Magmortar (Update)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magmortar



Sets
*Choice - Rewritten completely, moves stayed the same.
*Mixed - Rewritten completely, mentions of Focus Punch for handling Chansey and Regirock better
*SubPunch- Added, courtesy of tennisace

Concerns
*Is three sets enough?
*Why is everything mentioned as "he"? I'll leave it as so


[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Focus Punch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Magmortar's versatile movepool combined with its 383 Special Attack stat makes it one of the most potent special sweepers in UU. Killing things with Magmortar is simple; Thunderbolt bulky waters, HP Ice Dragon-types such as Altaria, Focus Blast for Rock and Normal-types, and Fire Blast / Overheat decimates everything else. Finding a safe switch-in is very difficult, since even common resistances such as Altaria take 49% minimum from a Choice Specs Fire Blast, a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock present on the field. Focus Punch is only an option for Chansey, however, if you consider using Focus Punch, a Mild nature is the best option, since it will deal 67% minimum on average to a 40 HP/252 Def Chansey, a 2HKO without even the need for Stealth Rock. Focus Blast fails to 2HKO without Stealth Rock, dealing 54% <strong>maximum</strong>.</p>

<p>Magmortar's real downfall is its subpar Speed as well as its generally poor typing. Many people would prefer other sweepers such as Blaziken over Magmortar in order to take out specific threats such as Chansey easier due to a Fighting STAB. The main reasons one would use Magmortar over Blaziken include Thunderbolt, and the significant higher Special Attack and useful higher Speed. Some prefer Typhlosion over Magmortar not only for a much higher base Speed, but for the massive power of Eruption. While Magmortar doesn't have anything as strong as Eruption (Overheat does come close), it also has Thunderbolt to hit bulky Waters harder, as well as a much higher Special Attack. Magmortar also doesn't lose power as it switches into Stealth Rock, something that can ruin a Typhlosion sweep.</p>

<p>If one is looking for a faster Magmortar, giving the fiery beast a Choice Scarf allows it to reach a respectable speed stat of 397 when Modest, and 436 when Timid. The extra Speed could useful when combating things such as Rock Polish Torterra, Jolly DD Altaria, and even Choice Scarf Typhlosion. Most would not expect a Choice Scarf on Magmortar, so as well as revenge killing potent threats, the surprise value could be enough to trip your opponent up a bit.</p>

<p>Due to being locked into Choice attacks, Magmortar will often be switching out often if a resistance to one of its attacks switches-in, because of this, having something to sponge Water, Ground, and Rock attacks will greatly benefit Magmortar. A Poliwrath can switch into any Water attack, recover HP, set up a Substitute, and fire off Focus Punches. Poliwrath also scares away Chansey, Magmortar's number one counter, with the threat of Focus Punch or Brick Break. Poliwrath also benefits from Magmortar in the sense that Magmortar's Thunderbolt will take out bulky Waters that threaten to wall Poliwrath. Mismagius works as well, although it can only switch-in on Ground attacks reliably. Still, Mismagius can set up on Chansey, defensive Water-types such as Milotic and Slowbro, as well as benefit from Magmortar scaring off bulky Steel and Dark-types such as Registeel and Spiritomb.</p>


