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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
I’m surprised that Boulder is so much faster than Leaves. Their body types aren’t that different from Terrakion and Virizion, and in the original trio, Virizion is the one that’s characterized as being swift and spry, while Terrakion is more of a burly tank, which is why Virizion has a higher Spee—
… oh, apparently the Swords all have 108 Speed. Never mind, nothing makes sense anyway.
I don't really see a major difference between the groups? They all feel pretty similar except for swapping physical/special stats around, Is it just that the beasts have a wider spread on Speed/power?
Ether is really badly designed where it's an item you don't really care about when you get it, and you don't want to use ever. In most Pokemon games (saying most in case I am wrong lol, big serious) they are a limited item that you can only find, and never buy. But they are also items that you would only really feasibly care to use in the story mode, because it's only really useful if you really need an item heal between Pokemon Center visits.
So why are Ethers so rare and yet also split up into tiers? I don't care when I get one because it's just a healing item that isn't even that useful most of the time, but it's an item I don't want to waste because I can't buy them. An identity crisis where I dislike getting them instead of a cooler item, and I still don't care to use or discard them because of their rarity.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
So why are Ethers so rare and yet also split up into tiers? I don't care when I get one because it's just a healing item that isn't even that useful most of the time, but it's an item I don't want to waste because I can't buy them. An identity crisis where I dislike getting them instead of a cooler item, and I still don't care to use or discard them because of their rarity.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
I became more open to using them as time went on, usually for the E4, but also as time went on it's really impossible to get a grip on why they're so rare.
Any time you can buy them it's always for some other currency. BP, Pokemiles, the other BP.
PP Management only really made sense at the start of the series, where long dungeon crawls through mazes and high encounter rates were common. And since that was firmly the "an RPG, with monsters" type era, treating Ethers like MP restoration items also made some sense even if for the most part with a healthy move selection it was never ever a problem.
But that was waning basically the moment we hit Gen 2 and by Gen 3 they introduced a more easily renewable and available version of Ether in addition to cutting back on dungeon gameplay and generalyl speaking moving forward they got way better about the pacing between out of town & in town for heals and such.
So why not just put them in the stores for money? Especially in SV where you can buy damn near everything under the sun and hell Ethers are super common to find around the world...and unlike stuff like berries or feathers they're man-made and make total sense to put in the Chansey shops!
Any time you can buy them it's always for some other currency. BP, Pokemiles, the other BP.
PP Management only really made sense at the start of the series, where long dungeon crawls through mazes and high encounter rates were common. And since that was firmly the "an RPG, with monsters" type era, treating Ethers like MP restoration items also made some sense even if for the most part with a healthy move selection it was never ever a problem.
But that was waning basically the moment we hit Gen 2 and by Gen 3 they introduced a more easily renewable and available version of Ether in addition to cutting back on dungeon gameplay and generalyl speaking moving forward they got way better about the pacing between out of town & in town for heals and such.
So why not just put them in the stores for money? Especially in SV where you can buy damn near everything under the sun and hell Ethers are super common to find around the world...and unlike stuff like berries or feathers they're man-made and make total sense to put in the Chansey shops!
ethers are only really useful in the elite 4, but also idk why you'd care for them when elixirs exist and are better overall. Any repeating method to get an ether you can use to get elixirs, but also just better overall items.
its weird because its just a reskinned leppa berry that a pokemon cant hold. Wouldn't that make them even less useful and thus a pretty easy shop item?
its weird because its just a reskinned leppa berry that a pokemon cant hold. Wouldn't that make them even less useful and thus a pretty easy shop item?
I wanted to add in the original post, but I also think Ethers with their tiers are really annoying as a UI thing. Compared to MP.
In Final Fantasy, if I use an MP restore item, that is something that restores my resource to use any spell. Intuitive, easy, done. Because Pokemon isn't an MP system, I have to go an extra step and pick a move, but also it's just a lot more annoying to know when I really want to use one. It means that players are even less likely to use them when they aren't renewable berries, because it's also more of a divided resource. I am not restoring my MP which means I get to have more spells, I am restoring one move meaning I get to use that one move a few more times.
