(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Samtendo09]

I dunno I think shoving out their best Pokemon the millisecond they can is kind of....dumb?
Like oh okay I guess the finale of this battle will be your weaker Pokemon. Great.


It just makes sense from a gamefreel perspective to put the best for last.

This sums up my thoughts, and I agree with this.

In SwSh and SV especially, I like that they send out their ace that uses Dynamax/Terastal last especially because environmentally, the game has a special final showdown theme for the Gym Leader in both cases with crowds cheering.

I like to think of the battles in-game there that I do as a performance of sorts, so I save my Dynamax/Terastal use for that very moment: both me and my opponent unleash the super mechanic and do a showdown between two Dynamaxed/Terastallized Pokemon going at it.

It's why I find Brycen's tendency to practically never send out his Beartic last in BW1 to be frustrating that nowadays I grab a Stoutland to force it to be last using Roar. In Gen 5 that final Pokemon Gym Leader theme is epic as hell and I just think it feels right to keep the ace as that final Pokemon from an environmental storytelling standpoint.

IMHO this only works in non-game stories or if the non-ace Pokémon are also good team members and not fodders to take care off quickly, because if the players can snowball with a mechanic, they can and will do it, running risk of losing their own immersion since they were never explicitly told of an old tradition that the Gym Leaders and the likes send their trump card last.

That said, being games for kids isn’t a valid excuse for excruciatingly easy difficulty, because a game aimed for children can still educate them in a way of putting various challenges by putting decent synergy of Abilities, moveset and their types from the opponents’ part, encouraging them to put a good synergy to their team as well. Nothing stops them from using the mechanic earlier, at risk of losing them against the boss’ last Pokémon.

It doesn’t need to be 1-to-1 to competitive movesets, moreso a subtle “puzzle” and a theme, beyond just monotype for sake of doing it, where using just super effective moves isn’t going to help you as the boss put in hazards or other field-changing effects like Tailwind. Having more than one token Double Battle would also help a lot to make the kids more familiar with how VGC works, as that format uses Doubles with small but important difference in “bring six, pick four” rule.

 

[Coronis]

This uh, Bulbapedia thing really tickled me. I’m sure it might piss me off at some point the next time I’m using it to look some stuff up but rn just giggling at the reacts in this thread lol.

 

[R_N]

IMHO this only works in non-game stories or if the non-ace Pokémon are also good team members and not fodders to take care off quickly, because if the players can snowball with a mechanic, they can and will do it, running risk of losing their own immersion since they were never explicitly told of an old tradition that the Gym Leaders and the likes send their trump card last.

That said, being games for kids isn’t a valid excuse for excruciatingly easy difficulty, because a game aimed for children can still educate them in a way of putting various challenges by putting decent synergy of Abilities, moveset and their types from the opponents’ part, encouraging them to put a good synergy to their team as well. Nothing stops them from using the mechanic earlier, at risk of losing them against the boss’ last Pokémon.

It doesn’t need to be 1-to-1 to competitive movesets, moreso a subtle “puzzle” and a theme, beyond just monotype for sake of doing it, where using just super effective moves isn’t going to help you as the boss put in hazards or other field-changing effects like Tailwind. Having more than one token Double Battle would also help a lot to make the kids more familiar with how VGC works, as that format uses Doubles with small but important difference in “bring six, pick four” rule.

I think it works fine because you get to see their strong pokemon have extra aesthetic things and go 'wow neat'
I think the number of people who see "best for last" and go "oh this is how i need to play!" are pretty low. Not like people are out there seeing low team numbers and going "I have to use 3 pokemon actually", any more than normal where people just steam roll with their starter.


And while we're here sending out the boss earlier doesn't make it harder, you still deal with it the same way and then you're going to steam roll the final, weaker Pokemon. The almost-parody example of this is probably Bugsy who will often send out Scyther second in GSC and its like great now I'm fighting a Kakuna last. Real great climax to this battle.