[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Mild
EVs: 60 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Magmortar is often regarded as a special sweeper, it can also run a mixed set in order to screw over common counters, as well as have some freedom in its attacks. Overheat is ignored in this set mainly because this Magmortar is designed to break teams, thus is meant to stay in and cause as much havoc as possible, plus, the Special Attack drop often hurts Magmortar more than the lower base power of Fire Blast will. This set places more emphasis on Special Attack and Speed, mainly because things that are hit by Cross Chop (Chansey, Regirock, and Houndoom) are hit hard enough to Cross Chop whether or not you have maximum attack. The only notable threats you lose damage on is Regirock, who can still be 3HKOed with Stealth Rock factored in. Chansey also can't switch-in on this either, as a Fire Blast followed by a Cross Chop 2HKOs 100% of the time. If Milotic has any ideas of coming in to absorb a Fire Blast, Thunderbolt will easily 2HKO it, as well as OHKOing Slowbro and Azumarill. At a glance, Altaria is one of the only things to safely switch-in without sustaining serious damage, however, Hidden Power Ice is preferred over Hidden Power Grass in order to OHKO Altaria with Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>There are a few other options for this set. Focus Punch is risky, but deals a lot more damage to incoming Chansey (OHKO compared to Cross Chop's 91% maximum). It also does a lot more to Regirock, Hariyama, and incoming Water-types such as Milotic and Gastrodon. Beware, misprediction when using Focus Punch can have some very nasty results, but the pay-off is immense. Overheat is, again, a lesser option, but cannot be ignored due to its immense power. Expert Belt is an option if you want an item that boosts power, but doesn't remove health from Magmortar. The reason for this is that with Stealth Rock, Hail/Sandstorm, and Life Orb recoil, Magmortar will be taking 41.75% when switching in, and delivering a single move. One must weigh the disadvantages with Expert Belt over Life Orb, as it will prevent Magmortar from OHKOing the standard Milotic with Fire Blast followed by a Thunderbolt with Stealth Rock down on average.</p>

<p>Even though mixed Magmortar is a very accomplished wall-breaker, many players prefer Blaziken over Magmortar due to its lack of Stealth Rock weakness and STAB Superpower. The main reason one would use Magmortar over something like Blaziken is the fact that Magmortar doesn't need to resort to Hidden Power in order to hit bulky Waters, allowing it to use Hidden Power Ice to deal with Altaria, whom can wall Blaziken without Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice. Nidoking is sometimes used over Magmortar for its Stealth Rock resistance, as well as STAB Earthquake and ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. While Magmortar cannot do anything of that sort, it does have Fire Blast to deal more damage to the likes of Venusaur, an OHKO compared to Ice Beam's 2HKO. Magmortar also lures in Regirock easier than Nidoking, allowing Magmortar to weaken it significantly with Cross Chop or Fire Blast.</p>

<p>Since mixed Magmortar's purpose is to rid itself of common counters such as Chansey, it needs less support on the offensive side of the spectrum. The main thorn in Magmortar's side in this case is Stealth Rock, thus a Rapid Spinner or something to prevent Stealth Rock from being set up works wonders. Blastoise can Rapid Spin away threats, Toxic things such as Milotic and Slowbro, and handle Regirock comfortably. Poliwrath still works well, as it absorbs Rock and Water attacks being thrown at Magmortar, as well as setting up on perhaps the most solid counter to mixed Magmortar, Regirock. Pokemon that have trouble with things like Chansey, bulky Waters, and the like will work well with Magmortar. A physical Feraligatr is walled to no end by the likes of Milotic and Slowbro, but with them gone, it can rip apart the opponents team while also handling the likes of Regirock with boosted Waterfalls.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Substitute
item: Expert Belt
nature: Mild
EVs: 152 Atk / 244 Spe / 112 SpA
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set attemps to ease the prediction of using Magmortar as a mixed sweeper. Substitute and Focus Punch is an old combination, but still remains effective, especially on such a fragile yet powerful sweeper such as Magmortar. Substitute prevents status, such as Thunder Wave from Chansey, and guarantees to get at least one Focus Punch off. 152 Atk EVs with an Expert Belt allows Focus Punch to deal 96% minimum to 40 HP / 252 Def Chansey and 43% minimum to 0 HP / 252 Def Regirock. Fire Blast guarantees an 2HKO on the standard Claydol, Spiritomb, Rotom, and Nidoqueen assuming Stealth Rock factored in. Thunderbolt covers Slowbro and Milotic, 2HKOing and 3HKOing both respectively with the given spread. 244 Speed allows Magmortar to hit a 263 Speed stat, outpacing the standard mixed Nidoking, and all forms of Blaziken, as well as outpacing SubRoost Moltres if you're ever paired up with one. Expert Belt is the preferred item, allowing Magmortar to gain the OHKOs and 2HKOs mentioned above. Leftovers is still an option, but the loss in power is noticable, such as Thunderbolt failing to 2HKO Milotic, and Focus Punch failing to OHKO Chansey.</p>