With Galar and Paldea now autohealing you in between fights when its a gauntlet or after every BB League match, I honestly forgot they existed outside of the scant few times I was desperate enough to use them during E4 runs pre credits. And even then, I am pretty certain the last time I was in a situation that warranted one might have actually been a decade ago in the older games.
I think the greater variance in the stat changes, plus the signature move differences, contribute to making the Paradox Beasts feel a lot more varied in their roles than the Swords.
Two of the Swords qualify as "Fast, just-okay Bulk" Attackers (Base 100 seems to be the stage where I feel GF tends to land mons if they want them to be attackers who take initiative more than tank hits), with Signature moves that amount to "Hit the opponent with a side benefit" (which could be said of all 3 signatures for the trio). The gaps in offensive power also aren't particularly notable despite the shared roles, so it leaves Iron Leaves to dry as the least efficient at something 2 or even all 3 members will be used for.
By comparison, the Beast Trio vary pretty widely in their spreads: Walking Wake is a pretty strong immediate attacker with above-average speed and high power options like Draco Meteor to throw fast; Gouging Fire is slow and only moderately strong attacking stats, but VERY bulky with a Signature move that doesn't even deal damage to emphasize using it more as a mon for its defensive qualities than a lighting fast sweeper; Raging Bolt has very high HP with the lowest speed of the trio to take some hits. On top of this, the Signature moves play into those roles: Walking Wake gets a very powerful Water Nuke under sun (a combination that is hard to prep well for), and Raging Bolt's Signature move lets you circumvent its low speed if you can read your opponent's moves well while using its bulk to compensate bad/necessary hits.
i agree that ethers really should be purchaseable, even if as expensive as a revive or even a max potion. in earlier gens, you do run out of PP on key moves sometimes and you just don't want to use an ether because WHAT IF YOU NEED IT LATER??? you most probably won't, but still, E4 is the only time i always use them with no remorse. and then so many games have had easily renewable leppa berries before, allowing you to use them more whimsically, and they all turned out fine.
also, ethers, elixirs and leppa berries should restore 5 PP. restoring 10 PP makes the max ether and elixir feel particularly redundant because those two start showing up when most of your moves won't have much more than 10 PP anyway. (unless the max ether and elixir got itemdexited, and no tears would be shed over them)
also, i know that might be unpopular, but i am not much of a fan of healing opportunities without items being as common as they are in the switch games. gen 5 had the perfect balance with those doctors and nurses in the middle of dungeons.
also, ethers, elixirs and leppa berries should restore 5 PP. restoring 10 PP makes the max ether and elixir feel particularly redundant because those two start showing up when most of your moves won't have much more than 10 PP anyway. (unless the max ether and elixir got itemdexited, and no tears would be shed over them)
also, i know that might be unpopular, but i am not much of a fan of healing opportunities without items being as common as they are in the switch games. gen 5 had the perfect balance with those doctors and nurses in the middle of dungeons.
Nah, Muddy Water has always had 85% accuracy. Gotta gamble on it hitting and lowering the targets' accuracy so that your opponents have to gamble on their moves hitting.
I dislike how similar some Paradoxes are statwise to their basis.
I haven’t researched this much but certain Pokemon just fufil the same roles, main one that comes to mind is Iron Hands/Hariyama. Basically the same thing except they have 100 extra base points to work with so they bulked up its defense mainly.
I haven’t researched this much but certain Pokemon just fufil the same roles, main one that comes to mind is Iron Hands/Hariyama. Basically the same thing except they have 100 extra base points to work with so they bulked up its defense mainly.