These are always easy games for babies that they have little in making "hard" or "puzzles" 90% of the time so may as well opt for entertainment and lean into the aesthetic of the guy's highest leveled Pokemon being saved for last, getting the fancy theme, super mechanic (if applicable) and little extra dialog. And even if they WERE interested in this, with lovingly crafted level curves and movesets and gimmick battles to actively challenge you, you KNOW they would still be doing the same thing because they want these battles to have extra spectacle and oomph so you end on a notable climax.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I dunno I think shoving out their best Pokemon the millisecond they can is kind of....dumb?
Like oh okay I guess the finale of this battle will be your weaker Pokemon. Great.


It just makes sense from a gamefreel perspective to put the best for last.

This.

Some times, Rom hacking gives a perspective that people wouldn't have otherwise. I had Milo be able to D-Max both Flapple/Appletun and Eldegoss in his Gym Battle when I was modding SwSh.

Sure enough, he sent out Flapple second-to-last because it was the best matchup available against whatever I had out at the time... And then out came Eldegoss after a D-Max Flapple. It looked as bad as you'd expect.

The real problem is the Super Mechanics, they raise the stakes in a way that it's just not the same once the big threat is gone. Even in Showdown, when the opponent's Tera/Mega is down, the battle's tension dissipates a lot. It doesn't matter if there are other threatening mons around, because things are more straightforward without that ace in the wings.

The best workaround is to strengthen the rest of the team in battles like these.

For example, Kabu throwing out Wisps like candy is good because it disrupts sweeps. Wattson is also a great example of how to not let a single mon roflstomp everything.

The AI being able to switch would also be good, but... At least pivoting moves allow them to do it if I must.

I still think Glimmora being send first and Tera anyways would have been an interesting twist fpr Geeta, even if just to shake things up a bit.

That would be the best option for a lot of reasons.

 

[R_N]

This.

Some times, Rom hacking gives a perspective that people wouldn't have otherwise. I had Milo be able to D-Max both Flapple/Appletun and Eldegoss in his Gym Battle when I was modding SwSh.

Sure enough, he sent out Flapple second-to-last because it was the best matchup available against whatever I had out at the time... And then out came Eldegoss after a D-Max Flapple. It looked as bad as you'd expect.

The real problem is the Super Mechanics, they raise the stakes in a way that it's just not the same once the big threat is gone. Even in Showdown, when the opponent's Tera/Mega is down, the battle's tension dissipates a lot. It doesn't matter if there are other threatening mons around, because things are more straightforward without that ace in the wings.

The best workaround is to strengthen the rest of the team in battles like these.

For example, Kabu throwing out Wisps like candy is good because it disrupts sweeps. Wattson is also a great example of how to not let a single mon roflstomp everything.

The AI being able to switch would also be good, but... At least pivoting moves allow them to do it if I must.


That would be the best option for a lot of reasons.

Honestly even without super mechanics and with generally stronger teams, it still feels slightly deflating.

We'll put aside rando rival battles or mid game gyms or lolBugsy. Those are too easy to peck away at. How about Cynthia? I think we can all agree that she's a pretty solid team. High level, decent moves, and an eclectic but generally strong team. & there's no super mechanic, of course.

Garchomp still stands above the rest of it, and will often be the problem with you due to it being higher leveled and very strong. You need an answer to it. if it comes out early, which I believe in both DP & BDSP it can (I have recollections of facing Roserade & Milotic last on various runs), then...well beating it has probably wrapped up the rest of the battle. You beat her strongest Pokemon, you probably have annoying-but-manageable threats remaining. If you wound up burning through resources to handle it..but also the inverse situation of it being saved for last means you probably would have had less resources available and possibly a team that was more roughed up.
Obviously there's going to be a lot of variance based on your specific team and the CPU's specific team and what you did/did not prioritize and maybe if you even had items to begin with (haha who would forget to buy full restores before fighting the league thats crazy haha anyway) and even some random luck. But on the whole the ace being sent out early is probably not going to make the battle harder...so just saving it for last, trying to bank on the player getting a little roughed up (if they care about that) and adding extra pizzazz where possible (more distinct dialog, the super mechanic, a song change, etc) seems fine.





And if you did happen to have an lolEZGG answer to it, well, it's going to be deflating either way.