<p>Since this set is so reliant on gaining certain 2HKOs and OHKOs, Stealth Rock is an absolute must. As important as it is to get Stealth Rock onto the opposition's field, it is also important to remove it from Magmortar's side of the field, as Substituting after switching into Stealth Rock will remove 1/2 of Magmortar's total health. Claydol works well here, as it can set up Stealth Rock, spin away any entry hazards, and use Ice Beam to prevent this set's biggest threat; Altaria. Claydol also can use Explosion on Altaria, leaving Magmortar to clean up the rest of the opponent's team. Faster threats such as Houndoom, Nidoking, and Moltres pose problems to this set, so a Poliwrath or Azumarill could pair up well in order to scare these faster threats away with the threat of a Water STAB move. </p>

[Team Options]

<p>Magmortar's attacks will rip a whole into everything that doesn't outright resist it, however, its frailty and Stealth Rock weakness can often hurt him more than the opponent's team will. Due to this, a Rapid Spinner is highly reccomended if using Magmortar, especially the mixed set who uses Life Orb. Anything that sets up Stealth Rock will aid Magmortar in its sweep, especially those that resist Magmortar's weaknesses. Donphan perform both jobs effectively, as well as absorb incoming Rock attacks thrown at Magmortar. Unfortunately, they both share a Water weakness, meaning adding a Water-resist to the mix would be most beneficial.</p>

<p>Choice Specs Magmortar can 2HKO nearly everything in UU with the right move, although Chansey is quite troublesome. A great teammate for any Magmortar is Poliwrath, who takes Rock and Water moves, as well as setting up on Chansey with ease. Poliwrath can also take certain Milotic who do not run Hidden Power Electric, and it also sets up on Slowbro that utilize Surf and Ice Beam, assuming it runs a Bulk Up set. Mismagius appreciates the free-switch into Chansey, and defensive bulky Waters, and it also benefits from Magmotar ridding the field of its counters such as Registeel, Spiritomb, and even Clefable. Anything that has trouble with Steel-types or bulky Waters also work well with Magmortar, such as Dragon Dance Flail Feraligatr. With Slowbro and Milotic removed, Feraligatr can Dragon Dance up and either Substitute down for Flail, or simply begin firing off Torrent boosted Waterfalls. Late-game threats such as Swords Dance Blaziken sometimes have trouble with things like Slowbro, Azumarill, and, to a lesser extent, Milotic in early game. Using Magmortar as a lure to both of these works, as they will often expect a Fire Blast, only to be nailed with a Thunderbolt. Other physical sweepers such as Swellow and Tauros love having Steel-types gone, and begin sweeping with their STAB Normal moves and excellent Speed.</p>

<p>Mixed Magmortar is an excellent lure for things such as Chansey, as Cross Chop or Focus Punch will weaken Chansey significantly. With the threat of Chansey potentially gone, a lot of special sweepers will be able to carry out sweeps undisturbed. Typhlosion, Espeon, and even Sceptile are examples of fast sweepers that are shut down by Chansey more often than not. Poliwrath still works well with Magmortar, as it sets up on the biggest counter to mixed Magmortar, Regirock. An Earthquake from a 0 Atk neutral natured Regirock doesn't do enough to break a max HP Poliwrath's Substitute. Poliwrath can either proceed to Bulk Up, or just begin firing off Focus Punches at the opponent, weakening it enough for Magmortar to clean up later on. Paralysis will help Magmortar, due to its low Speed preventing it for killing things it can normally KO, such as Tauros, Drapion, and Scyther. Baton Passing to this Magmortar isn't a bad idea at all, as Magmortar would certainly appreciate a Nasty Plot or Calm Mind from the likes of Hypno or Espeon. In addition to receiving the Calm Minds, Magmortar can soak any Bug attacks directed at either of the two, and then prepare a sweep.</p>

