in general, how does this team fare in a holistic sense?

 

[CAY]

Actually Leaving Celebi without psychic against Gengar is retard >__> , however... i dont think you can leech seed after a taut (not sure, havent tried it) and you may want to get Grass Knot instead of Leech Seed, seems you get a little walled by a Swampert, in case you cant Magnet rise

 

[Ancien Régime]

I outspeed any possible Gyarados, and Swampert is not doing anything to Mismagius unless it packs Waterfall > Surf, and its still getting dented by Shadow Ball.

I might try Grass Knot though, just because everyone seems to be insistent that this team dies horribly to Bulkydos >.<

 

[CAY]

Humm i dont think Mismagius can beat down Swampert without being left with 25% HP or less, i use a Sponge tipe Swampert, which would rape Mismagius, assuming you get 2-3 HKOd while you fail to 2HKO even with calm mind up, however that doesnt matter, i havent seen a Spong Swampy besides mine XD, as For gyarados i think Swampert can deal with him pretty Good, HP Electric just pwns him, then Luke / Mismagius can come in for the revenge kill.