 

[Bakugames]

I don't think the ai needs to switch a lot/break from the order that much. the teams just need to be better imo. I think switching between the non-aces is fine, and ideally youd have some counters to certain strategies before going in with your ace for highest impact and a boss like challenge after you roughed up the player.

i think glimmora on first kingambit as an ace as many people say is a bit too competitive brained and also kinda lame? geeta has a lot of connections to glim and its not even a bad pokemon lol it hits like a truck. her issue would just be the other pokemon which dont scale up well. put kingambit on fourth, thats enough to be a stopgap without feeling excessive and give glimm a better tera, thats all you have to do for these two

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Honestly even without super mechanics and with generally stronger teams, it still feels slightly deflating.

We'll put aside rando rival battles or mid game gyms or lolBugsy. Those are too easy to peck away at. How about Cynthia? I think we can all agree that she's a pretty solid team. High level, decent moves, and an eclectic but generally strong team. & there's no super mechanic, of course.

Garchomp still stands above the rest of it, and will often be the problem with you due to it being higher leveled and very strong. You need an answer to it. if it comes out early, which I believe in both DP & BDSP it can (I have recollections of facing Roserade & Milotic last on various runs), then...well beating it has probably wrapped up the rest of the battle. You beat her strongest Pokemon, you probably have annoying-but-manageable threats remaining. If you wound up burning through resources to handle it..but also the inverse situation of it being saved for last means you probably would have had less resources available and possibly a team that was more roughed up.
Obviously there's going to be a lot of variance based on your specific team and the CPU's specific team and what you did/did not prioritize and maybe if you even had items to begin with (haha who would forget to buy full restores before fighting the league thats crazy haha anyway) and even some random luck. But on the whole the ace being sent out early is probably not going to make the battle harder...so just saving it for last, trying to bank on the player getting a little roughed up (if they care about that) and adding extra pizzazz where possible (more distinct dialog, the super mechanic, a song change, etc) seems fine.





And if you did happen to have an lolEZGG answer to it, well, it's going to be deflating either way.

Using the example of Cynthia's Garchomp, if the AI could switch, it'd be fine.

Garchomp coming in early and punching holes through the player's team can be fine because even if it goes down, you might lose your answer to other significant threats like Lucario. The role is changed, but it still works.

Super mechanics just amplify the role of aces to the point they often eclipse the rest of the team. Which isn't a problem by itself, unless the rest is just a bunch of setup fodder.

Currently, we're getting the worst scenario.

Most major battles consist of absolute mooks, an exploitable super mechanic, toothless aces, bad AI, poor movesets, and little to no strategic value whatsoever.

I'm not advocating for the kind of "difficulty" rom hacks usually implement, but the design philosophy of these games has been clearly getting worse in a lot of areas.

 

[Samtendo09]

Using the example of Cynthia's Garchomp, if the AI could switch, it'd be fine.

Garchomp coming in early and punching holes through the player's team can be fine because even if it goes down, you might lose your answer to other significant threats like Lucario. The role is changed, but it still works.

Super mechanics just amplify the role of aces to the point they often eclipse the rest of the team. Which isn't a problem by itself, unless the rest is just a bunch of setup fodder.

Currently, we're getting the worst scenario.

Most major battles consist of absolute mooks, an exploitable super mechanic, toothless aces, bad AI, poor movesets, and little to no strategic value whatsoever.

I'm not advocating for the kind of "difficulty" rom hacks usually implement, but the design philosophy of these games has been clearly getting worse in a lot of areas.

Wait, toothless aces? Could you give me some most blatant examples?

I do agree on the rest, and I’m unhappy to see that even after years and years of experiences, GF couldn’t figure out a decent AI for the opponents.

 

[pika pal]

It reeks of "some higher up either just came into power or has recently acquired way too much free time and is going to screw things up for the real users like what always happens when higher ups make arbitrary changes for no good reason."

Especially with internet/fan communities I feel like this is something that happens, where higher positioned people want some big event/overhaul to attach their name to, even as a lateral move, just to ensure they stay connected to something people will always be talking about.