<p>Magmortar works well on teams that need an offensive powerhouse that can break down walls, however, remember that in order to have Magmortar deal the most damage, one must provide him with the correct support. Stealth Rock is a real cripple in Magmortar's side, stripping a quarter of his health on every switch-in. Chansey is also the number one enemy of a special Magmortar, and Regirock completely stops any sweeping that's attempted to be done by a mixed version. Priority also can completely stop Magmortar, such as Aqua Jet from Azumarill, and Sucker Punch from the likes of Honchkrow and Absol.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Flamethrower is obviously a good option if you want more power than Lava Plume, but dislike Fire Blast's accuracy. Like most Fire-types, Magmortar can use the Sunny Day/SolarBeam combination, but the rather low Speed make it an unappealing option. However, it does have the advantage of being able to use Cross Chop to fend off Chansey, although it will usually do less to everything else than Focus Blast will. If you desire a Grass attack that does not require set up, then Hidden Power Grass can be used to maim Quagsire and Gastrodon. Psychic hits Hariyama and Toxicroak, though has little use outside of that.</p>

<p>Earthquake can be used to cover Fire-types more effectively, although most Fire-types already take a big hit from Focus Blast and Cross Chop and Chansey doesn't have the defenses to take repeated hits from Cross Chop. Magmortar learns a variety of other physical moves including Flare Blitz, Mach Punch and Focus Punch, opening up the potential for a novelty Choice Band set. However, you are better off with Blaziken for that kind of set, who boasts a much higher Attack stat as well as a STAB on Fighting moves.</p>

<p>Counter and Focus Sash can net a surprise kill against a leading physical attacker. Confuse Ray is an option, but is not recommended. Toxic can wear down a counter, and Will-O-Wisp is also on offer if you want a more reliable way to burn your enemies than Lava Plume. Taunt can stop Chansey from using Softboiled, Thunder Wave, Toxic, etc. and also prevents the likes of Blaziken from setting up after they force Magmortar to switch out.</p>

[EVs]

<p>For the Choice Specs set, max out Special Attack and Speed. Your only real decision is whether to use Modest or Timid. Modest only allows for 265 Speed (264 with HP Ice IVs), so if you want anything higher you have to switch to a Timid nature. Timid allows Magmortar to outrun all neutral natured Base 95s such as Houndoom and Drapion.</p>

<p>On the Mixed Attacker, a spread of 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 6 Spe will allow you to 2HKO Regirock with Cross Chop 96% of the time with Stealth Rock, as well as OHKOing Chansey, and having an excellent chance of 2HKOing Hariyama with Fire Blast and Thunderbolt. This spread packs a lot more power, at the cost of not outrunng a lot of vital things (such as the Base 80 Speed tier).</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Magmortar is one of the most threatening forces in UU. With a 383 Special Attack stat, as well as a STAB Fire Blast and Thunderbolt to help it distinguish itself from other Fire-types, few things can take repeated abuse from Magmortar and live to tell the tale. Its excellent movepool makes it an unpredictable foe to face, and with the ability to rid itself of potential counters such as Chansey with Cross Chop, Milotic with Thunderbolt, and Altaria with Hidden Power Ice, finding a safe switch-in to Magmortar can be a daunting task indeed.</p>