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
THIS. Iron Boulder is basically a better Terrakion in all ways except its typing because it takes the frail powerhouse build and turns it up 100x by simply adding more Speed (at the cost of some Attack points). Iron Moth would be a better Volcarona, having similar Special Attack and higher Speed, if it kept Quiver Dance access. Hands is just Hariyama+ like you said, and Jugulis somehow manages to have a better stat spread than its regular form (its practically just Hydreigon with +10 Speed) while still managing to be worse off than its regular form competitively. It sucks when you compare them to forms such as Walking Wake which shifts the typically slow, bulky Suicune into a fast offensive powerhouse or Slither Wing which asks the question of "what if Larvesta kept its physically leaning side all throughout evolution?" which is SO cool compared to "I'm going to use my extra BST to try and be better than my original form".
Because the regular Swords are very similar to each other and the regular Beasts are not. The Swords all have the same six stat numbers; Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense just get swapped around between them.
I mean Iron Hands' stats are basically what I'd expect out of a Hariyama evolution, same for Great Tusk actually.
The beasts also all have the same six stat numbers. And even if they didn't, so what? Iron Crown turned out completely as its own thing.
Well since I was curious myself...
Great Tusk: Basically Donphan 2. Fitting, considering its design could easily pass for an evolution. But this is very unrealistic, because it got a slight speed buff.
Scream Tail: Retains the high HP but Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff are....technically....more built for attacking and soaking hits through HP. Instead Scream Tail is a fast defensive Pokemon
Brute Bonnet: Yeah kind of just been an evolution. They mostly shifted it to physical attacker, whereas Amoonguss was a technically mixed, but the defensive profile was the main thing and that's still present.
Flutter Mane: For all intents and purposes, this is just Mismagius 2
Slither Wing: Physical attacking, slower Volcarona
Sandy Shocks: Magneton/Magnezone are meant to be special attackers that take some hits, Sandy Shocks goes in to speed special attacking (in fact, its special attack is actually a little lower than Magneton)
Roaring Moon: What if Salamence was marginally bulkier and also purely a physical attacker and also extremely fast. I guess to be fair, og Salamence was something that could go mixed or special so this is more picking a role and sticking to it
Walking Wake: Iconc bulky Pokemon -> Speedy special attacker
Gouging Fire: Physical attacker with some decent bulk -> Explicitly bulky physical attacker
Raging Bolt: Fast special attacker -> Slower, strong special attacker with tweaked bulk (that HP stat!)
Iron Treads: This one is interesting statistically because it's still mostly Donphan 2 but they burned off some attack points to waste into the special stats and mostly made it faster to give it a different niche.
Iron Bundle: Delibird was so bad and had so little to work with that by definition anything Iron Bundle does is wildly different than Delibird could hope to dream
Iron Hands: Hariyama 2
Iron Jugulis: Gun to my head I thought they made this a physical attacker. It's really wild how aside from the speed buff it's just worse Hydreigon. I know that the pseudo paradoxes actually have less stat points to work with but I figured they just tweaked them differently...
Iron Thorns: Tyranitar but what if it didn't have a special half of its stats
Iron Moth: What if Volcarona but a little more but it didnt have Quiver Dance
Iron Valiant: This one's cute since its both Gardevoir & Gallade, so it goes full mixed attacker and grabs speed.
Iron Leaves: Specially bulky one -> Physically attacking one
Iron Boulder: Terrakion but its faster and ever so slightly weaker
Iron Crown: The Defensive bulky one -> Special attacking one
I guess from a design space they purposely wanted a mix of: Some played into new niches, others were basically "what if this was an actual evolution" and others are just the same but rely on their new typing/tweaked moves to make them stand out.
They are all stone evolutions now, so I guess that was the point. Meanwhile it wouldn't make as much sense with the futuristic ones, trough their exact nature is still kind of ambiguous.