I don't think the ai needs to switch a lot/break from the order that much. the teams just need to be better imo. I think switching between the non-aces is fine, and ideally youd have some counters to certain strategies before going in with your ace for highest impact and a boss like challenge after you roughed up the player.

i think glimmora on first kingambit as an ace as many people say is a bit too competitive brained and also kinda lame? geeta has a lot of connections to glim and its not even a bad pokemon lol it hits like a truck. her issue would just be the other pokemon which dont scale up well. put kingambit on fourth, thats enough to be a stopgap without feeling excessive and give glimm a better tera, thats all you have to do for these two

I've advocated this a lot before: Kingambit is a much more thematically fitting Ace for Geeta than Glimmora, irrespective of the in-battle roles the two mons have among competitive Singles. The Gym Leaders as well as some interactions like Penny's strong-armed "hiring" by the League all have a consistent theme that Geeta is an unpopular and very demanding boss, even if not strictly incompetent. Kingambit's flavor is very in-line with Geeta, being someone who's in a position of power seemingly more because she's strong than particularly intelligent or capable (Geeta is #1 Champ but also runs the League, Kingambit is the strongest of Bisharp packs but also an incompetent strategist that just overwhelms opponents). Even taking Supreme Overlord out of the equation, there's a synergy there. Not to mention Geeta's whole "incapable of holding back" talk would make more sense ending on a mon that just steamrolls its opponents with no finesse, and Kingambit's a big and imposing 3rd stage (cross gen or not) so it's plenty suited for the role aesthetically.

By comparison, what the hell does Glimmora have to do with Geeta? Aside from being the person to ask about entering Area Zero, Geeta doesn't have much of anything to do with the Terastal Phenomenon in the story, which they obviously want you to connect Glimmora to with (appearing in both Area Zero depths and the Kitakami Crystal Pool, being used to craft the Tera Blast TM as the sole material). Glimmora seems more fitting as the Ace of someone like a hypothetical Briar battle, or the Professor-bar-Paradoxes or something. This on top of it having a signature move like Mortal Spin or its Toxic Debris ability that seem more strategically minded in that they're made for a grind game and outlasting an opponent, in contrast to the Kingambit talk above.

This is on top of the fact that Kingambit is practically DESIGNED to be the kind of Ace that an AI Terastal-using Opponent would run: It's a giant beat stick without much dimension to mess up with the simple choice making, Tera can remove some of its crippling weaknesses for in-game (no Fire or Ground and reduced Fighting if it goes Tera Dark, nevermind "off" types), and it's meant to come out late in the fight (Sucker Punch or not as an Egg move, Supreme Overlord is still a thing) so saving it for the end isn't arbitrarily because it's the Ace. I get the talk about stuff like Cynthia since there's little reason it benefits from coming in sooner or later if it's going to stay out until it faints anyway, but Geeta has a mon that not only fits her character better but actively fits the way Aces get used in general despite not being used for such by anyone in game.

 

[Bakugames]

Sorry if this is theorymon, but if you could tinker geeta, I think you could do something like this (in order of who would be sent)

- Tinted lens - Silver Powder
First Impression - X Scissor - Throat Chop - Axe Kick
Swap espathra because we've already seen an espathra foe and its not really doing much for geeta character or teambuild wise. This guy is easy to kill but is guaranteed to hit hard, a fine first mon

- Sitrus berry
Salt Cure - Recover - Rock Slide - Explosion
The only mon with recovery in the team. Plays like a suboptimal/easier to exploit ou set (so the player isnt malding lol) but its here to waste your resources, be annoying and once its ready to die it explodes and hopefully takes something out with it. Gogoat was replaced because... i like gogoat but why gogoat lol. also geeta being a weird pseudo rock/steel user is fun. she looks like she likes rocks and crystals.

- Sitrus berry
Thunderwave - Hex - Dazzling Gleam - Flash Cannon
Annoying pest number 2. Hard to kill, disrupts everything with thunderwave, wasting your resources. Continues the chip damage hell that garg began except the chip is much bigger LOL. amping up to the heavy hitters.