<p>Most players shy away from Magmortar, preferring to use the likes of Houndoom as their Fire Special Sweeper or Blaziken as their Fire Physical Sweeper. While both Pokemon hold advantages over Magmortar, such as Houndoom's Dark-typing and higher Speed and Blaziken's STAB Superpower, Magmortar possesses things that both of these sweepers can only dream of. Unlike Houndoom or Blaziken, Magmortar does not struggle to deal with Milotic, as Thunderbolt can easily 2HKO the standard spread with or without Stealth Rock. On the other hand, Houndoom requires a Nasty Plot to 2HKO Milotic with its Dark Pulse, and while Blaziken has Superpower to hit Milotic on the switch with, it risks being outsped and OHKOed by a faster specimen due to its base 80 Speed. Utilizing Magmortar's strengths in Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, and even Hidden Power Ice allows you to distinguish it from its fellow Fire-types as a wall breaker or sweeper.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Thanks to its massive movepool, very few things fit the category of "Magmortar counter". Chansey walls special sets quite decently, as only a Focus Blast threatens Chansey. Regirock can take anything thrown at him, even Life Orb boosted Cross Chops fail to guarantee a 3HKO (though max Attack spread 2HKOs with Stealth Rock 96% of the time), making it perhaps the best counter for the mixed set, however, a Choice Specs Focus Blast will OHKO 67% of the time with Stealth Rock. Flash Fire Pokemon laugh at Fire Blast and Overheat, and switch-in and threaten Magmortar with a Dark Pulse (Houndoom) or Hypnosis (Ninetales). With Thick Fat, Hariyama can live even a Choice Specs Overheat and OHKO with Close Combat or Stone Edge (assuming Choice Band). As long as he's not running Hidden Power Grass, Gastrodon switches in freely and threaten Magmortar with a STAB Earthquake, although it must beware, as a Specs Focus Blast 2HKOs it 71% of the time. Azumarill can take anything the standard Magmortar throws at it (bar Thunderbolt) and OHKO it with a Choice Banded Aqua Jet, ignoring Magmortar's higher Speed stat.</p>

<p>Resistances and out-speeding Magmortar are the key to defeating it. Very rarely will you find a safe switch into it, even with resistances, switching-in is a daunting task.</p>
 
Ok a couple things I see immediately:

You definitely need to Talk about Nidoking and Blaziken in Opinion, because they are the main competetors for a Team slot with Wall breaking. And Talk about Typhlosion in the Opinion regarding the choice set, and the advantages + disadvantages of both (e.g. Blaziken has a STAB fighting attack, but Magmortar has Tbolt, and Typhlosion becomes less viable with SR taking a toll on its HP). Stuff like that.

You should also fix up the mixed set's EVs, because they are made for OU (outspeeding Jolly Ttar... and abomasnow).

Make the EVs 252 Atk/252 SpA/4Spe, so that Chansey cant switch in and hit you with Status or whatever.

Fire Blast vs Chansey:
32.29% - 38.07%
Followed by a Cross Chop vs Chansey:
70.40% - 83.18%

Works out perfectly. Chansey can not survive a Fire Blast + Cross chop from LO and max attacking stats even with min damage.

You outspeed all of the walls anyway.
 
Alright, I added those changes. It actually works out nicely, as it prevents Regirock from completely walling Magmortar's mixed set.
 

tennisace

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A sub-punch set is a must, it's one of the best Mixed attackers I've ever used in UU. It allows you to beat all the bulky waters if you can come in on something like Registeel sans EQ, get a Sub up while they switch in, and Thunderbolt away. It isn't the easiest thing to get in, but it's a bitch to force out. If you need the set I used, here it is:

Magmortar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 152 Atk/244 Spd/112 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Focus Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

I remember the EVs were the same as from the previous edit, the explanation is in there iirc.
 
Alright, I added those changes. It actually works out nicely, as it prevents Regirock from completely walling Magmortar's mixed set.
I think those changes should go in "opinion", not the Set Comments (though breif things like Magmortar having thunderbolt and no other Fire having that option can stay in SC).
 

macle

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1st set 1st paragraph 2nd sentence

Killing things with Magmortar is simple; Thunderbolt for bulky waters, HP Ice for Dragon-types such as Altaria, Focus Blast for Rock and Normal-types, and Fire Blast / Overheat decimates everything else.
 
A sub-punch set is a must, it's one of the best Mixed attackers I've ever used in UU. It allows you to beat all the bulky waters if you can come in on something like Registeel sans EQ, get a Sub up while they switch in, and Thunderbolt away. It isn't the easiest thing to get in, but it's a bitch to force out. If you need the set I used, here it is:

Magmortar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 152 Atk/244 Spd/112 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Focus Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

I remember the EVs were the same as from the previous edit, the explanation is in there iirc.
Wasn't that Bourbon's? I remember there was two. Either way, if I can't find them, I'll play-test it a bit to get a feel for it so my comments can be as accurate as possible.