I'm more accepting of the "evolution/slightly better version" Paradoxes in cases like Donphan, where the original Pokemon has a clear and obvious point to its build but was statted poorly or just too short on numbers to make it work. Working off R_N 's list for what is a "similar" vs different builds
- Great Tusk and Iron Treads work for me because Donphan has a clear point being a tanky Physical attacking mon, so Great Tusk gives bigger, more useable numbers to the same distribution, while Iron Treads tries to balance things a bit more with the speed increase while still fundamentally being a mon that can take a hit with the defensive typing. Pass x2
- Brute Bonnet I'm not a fan of. The increased Attack does give it some punching power, but the speed is too low to make use of it given the typing undercuts its admittedly impressive bulk increase (fear of Spore). It's the kind of "upgrade" that either didn't get what the original's shortcomings/strengths were or didn't want to commit enough to changing up its style. Lame
- Flutter Mane. This one's kind of funny to me.
- Statwise it's obviously just a more min-maxed Misdreavus/Mismagius, and just done as such it'd probably be a decent if unremarkable mon.
- Then they gave it Fairy typing to make possibly the best combination that statline could ask for on offense AND defense. We all know what this one does, but it's to the point I almost think in another world it would have been more busted if they diverged from Mismagius's "three-and-three" stat numbers and gave it more HP or Defense instead of SpA or SpD.
- Flavorwise I'm always conflicted on Flutter Mane because everything they gave it feels like it'd make sense as an extension of the line (Mismagius and Misdreavus messing with people by screaming is very Fair-Folk), yet all of it together makes such an optimized mon that I think they happened by accident there as much as it did with the gameplay performance.
- Pass?
- Roaring Moon: This one's also funny: Flutter Mane I thought of as a Mega Mismagius, and RM is clearly made to evoke Mega Salamence in the same manner. Because Pseudos have a bit more than Paradoxes for BST, it achieves this by essentially min-maxing regular Salamence's build to better perform its most popular role, compared to Mega Mence's 700 BST giving it free reign to do everything and then some as it felt like. This one gets a pass because it funnily feels like an evolution of Salamence despite resembling its Mega Evolution (the former probably needing more restraint/budgeted building than the latter) Pass
- Iron Bundle is ostensibly an upgrade of Delibird's sort-of Stat line in that it's mainly really fast and really SpA focused, the two highest stats even in imitation Santa's joke BST. I could see something like this being Delibird if it got a Dudunsparce "lethal joke" or Archaludon sort of "fix it up" evolution, and the former is clearly what it succeeded at given its performance in several competitive formats. Big Pass
- Iron Hands I also think is kind of interesting. Most of the stat gains over Hariyama go into slight increases on their shared specialties (HP/ATK/DEF), but their actual kits affect a lot about how (well) they can leverage those traits.
- Hands has a second STAB via Electric but in exchange gains a Ground Weakness that significantly counterbalances his Physical Bulk increase over Hariyama
- Hariyama's ability access gives it some traits Hands would kill for: Guts lets it sort of ignore status effects even if not running an Orb to inflict it on itself, while Thick Fat gives it two pseudo-resistances that are for often-Special types, the side their statline struggles with
- In essence, while Iron Hands is a more optimized stat spread, Hariyama has some unique traits that theoretically allow it to fill roles on a team that Hands cannot, which leaves it more room for consideration than most "you but better" Paradoxes left their counterparts.