- Wind Power - Magnet
Tailwind - Electro Ball - Discharge - Air Slash
Since Kingambit is expected to come up, I swap veluza for another mon to get rid of fighting types. Wind power/Tailwind does give it an opening to be one shot but it boosts up kingambit anyway so it's not as stupid as the ai setting up self boosts when ready to die (also cant be spammed). After that its just a straight up attacker. gets rid of any water mons and fighting mons that got brought up by garg, hits hard. fast and frail etc, greatly helped by gholds thunderwave spam

- Blackglasses
its a kingambit
its kingambit. supreme overlord iron head kowtow cleave wow yay wahoo yippie. her pseudo ace. sorry it only has 5 supreme overlord stacks instead of 6 i guess

- Power herb - Tera rock
Meteor beam - Energy ball - Sludge Wave - Earth Power
Meteor beam go brrrrrr. Energy ball

This is not an optimized team, because I think it's fine for a champion to have exploits that you can plan around. Ground is pretty good, thought it needs to watch out to not get chipped randomly and lose to glimmoras energy ball or a surprise tailwind gambit. Really, you can take geetas team anywhere because right now it has no real character or teambuilding synergy, I just prioritize character and a fun fight over extreme difficulty

 

[R_N]

Honestly every time I've seen Geeta fight (excluding her BB rematch) she typically sent out Kingambit 4th, to the point where I wondered if she had a special AI routine for it and it was like "yeah this gets the point across, watch out!"

if that was just coincidental, it's pretty funny

 

[swinubfan44]

All you guys complaining about AI/other battles in the main game issues - there is a very easy solution.

Play Pokemon Rejuvenation & Reborn. These are how GameFreak should have made Pokemon games.

 

[DrrT]

Honestly I don't think the team selection of Geeta is bad, it does have thematic sense as she has Pokemon from the different parts of Paldea including Area Zero- trough Espatha and Veluza being previously on gym leaders' teams undermines that. It's just so obvious Glimmora's ability is not suited for the last mon, and Kingambit being in the team is such a wasted opportunity to not use to its full potential. Obviously even GF realized this as they changed the team for the DLC, but as I said I think the best solution would just to use Glimmora first Tera included. You get Tera Rock tepresentation, is unexpected and would easily be memorable because the ability actually matters. You could even remove Kingambit and it would still be more realisti she "doesn't hold back". The healing before her battle doesn't help tho.

I don't have much of an issue with her as most people seem to do, mostly because unlike other Champions she is not supposed to be the last in-game boss, she is in fact nowhere near it if we go by levels. I'm more annoyed by Nemona still using her starter as ace in the last battle and not really having a much changed team because it makes it harder to believe she is truly going all out, she obviously had other team before the player started the game yet the mons more associated with her are from the last run (Pawmot and the starter) or are nowhere to be seen in the battle (Tauros). It is nice that she has a rare Dudunsparce and I still consider her among the best rivals character-wise, but her final team just wasn't very exciting.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I don't think the ai needs to switch a lot/break from the order that much. the teams just need to be better imo. I think switching between the non-aces is fine, and ideally youd have some counters to certain strategies before going in with your ace for highest impact and a boss like challenge after you roughed up the player.

i think glimmora on first kingambit as an ace as many people say is a bit too competitive brained and also kinda lame? geeta has a lot of connections to glim and its not even a bad pokemon lol it hits like a truck. her issue would just be the other pokemon which dont scale up well. put kingambit on fourth, thats enough to be a stopgap without feeling excessive and give glimm a better tera, thats all you have to do for these two

Honestly, the most blatant thing with Geeta and a lot of these battles is the lack of any kind of strategy.

She uses Veluza and Gogoat. She won't be hard. Ever. But not doing the bare minimum to be competent is even worse.

Glimmora as a lead and Kingambit as the last mon fix a LOT of her issues strategy-wise as it instantly becomes a more memorable battle since you have to actually think about how to tackle it, even with her sticking to Tera Glimmora.

Good battles in Pokémon don't need to be necessarily difficult. They need to be memorable and have strategic value.

Tate and Liza did it in Emerald with a box of scraps. There's no excuse.

Wait, toothless aces? Could you give me some most blatant examples?

I'll try to restrain myself a bit, but there are seriously too many examples.

SV
Larry has a Staraptor with 2 (two) moves. In Gym 5. Normal/Flying isn't even a hard combination to resist.
Grusha has an Altaria as an ace. It immediately Terastallizes into the worst defensive type in the game. Dismal.