I think those changes should go in "opinion", not the Set Comments (though breif things like Magmortar having thunderbolt and no other Fire having that option can stay in SC).
I moved the Choice comments to Opinion, but I think the mixed is good as it is, unless everyone believes it should be moved as well.

1st set 1st paragraph 2nd sentence

Killing things with Magmortar is simple; Thunderbolt for bulky waters, HP Ice for Dragon-types such as Altaria, Focus Blast for Rock and Normal-types, and Fire Blast / Overheat decimates everything else.
Uh...okay, fixing.
 

Havak

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You need to always type out Hidden Power [Type], so Hidden Power Ice in the set. Never type Hidden Power as 'HP' in an analysis. I noticed 3-4 instances of this at least, so just search for them and replace with Hidden Power where applicable.
 

LonelyNess

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Why you would waste Magmortar's perfectly amazing base 83 Speed which affords it the ability to outspeed neutral base 80's is beyond me.

24 SpA / 252 Atk / 232 Spe is a way better spread. Look at the following calculations for proof.

vs. 252 Def / 252 SpD Chansey:

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 160 - 189 (24.96% - 29.49%)

Cross Chop - 289 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (100 Base Power): 494 - 582 (77.07% - 90.80%)

That's a guaranteed 2HKO regardless of whether or not you have Stealth Rock.

vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spiritomb

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 252 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 214 - 253 (70.39% - 83.22%)

vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Spiritomb

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 346 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 156 - 184 (51.32% - 60.53%)

Guaranteed 2HKO on any variant of Spiritomb.

vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic

Thunderbolt - 321 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 200 - 236 (50.76% - 59.90%)

That's a 2HKO on all versions.... and the great thing about this version versus yours? It outspeeds the Life Orb variants. Against Slowbro it does just as well with its lower Special Defense.

Anyway, all of the questionable 2HKOs that might not have happened due to not using maximum SpA are all still 2HKOs... AND you get the added speed, meaning not only does this do just as well at wall breaking, but will even sweep better than the current set.

Long story short: use 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe with a neutral nature on the mixed set rather than 252 Atk / 252 SpA.
 

Legacy Raider

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vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic

Thunderbolt - 321 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 200 - 236 (50.76% - 59.90%)

That's a 2HKO on all versions.... and the great thing about this version versus yours? It outspeeds the Life Orb variants.
252 Spe Modest Miloitc - 261 Speed
232 Spe Mild Magmortar - 260 Speed

Moving 8 EVs from Attack (since the KO on Chansey is guaranteed with SR even with 244 EVs) will guarantee Magmortar outspeeds all Milotic not running a +speed nature.
 
Why you would waste Magmortar's perfectly amazing base 83 Speed which affords it the ability to outspeed neutral base 80's is beyond me.

24 SpA / 252 Atk / 232 Spe is a way better spread. Look at the following calculations for proof.

vs. 252 Def / 252 SpD Chansey:

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 160 - 189 (24.96% - 29.49%)

Cross Chop - 289 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (100 Base Power): 494 - 582 (77.07% - 90.80%)

That's a guaranteed 2HKO regardless of whether or not you have Stealth Rock.

vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spiritomb

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 252 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 214 - 253 (70.39% - 83.22%)

vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Spiritomb

Fire Blast - 321 Atk vs 346 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 156 - 184 (51.32% - 60.53%)

Guaranteed 2HKO on any variant of Spiritomb.

vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic

Thunderbolt - 321 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 200 - 236 (50.76% - 59.90%)

That's a 2HKO on all versions.... and the great thing about this version versus yours? It outspeeds the Life Orb variants. Against Slowbro it does just as well with its lower Special Defense.

Anyway, all of the questionable 2HKOs that might not have happened due to not using maximum SpA are all still 2HKOs... AND you get the added speed, meaning not only does this do just as well at wall breaking, but will even sweep better than the current set.

Long story short: use 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe with a neutral nature
on the mixed set rather than 252 Atk / 252 SpA.
It would help if you provided the 383 SpA Calcs, especially since some of these calcs are quite irrelevant after you see the max SpA calcs.

Chansey:
That only 2HKOes the Calm Variants, and many people use Bold now after figuring out the advantages of using Bold.