- Really good Pass
- Iron Thorns I don't care for. It is the most blatant case of the above as 3 stats are literally identical to Tyranitar, and the ones they moved around matter very little since it lacks the Sand that made Ttar's SpD work for it in a notable capacity. This wouldn't bore me as much if it had moves to play with that Ttar didn't but lol Physical Electric options. This is a case where a full shift might have been neat since Special Rock has Power Gem and Tyranitar's Special movepool was always cool but not something it had the stats to use for more than a Lure. Mega Lame
- Iron Jugulis actually does rearrange all of Hydreigon's stats in pretty small but noteworthy ways. The most significant is it does away with Hydreigon's 105 ATK stat for 86 and 10 of those points are re-allocated to Speed for a more useable 108 Spe. Most of the other stat drops seem to be minor chip downs to fit within the 30-point drop while still letting them increase a stat useably. The thing that ultimately lets Jugulis down more than stat changes (or lack thereof) is its movepool. Dark/Flying is a really good typing for offense and defense vs Dark/Dragon (even with Levitate for Rock/Spikes stuff), but its a typing that has way better Physical move options than Special (even without comp stuff, Hurricane's inaccuracy is annoying vs Draco's 140 BP and 90 Accuracy, and they took its boosting options). This one I don't care for at the end of it because the stat tweaks did have some effort but they actively excluded things Hydreigon needed to work with that distribution. Lame
- Iron Moth. This one disappoints because it has both the creative duality GT/IT showed for a dual-Paradox approach, and its counterpart is the much more creatively designed (regardless of viability) Slither Wing. Statwise it's Volcarona (one of the smallest BST jumps so without rearranging there's not much variety), but given a slightly better STAB than Bug and very little Snowballing potential. This does result in Iron Moth seeing different playstyles than Volcarona with Booster Speed and Fiery Dance leans, but it feels telling that the type/stat lines still leave it ultimately outclassed in any meta where it and Volcarona are both options. Lame (Also no QD unless Slither Wing gets Victory Dance too).
- Iron Boulder (only one of the trio that's very similar). This one feels like a Letdown because on paper it fixes a lot about Terrakion but, again, other aspects fall short to kneecap its potential (albeit it's at least better than its counterpart compared to most of the above "Lame" judgements). The Signature move even addresses one of the issues its build would run into by giving it a good Physical STAB Rock move without Accuracy trouble (since less-than-tanky Sweepers suffer a lot more from an unlucky miss), but the STAB combo hurts it too much. Rock/Psychic don't compliment each other very well offensively or defensively compared to Rock/Fighting on Terrakion, which drags it down to the point of demanding Tera to hit hard with another option. This thing legitimately might have fared better as a Rock/Ground type for EdgeQuake and an immunity even with the infamous 4x weaknesses. Light Lame
So this might be the pettiest thing I've ever gotten annoyed about, because it comes down to a single letter for a game everyone knows regardless of if you shorten it more so there's not even a light time aspect anymore, but the insistence to refer to Legends Arceus as PLA really gets to me
We don't bring in "Pokemon" part of the titles for anything else. Even colosseum people usually just type it out or shorten to Colo.
And some what interestingly now that Z-A is a thing, thus making the Legends moniker a distinct separate label, it seems like if the official channels abbreviate it down they go with "AR"
We don't bring in "Pokemon" part of the titles for anything else. Even colosseum people usually just type it out or shorten to Colo.
And some what interestingly now that Z-A is a thing, thus making the Legends moniker a distinct separate label, it seems like if the official channels abbreviate it down they go with "AR"
I guess part of that is because "LA" is an abbreviation that some people might do a double take at because it has a very common non-Pokemon usage that still could come up in a Pokemon context or at least the mindset of the very Euro-American-centric English-speaking Playerbase (on this forum or a lot of Internet circles)?
wait i had never put together that the three pre-evo paradoxes are stone evolutions... it all makes sense now
i don't like how so many of them are just... strong sweepers with little other utility even for the ostensibly more cared for doubles environment. it feels like they put 90% of their move/stat inspiration into scream tail and slither wing
i don't like how so many of them are just... strong sweepers with little other utility even for the ostensibly more cared for doubles environment. it feels like they put 90% of their move/stat inspiration into scream tail and slither wing
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Counterwise, it's for this exact reason that I write it as L:A not LA
Wait, Scream Tail is inspired? It reads like every other bulky Fairy with the occasional sound move thrown in.
It does make some sense for Paradox mons to be pulled towards short-term value since the conditions that activate their Abilities are temporary (and Booster Energy is single-use). I feel Hands and Treads still manage to be reasonably focused on bulk and support respectively, Tusk probably could have made it as well if it was less loaded up with glass cannon moves like Headlong Rush and Head Smash.