SwSh
Opal has a gimmick battle where you can get stat boosts for free and her ace is an Alcremie whose strongest move is Draining Kiss. At Lv. 38. No, Dynamax does not fix this.
Also, shoutouts to Raihan and his physical Duraludon. This is why you can't beat Leon, dummy!

XY
The whole game is known for most of its leaders not even having a full moveset. I rest my case. Korrina doesn't even use her Lucario in her Gym battle.

 

[pika pal]

Honestly, the most blatant thing with Geeta and a lot of these battles is the lack of any kind of strategy.

She uses Veluza and Gogoat. She won't be hard. Ever. But not doing the bare minimum to be competent is even worse.

Glimmora as a lead and Kingambit as the last mon fix a LOT of her issues strategy-wise as it instantly becomes a more memorable battle since you have to actually think about how to tackle it, even with her sticking to Tera Glimmora.

Good battles in Pokémon don't need to be necessarily difficult. They need to be memorable and have strategic value.

Tate and Liza did it in Emerald with a box of scraps. There's no excuse.

I'll try to restrain myself a bit, but there are seriously too many examples.

SV
Larry has a Staraptor with 2 (two) moves. In Gym 5. Normal/Flying isn't even a hard combination to resist.
Grusha has an Altaria as an ace. It immediately Terastallizes into the worst defensive type in the game. Dismal.

SwSh
Opal has a gimmick battle where you can get stat boosts for free and her ace is an Alcremie whose strongest move is Draining Kiss. At Lv. 38. No, Dynamax does not fix this.
Also, shoutouts to Raihan and his physical Duraludon. This is why you can't beat Leon, dummy!

XY
The whole game is known for most of its leaders not even having a full moveset. I rest my case. Korrina doesn't even use her Lucario in her Gym battle.

To be fair to Raihan, his issue is being saddled with Duraludon in the first place. Even Archaludon, an evolution made as an "attempt 2" only has like 3 Special moves by level up and one is its signature move. Maybe if Gamefreak had less of a chip about giving mons TM moves or rubbed 2 brain cells together when making Duraludon people wouldn't have such easy mockery of a big wig (the problem here is the mon and not simply one instance of it).

As for Grusha, he's probably the worst for me because Altaria literally does nothing with the Tera besides having an Ice type move, which isn't exclusive to him but stands out given how ineffective the mon is. Altaria is a defensive mon given the worst typing, instead of using an offensive mon to go for broke like Electrode or Barraskewda or Hariyama or something. The only overlap I see is Ice's sole self-resistance being an inverse of the double weakness, but Altaria doesn't have a single move that tickles a Steel type, which you have options for and would already benefit from bringing against the other Ice types, so it doesn't even change your counterplay.

By comparison the other Aces at least have a logic to them

• Katy is Gym 1 but in the rematch where she DOES something, Ursaring carries moves thanks to Phys-Normal privilege that hit at least some common Bug Resists like High Horsepower for Fire/Rocks, and Fury Cutter takes advantage of the "Minimum 60 BP" effect of Tera STAB
• Brassius's Sudowoodo carries Rock Throw to present a threat to the most accessible Grass weaknesses for early game, Sturdy to ensure it lives 1 turn, and Trailblaze to patch up its speed so it can use that STAB. 2 move syndrome aside there's a logic to how it's built.
• Iono's Mismagius is one of the most famous for a reason, synergizing the Base mon and Tera type to eliminate weakness damage and becoming a Stat Check since Mismagius is a jump from the 2nd stages you'd have by that level. Charge Beam again benefits slightly from the 60 BP minimum, and gives Mismagius Snowball potential alongside Confuse Ray/Hex for neutral damage on Electric Immunities. This one I actually really like because Mismagius potentially accumulating Charge Beam buffs means that item spam to heal won't stalemate or outright undo her progress against the team: If you get 2 shot by Mismagius and have to heal, she could stack more boosts and make the situation worse, which gives some teeth even with the usual player advantage
• Kofu's Crabominable is lame and lacks Ice STAB to even benefit becoming water the way Sudowoodo utilized
• Larry I'll give the 2 move thing stinks but Flying at least gets over the usual Fighting concerns, and for stat check purposes, Larry is the only main-game Leader that uses Same-Type Tera damage, which fittingly is boring but practical
• Ryme's Toxitricity is more about being on theme but at least has moves suited to a Double Battle with Punk Rock Hyper Voice and Discharge for Status/Hex synergy.
• Tulip is similarly boring but again, base type hits SE on the common answer Dark types.