Spiritomb:
Well, 2HKOing is fine, but why 2HKO and lose 4 fire blast PP, when you can OHKO:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs Spiritomb: 83.88% - 99.01% [75% Chance to OHKO with SR]

Another thing: Your has a very high chance of losing to a Spiritomb if it switches in.
321 SpA Fire Blast vs +1 SpD Spiritomb: 47.37% - 55.59% [ 13% Chance to 2HKO]
Where as:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs +1 SpD Spiritomb: 56.25% - 66.45% [Always a 2HKO]

Milotic:
First of all, I dont think you outspeed an Offensive Milotic. Second of all, relying on prediction is much less preferred to 2HKOing everything with Fire Blast followed by a coverage move:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs (defensive) Milotic: 28.17% - 33.50%
Max SpA Thunderbolt vs Milotic: 60.41% - 71.07%

Milotic has a small chance of living (with 6% HP left), but you get the point.

Now for some more Pokemon that you lose KOs on:

Hariyama:
321 SpA Fire Blast vs Hariyama: 38.31% - 45.43%a
Followed by: 321 Thunderbolt vs Hariyama: 40.53% - 47.88%[3HKO, regardless of prediction or SR:/]
Now my turn:
383 SpA Fire Blast vs Hariyama: 45.66% - 54.12%
Thunderbolt vs Hariyama: 48.33% - 57.02% [VERY high chance to 2HKO with SR]

Crobat:
It's much harder to get SR up when Crobat is leading, so you cannot assume Stealth Rock for this Calc:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs Crobat: 102.37% - 120.47% [OHKO w/o SR]
321 SpA Fire Blast vs Crobat: 85.46% - 100.89% [2.56% to KO w/o SR]


Hitmontop:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs (max HP) Hitmontop: 83.06% - 98.01% [28% Chance to OHKO with SR, or always OHKOes with SR after a Life Orb recoil]<---not too impressive

Uxie:
Max SpA Fire Blast vs (76 SpD Careful (Split defenses) Uxie: 51.98% - 61.30% [100% 2HKO]
321 SpA Fire Blast vs same Uxie: 43.50% - 51.69%[60% to 2HKO with SR]

I could go through more, but "long story short": Mention the suggested EVS, but Imo keep Max / Max Attacks.
 

LonelyNess

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If by many, you mean barely 18% of people, then yes "many people are using bold now."

The chance of a 2HKO on Hariyama (the only meaningful kill that you miss out on) does not make up for the fact that your Magmortar is ass slow and all together less effective than the one with more Speed. I'd rather it be able to outpace more threats than be able to make a 2HKO on one extra Pokemon.... especially when the majority of that power is superfluous on any number of Pokemon you'd be attempting to hit. And I'm sure the majority of people would agree with me.

If anything, the max / max set should be the "other options" spread, considering it only does one thing better: 2HKOs Hariyama... whereas my spread does a whole host of things better, such as outspeeding the entire neutral base 80 crowd, which is a ridiculously large speed tier.
 
Mention Magmortar as "it" or "Magmortar." I believe it was stated before that you cannot assume the gender people will use.
 

Caelum

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The gender pronoun doesn't matter as long as you are consistent throughout the entire analysis. The preference for a Pokemon capable of being both genders is to use "he"; but it doesn't matter as long as you are consistent.
 
Alright, both LonelyNess and HeYsUp both made convincing arguments for their spread, so I don't know which to choose. If need be, should both be mentioned in the set? Or should one be chosen and the other be mentioned in EVs? I am leaning towards LN's, since Magmortar's Speed is another reason to use him over Blaziken.

@Sikh Assasin

I did mention Magmortar as "it" throughout the analysis, however, there might have been a few leftover mentions from the old analysis (which I used a bit). They used Magmortar as a "he" in the old analysis, but I did make sure to change that. Unless of course, I missed a few?
 
If by many, you mean barely 18% of people, then yes "many people are using bold now."

The chance of a 2HKO on Hariyama (the only meaningful kill that you miss out on) does not make up for the fact that your Magmortar is ass slow and all together less effective than the one with more Speed. I'd rather it be able to outpace more threats than be able to make a 2HKO on one extra Pokemon.... especially when the majority of that power is superfluous on any number of Pokemon you'd be attempting to hit. And I'm sure the majority of people would agree with me.

If anything, the max / max set should be the "other options" spread, considering it only does one thing better: 2HKOs Hariyama... whereas my spread does a whole host of things better, such as outspeeding the entire neutral base 80 crowd, which is a ridiculously large speed tier.
People are just learning the advantages of Bold vs Calm Chansey with UU being relatively new. Either way, not KOing someone with a Bold Chansey is definately a bad thing. Not to mention, you took the 12% of Max Speed Milotic into acount. The Chansey is at least 18%, so by your logic the Milotic's speed doesnt even matter. Which is it?

You also seemed to throw aside half of the calcs, especially on Spiritomb.

Up there with Hariyama, Chansey, and Milotic (importance wise) is Spiritomb, who is definately worth beating. What good is a wall Breaker who loses to the most Common spin blocker in the metagame?

And "I'd rather it be able to outpace more threats than be able to make a 2HKO...".

What threats? Most Blaziken run the mixed set, (with 20 Spe EVs), while Medicham is usually scarfed, and Feraligatr does not only chance to survive a Thunderbolt from your set (w/o SR), but is put in Torrent / Leichi range with a DD.

Not to mention, with Feraligatr being the only notable Pokemon you outspeed with your extra EVs, im positive it is more improtant to be able to deal with Milotic and Spiritomb better (who are MUCH more common, and important) which the Max/Max set does much better. Not to mention Hariyama and 18% of Chanseys.

The advantage it has over Blaziken is the fact that it has Thunderbolt as the main part, while also a higher Special Attack stat, Speed is near irrelevent (as long as it outspeeds walls) for wall breakers.

So imo, definately keep 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe. With the other set in OO, and mention it outspeeds Feraligatr and the odd Choice Band Blaziken or Choice Specs Venusaurs...those are ALL very uncommon but idk.
 
1st set 1st paragraph 2nd sentence

Killing things with Magmortar is simple; Thunderbolt for bulky waters, HP Ice for Dragon-types such as Altaria, Focus Blast for Rock and Normal-types, and Fire Blast / Overheat for everything else.
Minor nitpick again; you are going to want it to be parallel.
 

cim

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Too much hype. I read the first sentence and actually groaned in real life at the hype.

While Magmortar is notorious for its magnificent Special Attack
Stop.

At a glance, Altaria is one of the only things to safely switch-in without instantly being KOed
The. (ok not everything is "instantly koed" by every attack come on it can't use every attack on the same turn)

While mixed Magmortar is a force to be feared,
Hype.
 
Alright CIM, I toned down some of the hype, although I don't see your problem with the SubPunch reference. I'm not saying SubPunch is not common or unviable, I'm just saying it's been around for a while.
 

cim

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Oh, my bad lol. Sorry I was a bit harsh :(

I'll do a grammar sweep quick later to make up for it, k ^_^
 
You should change this though either way:
Even though mixed Magmortar is a very accomplished wall-breaker, many players prefer faster, less vulnerable sweepers such as Nidoking and Blaziken over Magmortar.
Only nidoking is faster, and barely. Speed is not usually an issue for a wall breaker. Either way, both of them run minimum Speed. Remove faster imo.
 
Sorry for double posting, but alot of changes haven't been updated, like the one I posted above this post.

Anyway, on to more important things. I'm mainly posting to say that I think this set:

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Mild
EVs: 24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]

Should look like this:

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
EVs: 60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]

I don't like Expert Belt as an option, you are on a timer anyway with Stealth Rock, and Expert Belt makes you lose out on many KOes. When you're switching in with 25% damage done, you aren't living through anything tbh.

The new spread is still faster, but I lowered the speed a bit so that it would reach a better (imo) benchmark, and maintaining a good chance to beat the Pokemon in didnt without the extra attack. It outspeeds Honchkrow, Blaziken, and Absol now.
 
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