Grusha might be the worst of the Paldea leaders because he actively makes a mon worse by adhering to the Tera Gimmick rather than it just existing there or having a vague attempt at a strat.

 

[Leif98]

XY
The whole game is known for most of its leaders not even having a full moveset. I rest my case. Korrina doesn't even use her Lucario in her Gym battle.

The second gym can be tough in nuzlockes, the rest are pretty much a joke.
What makes this funny is that there are a decent amount of normal NPCs in XY that can actually pose somewhat of a challenge, especially compared to the leaders

 

[Yung Dramps]

>Calls its campaign "World of Light"
>Ultra Necrozma is not a boss
Still seething about this six years later

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Larry I'll give the 2 move thing stinks but Flying at least gets over the usual Fighting concerns, and for stat check purposes, Larry is the only main-game Leader that uses Same-Type Tera damage, which fittingly is boring but practical

Larry uses Normal Tera on his Gym battle. His E4 Tera is Flying Flamigo.

Ryme's Toxitricity is more about being on theme but at least has moves suited to a Double Battle with Punk Rock Hyper Voice and Discharge for Status/Hex synergy.

I'm pretty sure the AI won't pick Hyper Voice because both Discharge and Hex have more base power than it after Tera, but either way, it's mitigated by the spread damage penalty.

Discharge also sounds nice on paper, but not as the only way for the entire team to inflict status conditions.

So basically, her Toxtricity is a Hex bot with no status support, and it's a bad ace to begin with because it neither has the speed nor the bulk to mount a comeback.

It's the 7th gym, give it Boomburst at least, geez.

 

[pika pal]

Larry uses Normal Tera on his Gym battle. His E4 Tera is Flying Flamigo.

I mixed points a bit but I was referring to the Normal Same-Type Tera since Staraptor is Normal/Flying.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I mixed points a bit but I was referring to the Normal Same-Type Tera since Staraptor is Normal/Flying.

Yeah, but that makes it vulnerable to Fighting, so it's objectively worse in context.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

How about Cynthia? I think we can all agree that she's a pretty solid team. High level, decent moves, and an eclectic but generally strong team. & there's no super mechanic, of course.

Garchomp still stands above the rest of it, and will often be the problem with you due to it being higher leveled and very strong. You need an answer to it. if it comes out early, which I believe in both DP & BDSP it can (I have recollections of facing Roserade & Milotic last on various runs), then...well beating it has probably wrapped up the rest of the battle.

My experience has shown me that Cynthia can send Garchomp out early in DP but not in BDSP.

This is actually one of the specific cases that stood out to me for the worst when I was playing BDSP. When you're facing off against a monotype gym leader, forcing the ace to be saved for last isn't really a huge deal. But when you're facing off against a trainer with a more balanced team, this just kneecaps their ability to counter according to type match-ups. Garchomp is actually less threatening when he's never going to get the jump on the members of your team that he could actually tear through, and you know that all you have to do is make sure that an ice beam is in your pocket for the finish.

I dunno I think shoving out their best Pokemon the millisecond they can is kind of....dumb?
Like oh okay I guess the finale of this battle will be your weaker Pokemon. Great.


It just makes sense from a gamefreel perspective to put the best for last.

See, this I actually disagree with from top to bottom.

Personally, what fires the gamer neurons the most for me is when I see an NPC do something that makes me think "that was a good play" or "that's what I would do." And things as basic as them watching you do a Thunderbolt, and then immediately switching into a ground type or a Volt Absorb on the next turn to counter you is a pretty straightforward example of exactly that. Scripting the AI to instead refuse to ever do that for their strongest team member doesn't make the battle feel more dramatic; it makes it feel more fake.

Part of the reason why Blue/Green in FRLG and Cynthia in DPPt felt like more formidable opponents than most in those games wasn't just having stronger, better balanced teams, but also being more capable of actually leveraging their advantages. Most other trainers in those games will never switch because they don't even have an advantageous opportunity to do so. Those two will, and into any of their team members if they think it gives them the best edge.

I know on some level it's kind of pointless to argue about how best to script the AI so that battles "feel" meaningful, as in the end all you can really do is add just a few more layers in the process of deducing proper counter-play anyway. ("Better drop this guy's HP low enough to KO on the next turn, but not too low to activate the Full Restore." Like, let's be real. This never has been and never will be that deep.) But I just feel like things play out the best when the opponent is giving the impression that they're just trying to beat you the best way that they know how.

 

[DreamPrince]

>Calls its campaign "World of Light"
>Ultra Necrozma is not a boss
Still seething about this six years later

I wonder if its because TPC is very protective of the brand, and was perhaps were concerned about how Ultra Necrozma may be percieved as a " villian "? Sakurai has mentioned that he almost didn't get Pokemon characters in Smash 64 because TPC was conerned about things like seeing Pikachu holding a gun or hotting a Mario. Its a miracle we have 9 Pokemon characters in Smash.

 

[R_N]

I wonder if its because TPC is very protective of the brand, and was perhaps were concerned about how Ultra Necrozma may be percieved as a " villian "? Sakurai has mentioned that he almost didn't get Pokemon characters in Smash 64 because TPC was conerned about things like seeing Pikachu holding a gun or hotting a Mario. Its a miracle we have 9 Pokemon characters in Smash.

I'm guessing it's more because they did not actually care about being thematic & they didn't want that many bosses.

So in addition to the 2 new OCs & the Hands as minibosses (who they're already using for Classic mode) you had 2 returning smash originals (one of which got to reuse assets), 2 third party bosses and then 2 Nintendo bosses (one of which ALSO got to reuse assets)
Marx is really the only one who could have gotten the boot, but regardless of what lead to him being chosen honestly I think they probably just didn't think about having a Pokemon boss like they did with SSE.

 

[Ironmage]

I'm guessing it's more because they did not actually care about being thematic & they didn't want that many bosses.

So in addition to the 2 new OCs & the Hands as minibosses (who they're already using for Classic mode) you had 2 returning smash originals (one of which got to reuse assets), 2 third party bosses and then 2 Nintendo bosses (one of which ALSO got to reuse assets)
Marx is really the only one who could have gotten the boot, but regardless of what lead to him being chosen honestly I think they probably just didn't think about having a Pokemon boss like they did with SSE.

I seem to remember the other bosses show up occasionally in Classic mode as well, and it would probably be weird to have a pokemon boss that didn't show up in any pokemon character routes while the routes themselves (or at least Incineroar's the gen 7 rep) aren't themed around fighting legendaries.

Even if Marx was replaced it also probably wouldn't have been with Ultra Necrozma, since Marx fills a dark-aligned slot in the campaign if I remember right.

 

[R_N]

I seem to remember the other bosses show up occasionally in Classic mode as well, and it would probably be weird to have a pokemon boss that didn't show up in any pokemon character routes while the routes themselves (or at least Incineroar's the gen 7 rep) aren't themed around fighting legendaries.

Even if Marx was replaced it also probably wouldn't have been with Ultra Necrozma, since Marx fills a dark-aligned slot in the campaign if I remember right.

To be fair, if there was a Pokemon boss they probably would have had at least one route actually based around fighting said boss regardless of who it was.

& yeah Marx was in Dark World alongside Dracula & Ganon (all 3 had their own areas, though marx's was only tangentially related to Milky Way Wishes) while light world had Galleom, Giga Bowser and Rathalos.


If there was a Pokemon Boss honestly I think it'd have been Mewtwo (or Mega Mewtwo Y, rather). His dark aesthetic would fit Dark World, and he's already kind of designed as a final boss twice in both Pikachu's & Pokemon Trainer's route. Both end on Mewtwo at Final Destination, who then immediately transitions to......master hand. It's set up similarly to the instances of facing Ganondorf -> Ganon and Bowser -> Giga Bowser. Back when the game came out that always felt a little odd; if I had a conspiracy to go with it, it's they thought about it but didn't want a "tiny" boss. & maybe didn't want a third asset-reuse boss.